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KDF disinvestment tangent

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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    After the initial storylines are over, all the "factions" play exactly the same. Sure, some offer larger ship lists but that's generally only relevant for collecting Admiralty cards. Almost all faction ships made in recent years are more or less copypasted for everyone with minimal differences (cloaks, "can mount dual cannons," singularity cores, few points difference in some stat or another). The ones that aren't, still get their consoles and traits boxed up and made available for the other factions (for a fraction of the price of the ship).

    So yeah, if you like to collect huge list of Admiralty cards, Fed-Rom's the ticket. Otherwise, it's pretty much down to what kind of backstory you want your character to have and what kind of clothes you want your character to wear?

    And the simple fact is the answer to that for most players is Starfleet.

    the term you're looking for, is "Homogenized". Everyone, regardless of their supposed 'Faction' ends up being a Starfleet officer in all but name.

    There's a reason for this, of course. as I said, Cryptic doesn't have (and never had, and likely never will have) the resources to do anything else with the line. They seriously do NOT have the resources to develop the game in any other way-they don't have the manpower, money, time, or necessary permissions from CBS to build their own canon for aspects like the Klingon Empire, Romulans, or Dominion-they're neither inclined, nor allowed to develop those factions beyond "Starfleet's Sidekick" and whatever has been explicitly already done in the canon.

    Futher, as you've noted above; by choosing Starfleet/Federation (or more particularly Federation aligned Romulan) a player gets everything, gameplay-wise, that KDF players get (aside from a few low-level adventures as Starfleet's pawn in the empire and some long-not-updated costume options), while also retaining everything Federation players get, plus better stats over-all.

    there's literally no draw for anyone who wasn't already a Klingon Fan, nor is there gameplay variety to stimulate interest in the less populated F(r)actions. No draw in terms of story, game mechanics, or options/alterations to gameplay. Instead, there are very good reasons to stick with Starfleet's pet Romulan, including superior gameplay mechanics, the ability to really, really, really buff your admiralty stack for fast dilithium earning, and access to everything game-mechanics-wise that you would have from either of the 'main' factions, PLUS better options in doffing and larger fleets and player population.
    But why should there be? What's wrong with players being allowed to freely choose their "faction" based on who they're a fan of or what kind of story they want to play, without locking themselves in to some kind of permanent gameplay consequences in the process?

    "Homogenization" is good. It gives players the flexibility to combine the origin story they like with the gameplay they like. And stuff like the uneven ship lists are only a side-effect of said homogenization being incomplete. If they ever get to finish what they've started, everyone would have the same ship list, too. All the ships.
  • lordmerc22lordmerc22 Member Posts: 776 Arc User
    Yes KDF is neglected, not more than Romulans right now(when did they last get a romulan ship? - fly the ship of your allies probably meant no more new Rom ships) and while Dominion chars are new they wont be getting anything while discovery runs it seems.

    5 of my 6 toons are KDF and it is fun - I dont feel the need to make any Fed/Disco toon but there are things that are plainly bad. Ships are more rare on this side, TOS characters were only Fed while it would be a great theme to have both old Klingon and Romulan options, Disco is Fed only - they could had made a part where you play the story as a klingon taking part in this war. Also on the mission you travel to the future where most races meet to sign a treaty for time travel, you meet romulans, fed and every minor race - you dont meet a klingon represantive but you instead find a klingon that represents the federation. Aka the story they tell there is that KDF doesnt exist in the future and is absorbed by the Federation. That to me is even worse than the lack of some ships - because we just play Federation storyline.

    Still KDF is fun and I like their ships better than the Fed ones, and unlike the popular belief in the forums there are still active armadas too but dont expect most people to check forums - they could grow better with right attention - starting from a less unified storyline. Obviously making things for more sides takes more time, but rushing content is never good. Discovery brought so many bugs into the game because it was so much rushed after ViL. I would rather them take their time and delivered more complete updates and bigger more enticing and multi facet(depending on side) storylines. Its offtopic but also our choices dont have much impact - like you save or not the ferengi on the old dominion domination arc doesnt give you something different in the future. Same on nimbus III when you got the option to capture and kill the orion guy or the alien you encounter in the nexus.


