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Have a new ship idea.

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  • edxelledxell Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    If we were worrying about canon my main wouldn't be flying a Universe Temporal Heavy Dreadnought Cruiser. I support the inclusion of warship voyager. Make it an escort with lots of sci boff slots or something along those lines.
  • snowwolf#0563 snowwolf Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    I was going to comment on how this doesn't exist in our universe... Then I realized it's hard to explain the Galaxy X, which never even made an apperance in Star Trek Legacy for example.

    And considering we have the huge JJ Trek ship, I don't remember what it's called.. The black one? That's way bigger than a Galaxy Class Starship..

    So I guess warship Voyager would make sense... Just give it the same excuse the Galaxy X has in game? Upgraded for the enemies of the Federation..

    Considering the Galaxy X was introduced in STO for that very reason, being a beefed up version of the Galaxy Class I guess it would make sense other ships got upgrades too.. Like Intrepid (Voyager)... Yes it's unrealistic, but so is having the Galaxy X in the game anyway, and a lot of other weird things the game has...
  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,586 Arc User
    I was going to comment on how this doesn't exist in our universe... Then I realized it's hard to explain the Galaxy X, which never even made an apperance in Star Trek Legacy for example.

    And considering we have the huge JJ Trek ship, I don't remember what it's called.. The black one? That's way bigger than a Galaxy Class Starship..

    So I guess warship Voyager would make sense... Just give it the same excuse the Galaxy X has in game? Upgraded for the enemies of the Federation..

    Considering the Galaxy X was introduced in STO for that very reason, being a beefed up version of the Galaxy Class I guess it would make sense other ships got upgrades too.. Like Intrepid (Voyager)... Yes it's unrealistic, but so is having the Galaxy X in the game anyway, and a lot of other weird things the game has...

    It's actually quite easy to explain the Galaxy-X; it doesn't deviate that much from regular Starfleet ships (tri-nacelled ships aren't a new concept), and is something Starfleet could realisticlly develop independently of Q.

    The only similarities (the basic appearance and an underslung cannon) are also easily explained by Picard (who remembers the alternate timeline) mentioning when he makes a report of his experience to Starfleet.

    Warship Voyager has none of those justifications.
    tumblr_p7auh1JPC61qfr6udo4_500.gif
  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,586 Arc User
    I was going to comment on how this doesn't exist in our universe... Then I realized it's hard to explain the Galaxy X, which never even made an apperance in Star Trek Legacy for example.

    And considering we have the huge JJ Trek ship, I don't remember what it's called.. The black one? That's way bigger than a Galaxy Class Starship..

    So I guess warship Voyager would make sense... Just give it the same excuse the Galaxy X has in game? Upgraded for the enemies of the Federation..

    Considering the Galaxy X was introduced in STO for that very reason, being a beefed up version of the Galaxy Class I guess it would make sense other ships got upgrades too.. Like Intrepid (Voyager)... Yes it's unrealistic, but so is having the Galaxy X in the game anyway, and a lot of other weird things the game has...

    The Galaxy-X is very easy to justify; it's a design Starfleet could realisticlly create themselves as it doesn't deviate that much from their usual style and Picard would have mentioned it when making a report on his experiences to Starfleet.

    On the other side of the coin, Warship Voyager has even less possible justification than a future or mirror universe ship.
    tumblr_p7auh1JPC61qfr6udo4_500.gif
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    The problem with warship voyager is that the ideas just don't feel right. Theres no natural connection point like terminal expanse or yesterdays war that bridges to STOs story from that episode.
    See, stuff like that may seem like a problem for you, but Cryptic can just write a plot connection if they want to have one.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edxell wrote: »
    If we were worrying about canon my main wouldn't be flying a Universe Temporal Heavy Dreadnought Cruiser. I support the inclusion of warship voyager. Make it an escort with lots of sci boff slots or something along those lines.
    I think it should be an escort carrier. The episode specifically mentions "fighter-shuttles" as part of it's loadout, it should have a hangar.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    there is a natural connection point...i even gave it on the first page - time travel

