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Science Build Help.

razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,180 Arc User
I am planning on building a new science character. I have ones from years ago when I used to play (after level cap increase from 50-60, but before increase from 60-65). The builds I have on them are focused on weapon builds that are now useless since the change to FAW. And I have fleet gear on them, so changing their stuff up will just be a waste of some if not all of their gear.

So, I want to focus my new character on a TRUE science build. I want to focus heavily in the science abilities. However, I don't want to be suffering in regards to weapon damage also. Basically, I want to hold my own in TFOs.

I have been looking at science builds that the writers have made claims about how good/OP they are. And some of them I have seen in YouTube videos are really good (when they are not using the Borg STFs to pad their numbers). But here is the catch: I don't have money to spend on the game. My brother got the LTS as a gift for me recently, and that is all there is to spend. So I don't have the T6 ship traits that make some of those builds so powerful according to the ones showing them off. Also, I don't have tons of EC to spend.

This will need to be a build starting from a beginning character, and going all the way up to level 65, with only episode gear till I can get the rep systems leveled up. Traits, skills, and any special abilities that I can't get as episode/mission rewards or from the rep system will need to be left out of the build. If it cost Zen, it's also out.

I was never really the best at science builds in the past. Really didn't need to put points into science skills to use them effectively (though not to their full potential) to some extent in the past. I want to do it differently this time.

I have been studying the skill tree for a while now. I know that I need to give on some areas so that I can increase in others. That is a given. I am just not sure where I should be making cuts on my skill tree. I would prefer to use GW to hold, and other skills to strip shields and energy from ships, then pop them with torps mostly. Still, I know that I will need some energy weapons also. The new Vulcan ship is going to be my main ship while leveling up, since it can level with you from level 10. Though, I am not hard set on needing to only be in a science ship. I am okay with running cruisers or escorts sometimes.

My energy weapons of choice on the front of ships has been cannons. Either DCs, DHCs, or a combination of them. They are good about hitting shields quick, and hard for the torps to hit the hull. But, at levels 50 and up, the shields on NPC ships don't stay down long enough for the torps to get there if I am not running a cannon skill on a Boff. (Cannon Scatter Volley or Rapid Fire). So I was hoping that I could do a science focused build that will address this problem.

Any help that anyone can give on a skill tree, and build that doesn't require expensive things from the exchange, or buying T6 ships would be appreciated. Also, advice on weapons, and Boff skill suggestions is needed also. And if not too much trouble, an explanation of why and/or how that build works. I have read many builds online that the person writing them doesn't really explain what the point is in getting something or setting up something a certain way.

Thanks in advance,

Razar.
SSO = Starfleet (not so) Special Operations Group

Comments

  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 7,618 Arc User
    So...about science...it's expensive. You want a good science ship, it will cost you. And on top of that, you wanna do a hybrid?!? With no resources to spend?!? No zen, no EC...do you at least have refined dil and a good fleet to get all the fleet goodies? I mean that will help at least for the science console slot items...and for the tact console slots if you are gonna do a hybrid...but that even assumes you have a sci ship that is capable of doing a hybrid. Do you have a sci ship with 5 sci consoles and 3 tact ones? Otherwise you will need to spend zen and that you have said is out. I mean you could feasibly make a advanced ready sci ship on a budget if you consider fleet gear budget...and possibly even a hybrid if you already have the ship...once again if you consider fleet gear budget. Now wanna just do normal stuff...well that is much easier to deal with on a budget.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 6,884 Arc User
    Expensive?


    40-46k science budget build
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 7,618 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    Expensive?


    40-46k science budget build

    Actually, that is a hybrid sci/tac. The science is too low for it to be a pure sci ship...he is doing like half that DPS from his weapons. Also timberwolf is one of the top end players...expect average players to be doing 1/2 or less damage. I would be surprised if they can do above 15k. I some how being on the higher end of the skill curve in this game can take one of his builds and do about half what he does.

    Although I may have to walk back the sci/tac being more expensive. You can use the DPS from weapons to make up for lack of science to boost your DPS high enough for advanced queues.
  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,180 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    So...about science...it's expensive. You want a good science ship, it will cost you. And on top of that, you wanna do a hybrid?!? With no resources to spend?!? No zen, no EC...do you at least have refined dil and a good fleet to get all the fleet goodies? I mean that will help at least for the science console slot items...and for the tact console slots if you are gonna do a hybrid...but that even assumes you have a sci ship that is capable of doing a hybrid. Do you have a sci ship with 5 sci consoles and 3 tact ones? Otherwise you will need to spend zen and that you have said is out. I mean you could feasibly make a advanced ready sci ship on a budget if you consider fleet gear budget...and possibly even a hybrid if you already have the ship...once again if you consider fleet gear budget. Now wanna just do normal stuff...well that is much easier to deal with on a budget.



    The last thing you said was, "Now wanna just do normal stuff...well that is much easier to deal with on a budget." So, are you talking about doing normal difficulty TFOs? Or are you calling episodes normal? Not sure which you mean. If you are talking about the TFOs, then normal is okay with me. I mostly run on normal instead of advance most of the time, because I don't have all MK 13+ weapons and gear on my Engineer. Still, I do play in them a few times.

    Anyway, do you have any experience in doing a character focused heavily on science builds. If so, then will you at least be able to share a really good skill tree build?

    I was hoping to not do this one as a hybrid. I figured that a hybrid would cost a ton of Zen, EC, and possibly even Dil. So I didn't even consider it. But after seeing the potential they have, I can see why you are suggesting one.