    Finally ships can sell anytime - the flagships pack may had been made long ago and was expensive prob to make and maybe didnt do as many sales they expected in limited time but it was paid once (for development) and still people buy it - I know people who bought it recently for KDF side on black friday sales. Also speaking of ships, have you ever noticed how many ships are same made into a different name and adjusted to fit a new tier? Why not instead have scaling ships that scale till tier 5 for free and from tier 6(and beyond if they ever release more tiers) to pay a zen item for leveling it. Would save a lot of time for devs and space on our roster
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    After the initial storylines are over, all the "factions" play exactly the same. Sure, some offer larger ship lists but that's generally only relevant for collecting Admiralty cards. Almost all faction ships made in recent years are more or less copypasted for everyone with minimal differences (cloaks, "can mount dual cannons," singularity cores, few points difference in some stat or another). The ones that aren't, still get their consoles and traits boxed up and made available for the other factions (for a fraction of the price of the ship).

    So yeah, if you like to collect huge list of Admiralty cards, Fed-Rom's the ticket. Otherwise, it's pretty much down to what kind of backstory you want your character to have and what kind of clothes you want your character to wear?

    And the simple fact is the answer to that for most players is Starfleet.

    the term you're looking for, is "Homogenized". Everyone, regardless of their supposed 'Faction' ends up being a Starfleet officer in all but name.

    There's a reason for this, of course. as I said, Cryptic doesn't have (and never had, and likely never will have) the resources to do anything else with the line. They seriously do NOT have the resources to develop the game in any other way-they don't have the manpower, money, time, or necessary permissions from CBS to build their own canon for aspects like the Klingon Empire, Romulans, or Dominion-they're neither inclined, nor allowed to develop those factions beyond "Starfleet's Sidekick" and whatever has been explicitly already done in the canon.

    Futher, as you've noted above; by choosing Starfleet/Federation (or more particularly Federation aligned Romulan) a player gets everything, gameplay-wise, that KDF players get (aside from a few low-level adventures as Starfleet's pawn in the empire and some long-not-updated costume options), while also retaining everything Federation players get, plus better stats over-all.

    there's literally no draw for anyone who wasn't already a Klingon Fan, nor is there gameplay variety to stimulate interest in the less populated F(r)actions. No draw in terms of story, game mechanics, or options/alterations to gameplay. Instead, there are very good reasons to stick with Starfleet's pet Romulan, including superior gameplay mechanics, the ability to really, really, really buff your admiralty stack for fast dilithium earning, and access to everything game-mechanics-wise that you would have from either of the 'main' factions, PLUS better options in doffing and larger fleets and player population.
    But why should there be? What's wrong with players being allowed to freely choose their "faction" based on who they're a fan of or what kind of story they want to play, without locking themselves in to some kind of permanent gameplay consequences in the process?

    "Homogenization" is good. It gives players the flexibility to combine the origin story they like with the gameplay they like. And stuff like the uneven ship lists are only a side-effect of said homogenization being incomplete. If they ever get to finish what they've started, everyone would have the same ship list, too. All the ships.

    I'll take a stab at this one:

    Diversity.

    Homogenization breeds single-meta-thinking. When everyone has access to all the same things, there will emerge a 'best' design, be it captains, ship setups, ground gear, whatever, and once players all have those they need not invest further in the game.

    By creating very different factions, none of which possess all the keys to the perfect meta, an enforced roll-over is created as players experiment with tweaking that least little bit of performance improvement out of their build. This causes players to engage in a never-ending quest for 'better' which requires Dil and Marks farming and Zen purchases.

