STO Ate 2,000,000 Dilithium -.-

2»

Comments

  • lapprenticel
    lapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    Another multiple response post, mostly to correct some apparent misperceptions.

    rattler2
    I'm currently running 10 toons - mostly just logging in to refine raw dilthium I've accrued over years of play (I have something like 300,000 - 1,400,000 on each toon), and saving that refined dilithium until such time as zen is going cheap, such as the end of a Phoenix Event. I cashed in most of my spare zen as soon as I saw an event was on - about 12 hours after it started, by which time the price had dropped about 20 points, but figured on selling zen high, and buying more zen after the price had dropped. Sadly it really hasn't fallen much past my sell price.

    leemwatson
    I didn't want to withdraw dilithium and I'm not sure why\how it happened. Even had I wanted it I would not have wanted to withdraw more than the cap!!! Yes I have other toons I can store dilithium on - as noted I'm running 10, but I use dilithium almost exclusively to buy zen so have no reason to remove it from the Exchange.

    scarletscar
    The dilthium was from selling a bundle of zen (perhaps 40,000 zen) shortly after logging on and seeing a Phoenix Event was on. My intention was to sell high at the start of the event, and rebuy towards the end when the price fell further. The loss of roughly 2,000,000 dilthium means that when I rebuy I'll have lost roughly 7,000 zen.



    Before anyone queries how it's possible to have "Warren Buffet" levels of zen, it's only akin to about 5 months of refining across 10 toons - something easily achievable by any player who doesn't waste dilithium on everything that catches their eye. Offhand my main dilithium 'sink' has been on the Nukara set, and that a while back. I've also been playing for several years and 'converted' most of my refined dilithium to zen.
  • valoreah
    valoreah Member Posts: 11,007 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    I do feel sorry for you, but my sympathies are limited by the fact that you in essence poured five gallons of water into a four-gallon bucket, and are now upset that the floor's a mess and you're missing a gallon of water. The limitations were pretty clearly spelled out before you even started...

    The limitations is where the poor design comes into play - is it clearly spelled out on the Dil store screen with an alert or warning of some kind to let the user know they are about to exceed the cap and will lose X amount of Dil?
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • roguealltrek
    roguealltrek Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    I do feel sorry for you, but my sympathies are limited by the fact that you in essence poured five gallons of water into a four-gallon bucket, and are now upset that the floor's a mess and you're missing a gallon of water. The limitations were pretty clearly spelled out before you even started...

    The limitations is where the poor design comes into play - is it clearly spelled out on the Dil store screen with an alert or warning of some kind to let the user know they are about to exceed the cap and will lose X amount of Dil?

    It may be a poor design i will agree to that extent. But is it all that needed to be spelled out?

    How many people need a big red button pop up on there screen to save them from them self?

    Just how far is needed to make sure we cant make a mistake, do we need a pop up for everything we salvage as once you hit that line its gone, What happens if some one sneezes and a accident happens by hitting it?

    Why this could involve real money the exchange was built to "EITHER" sell dil to get zen or sell zen to get dil. Its not the New York stock exchange and was never built to act like one. The ideal some one would buy dil to such a extent on the exchange to break the cap limit with real money i'm pretty sure did not cross the minds of the devs that made it.

    I don't see the need to have this changed as we have seen any change to something that is working tends to toss in bugs, and the exchange is not a place i would want fun bugs that suddenly decide everyone no longer has zen and wipes it.

    Any one in this game that has been here longer than 6 months has at some time put there pointer over the dil section of the assets and seen the pop up stating the limits. Weather the person cared to read that small part is debatable.

    I my self have had zen on the exchange in larger amounts but i also know that unless recently changed the limit of zen in a single sale order is 5K or 50$ each even if you were buying at the max market prices of 500 a zen that is still only 2.5M at the most with a 10M limit you can place 200$ worth of zen on the exchange at a time and not go over cap even at max. Be logical about it when you make a lot of dil from selling zen draw it off before it reaches a amount that you would even need to worry about this issue. Some safety net do to some one not paying attention seams a wast of dev time to me.
    To be or not to be: B)
  • ltminns
    ltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    When you get rid of that Rare Mk II Quantum Torpedo that came with the Starter Pack a screen pops up requiring a typed entry to allow the deletion.

