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Foundry Sunset, April 11th, 2019

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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    Yeah, you know, I was planning to buy the T6 Vesta pack at the next ship sale. Now, though? I think I'll save my money.
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Counter example: Halo's Forge (it's one of the most prominent examples of UGC in modern gaming, actively supported by the studio over more than a decade now with live development all the way). :|
    The Forge has been included in flavor of the month multiplayer FPSs, each of which died out the moment the next flavor of the month multiplayer FPS came out. Halo 3 isn't still going strong as a notable multiplyer FPS due to the existence of the Forge, and the Halo series in general has been in a steep decline in popularity and notoriety since Halo 3 came out. Not to mention the Forge system isn't on the same scale as something like an actual mission makers like The Foundry was.

    Sufficient context to resolve this discussion tangent. I don't think you understand what the forge is or how it has been implemented through the Halo series. See. referring strictly to Halo 3. If you don't have sufficient insight into a given topic it's best not to comment on it since it overreaches your rhetorical support. Ie. again minimizing UGC and this example of how it can continue to be supported well (see. Forge in Halo 5 and the MCC, it's a major engine of community creations which are frequently highlighted in blogs and in-game) by a major studio without that game being wholly dedicated to UGC. The Forge is a wonderful counter example (for what's been made by the Halo community) to that point which wholly nullifies it as any kind of rule. The forge was pretty well integrated into the game from Halo 3 on and despite continuous updates and major engine changes (ie. huge technical problems for which the original forge was probably not designed around) it was never so divorced from the underpinnings of the main game that it experienced the rampancy that ultimately resulted in the Foundry sunset (given that the technical issues surrounding the Foundry aren't specific to UGC, again, but a product of how the Foundry was originally implemented under the constraints Cryptic faced at the time.)

    You overgeneralized per UGC in gaming and made a statement which misrepresents the prospect of UGC done well in future Cryptic titles, should they ever want to approach something spiritually similar or wholly analogous to the Foundry at some uncertain date in the future on some game or another. Technical integration is what helps UGC (and other big systems with constructive impacts) thrive, not the hyperbole of sole focus. That's simply pushing for segregation, ie. setting the bar for discussion to "well, you can have it but just somewhere else." No, we could have had it in this community; just under some very different technical circumstances (major point of the original Ten Forward interview, BTW.)


    So glad to see that so many people's "final" words were in fact not. :mrgreen:

    And what exactly is the intention here? IMO it's a tad ambiguous and unfortunately so. If it's genuine joy at seeing people remain, great. Tardigrade hugs all round. But it could also be read as a senior community member taking satisfaction over a complex emotional process where the initial pain and shock of the sunset announcement eventually reconciles with other emotional attachments (ex. friends, community, a broader game that one loves) to arrive at some point other than complete detachment despite initial statements (though not necessarily where one was before.) Personally, I'd just leave them be. It's worth noting that simply remaining isn't a sign for a status quo re-asserting itself (it's a binary variable delineating an emotional gradient) and that comment like this (plausibly interpreted as "calling out reactions from deep pain as bluster") can push people further away from a feeling of community (in, at the very least, shining a spotlight on the process of reconciliation which is often a very personal thing.)

    Folks can still be pissed, hurt, dismayed, discouraged, demoralized, and/or a dozen other things besides while commenting on a topic. The game, as it is now, may also not have the inbuilt mechanisms necessary to correct for those personal downswings over the long term (the Foundry is special and Cryptic has not yet adjusted for its loss through other outlets for community creativity and interaction. [it's still very early]) Ergo, while one may be pleased to see people remain the circumstances by which they do so may be significantly changed (see. transitioning between stable states.) That will be a long term issue may folks will be dealing with (on top of the day to day issues of the game's evolution and further studio transitions) and careful consideration is required to navigate that in the most positive way possible.

    This was a big hit for many in the community.
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,240 Community Moderator
    So glad to see that so many people's "final" words were in fact not. :mrgreen:

    And what exactly is the intention here? IMO it's a tad ambiguous and unfortunately so. If it's genuine joy at seeing people remain, great. Tardigrade hugs all round. But it could also be read as a senior community member taking satisfaction over a complex emotional process where the initial pain and shock of the sunset announcement eventually reconciles with other emotional attachments (ex. friends, community, a broader game that one loves) to arrive at some point other than complete detachment despite initial statements (though not necessarily where one was before.) Personally, I'd just leave them be. It's worth noting that simply remaining isn't a sign for a status quo re-asserting itself (it's a binary variable delineating an emotional gradient) and that comment like this (plausibly interpreted as "calling out reactions from deep pain as bluster") can push people further away from a feeling of community (in, at the very least, shining a spotlight on the process of reconciliation which is often a very personal thing.)

    Folks can still be pissed, hurt, dismayed, discouraged, demoralized, and/or a dozen other things besides while commenting on a topic. The game, as it is now, may also not have the inbuilt mechanisms necessary to correct for those personal downswings over the long term (the Foundry is special and Cryptic has not yet adjusted for its loss through other outlets for community creativity and interaction. [it's still very early]) Ergo, while one may be pleased to see people remain the circumstances by which they do so may be significantly changed (see. transitioning between stable states.) That will be a long term issue may folks will be dealing with (on top of the day to day issues of the game's evolution and further studio transitions) and careful consideration is required to navigate that in the most positive way possible.

