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DEVS Please balance personal Endeavors - TOO many SPACE vs ground events!

bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 830 Arc User
See attached:


[img][/img]Cu5zEVr.png


Lately there has been a creeping increase of Space personal endeavors vs Ground. I don't hate space nor will stood as low as spewing nonsense as it was done by a former poster who wanted the opposite of this posting a while back.

However, there needs to be a balance from day to day and yes I could use a reroll token but WHY? I love doing endeavors and that is one of the new end game things that keep me coming back to STO.

Personally, I find it so much easier to swap a ground weapon in ONE hand (Plasma/Tetryon/Phaser) and deal X many of damage rather than to go to my ship...swap to another ship build and make sure I get ALL beams/torps/cannons/etc to do the same.

Ground endeavors are also so much quicker to do than their counterparts in space. At the very least Devs should try to balance this fairly close to 50:50.

I'm not ranting and made logical points in the interest to save players time in a daily basis so that they can do more endeavors or move on to other grinds as soon as humanly possible. Isn't it the whole idea for these tasks to be done fairly quick anyways?


Thanks!​​
Wiki editor http://sto.gamepedia.com
Original STO beta tester.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments

  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,899 Arc User
    I'd argue that most space ones are faster to get done, especially the damage based ones where a single grav well can pretty much clear the red ones physical damage demands. Only tricky one is hull healing but once you remember to unequip the shield its a doddle.

    From your example you could have swapped a couple of beams into a ship and camped out the broken king of the hill spot in goncra.

    What they do need to do more is balance out the rewards so the boxes aren't churning out tons of next to useless R&D mats or at the very least tailor the rewards a bit more to the difficulty tiers. So that if they simply must continue to flood the R&D mats into the game they at least start adding salvaged tech or other high end crafting bits into the pool for higher tiers and remove the chance of green boxes or the miniscule credit amount at the same time.
  • drunkflux#5679 drunkflux Member Posts: 215 Arc User
    Sounds like your just getting hit with the random number god. I can relate. Sometimes you get a ridiculously easy endeaver and it goes very fast for you, other times you get endeavers that your not really equipped to deal with on any character. Sometimes you get a stupidly hard endeaver yet finish it and it gives trash or in one case i had a hard one(iconian tfo, kind of annoying) that gave me over a million energy credits in it's reward contents.

    It's just very random. I'd try praying to the random number god every so often if you feel ludicrously unlucky for no apparent reason :D.


    Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,331 Arc User
    See attached:


    [img][/img]Cu5zEVr.png


    Lately there has been a creeping increase of Space personal endeavors vs Ground. I don't hate space nor will stood as low as spewing nonsense as it was done by a former poster who wanted the opposite of this posting a while back.

    However, there needs to be a balance from day to day and yes I could use a reroll token but WHY? I love doing endeavors and that is one of the new end game things that keep me coming back to STO.

    Personally, I find it so much easier to swap a ground weapon in ONE hand (Plasma/Tetryon/Phaser) and deal X many of damage rather than to go to my ship...swap to another ship build and make sure I get ALL beams/torps/cannons/etc to do the same.

    Ground endeavors are also so much quicker to do than their counterparts in space. At the very least Devs should try to balance this fairly close to 50:50.

    I'm not ranting and made logical points in the interest to save players time in a daily basis so that they can do more endeavors or move on to other grinds as soon as humanly possible. Isn't it the whole idea for these tasks to be done fairly quick anyways?


    Thanks!​​

    I get waaaaay more ground than space. The system is RANDOM. It does not need balancing.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Random task is random.
  • slifox#0768 slifox Member Posts: 379 Arc User
    There should be an either or option for each one. At some point, you’ll max space or ground first.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    LMAO, there was just recently a thread made by a guy complaining that there are TOO MANY ground endeavors. So which crybaby complaint is the accurate one I ask?
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,196 Arc User
    Every perk I got to choose from today were all ground, not even one space.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,501 Arc User
    It's optional, it's not needed, and it's random.

    Just repeat to yourself "It's just a STO,
    I should really just relax"
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    So one time out of a thousand.. you get 3 space. Most of the time it's all ground, but the ONE time you get space you complain?