    I do have the Nebula Class Advance Research Vessel Retrofit (T5) from a giveaway years ago, and the new Vulcan ship from the anniversary event. 3-Engineering 4-Science 2-Tactical consoles. Not sure if that helps any, but it is 1 Science and 1 Tactical console slot you said would be needed. But do you at least think it can be close to being good?

    Thanks,

    Razar.
    SSO = Starfleet (not so) Special Operations Group
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    edited February 19
    razar2380 wrote: »
    ..

    I have been looking at science builds that the writers have made claims about how good/OP they are. And some of them I have seen in YouTube videos are really good (when they are not using the Borg STFs to pad their numbers). .

    Borg Stfs (ISA and HSE) do not pad players numbers. That is one of a few DPS testing grounds.There are also a few DPS testing grounds that can be found in the Foundry (Even one specifically for exotic builds).

    Since you mention you have the T'Pau. (Freshly unboxed and not even leveled..Scored Nearly a 90k Dps pug run on ISA)
    https://imgur.com/CWMzm2C

    This could be Easily converted.To a lower budget.
    Swap out the Fleet Particle Focusers with Standard [Console - Science - Particle Generator] . But dont forget to pick up the
    [Console - Tactical - Chronometric Capacitor] from the mission “Time and Tide for 5 consoles the boost your ships Exotic damage. Even at Mk 12 very rare...Those 5 consoles and Temporal Spec as Primary should net you 340+ EPG.

    The Bajor Defense Set is a available from the “Scylla and Charybdis. Its Re-Engineerable (all of it). The Deflector can be re-engineered for EPGx4..The 3 piece has a passive debuff when you get close to stuff.(3km)

    Quantum Phase Applications 3 piece Set is available from the “Stormbound” Mission.(3 Price Clicky Scales off Drain..Good on a Single target)..Also th Torpedo under any Spread will significantly drain your targets shields.. (-14k all shields at 100 drainX and gets better with Mk and Rarity.)

    Destabilizing Resonance Beam: AoE/Debuff is available from the Mission: Blood of Ancients. Once unlocked, it can also be crafted in the Officer Training tab of the R&D system...Excellent when used in Combination with GW3 and SSV3

    ==Exchange Purchases (Some are ok for now..others you'll have to save for)==

    The Delphic Tear and Deconstructive Resonance Emitter are on the exchange. Not super cheap but available. Either could be replaced with the Constriction anchor (It unlike the other 2 doesn't have an offensive use just to boost the Exotics damage)

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Subspace_Vortex (Im using rank 3)--AOE Hazard =Very good when combined with Gravity Well 3
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Structural_Integrity_Collapse (Im using Rank 1)
    = Multi Target Debuff--> Also Triggers Deteriorating Secondary Deflectors radiation.

    If you swap these ranks you make find them Cheaper on the exchange..

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Kemocite-Laced_Weaponry..== Weapon Enhancment/Debuff Radiation Damage. (This can be replaced with Attack Pattern Beta)

    Also on this ship:
    Prolonged Engagement 2 piece (These were weekend rewards.)
    Tier 4 Nukara Traits
    Tier 2 Romulan
    Tier 2 Dyson
    Tier 2 Iconian
    Particle Manipulator (Lvl 15 Science RnD reward) Adds 50% Critical hit to Exotics when above 250 EPG and the rest become critical severity on your Exotics (a must have) Does NOT stack (Over rides actually which is not good) with Probability manipulation (25 Points in science Skill tree)

    Particle Emission Torpedo (Exchange)
    Gravometric Torpedo (Tier 2 Dyson)
    (These are good on any EPG sci ship)

    This should make you Pretty well off in TFO's. (DO NOT GW Tzenkethi).

    Some you'll have to work on. But Substitutions can be made on the weapons sets (I recommend it)..Exchange stuff makes like nice.

    Recommend Deteriorating Secondary Deflector [EPG]x2 [SA +Dmg]] The other mods are your call but this should be epic.

    My Current Fav Ship. https://imgur.com/mgm9XEV
    ..All of these consoles work GOOD..and Scale off everything Im using (Drain and EPG)







    Post edited by odinforever20000 on


    Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.


  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,180 Arc User
    razar2380 wrote: »
    ..

    I have been looking at science builds that the writers have made claims about how good/OP they are. And some of them I have seen in YouTube videos are really good (when they are not using the Borg STFs to pad their numbers). .

    Borg Stfs (ISA and HSE) do not pad players numbers. That is one of a few DPS testing grounds.There are also a few DPS testing grounds that can be found in the Foundry (Even one specifically for exotic builds).

    Since you mention you have the T'Pau. (Freshly unboxed and not even leveled..Scored Nearly a 90k Dps pug run on ISA)
    https://imgur.com/CWMzm2C

    This could be Easily converted.To a lower budget.
    Swap out the Fleet Particle Focusers with Standard [Console - Science - Particle Generator] . But dont forget to pick up the
    [Console - Tactical - Chronometric Capacitor] from the mission “Time and Tide for 5 consoles the boost your ships Exotic damage. Even at Mk 12 very rare...Those 5 consoles and Temporal Spec as Primary should net you 340+ EPG.

    The Bajor Defense Set is a available from the “Scylla and Charybdis. Its Re-Engineerable (all of it). The Deflector can be re-engineered for EPGx4..The 3 piece has a passive debuff when you get close to stuff.(3km)

    Quantum Phase Applications 3 piece Set is available from the “Stormbound” Mission.(3 Price Clicky Scales off Drain..Good on a Single target)..Also th Torpedo under any Spread will significantly drain your targets shields.. (-14k all shields at 100 drainX and gets better with Mk and Rarity.)