    living witness ended with the backup copy of the doctor setting a course back to earth - so in STO, at some point along the way, he ran into a temporal anomaly that flung him all the way back to 2410/11 (whatever year we're in now) somewhere in federation space (because temporal anomalies don't just cross time, they cross space as well when needed for writer fiat - i seriously doubt admiral janeway let a pair of negh'vars chase her all the way to the delta quadrant before using that chrono-deflector, after all) where he's picked up by a passing alliance ship and brought back to earth, where they find in his databanks....all that data on 'warship' voyager - someone at SCE catches wind of it, a lightbulb goes off in their head and bingo: new ship for cryptic to sell​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,367 Arc User
    2xwwoezx0xa01.jpg
    Warship Voyager (VOY: "Living Witness") If it's onscreen, it's canon!
    STAR TREK
    lD8xc9e.png
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    Ah... but she was the product of faulty data recreation by a species in the Delta Quadrant. Not only that... it was WELL beyond the 25th Century, somewhere around 700 years, when The Doctor's backup module was activated and set the record straight.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Ah... but she was the product of faulty data recreation by a species in the Delta Quadrant. Not only that... it was WELL beyond the 25th Century, somewhere around 700 years, when The Doctor's backup module was activated and set the record straight.

    ahem...*rapidly taps the glass*
    there is a natural connection point...i even gave it on the first page - time travel

    living witness ended with the backup copy of the doctor setting a course back to earth - so in STO, at some point along the way, he ran into a temporal anomaly that flung him all the way back to 2410/11 (whatever year we're in now) somewhere in federation space (because temporal anomalies don't just cross time, they cross space as well when needed for writer fiat - i seriously doubt admiral janeway let a pair of negh'vars chase her all the way to the delta quadrant before using that chrono-deflector, after all) where he's picked up by a passing alliance ship and brought back to earth, where they find in his databanks....all that data on 'warship' voyager - someone at SCE catches wind of it, a lightbulb goes off in their head and bingo: new ship for cryptic to sell
    ​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • edxelledxell Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    there is a natural connection point...i even gave it on the first page - time travel

    living witness ended with the backup copy of the doctor setting a course back to earth - so in STO, at some point along the way, he ran into a temporal anomaly that flung him all the way back to 2410/11 (whatever year we're in now) somewhere in federation space (because temporal anomalies don't just cross time, they cross space as well when needed for writer fiat - i seriously doubt admiral janeway let a pair of negh'vars chase her all the way to the delta quadrant before using that chrono-deflector, after all) where he's picked up by a passing alliance ship and brought back to earth, where they find in his databanks....all that data on 'warship' voyager - someone at SCE catches wind of it, a lightbulb goes off in their head and bingo: new ship for cryptic to sell​​
    I forget the name but I'm sure I've played a series of missions in the foundry ages ago that had this exact plot. The backup Doctor went through a temporal anomaly and came back to the alpha quadrant in 2409 but he'd corrupted his program and started attacking Starfleet to free all the holograms.
    warpangel wrote:
    I think it should be an escort carrier. The episode specifically mentions "fighter-shuttles" as part of it's loadout, it should have a hangar.
    I forgot about that. Give it a hanger in that case. I think it should be a bit sciency because the original Intrepid is a sci ship. Maybe they could give it a standard tactical layout but have sensor analysis instead of an experimental weapon or something along those lines.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edxell wrote: »
    warpangel wrote:
    I think it should be an escort carrier. The episode specifically mentions "fighter-shuttles" as part of it's loadout, it should have a hangar.
    I forgot about that. Give it a hanger in that case. I think it should be a bit sciency because the original Intrepid is a sci ship. Maybe they could give it a standard tactical layout but have sensor analysis instead of an experimental weapon or something along those lines.

    Why?

    Nothing about that Voyager was accurate (well except for Janeway perhaps), and dispite it never having existed, it would not make sense to make a warship have traits of a sci ship.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,301 Arc User
    No one ever saw it because it never existed. The ship was incorrectly recreated in holographic form using faulty/corrupted data.

    Warship Voyager is not a real ship. You can travel to any point in time that you wish, it won't be there.

    It is possible that the Warship Voyager was actually a Terran Vessel that ended up in the wrong universe.
    Either way, Warship Voyager deserves a double thumbs up.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,367 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Ah... but she was the product of faulty data recreation by a species in the Delta Quadrant. Not only that... it was WELL beyond the 25th Century, somewhere around 700 years, when The Doctor's backup module was activated and set the record straight.