    Homogenization is the road to stagnation. Contentment seems like a laudable goal, but it really is another word for stagnation. There are two paths to stagnation in a game: give players nothing they want, and give players everything they want. According to patricngo's thesis, the KDF has already achieved stagnation via developer neglect. Now they seem to wish to achieve it on the Federation side as well via homogenization.

    STO is an old game. As games go it's been fairly long-lived and successful. The sure way to kill it is to take away anything that makes characters unique. When everyone is Captain Kirk, there's nothing special about being Captain Kirk.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited December 2018
    brian334 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    After the initial storylines are over, all the "factions" play exactly the same. Sure, some offer larger ship lists but that's generally only relevant for collecting Admiralty cards. Almost all faction ships made in recent years are more or less copypasted for everyone with minimal differences (cloaks, "can mount dual cannons," singularity cores, few points difference in some stat or another). The ones that aren't, still get their consoles and traits boxed up and made available for the other factions (for a fraction of the price of the ship).

    So yeah, if you like to collect huge list of Admiralty cards, Fed-Rom's the ticket. Otherwise, it's pretty much down to what kind of backstory you want your character to have and what kind of clothes you want your character to wear?

    And the simple fact is the answer to that for most players is Starfleet.

    the term you're looking for, is "Homogenized". Everyone, regardless of their supposed 'Faction' ends up being a Starfleet officer in all but name.

    There's a reason for this, of course. as I said, Cryptic doesn't have (and never had, and likely never will have) the resources to do anything else with the line. They seriously do NOT have the resources to develop the game in any other way-they don't have the manpower, money, time, or necessary permissions from CBS to build their own canon for aspects like the Klingon Empire, Romulans, or Dominion-they're neither inclined, nor allowed to develop those factions beyond "Starfleet's Sidekick" and whatever has been explicitly already done in the canon.

    Futher, as you've noted above; by choosing Starfleet/Federation (or more particularly Federation aligned Romulan) a player gets everything, gameplay-wise, that KDF players get (aside from a few low-level adventures as Starfleet's pawn in the empire and some long-not-updated costume options), while also retaining everything Federation players get, plus better stats over-all.

    there's literally no draw for anyone who wasn't already a Klingon Fan, nor is there gameplay variety to stimulate interest in the less populated F(r)actions. No draw in terms of story, game mechanics, or options/alterations to gameplay. Instead, there are very good reasons to stick with Starfleet's pet Romulan, including superior gameplay mechanics, the ability to really, really, really buff your admiralty stack for fast dilithium earning, and access to everything game-mechanics-wise that you would have from either of the 'main' factions, PLUS better options in doffing and larger fleets and player population.
    But why should there be? What's wrong with players being allowed to freely choose their "faction" based on who they're a fan of or what kind of story they want to play, without locking themselves in to some kind of permanent gameplay consequences in the process?

    "Homogenization" is good. It gives players the flexibility to combine the origin story they like with the gameplay they like. And stuff like the uneven ship lists are only a side-effect of said homogenization being incomplete. If they ever get to finish what they've started, everyone would have the same ship list, too. All the ships.

    I'll take a stab at this one:

    Diversity.

    Homogenization breeds single-meta-thinking. When everyone has access to all the same things, there will emerge a 'best' design, be it captains, ship setups, ground gear, whatever, and once players all have those they need not invest further in the game.

    By creating very different factions, none of which possess all the keys to the perfect meta, an enforced roll-over is created as players experiment with tweaking that least little bit of performance improvement out of their build. This causes players to engage in a never-ending quest for 'better' which requires Dil and Marks farming and Zen purchases.

    Homogenization is the road to stagnation. Contentment seems like a laudable goal, but it really is another word for stagnation. There are two paths to stagnation in a game: give players nothing they want, and give players everything they want. According to patricngo's thesis, the KDF has already achieved stagnation via developer neglect. Now they seem to wish to achieve it on the Federation side as well via homogenization.