    Destabilizing Resonance Beam: AoE/Debuff is available from the Mission: Blood of Ancients. Once unlocked, it can also be crafted in the Officer Training tab of the R&D system...Excellent when used in Combination with GW3 and SSV3

    ==Exchange Purchases (Some are ok for now..others you'll have to save for)==

    The Delphic Tear and Deconstructive Resonance Emitter are on the exchange. Not super cheap but available. Either could be replaced with the Constriction anchor (It unlike the other 2 doesn't have an offensive use just to boost the Exotics damage)

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Subspace_Vortex (Im using rank 3)--AOE Hazard =Very good when combined with Gravity Well 3
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Structural_Integrity_Collapse (Im using Rank 1)
    = Multi Target Debuff--> Also Triggers Deteriorating Secondary Deflectors radiation.

    If you swap these ranks you make find them Cheaper on the exchange..

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Kemocite-Laced_Weaponry..== Weapon Enhancment/Debuff Radiation Damage. (This can be replaced with Attack Pattern Beta)

    Also on this ship:
    Prolonged Engagement 2 piece (These were weekend rewards.)
    Tier 4 Nukara Traits
    Tier 2 Romulan
    Tier 2 Dyson
    Tier 2 Iconian
    Particle Manipulator (Lvl 15 Science RnD reward) Adds 50% Critical hit to Exotics when above 250 EPG and the rest become critical severity on your Exotics (a must have) Does NOT stack (Over rides actually which is not good) with Probability manipulation (25 Points in science Skill tree)

    Particle Emission Torpedo (Exchange)
    Gravometric Torpedo (Tier 2 Dyson)
    (These are good on any EPG sci ship)

    This should make you Pretty well off in TFO's. (DO NOT GW Tzenkethi).

    Some you'll have to work on. But Substitutions can be made on the weapons sets (I recommend it)..Exchange stuff makes like nice.

    Recommend Deteriorating Secondary Deflector [EPG]x2 [SA +Dmg]] The other mods are your call but this should be epic.

    My Current Fav Ship. https://imgur.com/mgm9XEV
    ..All of these consoles work GOOD..and Scale off everything Im using (Drain and EPG)








    Thanks for the science build information. That was what I was looking for.

    As for padding numbers, I was not saying that it was done in all of the videos out there. But most of them it is done in, and it is done. Before I took a 4 year break from the game, it was done then also.

    When they run up to the generators, they target them, while the nanite generators are still healing it. This means that when their FAW, CSV, and/or TS skills are on cooldown, they are putting DPS into a generator that is being healed. The damage they do is healed, but it is also counted into their numbers that they are using for DPS.

    Before I left for a while, I took some friends into the Vortex. 1 person handled probes, 3 took care of the other side first, and all I did was sit under the gate (it used to not be able to hit you there), and did nothing but constantly hit the gate. I was able to get thousands of DPS for that match, and all I did was hit that 1 gate, and help with the Scimitar at the end. That was just to show them how hitting something that is constantly being healed will pad numbers.

    Like I said though, not all of the players that do the videos are padding numbers. And they do have really good builds. But pretty much all of them I have seen were using either traits from C-Store ships, Lobi ships, or expensive things from the exchange. The build you have just showed me here is more what I am looking for.

    I do have a question about the skill tree. Do you put points in all of the science skills, or are there some that are not worth really bothering with? Since the changes from the old skill tree, I am not sure which ones really have any good effect. I have been told that the skills that boost shields are pointless at end game, and I can see why they say that. NPCs will drop your shields really quick. If you feel the same, would you suggest putting those points into boosting the Hull HP, and regen?

    Thanks,

    Razar.
    SSO = Starfleet (not so) Special Operations Group
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    razar2380 wrote: »
    razar2380 wrote: »
    ..

    I have been looking at science builds that the writers have made claims about how good/OP they are. And some of them I have seen in YouTube videos are really good (when they are not using the Borg STFs to pad their numbers). .

    Borg Stfs (ISA and HSE) do not pad players numbers. That is one of a few DPS testing grounds.There are also a few DPS testing grounds that can be found in the Foundry (Even one specifically for exotic builds).

    Since you mention you have the T'Pau. (Freshly unboxed and not even leveled..Scored Nearly a 90k Dps pug run on ISA)
    https://imgur.com/CWMzm2C

    This could be Easily converted.To a lower budget.
    Swap out the Fleet Particle Focusers with Standard [Console - Science - Particle Generator] . But dont forget to pick up the
    [Console - Tactical - Chronometric Capacitor] from the mission “Time and Tide for 5 consoles the boost your ships Exotic damage. Even at Mk 12 very rare...Those 5 consoles and Temporal Spec as Primary should net you 340+ EPG.

    The Bajor Defense Set is a available from the “Scylla and Charybdis. Its Re-Engineerable (all of it). The Deflector can be re-engineered for EPGx4..The 3 piece has a passive debuff when you get close to stuff.(3km)

    Quantum Phase Applications 3 piece Set is available from the “Stormbound” Mission.(3 Price Clicky Scales off Drain..Good on a Single target)..Also th Torpedo under any Spread will significantly drain your targets shields.. (-14k all shields at 100 drainX and gets better with Mk and Rarity.)