    Your line of reasoning is faulty. Let's take a look at another example of a ship that should not exist in the game, but does: The future Enterprise 1701-D from Star Trek: The Next Generation, Episode: TNG 277 - All Good Things; Part I.

    In an alternate timeline, influenced by Q and created via a spatial anomaly in the Neutral Zone, this version of the Enterprise-D came to the Pasteur's aid when that ship was under attack by a future design of Klingon vessel.
    HBnRK4r.jpg
    The Future USS Enterprise 1701-D, from a future that never existed, but is in the game Star Trek Online!

    The simple fact that we have the (non-existant) future three-nacelled 1701-D in STO is physical evidence that any ship seen on screen of any official Star Trek TV show or Movie is a valid prospect for being in any game that bears the name and blessing of Star Trek.
    STAR TREK
    lD8xc9e.png
  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,586 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    The fact that Q's timeline was erased is irrelevant. The multiverse is a thing in Star Trek and the Galaxy-X is a plausable enough Starfleet ship that it's believable for them to create it. Especially given that they should know about the design through Picard.

    People seem to forget that Q created the timeline, but Starfleet were the ones who made the ship and unlike Warship Voyager, it's believable as a design Starfleet could create by themselves (like they did in STO, where it has no relation to the alternate future Enterprise).

    It's no different to the millions of timelines we saw in Parallels which all had the Galaxy Class in.
    tumblr_p7auh1JPC61qfr6udo4_500.gif
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,238 Community Moderator
    edited December 2018
    Well, that was an alternate timeline that the Galaxy-X came from, yes. One possible future. One could argue that the Galaxy-X could still be developed, as it has in STO, in the prime timeline under similar conditions. If I remember correctly, in that timeline the Galaxy-X was developed due to the fallout between the Federation and Klingon Empire. Similarly in STO, we have the war between the Federation and Klingon Empire, so the Galaxy-X could've still been developed in response to that conflict. It doesn't need a report from Picard about his incident with Q to set those events in motion. The Galaxy-X could still have been a natural evolution of the ship type under similar conditions.

    I must say, though, I like the idea that Warship Voyager could've been an actual ship from the Terran Empire that ended up in the Prime Delta Quadrant rather than a misunderstanding of the actual Voyager.
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  • thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,367 Arc User
    7df7d79420806fd1bb3ee13ebabe9900.jpg
    The USS Rhode Island (NCC-72701) was a 25th century refit Nova-class Federation starship operated by Starfleet in an alternate timeline.


    The USS Rhode Island. Another example of a ship from an Alternate timeline that exists in the game Star Trek Online!

    Even though the original Nova-class from the 2370s was limited to a maximum warp factor of warp 8 and was considered a planetary research vessel, the Rhode Island was designed for long term deep space assignments.

    The Rhode Island was commanded by Captain Harry Kim, and assigned to a four-year exploration mission. In 2404, the Rhode Island defended Admiral Janeway's shuttlecraft when it came under attack by two Negh'Var warships. (VOY: "Endgame")

    =/\=

    The Warship Voyager too looks like a ship that could be a natural evolution of the class, just like Warship Enterprise with its huge phaser lance and primary hull mounted phaser cannons. All of these ships prop the others up, they do not exclude them. They are all on-screen models, and as such, are fully vested as proper and undisputed canon.

    There are many more examples that could be given of ships that "should not" exist in STO, but they do. Take a look at the Enterprise-J for example.

    Respectfully, you should realize Warship Voyager is just as valid a candidate for the game as any other ship we now have available to us.
    STAR TREK
    lD8xc9e.png
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    thetanine wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Ah... but she was the product of faulty data recreation by a species in the Delta Quadrant. Not only that... it was WELL beyond the 25th Century, somewhere around 700 years, when The Doctor's backup module was activated and set the record straight.

    Your line of reasoning is faulty. Let's take a look at another example of a ship that should not exist in the game, but does: The future Enterprise 1701-D from Star Trek: The Next Generation, Episode: TNG 277 - All Good Things; Part I.

