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The Stats of the Discovery Operations Bundle!

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  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 1,105 Arc User
    I forget when a long time ago during a live stream I remember Cryptic peeps stating that they work in like a 6 month cycle from thinking something up to planning to creating to releasing. I do think that was for in game events though but it has to be something similar with ships too. If that is somewhat accurate then the whole Romulan & Jem'Hadar more ships thing being added in the future was just a ruse or falling really behind. I just think Cryptic for whatever reason is focusing way too much on Discovery & not other aspects of ST for STO.

    The M'Chla has the Raider Starship Mastery Traits but nothing said about the ship itself having Raider Flanking or as it should be Improved Raider Flanking? I guess the same could be stated for the Shran. A pretty bad copy & paste omission or bad decision to leave that out of its abilities. I guess this is a Bird-of-Prey by title only just like the Discovery character creation event Disc toons. The Graviton Displacer console seems nice enough but not too innovative to me & doesn't wow me. The Strike from Shadows trait seems good & innovative & possibly some ambushy fun but not enough to buy this over priced package. The Hypercharged Field Projector seems luke-warm & doesn't "spark" my interest on its own merits. I'll let the "space rich" gloat about its awesomeness.

    The Gagarin & the Qugh seem like fine enough ships. At least these begin with 11 consoles capability with Fleet version adding that Miracle Worker class 12th. These ships have a more intriguing console the Refracting Energy Shunt & a far better starship trait Entwined Tactical Matrices in my opinion.

    All the ships' stats seem well enough for their respected tiers & the designs are good but then again remembering they are Discovery themed though lessens that shine. I'm actually preferring most of the fleet skins so that will work out for me in the long term since neither the starships' consoles nor traits are must haves for me but that Strike from Shadows is nice. These seem like perfect candidates for those Reputation earned fleet ship modules to me. As long as Cryptic doesn't retract that option lol.

    Just more Cryptic attempts of having us pay the same or more & then getting less for it:

    I still laugh at the idea of that special Walker class skin, & it is nice looking, only being usable up to level 40.

    No discount for players that already purchased the Discovery starter pack.

    BOFFs & maybe combat pet not being account wide unlocks.

    Raider trait packs on ships but then ships not having a raider flanking grade.

  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    *Sigh*... I remember a day not too long ago when the Romulans were actually a faction. It would be amazing to have a scaling Warbird for our toons. I have a question that I'd like to hear from a dev on... do you folks intend to EVER make another new Romulan-specific ship, or are we just being pushed aside?

    Why bother? Their word is worth so little right now it isn't even funny. Officially they have said there will be more Romulan ships...but that was almost a year ago...so while it would technically be true if they released one at any point in the future, the actual spirit of the message has been dead for months now. Basically when we got two bundles in a row with no Romulan ship.

    Multiple bundles, as well as individual Fed only ship releases. And it's not the first time it's happened to the Romulans either. There's precedent for it, as well as KDF getting the fat end of a fleshy shaft with no friction reducing oils. The last warbird was what...from the Miracle Worker bundle? Since I'm not sure if the Romulan temporal ships are warbirds with singularity mechanics or not.
  • gulremalgulremal Member Posts: 153 Arc User
    Um, why BoP has no raider flanking? Is that experimental weapon slot supposed to be "balancing it out"?
    Also, does the Qugh have a cloak or not? Normal version mentions battle cloak (probably copy pasta error) but fleet version has none?
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,635 Arc User
    What's with the stats of the Battlecruiser having low shields, average hull and low turnrate?
    Hull Modifier: 1.25 (scales with level)
    Shield Modifier: .95 (scales with level)
    Base Turn Rate: 7.5
    Impulse Modifier: 0.15
    Inertia: 50

    The Arbiter has:

    Hull modifier:1.25
    Shield modifier:1
    Turn rate:9
    Impulse modifier:0.15
    Inertia rating: 50

    Arbiter is higher in most of those stats except where it ties. Usually, Turnrate, Hull Modifier, and Shield Modifier are in a relationship where lowering one will raise one or both of the others. In this case, one is average for a Battle Cruiser, but the other two are way lower for some reason.