    STO is an old game. As games go it's been fairly long-lived and successful. The sure way to kill it is to take away anything that makes characters unique. When everyone is Captain Kirk, there's nothing special about being Captain Kirk.
    Faction-locking doesn't do any of those things.

    There will always be a best design. Faction-locking just means some players aren't allowed to use it. It doesn't "enforce" any kind of "roll-over" or require players to get any better. A piece of cake game is a piece of cake game and it doesn't suddenly start demanding any more of players if a few random trinkets are arbitrarily restricted. What it does enforce is inequality, one of the factions will be the "best" one by virtue of being the one that includes the best build.

    Yes, I agree Cryptic is giving players everything too easy. But faction-locking would actually make it worse, because if a given goal is not allowed for a given player at all, that's just one less thing the player has to do. What would help is creation of better stuff for players to acquire (actually better, not just "options" that are only ever clearly superior to previous "options" by accident and subject to "fixing" once players have adopted them), and matching content that requires better stuff to win (which, obviously, would mean giving up on the Easy Mode "everyone can win everything" -policy, so not bloody likely). And then adjusting the amount of effort, skill and/or luck required to get the stuff such that the developers can keep up creating new things as the players exhaust the old.

    Things don't become any more unique or special by making them available to "only" half the players, either. Things are made unique and special by making them rare, expensive and/or hard to get. That gold-plated ferengi ship they gave some players at some point, that we still don't know the exact criteria for, that's unique and special. Faction-locked stuff is not.
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    Poor implementation of factions is not diversity.

    The factions should be rock-paper-scissors. (Or rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock.) Meaning that all choices are equally viable, but have different approaches and different play philosophies. None should be the ultimate choice, or give the broadest range of options, or have the best gear, or have the six must-have devices that make a character uber.

    The fact that the factions are not, as currently implemented, equally viable choices is the problem, and doing more of what screwed things up is the wrong direction to go, in my opinion.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    brian334 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    After the initial storylines are over, all the "factions" play exactly the same. Sure, some offer larger ship lists but that's generally only relevant for collecting Admiralty cards. Almost all faction ships made in recent years are more or less copypasted for everyone with minimal differences (cloaks, "can mount dual cannons," singularity cores, few points difference in some stat or another). The ones that aren't, still get their consoles and traits boxed up and made available for the other factions (for a fraction of the price of the ship).

    So yeah, if you like to collect huge list of Admiralty cards, Fed-Rom's the ticket. Otherwise, it's pretty much down to what kind of backstory you want your character to have and what kind of clothes you want your character to wear?

    And the simple fact is the answer to that for most players is Starfleet.

    the term you're looking for, is "Homogenized". Everyone, regardless of their supposed 'Faction' ends up being a Starfleet officer in all but name.

    There's a reason for this, of course. as I said, Cryptic doesn't have (and never had, and likely never will have) the resources to do anything else with the line. They seriously do NOT have the resources to develop the game in any other way-they don't have the manpower, money, time, or necessary permissions from CBS to build their own canon for aspects like the Klingon Empire, Romulans, or Dominion-they're neither inclined, nor allowed to develop those factions beyond "Starfleet's Sidekick" and whatever has been explicitly already done in the canon.

    Futher, as you've noted above; by choosing Starfleet/Federation (or more particularly Federation aligned Romulan) a player gets everything, gameplay-wise, that KDF players get (aside from a few low-level adventures as Starfleet's pawn in the empire and some long-not-updated costume options), while also retaining everything Federation players get, plus better stats over-all.

    there's literally no draw for anyone who wasn't already a Klingon Fan, nor is there gameplay variety to stimulate interest in the less populated F(r)actions. No draw in terms of story, game mechanics, or options/alterations to gameplay. Instead, there are very good reasons to stick with Starfleet's pet Romulan, including superior gameplay mechanics, the ability to really, really, really buff your admiralty stack for fast dilithium earning, and access to everything game-mechanics-wise that you would have from either of the 'main' factions, PLUS better options in doffing and larger fleets and player population.
    But why should there be? What's wrong with players being allowed to freely choose their "faction" based on who they're a fan of or what kind of story they want to play, without locking themselves in to some kind of permanent gameplay consequences in the process?

