I "think" that perhaps they were implying that the Vaadwaur were similar to Romulans or non-logic-ified Vulcans in that they were/are a very arrogant, proud, intelligent and (perhaps excessively) Xenophobic/Ethnocentric species and not averse to conquering/enslaving what they considered "lesser" species, though not precisely what one would call "evil". Much like the Romulan evolution from generic "bad guy" to a more complex species.
I don't think they were trying to say that Vaadwaur are in any way "genetically" linked to Vulcans. (JMO)
I agree that they seem more like Cardies really.
I havne't seen one of these in space yet, though I don't visit faction hubs very often, so it'll be interesting to see what the hard core players can get out of it. Of course, that's until Cryptic realise what they've created, and then nerf it into mediocrity.
the old Vaadwaur consoles can not be slotted on this ship !!!
If so, then that's a bug. The Astika's console has already been updated to have an entire set of bonuses that get used when slotted on the juggernaut.
It IS a bit lazy that the new vaadwaur ship's console doesn't extend the set bonus... or participate in it. The last two promo ship additions had consoles that either added to a console set, or were added to when more ships came out (Tzen-Tar and Vedcrid). This one just adds a stand-alone console to a set of ships that have a 2-piece console set from the other two ships.
Jette talked about this in the live stream. Most ships would never be able to complete the set, so she decided it'd be better to just leave them separate.
For clarification - you can equip the Vaadwaur Astika and Manasa consoles on the Juggernaut. That is why, as mentioned, the Astika's console has been updated to have a unique effect while slotted on the Juggernaut.
I was referring on the stream to why they're not in a set. Because the Juggernaut console can be equipped on any ship, while the Astika and Manasa consoles cannot, we didn't want players to feel like they were missing out if they equipped the Juggernaut console on a different ship and couldn't complete the set.
The biggest thing I noticed was that Juggernaut is not just part of the name of the ship, it's a new ship class, this isn't one of the cruiser or carrier classes, it's has it's own star ship mastery package for example, fewer device slots then cruisers and so on.
I will be interesting to see what future Juggernauts bring to the table.
Indeed, Juggernaut is a new ship type. This is the first one, and the only one so far.
Fascinating ship. So "Juggernaut" ships are what, Tac Cruisers? Dreadnought Raiders? While it isn't on my 'must have' list or wishlist, I would not mind giving one a try.
The progression from Cruisers to Battlecruisers to Warships to Escorts is fairly well defined - at each step, the ship tends to get more tactically oriented in the bridge officer layout, and at each step, the ships tend to lose hull and shields while gaining maneuverability.
Juggernauts don't fit on that progression at all. While share some design similarities with cruisers and some with escorts, they lack any of the averaging or meeting in the middle that normally happens in ship type crossovers.
Juggernauts as a ship type are defined by a bridge officer layout with a clear tactical focus and a noticeable secondary focus towards engineering abilities, combined with a compliment of 8 weapons, and survivability and lack of maneuverability that would make most cruiser jealous.
To contrast mechanics with other ship types, they don't have the Cruiser's commands, the Dreadnought's hangar bays, the Escort's Experimental Weapon, or really anything a Science Vessel could offer, but they manage to make up for all of those in their own way.
The bonuses intrinsic with being a Miracle Worker primary ship emphasize some of the defining strong points of a Juggernaut, as do with the Miracle Worker and Intelligence specializations in general, but that doesn't mean a Juggernaut couldn't use any of the other specializations in the future.
I was referring on the stream to why they're not in a set. Because the Juggernaut console can be equipped on any ship, while the Astika and Manasa consoles cannot, we didn't want players to feel like they were missing out if they equipped the Juggernaut console on a different ship and couldn't complete the set.
STO already plays mix-and-match with restricted consoles and unrestricted consoles in at least three sets I can think of (Alliance Multi-Mission Systems, Command Platforms, Flagship Technologies).. which means there are plenty of instances of people slotting consoles of sets they can't complete.
Having no extended set bonus just makes Vaadwaur ships a weaker overall choice than other ship series' that have a strong 3-piece set of bonuses. It's not like people who would opt to field the Juggernaut console on a non-vaadwaur ship are losing out by not having the set since it's presently not contributing to any set, rather than contributing to a set they can't complete on a non-vaadwaur ship.
The only serious issue I can see is that the 2-piece Vaadwaur bonus applies to one of the existing two consoles... and thus would be a bonus that was irrelevant if someone was slotting the Juggernaut and Astika consoles. A simple solution there would be to add an additional 2-piece bonus that affects one of the other two... like having the Juggernaut console decrease the Jug Array CD by 2 seconds instead of 1 (which would still make the CD reduction underwhelming, but its something!).