    Onto other things, "While this trait is slotted, activating Beams: Fire at Will or Cannons: Scatter Volley causes your next torpedo attack to be a Torpedo Spread. Activating Torpedo Spread causes you to gain Beams: Fire at Will and Cannons: Scatter Volley for a short duration." How does this interact with cooldowns and how long is "a short duration" for FAW and CSV?
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    hence them opening both Jem'hadar and Romulans to the full advantage of T5 and T6 ships, with limits.
    if I wanna fly a fed/kdf ship Ill use a fed/kdf character... not a f'king romulan, I dont want your ships take them and and the permission to use em and shove em... along with the ability to 'double dip' academy doff, just give me my romulans/remans and maybe sulibonbon

  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 1,105 Arc User
    gulremal wrote: »
    Um, why BoP has no raider flanking? Is that experimental weapon slot supposed to be "balancing it out"?
    Also, does the Qugh have a cloak or not? Normal version mentions battle cloak (probably copy pasta error) but fleet version has none?

    Good catch on the Qugh having a cloak or not. It probably is just a lousy copy & paste job & it does have cloak. If it doesn't then I'd really amazed with the decision & the disconnect. For the experimental weapon "balancing out" no apparent raider flanking on this raider I don't see it. Other raiders, & yes they have raider flanking, also have experimental weapons.

    tom61sto wrote: »
    What's with the stats of the Battlecruiser having low shields, average hull and low turnrate?
    Hull Modifier: 1.25 (scales with level)
    Shield Modifier: .95 (scales with level)
    Base Turn Rate: 7.5
    Impulse Modifier: 0.15
    Inertia: 50

    The Arbiter has:

    Hull modifier:1.25
    Shield modifier:1
    Turn rate:9
    Impulse modifier:0.15
    Inertia rating: 50

    Arbiter is higher in most of those stats except where it ties. Usually, Turnrate, Hull Modifier, and Shield Modifier are in a relationship where lowering one will raise one or both of the others. In this case, one is average for a Battle Cruiser, but the other two are way lower for some reason.

    Onto other things, "While this trait is slotted, activating Beams: Fire at Will or Cannons: Scatter Volley causes your next torpedo attack to be a Torpedo Spread. Activating Torpedo Spread causes you to gain Beams: Fire at Will and Cannons: Scatter Volley for a short duration." How does this interact with cooldowns and how long is "a short duration" for FAW and CSV?

    Very nice direct comparison between this Gagarin & the Arbiter. I'd think the determining factor(s) nowadays has a lot ot do with the special consoles, ship special traits, & BOFF seating too.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    So lets see.. we have Pilot Escorts with 4 forward weapons, making them inferior to the current crop of Pilot Escorts..

    These ships are also not Fleet Level like every other Pilot Escort currently in existence..

    We have a Battle Cruiser that's inferior to the Battle Cruiser we already have (Arbiter)

    This Battle Cruiser again.. is not fleet level from the store unlike the current Miracle Worker ships..

    And I get all this in a $120 pack with a bunch of per character unlocks?

    It's almost like Cryptic wants to see how few of these things they can actually sell. This is the most botched product launch in STO history hands down.

    This is a hard pass on everything.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,635 Arc User
    I just noticed, the Console – Universal – Refracting Energy Shunt seems to be basically an updated version of Console - Universal - Proton Destabilizer Module from the old Tactical version of the Dyson Science Destroyer. So, for anyone that was hoping for updates to the Dyson ships to pair with the Vulcan Scout Ship, Cryptic is willing to meet you 1/6th of the way, lol (3 ships + 3 consoles, versus 1 console).
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    tom61sto wrote: »
    What's with the stats of the Battlecruiser having low shields, average hull and low turnrate?