    In an alternate timeline, influenced by Q and created via a spatial anomaly in the Neutral Zone, this version of the Enterprise-D came to the Pasteur's aid when that ship was under attack by a future design of Klingon vessel.
    HBnRK4r.jpg
    The Future USS Enterprise 1701-D, from a future that never existed, but is in the game Star Trek Online!

    The simple fact that we have the (non-existant) future three-nacelled 1701-D in STO is physical evidence that any ship seen on screen of any official Star Trek TV show or Movie is a valid prospect for being in any game that bears the name and blessing of Star Trek.

    Your line of reasoning is also faulty, as we saw the first steps towards the Galaxy X upgrade in Deep Space Nine - Way of the warrior.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    tyler002 wrote: »
    People seem to forget that Q created the timeline, but Starfleet were the ones who made the ship and unlike Warship Voyager, it's believable as a design Starfleet could create by themselves (like they did in STO, where it has no relation to the alternate future Enterprise).
    What's so unbelievable about Warship Voyager? All it had was a few extra bumps and bulges on an Intrepid-class. It was far less dramatic a transformation than the Super-Armor Voyager in the finale.
  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,586 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    warpangel wrote: »
    tyler002 wrote: »
    People seem to forget that Q created the timeline, but Starfleet were the ones who made the ship and unlike Warship Voyager, it's believable as a design Starfleet could create by themselves (like they did in STO, where it has no relation to the alternate future Enterprise).
    What's so unbelievable about Warship Voyager? All it had was a few extra bumps and bulges on an Intrepid-class. It was far less dramatic a transformation than the Super-Armor Voyager in the finale.

    How is 30 torpedo tubes, 25 phaser arrays and a wing of fighters and assault probes a smaller change than an extra layer of armour? Where are they going to fit all the launchers, the torpedo supply and the fighters for them on a ship that size without using Tardis technology?

    The thing has more launchers than the Scimitar with far smaller internal space, not enough to make it plausible. Not even dedicated Starfleet Warships like the Defiant are even remotely like Warship Voyager; the description of it reads as a parody of a Terran Empire ship rather than something that's meant to be taken seriously.
    tumblr_p7auh1JPC61qfr6udo4_500.gif
  • thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,367 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    anazonda wrote: »
    thetanine wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Ah... but she was the product of faulty data recreation by a species in the Delta Quadrant. Not only that... it was WELL beyond the 25th Century, somewhere around 700 years, when The Doctor's backup module was activated and set the record straight.

    Your line of reasoning is faulty. Let's take a look at another example of a ship that should not exist in the game, but does: The future Enterprise 1701-D from Star Trek: The Next Generation, Episode: TNG 277 - All Good Things; Part I.

    In an alternate timeline, influenced by Q and created via a spatial anomaly in the Neutral Zone, this version of the Enterprise-D came to the Pasteur's aid when that ship was under attack by a future design of Klingon vessel.
    HBnRK4r.jpg
    The Future USS Enterprise 1701-D, from a future that never existed, but is in the game Star Trek Online!

    The simple fact that we have the (non-existant) future three-nacelled 1701-D in STO is physical evidence that any ship seen on screen of any official Star Trek TV show or Movie is a valid prospect for being in any game that bears the name and blessing of Star Trek.

    Your line of reasoning is also faulty, as we saw the first steps towards the Galaxy X upgrade in Deep Space Nine - Way of the warrior.

    What? The fact that you just posted that tells me you don't know very much about Star Trek. Here are the facts of what you're trying to pass off as valid to this discussion, from Memory Alpha, http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Way_of_the_Warrior_(episode)#Act_Three:
    ACT THREE of THE WAY of the WARRIOR
    Worf immediately goes to see Captain Sisko to introduce himself and report for duty. When he meets the captain, Sisko offers condolences for the loss of the USS Enterprise-D in battle, calling it a good ship.

    As we who have seen the Star Trek movies know, the Enterprise-D is destroyed at Veridian III. That ship's replacement is the Enterprise-E, a Sovereign class starship. A Sovereign class starship is not an alternate future Enterprise-D!
    STAR TREK
    lD8xc9e.png
  • thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,367 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    tyler002 wrote: »
    People seem to forget that Q created the timeline, but Starfleet were the ones who made the ship and unlike Warship Voyager, it's believable as a design Starfleet could create by themselves (like they did in STO, where it has no relation to the alternate future Enterprise).
    What's so unbelievable about Warship Voyager? All it had was a few extra bumps and bulges on an Intrepid-class. It was far less dramatic a transformation than the Super-Armor Voyager in the finale.