    Destabilizing Resonance Beam: AoE/Debuff is available from the Mission: Blood of Ancients. Once unlocked, it can also be crafted in the Officer Training tab of the R&D system...Excellent when used in Combination with GW3 and SSV3

    ==Exchange Purchases (Some are ok for now..others you'll have to save for)==

    The Delphic Tear and Deconstructive Resonance Emitter are on the exchange. Not super cheap but available. Either could be replaced with the Constriction anchor (It unlike the other 2 doesn't have an offensive use just to boost the Exotics damage)

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Subspace_Vortex (Im using rank 3)--AOE Hazard =Very good when combined with Gravity Well 3
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Structural_Integrity_Collapse (Im using Rank 1)
    = Multi Target Debuff--> Also Triggers Deteriorating Secondary Deflectors radiation.

    If you swap these ranks you make find them Cheaper on the exchange..

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Kemocite-Laced_Weaponry..== Weapon Enhancment/Debuff Radiation Damage. (This can be replaced with Attack Pattern Beta)

    Also on this ship:
    Prolonged Engagement 2 piece (These were weekend rewards.)
    Tier 4 Nukara Traits
    Tier 2 Romulan
    Tier 2 Dyson
    Tier 2 Iconian
    Particle Manipulator (Lvl 15 Science RnD reward) Adds 50% Critical hit to Exotics when above 250 EPG and the rest become critical severity on your Exotics (a must have) Does NOT stack (Over rides actually which is not good) with Probability manipulation (25 Points in science Skill tree)

    Particle Emission Torpedo (Exchange)
    Gravometric Torpedo (Tier 2 Dyson)
    (These are good on any EPG sci ship)

    This should make you Pretty well off in TFO's. (DO NOT GW Tzenkethi).

    Some you'll have to work on. But Substitutions can be made on the weapons sets (I recommend it)..Exchange stuff makes like nice.

    Recommend Deteriorating Secondary Deflector [EPG]x2 [SA +Dmg]] The other mods are your call but this should be epic.

    My Current Fav Ship. https://imgur.com/mgm9XEV
    ..All of these consoles work GOOD..and Scale off everything Im using (Drain and EPG)








    Thanks for the science build information. That was what I was looking for.

    As for padding numbers, I was not saying that it was done in all of the videos out there. But most of them it is done in, and it is done. Before I took a 4 year break from the game, it was done then also.

    When they run up to the generators, they target them, while the nanite generators are still healing it. This means that when their FAW, CSV, and/or TS skills are on cooldown, they are putting DPS into a generator that is being healed. The damage they do is healed, but it is also counted into their numbers that they are using for DPS.

    Before I left for a while, I took some friends into the Vortex. 1 person handled probes, 3 took care of the other side first, and all I did was sit under the gate (it used to not be able to hit you there), and did nothing but constantly hit the gate. I was able to get thousands of DPS for that match, and all I did was hit that 1 gate, and help with the Scimitar at the end. That was just to show them how hitting something that is constantly being healed will pad numbers.

    Like I said though, not all of the players that do the videos are padding numbers. And they do have really good builds. But pretty much all of them I have seen were using either traits from C-Store ships, Lobi ships, or expensive things from the exchange. The build you have just showed me here is more what I am looking for.

    I do have a question about the skill tree. Do you put points in all of the science skills, or are there some that are not worth really bothering with? Since the changes from the old skill tree, I am not sure which ones really have any good effect. I have been told that the skills that boost shields are pointless at end game, and I can see why they say that. NPCs will drop your shields really quick. If you feel the same, would you suggest putting those points into boosting the Hull HP, and regen?

    Thanks,

    Razar.

    Yea..you cant sit on the under the gate and get a parse thats uploadable from either major parsers.So padding as you mention in your examples doesnt happen any more.

    As for my Skill tree..Im still using my skill tree from season 11.27 points for the science ultimate. Any toon I plan on flying a sci ship has full points in EPG, Control, and DrainX.

    Full points in Drain and Control grant you resistances to either (like reduces the effect by 66% no matter your oppositions Drain/Control numbers *I tested).Keep in mind there are things in the game that ignore these resistances..I.E Borg Tachyon Beam

    I have 2 points in Nearly all the Ensign skill areas: Hull Cap, Hull Restoration, Shield Cap,Shield restoration and Either Projectiles or Energy weapon Training. I find them useful. Theres very little in the skill tree these days thats not of use (there was alot pre season 11 that was useless)...Theres also been alot added to the game to make even the glassiest of Glass cannons tough as a rock..


    Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.


  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,180 Arc User
    @odinforever20000 Thanks for the help. Sorry I didn't get to respond before now, but I was not able to test out this skill tree till recently. That is the main thing I was looking for.

    I was leaving some of the Ensign skills without any points, because I didn't think that the few points would make any difference. I am still a little curious how much of a difference that shield HP increases will do. Just seems to me that at end game, shields drop so fast that it is pointless. But I might be missing something. Do you think that it would be a good idea to leave points out of skills that increase my shield HP, and put more into my hull heal ability? I was thinking that if I did that, then every time my shields were healed, I could get more heals coming in.

    I also have put a few points into both the energy weapons and torps. Just for the forward facing builds I am wanting to try. DHC or DBB on the T'Pau ship, with 2 torps, and turrets and/or omnis on the back. Then I can just start killing shields quicker, and popping the hull with torps. And, if I put more points into subsystem powers, I think I can get by with having my weapons about 75%, and aux power close, if not, to 100%.

    If possible, can I actually take a picture of a skill tree I have experimented with on another science character, and let you tell me what you think about it vs what I want to eventually accomplish?

    Thanks again for your help,

    Razar.
    SSO = Starfleet (not so) Special Operations Group
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    razar2380 wrote: »
    @odinforever20000 Thanks for the help. Sorry I didn't get to respond before now, but I was not able to test out this skill tree till recently. That is the main thing I was looking for.