    When you want to release a Ship a dialog box appears wanting you to enter the name of your ship that you wish to release.

    When...
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • roguealltrek
    roguealltrek Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    When you get rid of that Rare Mk II Quantum Torpedo that came with the Starter Pack a screen pops up requiring a typed entry to allow the deletion.

    When you want to release a Ship a dialog box appears wanting you to enter the name of your ship that you wish to release.

    When...

    Yes i am aware of these typing boxes to get rid of something. On every person every time they hit admiralty system unlock i get to do that joy filled task of getting every ship i have access to and then trashing them for over a hour just to fill out the admiralty cards. There are a great many other aspects of this game that provide no assurance for taking actions. Selling items, trashing items, spending your different currency in stores lobi, reps, dil. And interesting these all deal with currency and no double confirmation step for them.

    I don't see how this warning of a in game item has anything to do with currency in the game. You already get your warning about the dil in game. As well as limits on any of the currency. No its not a pop up to keep you from doing something with your dil. But you seam to have side stepped the part about what and how the exchange was made.

    If i use something to do a job it was never built to do its not the items failure. The exchange was not built to be a bank for dil or a zen depository. And its not built to be a stock exchange for investment speculation on zen futures. And last but not least its not a dil transfer between toons in a account. Like most things sure you can use it for all the mentioned uses above. But there is no warranty if used for other purposes like anything else.

    Now if the buttons are bugged and its just depositing everything regardless of settings then that is a issue needing fixed. Otherwise its working as what it was built for.

    Its just my view take it or leave it for that matter ignore this post if you like. But i don't see a need to change something that works and spend dev time on fixing something that is not broke. i would rather bug fixing and content and QOL improving changes such as hit a button and get all the cards you have access to for the admiralty system.
    To be or not to be: B)
  • ltminns
    ltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    The OP said there was a problem with the way the buttons worked.

    Original release of the new Crafting System had no confirmation that you really wanted to spend (some 19k worth of) Dilitium to complete a (20 hour) project now. Now any early completion requires that confirmation.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • valoreah
    valoreah Member Posts: 11,007 Arc User
    How many people need a big red button pop up on there screen to save them from them self?

    As a programmer myself, in my experience a whole lot more than you think.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • forcemajeure
    forcemajeure Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    In regards to the whole "we don't need to spend dev time on fixing this issue" line of commentary:

    Refined dilithium is currency. It is fully exchangeable with Zen. I think it is rather more important to have a confirmation dialog on actual currency transactions than it is to say "Do you really want to remove this ship?".

    That said, it does not even need a dialog. "If CurrentDilBalance + WithdrawDilAmount > 10,000,000, then WithdrawDilAmount = 10,000,000 - CurrentDilBalance".

    Boom, done, fixed for all time with 5 minutes of "work". The fact that this was never in place is simply an indication of sloppy, careless programming. When you have a business, even if that business is an online game... the last thing you want to be doing is throwing peoples' currency away carelessly. It tends to make them stop buying.
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,541 Community Moderator
    That said, it does not even need a dialog. "If CurrentDilBalance + WithdrawDilAmount > 10,000,000, then WithdrawDilAmount = 10,000,000 - CurrentDilBalance".

    Boom, done, fixed for all time with 5 minutes of "work". The fact that this was never in place is simply an indication of sloppy, careless programming. When you have a business, even if that business is an online game... the last thing you want to be doing is throwing peoples' currency away carelessly. It tends to make them stop buying.

    Its not as easy as you make it out to be. Remember that we're talking coding here. One wrong keystroke borks the whole thing. You have to be EXTREMELY precise.

    Not only that... with something as integrated into other things as the DL exchange and currency caps... you could break the whole system or break something else connected to it. There was a time where whenever Cryptic would fix something, something totally unrelated to it would break because of the fix. Most common thing was the Borg liked to break whenever Cryptic fixed something. One time we had Spheres that turned into cannonballs because of SUPER Emergency Power to Engines. Literally shot them across the map like frickin' Sonic the Hedgehog! And we are STILL getting the occasional Invisitorp Instakills. Happily running around Infected tanking the Borg, got 100% hull and shield... and then YOU DIE instantly. No hit. No weapons fire. Just boom. And the combat log recorded a torpedo hit. Not a spread. Not a High Yield. A normal, ordinary, plasma torpedo. That just oneshot your cruiser like it was wet tissue paper.

