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Can we get a doctor in the house?

I get that it was easier to make science a catch all, but after sniffing the vapors, meditating and consulting the wisest Tribble of them all, it has been revealed to me that science should be science and medical should be medical.

I know the nay sayers are going to get their panties in a twist over the concept, but me and the wisest tribble would like to see a medical become it's own class... yes, I know the Dev's will be up in arms over this, but I am sure the Boss of cryptic is a TRIBBLE, like me, and is jonesing to hear the wails of anguish and cries of their sweet suffering.

So, give us a Doc that can do doc stuff and let science do the science stuff. Give us that sawbone that can graft that cyber limb on to my Captain, command a Plague Born destroyer and make my enemies rue the day they were born!

Incidentally, making a "Medical" class gives more versatility to STO and makes the creation of the private sector that much easier.
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  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,586 Arc User
    I imagine that would require more work than it's worth, I'd just leave medical as a branch of science like it is in the real world.
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 4,410 Arc User
    Considering that the difference is so small that defining which is which is simply a matter of a few personal traits and kit modules (and possibly frame) and (in the case of TOS and DSC only) a choice of badge in the tailor, I cannot see the point in trying to separate them.

    Even the shows point out that Medical is more of a strong specialization than something completely outside of the science field (despite what McCoy likes to say to the contrary).

  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 4,668 Arc User
    Sorry. Medicine is science based, so therefore it's in the right track, and as someone who is studying Sports based Medicine (Exercise and Sports SCIENCES Degree), I can absolutely say it IS a Science.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,910 Arc User
    "Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a scientist!"

    There is truth to that. Medicine is a science, but not every doctor is a scientist and certainly not every scientist is a doctor.

    I would like that, but player classes are pretty much done at this point, eight years into the game pig-2.gif But ideally, we would have gotten the correct departments from the start: Command, Engineering, Operations, Science and Medical. There is no "tactical", it's contents should be divided between Command (Tactical - space) and Operations (Security - ground).​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    We don't need more classes, but I wouldn't mind seeing a Medical specialization, perhaps even with a revamp and re-introduction of the crew system.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
  • stormcrow#8086 stormcrow Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    "Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a scientist!"

    There is truth to that. Medicine is a science, but not every doctor is a scientist and certainly not every scientist is a doctor.

    I would like that, but player classes are pretty much done at this point, eight years into the game pig-2.gif But ideally, we would have gotten the correct departments from the start: Command, Engineering, Operations, Science and Medical. There is no "tactical", it's contents should be divided between Command (Tactical - space) and Operations (Security - ground).​​

    THIS!

    I try not to put my medical well being in the hands of my quantum physicist.

    STO is a great game and I want to see it evolve rather than whither. The best and easiest way to evolve the game is to expand it beyond the two factions... I mean really, I cannot imagine a Romulan or JH choosing Fed or KDF over Piracy.

    We are utilizing a very small % of the potential universe working within the militarized aspect of space. With the division of Medical from Science you open the universe up to profound options. Personally I'd Break Bad all over the Gamma quadrant, in a few years the Jem'Hadar wouldn't even have neck tubes... they'd have nose tubes :P

    For the game, the Private Sector is the undiscovered country. Imagine buying contracts, establishing business', Bounty Hunting, retiring from Star Fleet and doing your own thing. Imagine buying stations for you ship rather than a ship for a specific station.

    In the Private sector "fleet" becomes an entirely different creature... buy, barter, build, seize that star base. Invade, negotiate, discover that colony world. The Private Sector creates factions upon factions and gives the game teeth... it would no longer be either/or faction, that colony world that you built could be under siege by any number of a hundred random factions.

    Medical being it's own entity opens the playing field to expand science into real science and allows Medical to perform real medicine and create/solve problems that are not present in the game currently. Why not retire your Starfleet Ferngi engineer and establish a shipyard where you ply that mechanical engineering genius into a lucrative trade? Cuz I would really like to take my Medical Doc and open a cyber implant office... naturally I would need someone to forge purchase orders on the implants that I bought from the Pirates that carved them out of your other character... cuz the feds will have laws against that stuff.


