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Borg Drones need a Buff!

For years the Borg ground TFO's have been laughably easy and broken thanks to the prevalence of Kinetic and Physical damage weapons that entirely ignore shields, which in turn have devalued the 3-piece Omega Task Force ground sets.
This needs to change, especially if we are ever to have meaningful "Elite" versions of Infected, Cure and Kithomer. And i think the simplest way to do that would be to buff the kinetic and physical damage resistance on the drones, sky high.
While they should not be immune to those damage types, it should be enough at a disadvantage that bothering to remodulate energy weapons should be worthwhile and lead to faster kills.

That's my thoughts on the matter, and I really would like to see the Borg ground TFO's returned to their former glory, once against requiring some thought rather than rushing in with TR-116's blazing.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q

Comments

  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,345 Community Moderator
    You already deal far less damage to them up front than if you were using a straight energy weapon. The trade off of the TRs is that they bypass the shields yes, but they deal much less damage per shot than something like the Omega 3 piece you made mention of. It seems like the TRs will actually do more because they don't have to worry about remodulating like you have to worry about with the energy based weapons. The problem you're going to have is we've seen on screen examples of just how vulnerable the Borg are to kinetic type damage and melee weapons. When Worf was fighting them with his Mek'leth he was tearing through them like a hot knife through butter. When Picard let loose with that Tommy Gun on the holodeck it shredded those drones. Simply because you have a TR doesn't automatically mean you will win and complete everything either. If you're not careful, especially on elite, they can still hand you your butt on a silver plate. On screen fights have shown the Borg to be at a disadvantage to kinetic type damage and weaponry and they should continue to be at a disadvantage. Keep in mind that when dealing with kinetic damage you're dealing with not just the kinetic energy but also the physical projectile itself as well.

    Simply nerfing the damage people are able to deal to the Borg by lowering the damage on the TR or buffing their kinetic resist isn't going to magically make people want to use things like the Omega gear again. If anything it will make folks hate those queues and not want to do them. If you want folks to use those other sets again then those sets themselves need to be given something to make them more appealing.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    I disagree. The TR-116B as well as other kinetic/physical ranged weapons are an anomaly that broke Borg ground content.
    Yes you could always use melee, however that always came with the risk of assimilation.
    Even though your doing less damage per hit with physical and kinetic ranged weapons, its still more than enough to breeze through the content, and bypasses the intended gameplay mechanic entirely.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,345 Community Moderator
    The big problem you're going to have is that jacking up the resists to give the edge to energy weapons vs the Borg would contradict on screen canon, which won't sit well with alot of people. We've seen several examples of the Borg getting rolled by Worf with a Mek'leth, and especially when Picard let loose with the Tommy Gun. It didn't one shot them just as the TR doesn't one shot in game, but they definitely felt it. The game is also set in 2411 I believe it is now, so it's not unreasonable to assume that Starfleet keeps some TRs on hand just incase the Borg pop up again. A squad of MACOs firing TRs against the Borg would be hard for them to contend with. Lore wise it would make no sense for them to suddenly be super resistant to physical and kinetic weapons when the show contradicts it. The transphasic torps would be the exception to that rule since they were basically enough to one shot a cube. obviously we wouldn't want that in game. Transphasics still do a great deal of damage to the Borg as they should, but they don't one shot.

    It's not bypassing mechanics at all, but 2 things working as intended interacting with each other. The TR from the get go was designed to bypass shields completely. Because it's a complete shield bypass it was given less damage per shot as the trade off. Otherwise folks would only ever use the TR in all content if it had as much damage per shot as an energy weapon. Energy weapons still have the edge overall, the only down side is they need to remodulate, otherwise they would roll stuff even faster than the TRs. Bypassing content to me suggests that someone is using some kind of an exploit that shouldn't be there to get an advantage they otherwise shouldn't have. TRs don't fall into that category as their shield bypass is working as intended. This means that it's not awarding an illegitimate advantage, it simply means that the game has evolved and that the Borg queues could possibly use a face lift.

    I get what you're trying to say, I just don't agree with the methods. Nerfs aren't going to sit well with people and if it's too easy other objectives and such could be introduced.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    Lore should never stand in the way of gameplay.