    Hull Modifier: 1.25 (scales with level)
    Shield Modifier: .95 (scales with level)
    Base Turn Rate: 7.5
    Impulse Modifier: 0.15
    Inertia: 50

    The Arbiter has:

    Hull modifier:1.25
    Shield modifier:1
    Turn rate:9
    Impulse modifier:0.15
    Inertia rating: 50

    Arbiter is higher in most of those stats except where it ties. Usually, Turnrate, Hull Modifier, and Shield Modifier are in a relationship where lowering one will raise one or both of the others. In this case, one is average for a Battle Cruiser, but the other two are way lower for some reason.

    Onto other things, "While this trait is slotted, activating Beams: Fire at Will or Cannons: Scatter Volley causes your next torpedo attack to be a Torpedo Spread. Activating Torpedo Spread causes you to gain Beams: Fire at Will and Cannons: Scatter Volley for a short duration." How does this interact with cooldowns and how long is "a short duration" for FAW and CSV?

    Don't forget about the garbage Europa's low turnrate and 2(3 if fleet version...FLEET VERSION) tactical console slots. For a 5/3 ship, that's just terrible. Negh'var/Negh'tev, Vor'kang/Vor'ral, Mogh/Kurak, Bortasqu', among other battlecruisers had a minimum of 3 at base. Without having to dump fleet modules.
  • badgerpants999badgerpants999 Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    I'll be buying the Shran, I do hope that it has raider flanking though, Pilot maneuvers aren't enough to compensate for the lack of the 3rd Aft or 5th Forward weapon slot. This thing will be significantly under gunned without Raider Flanking at Tiers 5/6.

    Edit: Thinking about this, It's got the Raider Starship Mastery Package, Raider movement profile (21 Degrees per second turn rate and impulse modifier of .23) Plus 2 (sorry 4) Universal Boff slots. This SHOULD by all rights have raider flanking 33%. We just need an official proclamation to confirm my suppositions.
    Post edited by badgerpants999 on
  • fewzzfewzz Member Posts: 242 Arc User
    Over 100 for a few ships to do the same as what we been doing for year after year, pass, what a rip off this pack is.
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @iconians said:
    > I might pick up the Fleet Variants with my T6 Reputation fleet modules. But the $120 pack itself is an absolute rip-off, and there are more people who agree with me than those who don't.​​

    Proof?

    look at reddit, twitter, and forum
  • themadprofessor#9835 themadprofessor Member Posts: 1,203 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @iconians said:
    > I might pick up the Fleet Variants with my T6 Reputation fleet modules. But the $120 pack itself is an absolute rip-off, and there are more people who agree with me than those who don't.​​

    Proof?

    look at reddit, twitter, and forum

    Not to mention in-game chat...
    Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.

    Things I want in STO:

    1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
    2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
    3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
    4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
    5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
    6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
    7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
    8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
  • nebfabnebfab Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    The ships are OK. I'm almost tempted by the pilot raiders you can use from the tutorial on just because thrustering around would be a neat QoL improvement as you level. (And I always wanted a pilot raider in the game.)

    But the operations pack IS a shameless rip-off, for the reasons everyone is talking about. I'm not playing or posting much right now, but, seriously, Cryptic...
  • djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,378 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    > @reyan01 said:
    > kodachikuno wrote: »
    >
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > > @iconians said:
    > > I might pick up the Fleet Variants with my T6 Reputation fleet modules. But the $120 pack itself is an absolute rip-off, and there are more people who agree with me than those who don't.​​
    >
    > Proof?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > look at reddit, twitter, and forum
    >
    >
    >
    > AND the fact that they seem to have listened to all of that feedback: ambassadorkael#6946 wrote: »
    >
    > In addition to the previously announced 30% off sale, the Discovery Operations Pack has gotten even better! For purchasers of the Discovery Starter Pack, you'll be able to buy the Operations Pack for 10500 ZEN. In addition, the two bridge officers are now account wide unlocks!