    I was leaving some of the Ensign skills without any points, because I didn't think that the few points would make any difference. I am still a little curious how much of a difference that shield HP increases will do. Just seems to me that at end game, shields drop so fast that it is pointless. But I might be missing something. Do you think that it would be a good idea to leave points out of skills that increase my shield HP, and put more into my hull heal ability? I was thinking that if I did that, then every time my shields were healed, I could get more heals coming in.

    I also have put a few points into both the energy weapons and torps. Just for the forward facing builds I am wanting to try. DHC or DBB on the T'Pau ship, with 2 torps, and turrets and/or omnis on the back. Then I can just start killing shields quicker, and popping the hull with torps. And, if I put more points into subsystem powers, I think I can get by with having my weapons about 75%, and aux power close, if not, to 100%.

    If possible, can I actually take a picture of a skill tree I have experimented with on another science character, and let you tell me what you think about it vs what I want to eventually accomplish?

    Thanks again for your help,

    Razar.
    I have points in both shield hp and hull hp.

    Ok..So..(and this is my take on science ships) Do not focus on the weapons. The screen shot on my Tpau 90% of the damage came from my science "Exotic Damage" boff abilities. Majority of these are "shield ignoring"

    I strongly discourage (mostly for efficacy) running a "Beam build" on an Science ship as You'll want to put as much power as you can in AUX. Escorts and Cruisers are much better at this as they either have more available weapons and dont worry about aux power only weapon power. Treat the weapon slots as...Places for weapon set pieces to go. You can run up 2 3 different weapon sets on a sci ship have it be very effective.

    If you absolutely must run a DHC set..Start looking at:
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Morphogenic_Armaments
    Polaron has the most (Non-Crit energy boosting) Polaron Consoles in the game. You can put 4 different consoles that will actually boost your polaron damage to similar levels as tactical console polaron phase modulators.
    Polaron also has some fun set pieces in the Delta Ordinance (Isokenetic Cannon) , Gamma (Mines are fun) and Lukari (Beam Weaps that increase regen AND CRF or BO add Technical OVERLOAD *an Electric damage ability*) reps that mesh well with the above set.In addition to another free Polaron set,Chronometric Calculations Set(They have shield pen proc and Nice 4 piece clicky)

    If your concern is enemy shields. Slot the 2 piece Quantum Phase Armaments set (Its free). Then hit torpspread and launch that bugger and watch shield drop. 2 points in DrainX should net you 100 Drain and that should be about -14k all shields. There is no better proc or Weapon in the game for ripping shields.

    Fun part about sci ships is ..well..they are very experimental..On build I have runs everything I have thats Tetryon (Orb Weaver with (2) Krenim Temporal Manipulation[Free], (3) Incontrovertible Defenses[Free], (2) Nukara Munitions[Rep]..

    SO yea..Experiment but you'll find its easier to manage if you go from completing weapon sets over trying to shoe horn a beam build into a sci ship.


    Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.


  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,180 Arc User
    razar2380 wrote: »
    @odinforever20000 Thanks for the help. Sorry I didn't get to respond before now, but I was not able to test out this skill tree till recently. That is the main thing I was looking for.

    I was leaving some of the Ensign skills without any points, because I didn't think that the few points would make any difference. I am still a little curious how much of a difference that shield HP increases will do. Just seems to me that at end game, shields drop so fast that it is pointless. But I might be missing something. Do you think that it would be a good idea to leave points out of skills that increase my shield HP, and put more into my hull heal ability? I was thinking that if I did that, then every time my shields were healed, I could get more heals coming in.

    I also have put a few points into both the energy weapons and torps. Just for the forward facing builds I am wanting to try. DHC or DBB on the T'Pau ship, with 2 torps, and turrets and/or omnis on the back. Then I can just start killing shields quicker, and popping the hull with torps. And, if I put more points into subsystem powers, I think I can get by with having my weapons about 75%, and aux power close, if not, to 100%.

    If possible, can I actually take a picture of a skill tree I have experimented with on another science character, and let you tell me what you think about it vs what I want to eventually accomplish?

    Thanks again for your help,

    Razar.
    I have points in both shield hp and hull hp.

    Ok..So..(and this is my take on science ships) Do not focus on the weapons. The screen shot on my Tpau 90% of the damage came from my science "Exotic Damage" boff abilities. Majority of these are "shield ignoring"

    I strongly discourage (mostly for efficacy) running a "Beam build" on an Science ship as You'll want to put as much power as you can in AUX. Escorts and Cruisers are much better at this as they either have more available weapons and dont worry about aux power only weapon power. Treat the weapon slots as...Places for weapon set pieces to go. You can run up 2 3 different weapon sets on a sci ship have it be very effective.

    If you absolutely must run a DHC set..Start looking at:
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Morphogenic_Armaments
    Polaron has the most (Non-Crit energy boosting) Polaron Consoles in the game. You can put 4 different consoles that will actually boost your polaron damage to similar levels as tactical console polaron phase modulators.
    Polaron also has some fun set pieces in the Delta Ordinance (Isokenetic Cannon) , Gamma (Mines are fun) and Lukari (Beam Weaps that increase regen AND CRF or BO add Technical OVERLOAD *an Electric damage ability*) reps that mesh well with the above set.In addition to another free Polaron set,Chronometric Calculations Set(They have shield pen proc and Nice 4 piece clicky)

    If your concern is enemy shields. Slot the 2 piece Quantum Phase Armaments set (Its free). Then hit torpspread and launch that bugger and watch shield drop. 2 points in DrainX should net you 100 Drain and that should be about -14k all shields. There is no better proc or Weapon in the game for ripping shields.