    "Homogenization" is good. It gives players the flexibility to combine the origin story they like with the gameplay they like. And stuff like the uneven ship lists are only a side-effect of said homogenization being incomplete. If they ever get to finish what they've started, everyone would have the same ship list, too. All the ships.

    I'll take a stab at this one:

    Diversity.

    Homogenization breeds single-meta-thinking. When everyone has access to all the same things, there will emerge a 'best' design, be it captains, ship setups, ground gear, whatever, and once players all have those they need not invest further in the game.

    By creating very different factions, none of which possess all the keys to the perfect meta, an enforced roll-over is created as players experiment with tweaking that least little bit of performance improvement out of their build. This causes players to engage in a never-ending quest for 'better' which requires Dil and Marks farming and Zen purchases.

    Homogenization is the road to stagnation. Contentment seems like a laudable goal, but it really is another word for stagnation. There are two paths to stagnation in a game: give players nothing they want, and give players everything they want. According to patricngo's thesis, the KDF has already achieved stagnation via developer neglect. Now they seem to wish to achieve it on the Federation side as well via homogenization.

    STO is an old game. As games go it's been fairly long-lived and successful. The sure way to kill it is to take away anything that makes characters unique. When everyone is Captain Kirk, there's nothing special about being Captain Kirk.
    Faction-locking doesn't do any of those things.

    There will always be a best design. Faction-locking just means some players aren't allowed to use it. It doesn't "enforce" any kind of "roll-over" or require players to get any better. A piece of cake game is a piece of cake game and it doesn't suddenly start demanding any more of players if a few random trinkets are arbitrarily restricted. What it does enforce is inequality, one of the factions will be the "best" one by virtue of being the one that includes the best build.

    Yes, I agree Cryptic is giving players everything too easy. But faction-locking would actually make it worse, because if a given goal is not allowed for a given player at all, that's just one less thing the player has to do. What would help is creation of better stuff for players to acquire (actually better, not just "options" that are only ever clearly superior to previous "options" by accident and subject to "fixing" once players have adopted them), and matching content that requires better stuff to win (which, obviously, would mean giving up on the Easy Mode "everyone can win everything" -policy, so not bloody likely). And then adjusting the amount of effort, skill and/or luck required to get the stuff such that the developers can keep up creating new things as the players exhaust the old.

    Things don't become any more unique or special by making them available to "only" half the players, either. Things are made unique and special by making them rare, expensive and/or hard to get. That gold-plated ferengi ship they gave some players at some point, that we still don't know the exact criteria for, that's unique and special. Faction-locked stuff is not.

    Ahem... "You're wrong."

    Premium Giveaways are premium giveaways. That's just 'stuff', that solid gold Ferengi ship doesn't make playing the game better, it's just this un-earned 'thing' tossed out like a key-fob at a convention, basically having less significance than a participation trophy handed out at an elementary school field-day. That's right, less significance than a purple ribbon, because it was randomly spammed out to people who may not even be playing the game anymore, as an enticement to get them to come back.

    That's not "Unique and Special" it's "Desperate and kind of lame".

    "I didn't get one so it's just 'stuff' with no significance." :p

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Thing is you really don't need to have all the things in the game. And most of the bellyaching about the state of the KDF is pining for things Feds have. It's this weird discordance between wanting all the things the Feds have while also wanting to be unique and different...
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Thing is you really don't need to have all the things in the game. And most of the bellyaching about the state of the KDF is pining for things Feds have. It's this weird discordance between wanting all the things the Feds have while also wanting to be unique and different...
    What 'stuff'??

    do you mean, perhaps, "Ship traits that actually work?" Because yeah, the DROP (Delta Rising Operations Pack) gave the KDF the only two unique traits they would get, neither of which actually worked when it released, one of which finally got working because ti was going into a lockbox for Federation players as a boobieprize. (the other one, the one for the Qib? still doesn't work) meanwhile, the Seven ships Fed players got, all those traits work, and work together.