    But if you really want to go there...
    The Borg have learned and adapted from encounters with physical based weaponry, their exoplating is comprised of more durable materials and has kinetic energy dissipating properties, much like modern day kevlar and gel armor.
    And even ancient plate armor can prevent a blade from cutting through.

    And it most definitely is not working as intended.
    Originally the TR-116B had significantly lower shield penetration, but it was buffed to make it ignore shields entirely on account of a vocal minority that whined it was "useless". Instead it became overpowered like mad for Borg content.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
  • giliongilion Member Posts: 686 Arc User
    I kinda have to agree that the TRs feel a bit more overpowered than intended. When they first came out, IGA took a good 15-20min to complete using MACO and Omega gear. Once the TRs came out every team I joined had those and absolutely steam rolled the mission. I had the old Bunker Kit to keep the drones away and it felt useless after the TRs came out.

    However I do understand CBS has a real hard on about keeping to the lore (despite what they did with Disco but whatever) so how about a compromise. I know on screen we see them being really weak to it, but I think that's only because the Borg was VERY rarely punched in the face. Honestly, other than Worf, how many people engaged the Borg in melee combat? I think the only reason they never adapted before was because so few races used kinetic weapons. But the Borg arent dumb, if groups of MACOs with TRs storm the Unimatrix, they're gonna find someway to counter and not just role over.

    An idea I've had for a while is let the Borg adapt, in a sense to kinetic damage. But, just having it be treated like any other weapon or damage type is boring and not fun, so how about this: instead of being completely immune they gain a boost to kinetic resistance, it takes a LOT longer for them to adapt to it, but when they do, it's permanent. Im thinking something like if you use kinetic weapons, when your about 70% through an average mission is when they adapt to it. So you could decide to start the mission with Omega rep gear and save your kinetic weapons for the boss, or plow through the trash and then switch it up for the boss. Or you can continue to use kinetic weapons despite the resist.

    The problem is that Borg don't have that much health, when adapting was introduced I think they redid how much health they have so that with adaptations they only take a little longer to kill than other enemy groups. But, at the time we only had melee kinetic weapons so rushing them with a bat'leth was a risk since they could assimilate you. The TRs however, negate that risk.
    _____________________________________________________
    Anyone want to give me a Temporal Heavy Dreadnought pack? I'll be your friend :D
  • roguealltrekroguealltrek Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    I agree that the borg need some work and bringing them back up to par with current standards is called for but i disagree with the alteration of items just to have them stronger.

    The borg now on normal and advanced tfo's adapt to energy weapons this is true but they die when hitting 0 health. I myself remember a time regardless of the firepower used they could not die that way and required you to kill the node first to disconnect them. It took tactics of targeting the nodes. And required working as a team drawing the borg to narrow areas killing them off from cover and even retreating as the borg would follow you all the way back to the start if need be they were relentless and heavy hitters.

    Also if you took to long to take them down the sets of borg spawn back in there place and you had to redo all your progress if some one in your team spawned back at the start rather than work as a team and letting you revive them.

    Kit powers have went off the charts with slotting what ever you want making your own kits and powers the borg were never built to face.

    But just upping the hit points and reducing a weapons effect is not the answer to making the borg restored to there former glory. Make the nodes mean something again and not just a dps fest and run right thru them. All the newer kit powers make the borg adapt to the energy kit powers making you remodulate to keep using them.


    Add in group objectives that make people act as a team again like the ground starbase missions 3 consoles needing activated at one time only make it combination of actions requiring the team work together but split in order to proceed for instance have 2 halls and a objective in each hall requiring the team to split 2/3 and face each hall in order to bypass a lock down. then they can regroup and proceed. Or make areas that react to the player in the way they take on a area for instance in room one you have the usual borg consoles wall panels ect. in room 2 you have the borg again but if any one sets off a AOE kit power and weapon then a plasma rupture happens and then you get a choice return to the first room and as a team activate the correct sequence to shut off the plasma leak or do you just run thru the plasma getting hit with a injury and suffering a 5 minute debuff to your health.

    i am sure people can come up with something better than i can but the point is adding multifaceted objectives and equal ability to react to the players actions to make the borg stronger. Not adding more of a dps rollover only interrupted by a remodulate do to more health or altering a weapon.
    To be or not to be: B)
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