    Yeah that's my thinking too. What people forget about this game is that it's a Theme Park, not an all-encompassing mmo. In fact, I'd argue it's not even an mmo, but a single-player online game. I like single-player online games! =D
    STAR TREK
    lD8xc9e.png
  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,586 Arc User
    I think he's referring to the Galaxy Class ships like the USS Venture that had phaser strips on the nacelles, which they later forgot to put on the CGI models. They were the same type as was seen on the Galaxy-X, though flipped around to face the opposite direction.
    tumblr_p7auh1JPC61qfr6udo4_500.gif
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    tyler002 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    tyler002 wrote: »
    People seem to forget that Q created the timeline, but Starfleet were the ones who made the ship and unlike Warship Voyager, it's believable as a design Starfleet could create by themselves (like they did in STO, where it has no relation to the alternate future Enterprise).
    What's so unbelievable about Warship Voyager? All it had was a few extra bumps and bulges on an Intrepid-class. It was far less dramatic a transformation than the Super-Armor Voyager in the finale.

    How is 30 torpedo tubes, 25 phaser arrays and a wing of fighters and assault probes a smaller change than an extra layer of armour? Where are they going to fit all the launchers, the torpedo supply and the fighters for them on a ship that size without using Tardis technology?

    The thing has more launchers than the Scimitar with far smaller internal space, not enough to make it plausible. Not even dedicated Starfleet Warships like the Defiant are even remotely like Warship Voyager; the description of it reads as a parody of a Terran Empire ship rather than something that's meant to be taken seriously.
    The real Voyager has at least 18 (most likely 19) phasers. It's number of torpedo tubes is unknown, but it has launchers at 5 positions of which at least the front ones have multiple tubes each (and also had extra side-facing launchers installed for the nanoprobe torpedoes in "Scorpion" without issue). The ammo storage for either version was never discussed. The difference really isn't that much, nor at all implausible.

    Adding words to make the shuttles and probes it already carries more combat-oriented doesn't change their size either. In fact, Voyager's shuttles were more than a match for your typical delta quadrant fighters entirely as they were.

    The most significant numeric change was giving it a complement of 300 troops, but that is actually a very modest increase at 2x the original crew. Compare to for example the Ent-D's 6x wartime complement in "Yesterday's Enterprise," which was still plausible given the absurdly spacious crew quarters.

    Don't forget Warship Voyager was made as propaganda, not as a cartoon. If it was intended to be believable in-universe. A wildly over-the-top exaggeration would have been immediately debunked by their political opponents. And the point was never Voyager's technical specs anyway, but it's actions. So while they did overestimate it's combat capabilites while filling in the blanks in their incomplete data, there would've been no reason to intentionally make up an impossible amount of weapons that weren't even used in their faux historical scenario.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    thetanine wrote: »
    anazonda wrote: »
    thetanine wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Ah... but she was the product of faulty data recreation by a species in the Delta Quadrant. Not only that... it was WELL beyond the 25th Century, somewhere around 700 years, when The Doctor's backup module was activated and set the record straight.

    Your line of reasoning is faulty. Let's take a look at another example of a ship that should not exist in the game, but does: The future Enterprise 1701-D from Star Trek: The Next Generation, Episode: TNG 277 - All Good Things; Part I.

    In an alternate timeline, influenced by Q and created via a spatial anomaly in the Neutral Zone, this version of the Enterprise-D came to the Pasteur's aid when that ship was under attack by a future design of Klingon vessel.
    HBnRK4r.jpg
    The Future USS Enterprise 1701-D, from a future that never existed, but is in the game Star Trek Online!

    The simple fact that we have the (non-existant) future three-nacelled 1701-D in STO is physical evidence that any ship seen on screen of any official Star Trek TV show or Movie is a valid prospect for being in any game that bears the name and blessing of Star Trek.

    Your line of reasoning is also faulty, as we saw the first steps towards the Galaxy X upgrade in Deep Space Nine - Way of the warrior.