    So if you're talking about that, sure...
    You mean the ones that are now account unlocks that all of my KDF characters can use without mastering the ship?

    I was actually thinking about how people used to whine about wanting better KDF science ships. Well, those exist now.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Raider? you mean the Aquarius garbage? Battlecruiser? Not sure if you're talking about the Chel Grett or what....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • sarvour0sarvour0 Member Posts: 382 Arc User
    My KDF mains were made in they before times; the clunky age of the Alpha Build of the KDF Faction, which had to be temporarily suspended before it was relaunched, in a slightly different format.
    Not only are they still 'mains' in todays much larger roster of characters, but I have added more supporting characters and even a few new mains/alt-mains on the KDF side.

    I recently started my own KDF Fleet. My Cardassian Captains & BOffs are all pre-ViL, and some of them are proudly serving in the KDF.

    I personally have a massive wish list of ships & other content I want added for KDF, but not having it (yet) is not diminishing my experience. That KDF side seems to have more ongoing bugs is a bit of a pain, but I try to not let it get to me.

    Is the glass half empty, or half full?

    That said, when are they going to fix KDF Warp VFX? Ships disappear immediately, as the vfx animation & sound begin.
    4073703.jpg
    [SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards[/SIGPIC]Sarvour Shipyards
    =A=Commodore Joshua Daniel Sarvour, S.C.E.
    U.S.S. AKAGI NX-93347, Enterprise-class Battle Cruiser =A= U.S.S. T'KORA'S WRATH NX-110047, Odyssey-class Battle Cruiser

    "There Ain't No Grave, Can Hold My Body Down..."

    PS - I fully support a T6 Nova, fixing the Nova skins. I am also rooting for a T6 Science Cruiser, that can use Nova/Rhode Island skins.
    T6 Nova/Rhode Island, T6 Oberth & T6 Constellation are needed. Also needed a T6 Science Cruiser, that can wear any Science or Cruiser skin.
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy: Convince everyone that Klingon is a bad choice, because there's not enough players and not enough dev support; People then don't choose Klingon and it goes round and round.
    But it's not a prophecy at all, it's the current state of the game. There are significantly less players and less dev support on KDF. What else are we supposed to say, lie to new players about it?
    Lie? playing KDF IS FUN! Telling newbies otherwise IS lying!!!!

    Fun is subjective. Game is written from a Fed point of view. You have a KDF faction with a bunch of races that would never act like a Klingon or Fed but they mouth off all these lines due to storyline... it sucks so much.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    That particular cycle was started by the devs and has been perpetuated by them with each revolution of the wheel, the players only keep it rotating and can't do anything to change the direction.

    Pick whatever class and whatever faction you want, words like optimal shouldn't come into the equation. Personally I find tacs really rather bland and one dimensional, sci on the other hand is much more interesting even if they suffer from having been the "healer" in the old days when sto tied them into the unholy trinity of mmo's.

    You are the only one who dictates what you find fun.

    There were faction differences to take note of but those were wayyyy back in the day. Long before Tier 6 and Delta Rising existed, before even that.

    Cloaks and especially Battle Cloaks were a big deal for the KDF before the Roms arrived. Most especially so when there was still KDF vs Fed PVP going on. The Roms get far superior Cloak access, Battle Cloaks at the minimum all around. That's not a problem in itself. But then the Roms we find out were a sub-faction. So now we had Fed-Roms with Battle Cloaks. Anyways. The value of Cloaks has diminished with the ever-dwindling PVP. Cloaks don't really have a major benefit in PVE like it does in PVP.