    This is a surprise...I own the starter pack, so I might actually consider it now, if there is still a discount off of the 10,500 zen.

    EDIT:
    I was trying to be supportive of the gesture, but on second thought, the 8000-9000 should have been full price, with 6500-7500 (this is just a quick approximation in my head) being the price for owners of the starter pack, based on the general cost/value of every other previously released pack, the breakdown of which has been mentioned multiple times over the last few days.
    C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

    Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
    -Captain James T. Kirk
  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 1,105 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    nommo#5819 wrote: »
    I still laugh at the idea of that special Walker class skin, & it is nice looking, only being usable up to level 40.

    Except that the text suggests that the Lobi store T6 version can use it it too.

    That was never in dispute. I'm stating the fact that within itself this package is saying here is this ultra exclusive ship skin, & it looks like a damn nice one, for a ship that only scales up to level 30 or 40. Do you get the T6 Lobi version of the ship in this package? No, so why are you connecting it to it when it doesn't come in the pack. If it was a fully scaling Walker class then awesome. Cryptic might as well as placed super duper ship skins for some 1 billion EC costing ships in there too.
  • discojerdiscojer Member Posts: 533 Arc User
    We have a Battle Cruiser that's inferior to the Battle Cruiser we already have (Arbiter)

    This Battle Cruiser again.. is not fleet level from the store unlike the current Miracle Worker ships..

    I don't see how it's inferior. Yes, the base stats are a little worse, but it's got an extra console slot (12 instead of 11) and it has Commander Miracle Worker. The Arbiter only has Commander Engineer.

  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 1,105 Arc User
    discojer wrote: »
    We have a Battle Cruiser that's inferior to the Battle Cruiser we already have (Arbiter)

    This Battle Cruiser again.. is not fleet level from the store unlike the current Miracle Worker ships..

    I don't see how it's inferior. Yes, the base stats are a little worse, but it's got an extra console slot (12 instead of 11) and it has Commander Miracle Worker. The Arbiter only has Commander Engineer.

    Yeah I've been going back & forth on that one as well. I've decided that toss-up it just left to the individual player to decide which is preferred.

    I'm still waiting to see if Cryptic just brain-farted & omitted the Improved Raider Flanking for the raiders on the official linked page or are trying to justify not giving them that ability.

    As I stated in another thread, Cryptic should really consider, if they haven't already, having one of their Ten Forward Weekly streams to market this package & be willing to answer some possible tough/direct questions about how this pack was implemented not just ignore & dodge the questions they dislike. Use the stream to shine a light on the positives, quell maybe any negatives, & explain the reasons.
  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 1,105 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @reyan01 said:
    > nommo#5819 wrote: »
    >
    > reyan01 wrote: »
    >
    > nommo#5819 wrote: »
    >
    > I still laugh at the idea of that special Walker class skin, & it is nice looking, only being usable up to level 40.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Except that the text suggests that the Lobi store T6 version can use it it too.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > That was never in dispute. I'm stating the fact that within itself this package is saying here is this ultra exclusive ship skin, & it looks like a damn nice one, for a ship that only scales up to level 30 or 40. Do you get the T6 Lobi version of the ship in this package? No, so why are you connecting it to it when it doesn't come in the pack. If it was a fully scaling Walker class then awesome. Cryptic might as well as placed super duper ship skins for some 1 billion EC costing ships in there too.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Tunnel vision.
    >
    > Plenty of players DO own the T6 (Lobi) Walker class, and that fact will undoubtedly prompt some of those players to purchase this pack to unlock the new skin for it.

    I own the Lobi Walker and the scaling Walker already.
    reyan01 wrote: »
    nommo#5819 wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    nommo#5819 wrote: »
    I still laugh at the idea of that special Walker class skin, & it is nice looking, only being usable up to level 40.

    Except that the text suggests that the Lobi store T6 version can use it it too.