    What? The fact that you just posted that tells me you don't know very much about Star Trek. Here are the facts of what you're trying to pass off as valid to this discussion, from Memory Alpha, http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Way_of_the_Warrior_(episode)#Act_Three:
    ACT THREE of THE WAY of the WARRIOR
    Worf immediately goes to see Captain Sisko to introduce himself and report for duty. When he meets the captain, Sisko offers condolences for the loss of the USS Enterprise-D in battle, calling it a good ship.

    As we who have seen the Star Trek movies know, the Enterprise-D is destroyed at Veridian III. That ship's replacement is the Enterprise-E, a Sovereign class starship. A Sovereign class starship is not an alternate future Enterprise-D!

    You're funny... How entertaining.

    The Venture took the first steps towards the galaxy X, with the additional Phaserstrips on the Nacells....

    But hey... good job about pointing out how little you know about Trek... ;)
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,586 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    warpangel wrote: »
    tyler002 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    tyler002 wrote: »
    People seem to forget that Q created the timeline, but Starfleet were the ones who made the ship and unlike Warship Voyager, it's believable as a design Starfleet could create by themselves (like they did in STO, where it has no relation to the alternate future Enterprise).
    What's so unbelievable about Warship Voyager? All it had was a few extra bumps and bulges on an Intrepid-class. It was far less dramatic a transformation than the Super-Armor Voyager in the finale.

    How is 30 torpedo tubes, 25 phaser arrays and a wing of fighters and assault probes a smaller change than an extra layer of armour? Where are they going to fit all the launchers, the torpedo supply and the fighters for them on a ship that size without using Tardis technology?

    The thing has more launchers than the Scimitar with far smaller internal space, not enough to make it plausible. Not even dedicated Starfleet Warships like the Defiant are even remotely like Warship Voyager; the description of it reads as a parody of a Terran Empire ship rather than something that's meant to be taken seriously.
    The real Voyager has at least 18 (most likely 19) phasers. It's number of torpedo tubes is unknown, but it has launchers at 5 positions of which at least the front ones have multiple tubes each (and also had extra side-facing launchers installed for the nanoprobe torpedoes in "Scorpion" without issue). The ammo storage for either version was never discussed. The difference really isn't that much, nor at all implausible.

    Adding words to make the shuttles and probes it already carries more combat-oriented doesn't change their size either. In fact, Voyager's shuttles were more than a match for your typical delta quadrant fighters entirely as they were.

    The most significant numeric change was giving it a complement of 300 troops, but that is actually a very modest increase at 2x the original crew. Compare to for example the Ent-D's 6x wartime complement in "Yesterday's Enterprise," which was still plausible given the absurdly spacious crew quarters.

    Don't forget Warship Voyager was made as propaganda, not as a cartoon. If it was intended to be believable in-universe. A wildly over-the-top exaggeration would have been immediately debunked by their political opponents. And the point was never Voyager's technical specs anyway, but it's actions. So while they did overestimate it's combat capabilites while filling in the blanks in their incomplete data, there would've been no reason to intentionally make up an impossible amount of weapons that weren't even used in their faux historical scenario.

    The Intrepid had 13 phaser arrays and 5 torpedo launchers. Again, where is it going to keep the torpedo supply for 30 launchers with the limited space they have? And between a torpedo supply large enough to supply an entire fleet of Voyagers and a population of troops over double the size of the crew of the real Voyager, where are they going to keep a wing of fighters and assault drones?

    The larger crew size was the least significant change, given Starfleet ships can usually carry more people than their default crew size. A ship of Voyagers size could handle any of the 3 things individually (though the fighters and torpedoes would require gutting part of the ship to expand the relevant storage areas) but there isn't enough space for all of them at once.

    Who would disprove it; the Voyager crew who had been dead for centuries or the people who were born centuries after Voyager left? The entire reason the curator of the museum was so hostile was because that was their history; they were being serious with "The Voyager Encounter".