    Universal BOFF Stations. Do you remember when Universal BOFF stations were only found on the Birds of Prey of the KDF? I still do. And that was a highly demanded item from Feds to get access to. Now everyone has access to Universal Stations. There are even Non-KDF Raiders with tons of Universal seats, and of course, they are more heavily armed and sturdier than BOPs.

    Battlecruisers. High agility Cruisers with the ability to slot DHCs as an option. That was what differentiated KDF Cruisers from Fed Cruisers. Fed Cruisers by tradition did not do DC / DHCs. Battlecruisers did not necessarily mean a LtCmdr TAC Station. We were spanking Feds with Lt TAC Negh'Vars and Lt + Ens TAC Vor'Chas. Fed Cruisers had the same Tactical Station layouts as KDF. It was the agility of KDF Battlecruisers and DC / DHC capability that Feds wanted.

    And they got it, in the form of the Fed Avenger Battlecruiser.

    Carriers. The KDF were the original faction with Carriers in STO. The Vo'Quv was the only Carrier and then the KDF get the C-Store Kar'Fi. If a Fed wanted a Carrier, they needed to fork out for the JHDC. Then the Atrox came out, and the Jupiter in Tier 6 years later. Hell, the KDF still doesn't have a Tier 6 Carrier unless it forks out big. The Vo'Quv and Kar'Fi still have not transitioned into Tier 6.

    Oh, speaking of Kar'Fi, the console it comes with? It doesn't even form a Set Bonus with the new event ship, another Fek'Ihri ship. The new ship is ONLY the 2nd ever ship from this race ever put into the game, and it doesn't even make a set bonus with the first ever. But this isn't the first time. The T6 Multi-Mission SCI Vessels / "Vesta" cross faction releases? The new Gorn ships don't even have a set bonus with the T5 Varanus Repair Platform.

    There's also been an interesting trend with many of these newer "KDF Battlecruisers" that don't behave like KDF Battlecruisers and can't even use DC / DHC weapons. They are all in effect, Fed Cruisers.

    There's all kinds more of oversights (evidence nobody understands the KDF in Cryptic), loss of uniqueness to the faction over the years.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Every mission, every situation, every storyline, you're doing things exactly the way a Starfleet officer has to do them. Borrowing a used, second-hand cloaking device? Having to run uncloaked on a covert operation? none of this is a "Klingon" storyline, it's a FEDERATION story where KDF players are 'permitted to cosplay being Starfleet officers'.

    TRIBBLE, even in ground situations, you really expect a KDF General Officer to accept being lectured on the Prime Directive by a mouthy, junior, foreign, officer (Kobali ground)? without offering so much as a rebuke? This is akin to expecting a Hordie to stand there and accept being lectured about the wonders of the Alliance and the superiority of humans, in that Blizzard property.
    This argument only works if you stereotype all Klingons into acting exactly the same way, and their all idiotically headstrong warriors who can't even take someone saying something they disagree with without getting snippy. Which is entirely untrue.

    Your entire argument of "it isn't Klingon" is "its not my one dimensional and utterly wrong view of how Klingons should act!"

    Actually, Som, you're wrong-even in real life, a junior officer mouthing off their political opinions at a General Officer in a disrespectful tone (as happens in the Kobali mission) would face consequences to their career, and that includes "Relief for cause".

    It's called "Conduct Unbecoming", particularly as said mouthing off wasn't invited by said General Officer.

    so no, it's not stereotyping, it's a matter of professionalism in a joint operations environment, but the player isn't even given the option of rebuking verbally, in spite of being an officer from a service that employs, per canon, "Corporeal Correction" being addressed (Uninvited) in a tone (Disrespectful) by a significantly lower ranking officer in a combat zone.
    Actually, the only thing Captain Prime Directive says to the Player Character is "I see" after you tell her of the stasis pods. Her lectures are addressed to Captain Kim.

    Of course, it still would've been most appropriate to allow us a chance to tell her off anyway. Regardless of your origin. She is, after all, badly misapplying the Prime Directive so even a Starfleet Admiral should be correcting her.
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