  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,131 Arc User
    Medicine is a science.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,910 Arc User
    THIS!

    I try not to put my medical well being in the hands of my quantum physicist.

    That's fictional science for you, though. In Agents of Shield we have the (however gifted she is) leading biochemist perform surgery on team members routinely because they just don't have a doctor at SHIELD pig-2.gif
    For the game, the Private Sector is the undiscovered country. Imagine buying contracts, establishing business', Bounty Hunting, retiring from Star Fleet and doing your own thing. Imagine buying stations for you ship rather than a ship for a specific station.

    That's not really where I'd go but that doesn't have much to do with having a medical department pig-3.gif
    valoreah wrote: »
    Medicine is a science.

    But not every practising doctor is a medical researcher. In Trek though, Medical is it's own department, although sharing the colour of Science. So, the way STO did it it's not wrong, but it'd be nice in terms of "trekking out" to have our doctors and nurses in their own department, at least I think so.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    Look at Dr. McCoy's badge. It has the Science emblem.

    Nurse Chapel wore a Red Cross in her badge, but she wasn't a doctor in TOS, at least not until the movies. I believe that is a costume option for the AOY costumes.

    I don't need a Medical Class, but I sure could use a Medical AI! I trained up a doctor and have tried for the longest time to get her to actually heal someone. Unfortunately, I chose a Beta Zed, so she runs into melee combat and uses her lame psionic attack that never works in preference to a) Pulsewave Assault Rifle, b) Bat'leth, c) Cryo Grenades. Since she is the first to fall when my BOffs start dying, she's never around to revive anyone, even after the battle.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    angrytarg wrote: »
    THIS!

    I try not to put my medical well being in the hands of my quantum physicist.

    That's fictional science for you, though. In Agents of Shield we have the (however gifted she is) leading biochemist perform surgery on team members routinely because they just don't have a doctor at SHIELD pig-2.gif

    Nonsense! As a qualified Earth Scientist I'd be happy to operate on anyone should they ask.

    I might end up taking thin slivers of them and exposing them to fancy types of radiation to determine their content but I'd probably help them more than a plumber would.

    Besides, Simmons has several PhDs, what does the 'D' stand for? Doctor, duh. Ergo all PhDs are medical doctors.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,586 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Having Medical and Science officers able to share skills isn't that strange in Trek, where pretty much every named officer is capable of performing tasks outside of their specialization. Just look at Tom Paris.

    I just wish they still labelled which department each skill is supposed to be from.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    But not every practising doctor is a medical researcher. ​​

    Actually, they are.

    My Mother is in the medical field and the amount of constant courses she has to sit through to keep up with new advancements is staggering. There are clinics, seminars and all types of stuff all the time and most of them are required attendance. Medicine is a constantly changing and evolving field and Medical Staff actually have a lot of research to do to stay current. Many times patients come in with symptoms that could mean many things and that requires extra work and yes.. research.. to determine the likely cause.

    I get what you're saying, Doctors aren't out trying to cure cancer and looking up ways to overcome illness, there are specific researchers that do that stuff, but I can assure you they fit the definition of a 'Scientist.'

    Scientist - a person who is studying or has expert knowledge of one or more of the natural or physical sciences.

    Doctors are definitely Scientists.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,816 Community Moderator
    (OMG... I hope people are being intentionally funny in this thread.)
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,910 Arc User
    > @azrael605 said:
    > I have seen real life Navy Medical Corpsman perform emergency field surgery. They are not medical doctors. Guarantee a Biochemist has greater medical knowledge.

    I'd challenge that. Hard. 😄

    Medics are medical trained and are taught how to perform field surgery. A biochemist is very, very much not. Believe me.

    At the end of the day it'd just be fun to be able to distinguish between casters and healers in STO by having a "medical" under the name.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »

    At the end of the day it'd just be fun to be able to distinguish between casters and healers in STO by having a "medical" under the name.

