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Jem'Hadar Question

foxspirit13foxspirit13 Member Posts: 75 Arc User
Are you playing a Dominion Ubermensch?

How did you make them look? I don't like playing male characters, never have, never will. So I made mine androgynous... or as androgynous as a spikey space lizard-man can be.

Also, I am half-remembering this, but what was the name of the planet in DS9 that Bashir was trying to cure their White addiction on? Or was it solely on the station, if a planet, did it even have a name?

Comments

  • lazarus51166lazarus51166 Member Posts: 646 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Jem Hadar are clones, all of them, and they don't have a gender.

    No, they're genetically engineered but they aren't clones. Clones would be identical, they're not
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    Hippocrtic Oath is the name of the episode, but I cannot find a reference to the name of the planet.

    Clones might or might not be identical. A lot goes on in a child's growth cycle, and a lot of what we think of as racial differences are little more than hormonal expressions. Take Identical Twins for an example. I've known several, and while it's generally accepted that Fraternal twins are different, identical twins always look alike, right? Except for the Clayton twins, one of whom was brown-haired and green-eyed, and the other blue-eyed and blond. Or the Foret twins, one of whom was taller and athletic while the other was rail-thin and clumsy.

    And, if they are clones of thousands of different strains, the variances are even more likely to be apparent. The genetic manipulation might culture an A strain for command, a B strain for coordination, a C strain for meat-shields, a D strain for technical aptitude, and so on. Separate cloning facilities might compete to create better As, in which case they will use completely different material for their clones. The result would be all Jem Hadar are clones, but not all clones from the same genetic material.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Jem Hadar are clones, all of them, and they don't have a gender.

    Respectfully.. that is completely wrong.

    As said before, they are not clones. They are 'Genetically Engineered' but it's never specified that they are from the exact same DNA source or that they're clones. They also vary in appearance and size which further indicates that they are not clones. They are tank generated and 'grown' over the course of 3 days.

    Vorta clone themselves, Jem'Hadar are not clones.

    Also, in the DS9 Episode 'To The Death' the Jem'Hadar specifically tells Dax that all Jem'hadar are male (specifically, he says the species 'has no females.') He does not say that there are no genders, he specifically says the female gender does not exist.

    All Jem'hadar are genetically engineered males.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Jem Hadar are clones, all of them, and they don't have a gender.

    Respectfully.. that is completely wrong.

    As said before, they are not clones. They are 'Genetically Engineered' but it's never specified that they are from the exact same DNA source or that they're clones. They also vary in appearance and size which further indicates that they are not clones. They are tank generated and 'grown' over the course of 3 days.

    Vorta clone themselves, Jem'Hadar are not clones.

    Also, in the DS9 Episode 'To The Death' the Jem'Hadar specifically tells Dax that all Jem'hadar are male (specifically, he says the species 'has no females.') He does not say that there are no genders, he specifically says the female gender does not exist.

    All Jem'hadar are genetically engineered males.

    Okay, I'm going to challenge you on this one: How does one genetically engineer an organism and bring it to life without it being a clone? A clone need not be identical to its parent, it only requires donated genetic materials. If those materials are altered they are still donor materials, which are then used to, umm, clone, a new being.

    Is it your position that every single Jem Hadar is individually genetically manufactured from materials not donated by other Jem Hadar?
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Jem Hadar are clones, all of them, and they don't have a gender.

    Respectfully.. that is completely wrong.

    As said before, they are not clones. They are 'Genetically Engineered' but it's never specified that they are from the exact same DNA source or that they're clones. They also vary in appearance and size which further indicates that they are not clones. They are tank generated and 'grown' over the course of 3 days.

    Vorta clone themselves, Jem'Hadar are not clones.

    Also, in the DS9 Episode 'To The Death' the Jem'Hadar specifically tells Dax that all Jem'hadar are male (specifically, he says the species 'has no females.') He does not say that there are no genders, he specifically says the female gender does not exist.

    All Jem'hadar are genetically engineered males.

    Okay, I'm going to challenge you on this one: How does one genetically engineer an organism and bring it to life without it being a clone? A clone need not be identical to its parent, it only requires donated genetic materials. If those materials are altered they are still donor materials, which are then used to, umm, clone, a new being.

    Is it your position that every single Jem Hadar is individually genetically manufactured from materials not donated by other Jem Hadar?

    Taking samples from the same genetic source does not make 2 beings clones. Siblings come from the same genetic source, yet obviously, they are not clones.

    It's obvious that things are changed in the process, otherwise every Jem'Hadar would be exactly identical. Maybe it's something as small as a marker for hair or eye color, maybe those things are randomly inserted.. how should I know? I can only go by the material given in the show and what can be observed on screen.

    It's obvious that they're not clones. Genetically engineering people does not necessarily make them clones. As for the exact process of genetic engineering.. you would have to ask a staff writer.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • foxspirit13foxspirit13 Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited January 2019
    You're splitting hairs Brian (lol). Also not what the question in my OP was...

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/clone

    Clones are by their definition identical, you're thinking of Vorta. Vat-grown critters can be identical, but the Jem'hadar are not as said before.

    Also I never said, or asked if the Jem could be female; all I said was I don't like playing males so I made mine look less masculine.

    Also thank you, I knew which episode it was, but my internet hunting as producing no info on the planet... and my half-remembered info was confusing the episode with the one from Voyager where there were borg that were living as separate beings stranded on a planet.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited January 2019
    Clones are by their definition identical,

    Yes, exactly. So we agree that Jem'Hadar are indeed NOT clones since they obviously are not identical.
    you're thinking of Vorta.

    No, I am thinking of Jem'Hadar. I already pointed out in an earlier post that Vorta are clones. Again, we agree.
    Vat-grown critters can be identical, but the Jem'hadar are not as said before.

    Again, agreed. I am not sure why we are going back and forth.. we seem to be in 100% agreement. I do not agree that Jem'Hadar are clones.. they're not. You are exactly right.. tank grown or genetically engineered creatures CAN be identical.. but they don't HAVE to be identical. Clones are the ones that have to be identical.
    Also I never said, or asked if the Jem could be female; all I said was I don't like playing males so I made mine look less masculine.

    Fair enough. My reply on gender was to another poster that said Jem'Hadar have no gender. That is not correct, they have a Gender.. male. How you represent your own character or justify that character is entirely your choice and you are free to do that however you wish. I did not intend to imply that you were in some way wrong. In 'cannon' Jem'Hadar are Male. If yours isn't.. or has some radically different appearance then cool by me.

    I would never want you to tell me how to play my characters, and I will absolutely pay you the same courtesy. :)


    Insert witty signature line here.
  • foxspirit13foxspirit13 Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    SeaofSorrows, you're confusing me with Brian334 lol.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    SeaofSorrows, you're confusing me with Brian334 lol.

    I am indeed.. sorry about that. :)
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • foxspirit13foxspirit13 Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    Sorry from me too, I should have quoted them.
  • cheesebasketcheesebasket Member Posts: 1,099 Arc User
    Jem hadar hatch from eggs about the same size as a Horta egg, and reach full combat readiness in a week, there were some (now completely cut from the game) Cardassian story missions where a ship randomly exploded and the life pods landed on a world with an Alpha JemHadar nursery as well as an Alpha quadrant version of the great link...

    During the mission you had to shut down the incubators and defeat a first, and then speak to the alpha quadrant link, who'd then kick out a founder called lars for you to capture because he was behind the alpha Jemhadar shenanigans...

    When they reworked the Cardassian missions this version of that mission was almost entirely changed
    The hamster will RULE ALLL....

    Mwahahahahahahaha
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