To contrast mechanics with other ship types, they don't have the Cruiser's commands, the Dreadnought's hangar bays, the Escort's Experimental Weapon, or really anything a Science Vessel could offer, but they manage to make up for all of those in their own way.
Which way is that, exactly? I can totally relate to defining them on what they lack, but what are they making up for it with? The Juggernaut Array is mostly a for-fun oddity rather than a serious benefit - it is manually-targeted and fires a slow-moving attack that includes a repel - your team would mostly let out a long, suffering sigh when you used it if you had much hope of hitting things. The damage is high compared to, say, torpedoes... but not high enough to one-shot shielded hangar pets, and has a 2 minute CD.
What would go well with the concept of a Juggernaut high-offense, slow-moving ship would be a mechanic in which one of three modes is selected: Balanced (normal), Frontal (Forward 90 degrees), Broadside (Left and Right 90 degrees). In Frontal and Broadside modes attacks made in the selected arcs gain a multiplicative damage boost, while other arcs take a comparable penalty. Once a mode is selected, changing modes has a cooldown... possibly one that is reduced by 1 second each time damage is taken from an arc that is not gaining a boost (or no Cd reduction in balanced mode).
The Juggernaut Array is just not worth the loss of cruiser commands, a hangar bay, or an experimental weapon.
From the E.E. 'Doc' Smith Lensman series, it would be classed a Mauler.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Fascinating ship. So "Juggernaut" ships are what, Tac Cruisers? Dreadnought Raiders? While it isn't on my 'must have' list or wishlist, I would not mind giving one a try.
The progression from Cruisers to Battlecruisers to Warships to Escorts is fairly well defined - at each step, the ship tends to get more tactically oriented in the bridge officer layout, and at each step, the ships tend to lose hull and shields while gaining maneuverability.
Juggernauts don't fit on that progression at all. While share some design similarities with cruisers and some with escorts, they lack any of the averaging or meeting in the middle that normally happens in ship type crossovers.
Juggernauts as a ship type are defined by a bridge officer layout with a clear tactical focus and a noticeable secondary focus towards engineering abilities, combined with a compliment of 8 weapons, and survivability and lack of maneuverability that would make most cruiser jealous.
A cruiser chats with a battlecruiser: ...And it has eight weapons and survivability that'll make any of us jealous!
Battlecruiser: Not only that, but it has such a lack of maneuverability that it's trying to make us look bad, to boot!
For clarification - you can equip the Vaadwaur Astika and Manasa consoles on the Juggernaut. That is why, as mentioned, the Astika's console has been updated to have a unique effect while slotted on the Juggernaut.
on tribble i can not slot them!! char name e.s31@garaks31
A cruiser chats with a battlecruiser: ...And it has eight weapons and survivability that'll make any of us jealous!
Battlecruiser: Not only that, but it has such a lack of maneuverability that it's trying to make us look bad, to boot!
Both the cruiser and battlecruiser have eight weapons themselves, so I don't see them being all that envious of that... what they're turning green over must be the 5/3 layout with an especially low turn rate to make the frontal arc focus tougher to use effectively!
This, combined with the Europa's 3-tac "battlecruiser" setup, makes me think they've started designing new ships via random number generator, making them "balance" according to a formula rather than any consideration of practical play. A 0.1 increase in hull and/or shield modifier is not going to translate into significant survivability differences.
Especially not when you can just look at the Borg and your Shields are down.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Intel on the LTC Eng would've interfered with Aux2Bat setups.
Uh oh, Daniels hasn't taken you through temporal orientation yet... luckily, you're only from 2014, so it won't take you too much time to acclimate to the modern era.
Uh oh, Daniels hasn't taken you through temporal orientation yet... luckily, you're only from 2014, so it won't take you too much time to acclimate to the modern era.
A2B is once again the meta method of CDR. Especially with the Cold Hearted trait from last year's winter event ship leaving A2B as the only ability that can proc it on most ships.
Comments
I don't think they were trying to say that Vaadwaur are in any way "genetically" linked to Vulcans. (JMO)
I agree that they seem more like Cardies really.
I havne't seen one of these in space yet, though I don't visit faction hubs very often, so it'll be interesting to see what the hard core players can get out of it. Of course, that's until Cryptic realise what they've created, and then nerf it into mediocrity.
For clarification - you can equip the Vaadwaur Astika and Manasa consoles on the Juggernaut. That is why, as mentioned, the Astika's console has been updated to have a unique effect while slotted on the Juggernaut.