    Fair enough, that seems reasonable.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    Unfortunately for the OP, the best you'll ever get is to acquire and use the title of "Doctor" that can hover over your character for all to see.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,041 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Then there would be six classes, each profession would be split into two separate classes. Engineering and Operations, Science and Medical, Tactical and Security.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,131 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    But not every practising doctor is a medical researcher. ​​

    They don't need to be devoted to research. They are still practicing a science, not voodoo.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,870 Arc User
    Some doctors take the hippocratic oath, others take the hypothetical.

    Which would you prefer poking at your insides?
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,910 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    valoreah wrote: »
    They don't need to be devoted to research. They are still practicing a science, not voodoo.

    Practitioners of a science are however not necessarily scientists themselves. Also, medical researches are often not practising themselves. This affects other professions in a scientific field as well, Apothecaries, Teachers or Attorneys for example have scientific training (the latter one having a degree of arts I'm aware, but this is a distinction that only exists in the English language as far as I'm aware) are however not necessarily scientists.

    EDIT:
    artan42 wrote: »
    Nonsense! As a qualified Earth Scientist I'd be happy to operate on anyone should they ask.

    I might end up taking thin slivers of them and exposing them to fancy types of radiation to determine their content but I'd probably help them more than a plumber would.

    Besides, Simmons has several PhDs, what does the 'D' stand for? Doctor, duh. Ergo all PhDs are medical doctors.

    Needless to say you'd also advance our knowledge of Gauss-weaponry on a whim, because of SCIENCE pig-2.gif​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,131 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Practitioners of a science are however not necessarily scientists themselves.

    Again, they don't need to be.
    sci·en·tist
    /ˈsīən(t)əst/
    noun
    noun: scientist; plural noun: scientists

    a person who is studying or has expert knowledge of one or more of the natural or physical sciences.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • sandormen123sandormen123 Member Posts: 862 Arc User
    Omg. This thread gave me a seriously strong headache...
    /Floozy
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,714 Arc User
    If we're ever going to see a new class (Which lets face it, it will never happen) it should be something new not something that will be the least played class in STO, because there is already no need for healers and specialized healing spec should and probably would do even less dps than Engineer.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    angrytarg wrote: »
    artan42 wrote: »
    Nonsense! As a qualified Earth Scientist I'd be happy to operate on anyone should they ask.

    I might end up taking thin slivers of them and exposing them to fancy types of radiation to determine their content but I'd probably help them more than a plumber would.

    Besides, Simmons has several PhDs, what does the 'D' stand for? Doctor, duh. Ergo all PhDs are medical doctors.

    Needless to say you'd also advance our knowledge of Gauss-weaponry on a whim, because of SCIENCE pig-2.gif

    We're all just one fun discovery away from world domination. The only thing stopping most scientists from becoming mad scientists is funding. Say you want a death ray to heat a small lump of iridium up and you get funding. Say you want a bigger one to melt Australia and all of a sudden you're out of a job and resorting to flogging Gillson's finest to eat.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,910 Arc User
    > @valoreah said:
    >
    > Again, they don't need to be.
    > sci·en·tist
    > /ˈsīən(t)əst/
    > noun
    > noun: scientist; plural noun: scientists
    >
    > a person who is studying or has expert knowledge of one or more of the natural or physical sciences.

    No matter your definition, the BMJ would disagree. They at least published the comment of a allergist who would say doctors aren't scientists and appearantly the majority of cases mentioned would agree, doctors don't view themselves as scientists. The reason would be that practitioners do not conduct actual scientific work, they don't deal with the unknown. That is what medical researchers do. Aside from that, it also seems to be a cultural/language thing. In Germany, doctors are explicitly not scientists except when they conduct research.

    Anyway this doesn't contribute to the situation in Star Trek. I think the Doctors have been prominent enough to warrant a career under the asculap.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,427 Arc User
    we need to get a dev to sy no so this can be added to the fct
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,816 Community Moderator
    Is this really brought up that often??
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  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    I think a "Merchant Class" gets brought up more often than "Medical Doctor Class".
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    we need to get a dev to sy no so this can be added to the fct

    FCT stands for frequently created topics.

    This topic has now been brought up a total of one time..

    and that's counting this thread.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
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