    This is not a "five minutes of 'work'" thing. With code... there is no such thing. It is literally never that simple. Code is extremely complex, and things that LOOK simple... aren't.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • roguealltrek
    roguealltrek Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    In regards to the whole "we don't need to spend dev time on fixing this issue" line of commentary:

    Refined dilithium is currency. It is fully exchangeable with Zen. I think it is rather more important to have a confirmation dialog on actual currency transactions than it is to say "Do you really want to remove this ship?".

    That said, it does not even need a dialog. "If CurrentDilBalance + WithdrawDilAmount > 10,000,000, then WithdrawDilAmount = 10,000,000 - CurrentDilBalance".

    Boom, done, fixed for all time with 5 minutes of "work". The fact that this was never in place is simply an indication of sloppy, careless programming. When you have a business, even if that business is an online game... the last thing you want to be doing is throwing peoples' currency away carelessly. It tends to make them stop buying.

    Interesting use of the word careless last i checked the game did not toss my currency away. the game did not make anyone place the currency in the exchange. The game did not force a person to toss away anything. If careless is the case then its the careless actions of the player trying to use a system with clear limits and then calls it flawed when they lost.

    Making edits to the currency in the game can lead to wide spread errors and bugs in a system. And i don't wish to have bugs that start random editing of the currency and decide no one has zen or dil. Or sudden changes making the game start using a random generator to decide just what a person has each time they log in.

    All this is over a few players having lost do to being careless with there currency in the first place. And yes i use the word careless as its a much better word than others i can think of.

    If you are selling zen for dil then you have dil in the exchange draw it out and use it for what ever you planed on and decided was worth actual money to buy something. I can think of no reason a person would buy in excess of 10M dil at a time given costs are sub 2M at max.

    if you are buying zen with dil you have zen in the exchange and drawing it out is not possible to have it lost. And each player is limited to 10M dil so buying zen with that amount will not place more than the cap in the exchange.

    No one under either of these actual uses of the exchange with in the currency limits will cause a loss.
    To be or not to be: B)
  • valoreah
    valoreah Member Posts: 11,007 Arc User
    Making edits to the currency in the game can lead to wide spread errors and bugs in a system. And i don't wish to have bugs that start random editing of the currency and decide no one has zen or dil. Or sudden changes making the game start using a random generator to decide just what a person has each time they log in.

    You don't know for sure that any of that would happen. No one knows. The only people who can properly answer this question would be the Devs.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • rattler2
    rattler2 Member Posts: 55,541 Community Moderator
    valoreah wrote: »
    You don't know for sure that any of that would happen. No one knows. The only people who can properly answer this question would be the Devs.

    Pretty sure any player would want to err on the side of caution when it comes to ANYTHING regarding in game currency.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • roguealltrek
    roguealltrek Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Making edits to the currency in the game can lead to wide spread errors and bugs in a system. And i don't wish to have bugs that start random editing of the currency and decide no one has zen or dil. Or sudden changes making the game start using a random generator to decide just what a person has each time they log in.

    You don't know for sure that any of that would happen. No one knows. The only people who can properly answer this question would be the Devs.

    What question? You know your right i have no ideal what will happen when some one decides to go play with coding that is old and possibly not any one even here that made it. And some how i seam to have been under the mistaken view that messing with code is always fail proof and never causes random bugs in the code. And i forget that even remote and unrelated systems are never affected with changes.

    Nit pick all you want and bypass the cause of these loss by making use of something for a purpose not intended for in the first place. Where are these masses of players using the exchange to buy and sell that are effected and loosing currency? All i have seen of the players saying they lost is by using the exchange for storage and profiteering on speculation of the exchange pricing.

    And to say only the devs can answer what will happen i think we have seen that not even the devs can say for sure what will happen when there is a change in the code. And i don't want them wasting time and playing around with something that works as intended.

    This is my last post in this thread as i can see no one is interested in the facts that they used the exchange for something it was not built to do and lost. And by the way if this is a bug you know the buttons not working as intended that is for the bug report part of the forum may be this needs to be moved there.
    To be or not to be: B)
  • ltminns
    ltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    'You are in error. You did not discover your mistake. You have made two errors. You are flawed and imperfect and you have not corrected by sterilisation. You have made three errors...
    You are flawed and imperfect!'
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • valoreah
    valoreah Member Posts: 11,007 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    You know your right i have no ideal what will happen when some one decides to go play with coding that is old and possibly not any one even here that made it.