I was referring on the stream to why they're not in a set. Because the Juggernaut console can be equipped on any ship, while the Astika and Manasa consoles cannot, we didn't want players to feel like they were missing out if they equipped the Juggernaut console on a different ship and couldn't complete the set.
Indeed, Juggernaut is a new ship type. This is the first one, and the only one so far.
The progression from Cruisers to Battlecruisers to Warships to Escorts is fairly well defined - at each step, the ship tends to get more tactically oriented in the bridge officer layout, and at each step, the ships tend to lose hull and shields while gaining maneuverability.
Juggernauts don't fit on that progression at all. While share some design similarities with cruisers and some with escorts, they lack any of the averaging or meeting in the middle that normally happens in ship type crossovers.
Juggernauts as a ship type are defined by a bridge officer layout with a clear tactical focus and a noticeable secondary focus towards engineering abilities, combined with a compliment of 8 weapons, and survivability and lack of maneuverability that would make most cruiser jealous.
To contrast mechanics with other ship types, they don't have the Cruiser's commands, the Dreadnought's hangar bays, the Escort's Experimental Weapon, or really anything a Science Vessel could offer, but they manage to make up for all of those in their own way.
The bonuses intrinsic with being a Miracle Worker primary ship emphasize some of the defining strong points of a Juggernaut, as do with the Miracle Worker and Intelligence specializations in general, but that doesn't mean a Juggernaut couldn't use any of the other specializations in the future.
STO already plays mix-and-match with restricted consoles and unrestricted consoles in at least three sets I can think of (Alliance Multi-Mission Systems, Command Platforms, Flagship Technologies).. which means there are plenty of instances of people slotting consoles of sets they can't complete.
Having no extended set bonus just makes Vaadwaur ships a weaker overall choice than other ship series' that have a strong 3-piece set of bonuses. It's not like people who would opt to field the Juggernaut console on a non-vaadwaur ship are losing out by not having the set since it's presently not contributing to any set, rather than contributing to a set they can't complete on a non-vaadwaur ship.
The only serious issue I can see is that the 2-piece Vaadwaur bonus applies to one of the existing two consoles... and thus would be a bonus that was irrelevant if someone was slotting the Juggernaut and Astika consoles. A simple solution there would be to add an additional 2-piece bonus that affects one of the other two... like having the Juggernaut console decrease the Jug Array CD by 2 seconds instead of 1 (which would still make the CD reduction underwhelming, but its something!).
Which way is that, exactly? I can totally relate to defining them on what they lack, but what are they making up for it with? The Juggernaut Array is mostly a for-fun oddity rather than a serious benefit - it is manually-targeted and fires a slow-moving attack that includes a repel - your team would mostly let out a long, suffering sigh when you used it if you had much hope of hitting things. The damage is high compared to, say, torpedoes... but not high enough to one-shot shielded hangar pets, and has a 2 minute CD.
What would go well with the concept of a Juggernaut high-offense, slow-moving ship would be a mechanic in which one of three modes is selected: Balanced (normal), Frontal (Forward 90 degrees), Broadside (Left and Right 90 degrees). In Frontal and Broadside modes attacks made in the selected arcs gain a multiplicative damage boost, while other arcs take a comparable penalty. Once a mode is selected, changing modes has a cooldown... possibly one that is reduced by 1 second each time damage is taken from an arc that is not gaining a boost (or no Cd reduction in balanced mode).
The Juggernaut Array is just not worth the loss of cruiser commands, a hangar bay, or an experimental weapon.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It was disposable income and I was curious.
Just FYI.
A cruiser chats with a battlecruiser: ...And it has eight weapons and survivability that'll make any of us jealous!
Battlecruiser: Not only that, but it has such a lack of maneuverability that it's trying to make us look bad, to boot!
on tribble i can not slot them!! char name e.s31@garaks31
Both the cruiser and battlecruiser have eight weapons themselves, so I don't see them being all that envious of that... what they're turning green over must be the 5/3 layout with an especially low turn rate to make the frontal arc focus tougher to use effectively!
This, combined with the Europa's 3-tac "battlecruiser" setup, makes me think they've started designing new ships via random number generator, making them "balance" according to a formula rather than any consideration of practical play. A 0.1 increase in hull and/or shield modifier is not going to translate into significant survivability differences.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Intel on the LTC Eng would've interfered with Aux2Bat setups.
Uh oh, Daniels hasn't taken you through temporal orientation yet... luckily, you're only from 2014, so it won't take you too much time to acclimate to the modern era.
A2B is once again the meta method of CDR. Especially with the Cold Hearted trait from last year's winter event ship leaving A2B as the only ability that can proc it on most ships.