    That was never in dispute. I'm stating the fact that within itself this package is saying here is this ultra exclusive ship skin, & it looks like a damn nice one, for a ship that only scales up to level 30 or 40. Do you get the T6 Lobi version of the ship in this package? No, so why are you connecting it to it when it doesn't come in the pack. If it was a fully scaling Walker class then awesome. Cryptic might as well as placed super duper ship skins for some 1 billion EC costing ships in there too.

    Tunnel vision.

    Plenty of players DO own the T6 (Lobi) Walker class, and that fact will undoubtedly prompt some of those players to purchase this pack to unlock the new skin for it.


    So tell me how much value do you give the special Walker skin for any player that doesn't own the Lobi Walker? If it won't apply to a top tier ship that we end up piloting then, imo, it doesn't add much value. "Cryptic might as well as placed super duper ship skins for some 1 billion EC costing ships in there too." That ads the same amount of value for someone that doesn't own the Lobi Walker. So again, within the package itself & not anything outside of the pack it adds minimal value. I know it can be tough, but try to think beyond your own grasp. Do you think more players own the Lobi Walker than not own in STO? it might had been easier & better just to make the Walker fully level scaling.

  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    nommo#5819 wrote: »
    discojer wrote: »
    We have a Battle Cruiser that's inferior to the Battle Cruiser we already have (Arbiter)

    This Battle Cruiser again.. is not fleet level from the store unlike the current Miracle Worker ships..

    I don't see how it's inferior. Yes, the base stats are a little worse, but it's got an extra console slot (12 instead of 11) and it has Commander Miracle Worker. The Arbiter only has Commander Engineer.

    Yeah I've been going back & forth on that one as well. I've decided that toss-up it just left to the individual player to decide which is preferred.

    I'm still waiting to see if Cryptic just brain-farted & omitted the Improved Raider Flanking for the raiders on the official linked page or are trying to justify not giving them that ability.

    As I stated in another thread, Cryptic should really consider, if they haven't already, having one of their Ten Forward Weekly streams to market this package & be willing to answer some possible tough/direct questions about how this pack was implemented not just ignore & dodge the questions they dislike. Use the stream to shine a light on the positives, quell maybe any negatives, & explain the reasons.

    I don't know if you tuned into their Ten Forward weekly streams lately, but they tend to show off ships that they are releasing. They did it for the S'torr Fek'ihri ship, the Styx dreadnought and the T'pau most recently.

    TSC_Signature_Gen_4_-_Vegeta_Small.png
  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 1,105 Arc User
    nommo#5819 wrote: »
    discojer wrote: »
    We have a Battle Cruiser that's inferior to the Battle Cruiser we already have (Arbiter)

    This Battle Cruiser again.. is not fleet level from the store unlike the current Miracle Worker ships..

    I don't see how it's inferior. Yes, the base stats are a little worse, but it's got an extra console slot (12 instead of 11) and it has Commander Miracle Worker. The Arbiter only has Commander Engineer.

    Yeah I've been going back & forth on that one as well. I've decided that toss-up it just left to the individual player to decide which is preferred.

    I'm still waiting to see if Cryptic just brain-farted & omitted the Improved Raider Flanking for the raiders on the official linked page or are trying to justify not giving them that ability.

    As I stated in another thread, Cryptic should really consider, if they haven't already, having one of their Ten Forward Weekly streams to market this package & be willing to answer some possible tough/direct questions about how this pack was implemented not just ignore & dodge the questions they dislike. Use the stream to shine a light on the positives, quell maybe any negatives, & explain the reasons.

    I don't know if you tuned into their Ten Forward weekly streams lately, but they tend to show off ships that they are releasing. They did it for the S'torr Fek'ihri ship, the Styx dreadnought and the T'pau most recently.