    Correct. You don't.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Pretty sure any player would want to err on the side of caution when it comes to ANYTHING regarding in game currency.

    Perhaps it's just me, but I would think most folk would want anything in-game having to do with real money they are spending to be correct....
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • crypticarmsman
    crypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,897 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    When you get rid of that Rare Mk II Quantum Torpedo that came with the Starter Pack a screen pops up requiring a typed entry to allow the deletion.

    When you want to release a Ship a dialog box appears wanting you to enter the name of your ship that you wish to release.

    When...

    I wish I could +1 this to infinity. :)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • locutusofcactus
    locutusofcactus Member Posts: 650 Arc User
    This happened to me once but for 190k dil.
  • lapprenticel
    lapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    Where'd this random issue come from? I noted in my original post that the toon cap is 10,000,000 but honestly that's not really relevant. The issue is that the Exchange dropped all its dilithium on a single toon contrary to my wishes which resulted in lost dilithium.

    I've reported the issue and its working its way through the support chain. As to when\how it'll be resolved we'll just have to wait and see.
    azrael605 wrote: »
    No acknowledgement from the OP of their error in thinking the refined dill cap wasn't shown anywhere?

  • forcemajeure
    forcemajeure Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @lapprenticel said:
    > Where'd this random issue come from? I noted in my original post that the toon cap is 10,000,000 but honestly that's not really relevant. The issue is that the Exchange dropped all its dilithium on a single toon contrary to my wishes which resulted in lost dilithium.
    >
    > I've reported the issue and its working its way through the support chain. As to when\how it'll be resolved we'll just have to wait and see.
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > No acknowledgement from the OP of their error in thinking the refined dill cap wasn't shown anywhere?

    My mistake, it was forcemajure who made that claim, the funky mobile quote function confused me on it sorry.

    Guess that makes you wrong twice then. What I actually said was "There is also no listing anywhere that I can find that even *says* there is a 10 mill refined Dil cap (per character)."

    I asked in my fleet first, nobody knew, only a couple on though. So I asked in a global channel I'm in, a dozen or so people on, nobody knew. So I checked around the Dilithium Exchange window, hit the "Withdraw" dialog again, nothing about a cap there.

    Googled it, nothing there. Checked the FAQ https://arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/3026713 , nothing there. Checked the old Silver vs Gold Member benefits, nothing there either https://sto.gamepedia.com/Free-to-Play

    The only place I can (now) find it listed, was mentioned earlier in the thread by people who made actually useful replies, and that is by hovering over your Dilithium balance area in the Inventory window.

    In 5+ years of playing STO on multiple characters, I have never actually had occasion to hover my tooltip over that area. You don't need to click there, you don't drag from it, you don't activate it or right-click it. The area I do click on occasionally is the 'Refine Dilithium' button, which does not show the limit info. Also, I rarely have to click on that either, since Life Sub means it refines automatically when I log in.

    So yeah... there are a lot of errors and incorrect assumptions in this thread, but my statement wasn't one of them.
  • leemwatson
    leemwatson Member Posts: 4,624 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Forcemajure, I was the first person in this thread to say that the refined dill cap was findable in the assets tab by hovering the mouse over the dilithium listing. I found that the first day I was playing STO, which is F2P launch day. You claimed it was not listed at all, you were wrong, I told you where it was before anyone else in this thread, the only mistake I made was misreading who made the mistaken claim. Maybe you should follow my example and go back and check.

    And I also said this, and like you, knew from day one of playing.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • ltminns
    ltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    I believe it was obvious that the OP was well aware of the 10,000,000 limit and was not violated intentionally but through some machinations of the buttons on the Exchange that caused the overflow.

    The 10,000,000 limit has been the subject of a few Threads in the last few years with people asking for it to be raised with the expected repartee from other Posters.

    My repartee in the past has usually been along this line:




    I believe I was the first to use that clip. :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • darkbladejk
    darkbladejk Member Posts: 3,306 Community Moderator
    it's apparent this thread has ran its course and is devolving. /thread
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
This discussion has been closed.