    This was a big hit for many in the community.


    Actually, it is sincere, if said a bit tongue-in-cheek. I've always found the outcry of, "I'm done, I'm not talking about this anymore, this is my final word," to be a bit melodramatic. I am glad to see that there are those that haven't given up completely. :smile:
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  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    So glad to see that so many people's "final" words were in fact not. :mrgreen:

    Perhaps like myself, they waiting for the first day the Foundry isn't there upon logging in. That's the case with myself. I want my last logon date to match.

    However plans may change, I'm starting to really look forward to leaving STO and the pure boredom of this last TFO may push me over the edge quicker.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    thanatos9t wrote: »
    No, not even close. I wish I could remember which episode it was, but in one of the Foundry Roundtable dev interviews we got to ask about that. Genesis is a dev tool, and not part of the game, at ALL. For example, and because I love sharing these old pics
    I was replying to the topic of procedural content rather than the Foundry itself.

    Space missions similar to the old removed exploration missions could still be implemented by Cryptic (not by users.)

    Using mechanics that are currently being used in certain TFO missions, for example enter a system, visuals are picked from a series of nebula types (like Days of Doom), scan x anomalies then face enemies from a random set of enemies (like Battle of Procyon v or Days of Doom).

    I am not sure apart from using the Genesis tool, how those missions are created/implemented.
    Object class function calls. Example: You define a set of purple clouds, a set of blue clouds, red/green/yellow/white, etc.... When you build a map you can place a specific cloud, OR you can call a function to place a random cloud. This is where the item sets you defined come into play. The game needs to know what are valid options to place when you tell it to place a purple cloud.

    None of this has anything to do with the Genesis tool :p
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  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    They shutdown Neverwinter Foundry today with the patch disabling the ability to accept quests. Just hours after patch they killed the editor. What happened to April 11th? If you guys are planning a Foundry farewell party, do it quick, as they have killed any chance of us having one on Neverwinter. Ian Darksword wanted to give the Foundry a send off, I have no idea what can be done now.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    They shutdown Neverwinter Foundry today with the patch disabling the ability to accept quests. Just hours after patch they killed the editor. What happened to April 11th? If you guys are planning a Foundry farewell party, do it quick, as they have killed any chance of us having one on Neverwinter. Ian Darksword wanted to give the Foundry a send off, I have no idea what can be done now.
    What? I played a Foundry mission in Neverwinter an hour or two ago.
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  • aspartan1aspartan1 Member Posts: 1,054 Arc User
    And furthermore, it is immature of us to make it a point to say that we're going to some other game because we don't like a decision that was made here, and then try to promote that game as if to rub salt in an open wound.

    That wasn't my intention. There can't be many people who have not heard of ESO, not gamers at least, it hardly needs advertising, I bet their coffee budget is bigger than Cryptic's entire turnover. It was just to tell folks where some of us were going to spend our time when not grinding STO, as that's all it is now, a continual grind. It certainly won't worry Zenimax if they are not mentioned on these pages and it won't make any difference to STO either. ESO is not a natural competitor for STO, EVE could be seen that way, perhaps No Man's Sky or Elite Dangerous, but even so, if folks are deciding to go spend some time in one of those games, the only thing it damages by not being allowed to spread the word is the community. (Flaming/Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)

    No doubt. I concur. In fact I reactivated my subscription which I let laps to focus on STO. I also spent $400 in total on the new x-pack and crowns to get squared away on everything I missed not playing it a couple years. That money was originally allocated for STO which I was going to spend in April. Now I'm just waiting to see what happens next...
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    They shutdown Neverwinter Foundry today with the patch disabling the ability to accept quests. Just hours after patch they killed the editor. What happened to April 11th? If you guys are planning a Foundry farewell party, do it quick, as they have killed any chance of us having one on Neverwinter. Ian Darksword wanted to give the Foundry a send off, I have no idea what can be done now.
    What? I played a Foundry mission in Neverwinter an hour or two ago.

    Can you clear up something here? We are talking about this on the Facebook page and one guy is stating the following?

    "Siri Rellim: Have you actually been on the game? The Foundry has been disabled for a while in game.

    Siri Rellim Matt Johnson if you actually played NW, then you would know that for months if you tried to use the Foundry, it would say that it was unavailable. When you log in the button was grayed out and hovering your cursor over the button would result in the currently not available message. When they announced they were closing it down permanently people who actually play NW were not shocked in the least because it's already been unavailable. At least for NW PC."


    How can he say this if you were playing a few hours ago?

    Yeah I can confirm that Mark was able to play and search for NW Foundry missions and that the editor was very recently available for successful publishing. We and some other folks were going over it last night (after the last patch.)

    Also checked their twitter feeds, Julia hasn't posted anything about it and she's been fighting in the same corner Kael has for the Foundry. Those who can't access the NW foundry should reach out to her about it and do some additional user-side troubleshooting (ex. relog, restart, force verify.) Could be that something is up but exactly what requires more info
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,101 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    (Flaming/Trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    They didn't close it early anywhere...
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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  • stoutesstoutes Member Posts: 4,219 Arc User
    edited March 2019
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
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  • doggydudedoggydude Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited March 2019
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  • foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 1,478 Arc User
    edited March 2019
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  • doggydudedoggydude Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited March 2019
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  • stoutesstoutes Member Posts: 4,219 Arc User
    edited March 2019
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