    Fun part about sci ships is ..well..they are very experimental..On build I have runs everything I have thats Tetryon (Orb Weaver with (2) Krenim Temporal Manipulation[Free], (3) Incontrovertible Defenses[Free], (2) Nukara Munitions[Rep]..

    SO yea..Experiment but you'll find its easier to manage if you go from completing weapon sets over trying to shoe horn a beam build into a sci ship.


    Awesome! I now see where my thinking was flawed. I was thinking that if the exotic damage didn't kill them, and drain didn't eliminate shields for torps, I would need the weapons to hit hard enough to drop shields. But now I see the key to the build. Instead of focusing on how hard the weapons hit, I should have been focusing on everything else they bring to the table. Never thought of it that way.

    If I don't focus on the cannon, or dual beam banks type build, I am guessing that matching energy types doesn't matter. I can just focus on putting torp consoles in tac console slots, till I can get better consoles to fill it. (Going to be running this on my new science toon, so I will not be able to get a lot of the stuff till later in the game.)

    Also, I see where you mention that Escorts and Cruisers are best, because they don't need to worry about Aux power. But that also means that you can't run a Commander Science skill. I read that GW 1 and 2 were nerfed (I know that GW 2 is a commander skill). Is this true, or will I still be able to use the build effectively with just a Lt. Commander Science, and possibly a Lt. or Ensign station? Then again, are the better skills for doing the exotic damage then using GW?

    I am seeing how everything is going to come together when I am at endgame. I just need to understand what skills I am better off focusing on when I get there.

    You have given me so much help with this. I am learning so much from you on not only what to use, but also why it works. This is the information I have been looking for. Thanks again so much for the help.

    Razar.
    SSO = Starfleet (not so) Special Operations Group
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    razar2380 wrote: »
    razar2380 wrote: »
    @odinforever20000 Thanks for the help. Sorry I didn't get to respond before now, but I was not able to test out this skill tree till recently. That is the main thing I was looking for.

    I was leaving some of the Ensign skills without any points, because I didn't think that the few points would make any difference. I am still a little curious how much of a difference that shield HP increases will do. Just seems to me that at end game, shields drop so fast that it is pointless. But I might be missing something. Do you think that it would be a good idea to leave points out of skills that increase my shield HP, and put more into my hull heal ability? I was thinking that if I did that, then every time my shields were healed, I could get more heals coming in.

    I also have put a few points into both the energy weapons and torps. Just for the forward facing builds I am wanting to try. DHC or DBB on the T'Pau ship, with 2 torps, and turrets and/or omnis on the back. Then I can just start killing shields quicker, and popping the hull with torps. And, if I put more points into subsystem powers, I think I can get by with having my weapons about 75%, and aux power close, if not, to 100%.

    If possible, can I actually take a picture of a skill tree I have experimented with on another science character, and let you tell me what you think about it vs what I want to eventually accomplish?

    Thanks again for your help,

    Razar.
    I have points in both shield hp and hull hp.

    Ok..So..(and this is my take on science ships) Do not focus on the weapons. The screen shot on my Tpau 90% of the damage came from my science "Exotic Damage" boff abilities. Majority of these are "shield ignoring"

    I strongly discourage (mostly for efficacy) running a "Beam build" on an Science ship as You'll want to put as much power as you can in AUX. Escorts and Cruisers are much better at this as they either have more available weapons and dont worry about aux power only weapon power. Treat the weapon slots as...Places for weapon set pieces to go. You can run up 2 3 different weapon sets on a sci ship have it be very effective.

    If you absolutely must run a DHC set..Start looking at:
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Morphogenic_Armaments
    Polaron has the most (Non-Crit energy boosting) Polaron Consoles in the game. You can put 4 different consoles that will actually boost your polaron damage to similar levels as tactical console polaron phase modulators.
    Polaron also has some fun set pieces in the Delta Ordinance (Isokenetic Cannon) , Gamma (Mines are fun) and Lukari (Beam Weaps that increase regen AND CRF or BO add Technical OVERLOAD *an Electric damage ability*) reps that mesh well with the above set.In addition to another free Polaron set,Chronometric Calculations Set(They have shield pen proc and Nice 4 piece clicky)

    If your concern is enemy shields. Slot the 2 piece Quantum Phase Armaments set (Its free). Then hit torpspread and launch that bugger and watch shield drop. 2 points in DrainX should net you 100 Drain and that should be about -14k all shields. There is no better proc or Weapon in the game for ripping shields.

    Fun part about sci ships is ..well..they are very experimental..On build I have runs everything I have thats Tetryon (Orb Weaver with (2) Krenim Temporal Manipulation[Free], (3) Incontrovertible Defenses[Free], (2) Nukara Munitions[Rep]..

    SO yea..Experiment but you'll find its easier to manage if you go from completing weapon sets over trying to shoe horn a beam build into a sci ship.

    ...

    Also, I see where you mention that Escorts and Cruisers are best, because they don't need to worry about Aux power. But that also means that you can't run a Commander Science skill. I read that GW 1 and 2 were nerfed (I know that GW 2 is a commander skill). Is this true, or will I still be able to use the build effectively with just a Lt. Commander Science, and possibly a Lt. or Ensign station? Then again, are the better skills for doing the exotic damage then using GW?


    Razar.

    Ships that have access to an LTC sci.. Hrmm..Not alot of cruisers or escorts with a LTC Sci..and most of those have a Specialists seat (Pilot..Command..Temporal Miracle worker ect..)..If im not on a Science ship..Im more likely to use a specialty *where available * on my escorts and cruisers as those are less aux dependent...Tho If I were to spring for a GW1..Id need the Trait from the Andorian Pilot ship that reduced the cooldown and add a debuff (basically I get a long duration debuff is how Id use it)


    Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.