    Unreal.. threads like this make me glad the development team ignores feedback. The personal endeavors are weighted WAY to heavily toward ground, have been from day one.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    LMAO, there was just recently a thread made by a guy complaining that there are TOO MANY ground endeavors. So which crybaby complaint is the accurate one I ask?

    Both, no one needs to speak for population statistics (and in fact it's better that they don't try to.) For however Cryptic balances this, they can only target an average or at the very best the range of a peak distribution. As you move away from that in examining the overall distribution of the population, the more the endeavor system cumulatively promotes a playstyle (ie. a balance of ground/space) which isn't to the player's individual liking.

    Ergo the system has a core limitation, as inferred from this and similar feedback. The fix isn't to simply add more ground or add more space. It's to not rely on it as a key motivator for player behavior (because its optimal appeal is necessarily restricted by demographics.) Make sure other mechanisms are in development to appeal to and retain players (ex. compelling story arcs, characters, innovative missions per STO's evolution, ect) because a population-balanced system is inevitably going to run into problems if it's proscribing activities across the full breadth of that population (it can't be tailored to suit preferences, unlike self-motivated gameplay.) Ie. ordinary kinds of good content, keep endeavors and future skinner box mechanics ancillary.

    Kinda basic but it's the easy take away which might otherwise be obscured by customary forum banter.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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  • chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
    It seems pretty random for me. Personally I prefer ground as it often gives me an excuse to murder things with my BOFFs, and that's always fun. But on the other hand I find a lot of the space ones to be very quick.

    Either way, I seem to get a random mix of both.

    If I don't like a certain Endeavor task, I reroll it. And if I'm out of rerolls and still don't want to do it, I do the unimaginable. Maybe I shouldn't even say it but... I dunno, I'll risk it for the greater good.

    I don't do that single task, and wait until the next day to see what pops up.

    OH GODS THE HORROR
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    I don't find it leaning towards one or the other honestly. Its totally random. Honestly seeing all space is relatively easy. Especially if you can do multiple ones in a single go. For example if you have to run some Borg STFs, deal X amount of Y damage type (space), and Kill Z Borg ships.

    Can practically get that all done in one go depending on the difficulty level of the STF run Endeavor.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I don't find it leaning towards one or the other honestly. Its totally random. Honestly seeing all space is relatively easy. Especially if you can do multiple ones in a single go. For example if you have to run some Borg STFs, deal X amount of Y damage type (space), and Kill Z Borg ships.

    Can practically get that all done in one go depending on the difficulty level of the STF run Endeavor.

    Yeah I got that earlier in the week. Had to blast some Undine and take out destructible torps. I went to Dyson space battle for a bit and ran right through that.

    Then the third one was destroy an ungodly number of dreadnoughts (which they since decreased in today's patch), and I just couldn't be bothered to do that so I called it a day.
  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,985 Arc User
    laughinxan wrote: »
    Sounds like your just getting hit with the random number god. I can relate. Sometimes you get a ridiculously easy endeaver and it goes very fast for you, other times you get endeavers that your not really equipped to deal with on any character. Sometimes you get a stupidly hard endeaver yet finish it and it gives trash or in one case i had a hard one(iconian tfo, kind of annoying) that gave me over a million energy credits in it's reward contents.

    It's just very random. I'd try praying to the random number god every so often if you feel ludicrously unlucky for no apparent reason :D.

    RNGesus giveth and RNGesus taketh away
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator

      RNGesus giveth and RNGesus taketh away

      giphy.gif
      db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
      I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
      The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    • chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
      edited March 2019
      laughinxan wrote: »
      Sounds like your just getting hit with the random number god. I can relate. Sometimes you get a ridiculously easy endeaver and it goes very fast for you, other times you get endeavers that your not really equipped to deal with on any character. Sometimes you get a stupidly hard endeaver yet finish it and it gives trash or in one case i had a hard one(iconian tfo, kind of annoying) that gave me over a million energy credits in it's reward contents.

      It's just very random. I'd try praying to the random number god every so often if you feel ludicrously unlucky for no apparent reason :D.

      RNGesus giveth and RNGesus taketh away

      Our RNGesus, who art in the code,
      Programmed be thy name.

      Thy session come,
      Thy will be done,
      On ground, as it is in space.

      Give us this day our daily Endavour,
      And forgive our mis-clicks,
      As we forgive those who mis-click against us.