    Of course there's a reason to make an impossible number of weapons; the story got distorted and exaggerated over time, as legends typically do when they survive for long enough without accurate data.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    tyler002 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    tyler002 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    tyler002 wrote: »
    People seem to forget that Q created the timeline, but Starfleet were the ones who made the ship and unlike Warship Voyager, it's believable as a design Starfleet could create by themselves (like they did in STO, where it has no relation to the alternate future Enterprise).
    What's so unbelievable about Warship Voyager? All it had was a few extra bumps and bulges on an Intrepid-class. It was far less dramatic a transformation than the Super-Armor Voyager in the finale.

    How is 30 torpedo tubes, 25 phaser arrays and a wing of fighters and assault probes a smaller change than an extra layer of armour? Where are they going to fit all the launchers, the torpedo supply and the fighters for them on a ship that size without using Tardis technology?

    The thing has more launchers than the Scimitar with far smaller internal space, not enough to make it plausible. Not even dedicated Starfleet Warships like the Defiant are even remotely like Warship Voyager; the description of it reads as a parody of a Terran Empire ship rather than something that's meant to be taken seriously.
    The real Voyager has at least 18 (most likely 19) phasers. It's number of torpedo tubes is unknown, but it has launchers at 5 positions of which at least the front ones have multiple tubes each (and also had extra side-facing launchers installed for the nanoprobe torpedoes in "Scorpion" without issue). The ammo storage for either version was never discussed. The difference really isn't that much, nor at all implausible.

    Adding words to make the shuttles and probes it already carries more combat-oriented doesn't change their size either. In fact, Voyager's shuttles were more than a match for your typical delta quadrant fighters entirely as they were.

    The most significant numeric change was giving it a complement of 300 troops, but that is actually a very modest increase at 2x the original crew. Compare to for example the Ent-D's 6x wartime complement in "Yesterday's Enterprise," which was still plausible given the absurdly spacious crew quarters.

    Don't forget Warship Voyager was made as propaganda, not as a cartoon. If it was intended to be believable in-universe. A wildly over-the-top exaggeration would have been immediately debunked by their political opponents. And the point was never Voyager's technical specs anyway, but it's actions. So while they did overestimate it's combat capabilites while filling in the blanks in their incomplete data, there would've been no reason to intentionally make up an impossible amount of weapons that weren't even used in their faux historical scenario.

    The Intrepid had 13 phaser arrays and 5 torpedo launchers. Again, where is it going to keep the torpedo supply for 30 launchers with the limited space they have? And between a torpedo supply large enough to supply an entire fleet of Voyagers and a population of troops over double the size of the crew of the real Voyager, where are they going to keep a wing of fighters and assault drones?
    No, Voyager has been seen firing phasers from 18 weapons. Of which one was on the right nacelle which implies a matching un-fired weapon on the left one for 19. It has been seen firing torpedoes from 5 positions standard, plus the side-mount tubes installed for "Scorpion." The forward launchers have fired multiple tubes, I don't recall if the rear and ventral launchers are seen firing multiples or only singles. The total number of tubes is unspecified.

    Again, the size of torpedo storage was never mentioned for either the real or the fictional Voyager. The number of shuttles was not mentioned for either version (although 10-17 shuttles were lost during Voyager's run through the DQ, they may have built some of them midway like they did the Delta Flyer, rather than bring them all with them from the beginning). Twice the normal crew would just be a matter of putting in bunks instead of single beds in the absurdly spacious crew quarters, something that any reasonably war-focused operator would do as standard.

    Where do you get this idea that Voyager had limited space anyway? According to Memory-Alpha, the Intrepid is 344m long with 15 decks. A crew of about 150 is extremely small for a ship that size (I mean come on, that's 10 people per deck). That's why they can have those luxurious private quarters, huge empty corridors and everything. They could even spare 7 of 9 a whole cargo bay all to herself. The kyrians assumed a slightly less...frivolous usage for all that room.