  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,180 Arc User
    > @odinforever20000 said:
    > razar2380 wrote: »
    >
    > odinforever20000 wrote: »
    >
    > razar2380 wrote: »
    >
    > @odinforever20000 Thanks for the help. Sorry I didn't get to respond before now, but I was not able to test out this skill tree till recently. That is the main thing I was looking for.
    >
    > I was leaving some of the Ensign skills without any points, because I didn't think that the few points would make any difference. I am still a little curious how much of a difference that shield HP increases will do. Just seems to me that at end game, shields drop so fast that it is pointless. But I might be missing something. Do you think that it would be a good idea to leave points out of skills that increase my shield HP, and put more into my hull heal ability? I was thinking that if I did that, then every time my shields were healed, I could get more heals coming in.
    >
    > I also have put a few points into both the energy weapons and torps. Just for the forward facing builds I am wanting to try. DHC or DBB on the T'Pau ship, with 2 torps, and turrets and/or omnis on the back. Then I can just start killing shields quicker, and popping the hull with torps. And, if I put more points into subsystem powers, I think I can get by with having my weapons about 75%, and aux power close, if not, to 100%.
    >
    > If possible, can I actually take a picture of a skill tree I have experimented with on another science character, and let you tell me what you think about it vs what I want to eventually accomplish?
    >
    > Thanks again for your help,
    >
    > Razar.
    >
    >
    >
    > I have points in both shield hp and hull hp.
    >
    > Ok..So..(and this is my take on science ships) Do not focus on the weapons. The screen shot on my Tpau 90% of the damage came from my science "Exotic Damage" boff abilities. Majority of these are "shield ignoring"
    >
    > I strongly discourage (mostly for efficacy) running a "Beam build" on an Science ship as You'll want to put as much power as you can in AUX. Escorts and Cruisers are much better at this as they either have more available weapons and dont worry about aux power only weapon power. Treat the weapon slots as...Places for weapon set pieces to go. You can run up 2 3 different weapon sets on a sci ship have it be very effective.
    >
    > If you absolutely must run a DHC set..Start looking at:
    > https://sto.gamepedia.com/Morphogenic_Armaments
    > Polaron has the most (Non-Crit energy boosting) Polaron Consoles in the game. You can put 4 different consoles that will actually boost your polaron damage to similar levels as tactical console polaron phase modulators.
    > Polaron also has some fun set pieces in the Delta Ordinance (Isokenetic Cannon) , Gamma (Mines are fun) and Lukari (Beam Weaps that increase regen AND CRF or BO add Technical OVERLOAD *an Electric damage ability*) reps that mesh well with the above set.In addition to another free Polaron set,Chronometric Calculations Set(They have shield pen proc and Nice 4 piece clicky)
    >
    > If your concern is enemy shields. Slot the 2 piece Quantum Phase Armaments set (Its free). Then hit torpspread and launch that bugger and watch shield drop. 2 points in DrainX should net you 100 Drain and that should be about -14k all shields. There is no better proc or Weapon in the game for ripping shields.
    >
    > Fun part about sci ships is ..well..they are very experimental..On build I have runs everything I have thats Tetryon (Orb Weaver with (2) Krenim Temporal Manipulation[Free], (3) Incontrovertible Defenses[Free], (2) Nukara Munitions[Rep]..
    >
    > SO yea..Experiment but you'll find its easier to manage if you go from completing weapon sets over trying to shoe horn a beam build into a sci ship.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ...
    >
    > Also, I see where you mention that Escorts and Cruisers are best, because they don't need to worry about Aux power. But that also means that you can't run a Commander Science skill. I read that GW 1 and 2 were nerfed (I know that GW 2 is a commander skill). Is this true, or will I still be able to use the build effectively with just a Lt. Commander Science, and possibly a Lt. or Ensign station? Then again, are the better skills for doing the exotic damage then using GW?
    >
    >
    > Razar.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Ships that have access to an LTC sci.. Hrmm..Not alot of cruisers or escorts with a LTC Sci..and most of those have a Specialists seat (Pilot..Command..Temporal Miracle worker ect..)..If im not on a Science ship..Im more likely to use a specialty *where available * on my escorts and cruisers as those are less aux dependent...Tho If I were to spring for a GW1..Id need the Trait from the Andorian Pilot ship that reduced the cooldown and add a debuff (basically I get a long duration debuff is how Id use it)



    I was thinking about ones that had a Lt Commander Universal station. Sorry I didn't specify.

    I am thinking about running this build on one of my old Rommies from years ago. I have the Scimitar, and used to use the Lt Commander Universal on it for a science boff so I could pop GW during the old Kobayashi Maru STF.

    I was able to hold one side on my own, and finish things off quick enough to help others out.

    What I meant was, if I was running something that was a tactical ship, but had a Lt Commander Universal station, would you suggest using a science boff for it, or using tactical?

    Sorry for not being clear. It sounded right in my head, but forgot important information. Lol.

    Razar.
    SSO = Starfleet (not so) Special Operations Group
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,550 Arc User
    If you already have a Commander Tac seat, using a Lt. Cmdr Tac seat is difficult without doubling up on powers, which you shouldn't need with an endgame build. There are plenty of ways these days to reduce cooldowns.
    A typical "tactical" suite of abilities would be:
    • Tactical Team
    • One or Two Weapon Buff (torpedo, cannon or beam buffs)
    • One Attack Pattern
    If you're willing to spend money on the Exchange, there is also Kemocite Laced Weaponry. Of course, a Lt.Cmdr Tactical Slot would allow you to boost the tier of one of these powers.
    More attack patterns or weapon buffs will lead to shared cooldowns making it impossible to use them all at once. And with cooldown reductions, you don't need two of them for better uptime.