    Yeah, I know they normally do hence why I stated, "if they haven't already," & I normally tune-in when I can since it is entertaining & educational, but this time Cryptic should really emphasize it for people to view. If they don't cower from tough questions & are willing to answer about this pack it might help sell more, & I think it will sell well enough now, & soothe doubts about how this pack was organized.
  • badgerpants999badgerpants999 Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    Just as a design thing, but. Why are the impulse engines in top of the warp nacelles? There's a much better place for them just inside the nacelles, it's even got artwork suggesting it. So why put the impulse engines on top of the nacelles? There's no corresponding impulse engine below the nacelles, as you might expect from a Pilot Escort. So why not have the impulse engines between the nacelles, right nest to the Main Hangar Bay?
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    discojer wrote: »
    We have a Battle Cruiser that's inferior to the Battle Cruiser we already have (Arbiter)

    This Battle Cruiser again.. is not fleet level from the store unlike the current Miracle Worker ships..

    I don't see how it's inferior. Yes, the base stats are a little worse, but it's got an extra console slot (12 instead of 11) and it has Commander Miracle Worker. The Arbiter only has Commander Engineer.

    Very much a matter of personal opinion. The extra console.. at least for me has to be used to offset the fact that it only has 3 tactical consoles. It still comes out with one extra, you lose Intel and gain Miracle Worker. You get worse hull, worse shields, a pretty bad turn rate for a battle cruiser (7.5) and the Arbiter comes with the best trait in the game.

    In direct comparison, if I had 3k Zen and could get one of the two, the Arbiter would win hands down. Again though, I concede that this is nothing but my own personal preference. If you prefer Miracle Worker to Intel (both are good) and you consider the one extra console.. you can count these as a wash.

    The Escorts however, are inferior to all current pilot escorts in pretty much every possible way.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • nebfabnebfab Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    edited February 2019

    The Escorts however, are inferior to all current pilot escorts in pretty much every possible way.

    IDK. Between flanking (I hope they'll get it) and scaling tier (good for new players/alts) they can be nice value... If they were in their own pack.

    Even with the currently announced improvements, ops pack is still a rip-off, and as individual buys it depends on what other ships you have and how annoyed are you by needing to switch ships as you level...
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    nebfab wrote: »

    The Escorts however, are inferior to all current pilot escorts in pretty much every possible way.

    IDK. Between flanking (I hope they'll get it) and scaling tier (good for new players/alts) they can be nice value... If they were in their own pack.

    Even with the currently announced improvements, ops pack is still a rip-off, and as individual buys it depends on what other ships you have and how annoyed are you by needing to switch ships as you level...

    They don't have flanking and are unlikely to get it.

    The scaling doesn't particularly add to their value. The free ships you obtain through the level up process are plenty sufficient, and the convenience of keeping the same ship the entire time is not a good trade off for the fact that you eventually end up with an end game ship that is inferior to other available offerings. Even a new player is better served by just using what the game gives them until level 50 and then buying an Andorian or Faction Pilot Escort.

    Don't get me wrong, the scaling mechanic is cool, but it can't be used as an excuse to massively over price ships.

    The current Pilot Escorts are the best escorts in the game, these fall well short of the current standard. The fact that they scale isn't a good trade off and Cryptic is assigning way too high of a value to that feature.
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  • nebfabnebfab Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    edited February 2019
    nebfab wrote: »

    The Escorts however, are inferior to all current pilot escorts in pretty much every possible way.

    IDK. Between flanking (I hope they'll get it) and scaling tier (good for new players/alts) they can be nice value... If they were in their own pack.

    Even with the currently announced improvements, ops pack is still a rip-off, and as individual buys it depends on what other ships you have and how annoyed are you by needing to switch ships as you level...

    They don't have flanking and are unlikely to get it.

    Was there anything on the stream or somewhere else to that effect?
    The Jayce write-up (which, I know is just a piece of non-binding fluff) https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11084713-jayce's-interstellar:-around-the-galaxy makes it sound like they will, and this isn't the first time when Cryptic forgot to mention these kinds of features in the official stats.

    I agree that without flanking it's clearly a subpar ship, scaling or no scaling.
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