    A real life aircraft carrier of that size would have a crew of thousands and nearly 100 aircraft.
    Who would disprove it; the Voyager crew who had been dead for centuries or the people who were born centuries after Voyager left? The entire reason the curator of the museum was so hostile was because that was their history; they were being serious with "The Voyager Encounter".
    And nobody would've taken it seriously if the setup wasn't reasonably possible.
    Of course there's a reason to make an impossible number of weapons; the story got distorted and exaggerated over time, as legends typically do when they survive for long enough without accurate data.
    The ship wasn't built on legends, they had original data, that's how they got the backup Doctor as well. It just wasn't entirely complete, so they had to make some educated guesses with some details. And since they assumed it was a warship those guesses tended to be combat-oriented.
  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,586 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    tyler002 wrote: »
    The Intrepid had 13 phaser arrays and 5 torpedo launchers. Again, where is it going to keep the torpedo supply for 30 launchers with the limited space they have? And between a torpedo supply large enough to supply an entire fleet of Voyagers and a population of troops over double the size of the crew of the real Voyager, where are they going to keep a wing of fighters and assault drones?
    No, Voyager has been seen firing phasers from 18 weapons. Of which one was on the right nacelle which implies a matching un-fired weapon on the left one for 19. It has been seen firing torpedoes from 5 positions standard, plus the side-mount tubes installed for "Scorpion." The forward launchers have fired multiple tubes, I don't recall if the rear and ventral launchers are seen firing multiples or only singles. The total number of tubes is unspecified.
    Sorry, the Voyager model has exactly 13 phaser arrays and 5 torpedo launchers. You seem to have been counting sfx mistakes and multiple shots from the same array and getting more weapons than the ship actually has.
    warpangel wrote: »
    Again, the size of torpedo storage was never mentioned for either the real or the fictional Voyager. The number of shuttles was not mentioned for either version (although 10-17 shuttles were lost during Voyager's run through the DQ, they may have built some of them midway like they did the Delta Flyer, rather than bring them all with them from the beginning). Twice the normal crew would just be a matter of putting in bunks instead of single beds in the absurdly spacious crew quarters, something that any reasonably war-focused operator would do as standard.

    Where do you get this idea that Voyager had limited space anyway? According to Memory-Alpha, the Intrepid is 344m long with 15 decks. A crew of about 150 is extremely small for a ship that size (I mean come on, that's 10 people per deck). That's why they can have those luxurious private quarters, huge empty corridors and everything. They could even spare 7 of 9 a whole cargo bay all to herself. The kyrians assumed a slightly less...frivolous usage for all that room.

    A real life aircraft carrier of that size would have a crew of thousands and nearly 100 aircraft.
    The original number of torpedoes wasn't specified (The Cloud said they have only have 38 available torpedoes 6 episodes into the series and can't replace them), but the ship only has so much space in it and the crew mentioning their inability to replace them says they have to store them somewhere as that means they weren't making them on the fly.

    The more space you fill up, the less you have left to use. Fill up the ship with torpedoes and you force. Just 2 volleys from 30 launchers would be 60 torpedoes gone, at minimum, and the ship would deplete its supplies extremely fast unless that had a lot of them. They would need to devote a lot of space to storing them and reduce the space left for everything else. Shuttles and fighters are the same, except they'd need a lot more space than torpedoes (they'd need more storage space per craft and the facilities to support them).

    Aircraft carriers are floating airbases, with a lot of space dedicated to aircraft and things related to them with the crew packed in like sardines. Warship Voyager was portrayed as an aircraft carrier, warship, torpedo gunboat and troop transport all at once (and that's just the stuff we know about).
    warpangel wrote: »
    tyler002 wrote: »
    Who would disprove it; the Voyager crew who had been dead for centuries or the people who were born centuries after Voyager left? The entire reason the curator of the museum was so hostile was because that was their history; they were being serious with "The Voyager Encounter".
    And nobody would've taken it seriously if the setup wasn't reasonably possible.
    You clearly don't know how dumb people can be, even WITH facts available and an education. The real-life existence of breatharians, urine therapy and bible literalists should tell you just how wrong that view is...
    warpangel wrote: »
    tyler002 wrote: »
    Of course there's a reason to make an impossible number of weapons; the story got distorted and exaggerated over time, as legends typically do when they survive for long enough without accurate data.
    The ship wasn't built on legends, they had original data, that's how they got the backup Doctor as well. It just wasn't entirely complete, so they had to make some educated guesses with some details. And since they assumed it was a warship those guesses tended to be combat-oriented.
    That's how legends work; you start with a basic bit of knowledge, which then grows and distorted over time as people twist the facts, adding their own ideas and (whether intentional or not) 'revising' history. End result of centuries of such misinformation and fabrication is a story with little more than a superficial similarity to the original.
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