      And lead us not into un-installation,
      but deliver us from DDOS attacks.

      For thine is the server,
      The ZEN and the XP,
      Forever and ever.

      Amen.
    • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,331 Arc User
      So one time out of a thousand.. you get 3 space. Most of the time it's all ground, but the ONE time you get space you complain?

      Unreal.. threads like this make me glad the development team ignores feedback. The personal endeavors are weighted WAY to heavily toward ground, have been from day one.

      Indeed. Even I'm head-desking more these days at the sheer amount of unwarranted 'fix this/rebalance this' threads that aren't accompanied by valid data, never mind the fact they are being posted in the General Discussion and not the Support Forum.
      "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
    • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
      I've gotten three space and three ground, generally not a problem. In most cases I prefer ground but space is OK. That is unless it is something like I had tonight, Medium do two Lukari TFOs, Hard do three Iconian TFOs. I rerolled them and got Kill Vaadwaur for Hard. Easy enough there.

      The Universal was to do a Random TFO. That was my first Random. Got Starbase 1.
      'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
      Judge Dan Haywood
      'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
      l don't know.
      l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
      That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
      Lt. Philip J. Minns
    • chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
      Yeah I wasn't a fan of this universal, the random TFO one. There are a lot of TFOs I like, but also quite a few I just don't do anymore because I don't enjoy them.

      I'll take a pass on this universal. Did all my personals yesterday though, which ended up being 2 space and 1 ground. Day before that was the other way around - 2 ground and 1 space. Today happens to be the same as that last mix.
    • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
      I've seen this as all ground. I generally get a mix of ground and space endeavors. I don't mind if they're all space or ground. That saves time as I just need to do this and this. No need to run off somewhere to find a ground and then a space to do.
      Mm5NeXy.gif
    • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 903 Arc User
      This system have not been active nearly long enough for any individual player to be able to judge if there is a system bias one way or the other.

      Also, people really need to read up on what "observation bias" is.
      Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
    • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
      Not only that... to truly determine if there is a bias, you would need more than just a single point of data. You'd need a large group of people taking notes over a designated length of time.
      db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
      I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
      The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
      rattler2 wrote: »
      Not only that... to truly determine if there is a bias, you would need more than just a single point of data. You'd need a large group of people taking notes over a designated length of time.

      Agreed, my personal experience is the opposite of the OP. I get mostly ground endeavors.

      I have had 3 space at once, I have had 3 ground at once.. but on average, I usually have 2 ground and 1 space.
      Insert witty signature line here.
    • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
      coldnapalm wrote: »
      Really? Because i get way too many ground ones. Wanna switch?
      This idea appeals to me. I think it would be more fun to trade endeavors rather than reroll them.
    • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
      A bit of (simplified) maths:

      If we assume that the odds of getting a personal endeavour ground/space are 50-50, the odds of getting "three unwanted" on a given day are 1 in 8. That's almost once in a given week. The odds of getting a whole week of that are about 1 in 2 million.

      But this pertains to one player only. If we have enough players playing this game for a longer time, the probability of somebody getting a whole week of just what they don't want. Even if we pre-define the week it'll happen a couple of times, if we just let it start when it starts, add a few other "unwanted" ones to the list (e. g. "I don't like ground, but I also don't like space BZ" or similar), the number of people able to truthfully complain about only getting things they don't like rises sharply.

      And since usually people only mention strange things in the forums, (there won't be many threads starting with "As for the endeavour system, nothing extraordinary happened to me, a mix of all kinds of stuff over the days" and raise a discussion) this'll be a recurring topic I guess. But it really is what is to be expected from randomness.
      My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
    • shinnok918shinnok918 Member Posts: 312 Arc User
      Id LOVE to see rebalancing: all space no ground
    • chipg7chipg7 Member Posts: 1,577 Arc User
      shinnok918 wrote: »
      Id LOVE to see rebalancing: all space no ground

      Maybe having the option to select a preference for either ground or space, that'd be nice. I was doing random TFOs with a team last night, and I was the only one hoping for ground - everyone else was space spec'd only.

      It's hard to make a balanced ground/space build for your captain and team, so it would definitely be nice if that preference could be selected. That way one loses out.
    This discussion has been closed.