    So, I would probably go with a Science Boff.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • razar2380razar2380 Member Posts: 1,180 Arc User
    If you already have a Commander Tac seat, using a Lt. Cmdr Tac seat is difficult without doubling up on powers, which you shouldn't need with an endgame build. There are plenty of ways these days to reduce cooldowns.
    A typical "tactical" suite of abilities would be:
    • Tactical Team
    • One or Two Weapon Buff (torpedo, cannon or beam buffs)
    • One Attack Pattern
    If you're willing to spend money on the Exchange, there is also Kemocite Laced Weaponry. Of course, a Lt.Cmdr Tactical Slot would allow you to boost the tier of one of these powers.
    More attack patterns or weapon buffs will lead to shared cooldowns making it impossible to use them all at once. And with cooldown reductions, you don't need two of them for better uptime.

    So, I would probably go with a Science Boff.



    Thanks for the tips. However, I have only seen 1 or 2 universal consoles that reduce the Boff skills cooldowns. Is there something that I am missing, or are you talking about the A2B skill with the Doffs? I know about the Science Boff skill that lowers their cooldowns, but it has such a long cooldown, it seems pointless to me.

    Razar.
    SSO = Starfleet (not so) Special Operations Group
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 543 Arc User
    Please post me your best Science Vessel that you can get your hands on and which other ships/traits do you already have and I'll see what I can work out of your resources towards a 30k+ dps exotic ship (legit science).
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,550 Arc User
    razar2380 wrote: »
    If you already have a Commander Tac seat, using a Lt. Cmdr Tac seat is difficult without doubling up on powers, which you shouldn't need with an endgame build. There are plenty of ways these days to reduce cooldowns.
    A typical "tactical" suite of abilities would be:
    • Tactical Team
    • One or Two Weapon Buff (torpedo, cannon or beam buffs)
    • One Attack Pattern
    If you're willing to spend money on the Exchange, there is also Kemocite Laced Weaponry. Of course, a Lt.Cmdr Tactical Slot would allow you to boost the tier of one of these powers.
    More attack patterns or weapon buffs will lead to shared cooldowns making it impossible to use them all at once. And with cooldown reductions, you don't need two of them for better uptime.

    So, I would probably go with a Science Boff.



    Thanks for the tips. However, I have only seen 1 or 2 universal consoles that reduce the Boff skills cooldowns. Is there something that I am missing, or are you talking about the A2B skill with the Doffs? I know about the Science Boff skill that lowers their cooldowns, but it has such a long cooldown, it seems pointless to me.

    Razar.

    There are several sources for cooldown management, some reducing all cooldwns, some just for specific powers. They aren't always easy to discover. Some involve duty officers, starship mastery traits or other traits, or even specialization abilities.

    The Prelude to Ten Forward is recommended reading if you want to know a lot: https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/wiki/tenforward
    But that's a bit much and covers way more than just cooldown.
    This covers only cooldown management: https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/wiki/tenforward/intermediate
    Maybe the STO Cooldown Calculator spreadsheet might help you discover some (and also potentially calculate): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LMPZbTHi2ja8c0ZMTDjIYKTTZW1KHcerBllAFSpvXd4/edit#gid=1306182790

    None of this is my work, it's all people in the STO community that collected the data, figured out mechanics or assembled information from the devs.

    I typically used Reciprocity and All Hands on Deck (both Starship Mastery Traits) as main cooldown reduction. It works fine in solo play, but in group content, Reciprocity might not proc as often because someone else is drawing all the aggro. If no one is shooting at you, they're also never missing.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • odinforever20000odinforever20000 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    edited February 27
    Depending on yor build..
    1 copy of Photonic Bridge Officer1 (+ at least 30% sci cooldowns ..so like a SciCD deflector and cooldown from the skill tree) will bring nearly all of your abilities to global (Duplicate copy minimum cooldown time). I also run at least 10% Cooldown on eng and tac abilities.

    My test with it yesterday with all the abilities I run.,
    Photonic Officer (2% reduction per sec for 20 sec)

    Ability 30%Cd->Photonic BO enhancement

    ApO 56s ->32s(Near (global)
    Torpedo Spread 28s->18s (Near (global)
    Kemocite2 28s->18s (Near (global)

    Rapid Decay 34s-> 20s(global)
    Photonic Shockwave. 30s-> 30s(global)
    DrB1 61s-> 36s.-45s (36s is after ability has deactivated)
    Structual Analysis 25s-> 20s (global)
    TBR3 27s-> 20s(Near (global) (20s is after ability has deactivated)
    HE1 32s-> 30s(global)

    Aux2Sif 12s-> 10s(global)
    EMpE /S 38s-> 30s(global)
    Eteam 25s-> 15s(global)

    Granted..I only have Photonic BO slotted now for PVP stuff..for PVE..30% Sci CD has been fine. You can also passively slot or run about 70-99% Sci Cd with an assorted bunch of consoles..Deflector..traits..and Krenim boffs...
    Takes about 80% to bring some of the really quick abilities like TBR back online at global...Aint no way I can bring DRB to global (its 15 secs..)

    Some more cooldown stuff found here...we have pictures..
    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Skill:_Scientific_Readiness
    Post edited by odinforever20000 on


    Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.


  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 2,711 Arc User
    the old prometheus escort has a lcdr sci slot. if you have that guy might be fun to experiment.
    Spock.jpg

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