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On Lag and Tier 6 Reputations

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  • tasshenatasshena Member Posts: 512 Arc User
    Social media is not good enough, not everyone follows everything daily on social media.​​
  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,452 Arc User
    Hey folks,

    We've been looking into the lag and rubber banding issues in the game, and determined the cause. Unfortunately, the cause was a fix we'd put in place to fix an entirely different bug - that Captains were getting their skills invalidated by claiming Tier 6 reputations. Because the lag is a larger issue throughout the game, we've decided to remove the previous fix as of a few minutes ago. This means that until our next update, where we'll be instituting a fix that should solve both problems, you should avoid claiming a Tier 6 Reputation. We apologize for the inconvenience - the fact that these two things are even related is mind boggling, but that's coding for you.

    Is this going to result in another "The 107" situation? If so. A heads up would be appreciated this time.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,462 Arc User
    So can I just clear my last project for each Reputation but not slot the Claim Tier 6? Is there a Claim Tier 6 project anymore?
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • direwolf016#2451 direwolf016 Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    Will this issue affect console? Meaning, we shouldn't claim Tier 6 until a go-ahead?
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    Will this issue affect console? Meaning, we shouldn't claim Tier 6 until a go-ahead?

    Unfortunately, someone over on Console is going to have to be the Guinea pig to see what happens.
    Post edited by where2r1 on
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • goldenavarielgoldenavariel Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    frtoaster wrote: »
    [See this thread.

    Skills Invalid?

    Oh wow. Yeah, I want to avoid that. Thanks!
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    Hmmm.... I am still seeing some "freezes" in the animation. Something is still wonked out. But not going to spend a lot of time in the game tonight.

    (Unless I get a volunteer to wash the dishes and clean the kitchen...yeah, fat chance.... LOL!)
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,742 Arc User
    Totally fixed the issue for me, game is back to actually being playable.

    Thanks!
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 1,070 Arc User
    None of the messed up tier 6 reputation & lagged rubber banding is fun or good for any of us, but I like the direct communication about it here. Things get messed up sure enough. Just glad Cryptic is acknowledging it & addressing it.
  • thatsgottahurtthatsgottahurt Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    I can't log in at all. The launcher just keeps spinning: "loading, please wait" and never finishes. If I shut it down and restart it, it does the same thing.

    Friday Nov 16 9:23pb CST
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,462 Arc User
    Same here.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • eazzieeazzie Member Posts: 3,223 Arc User
    I can't log in at all. The launcher just keeps spinning: "loading, please wait" and never finishes. If I shut it down and restart it, it does the same thing.

    Friday Nov 16 9:23pb CST
    ltminns wrote: »
    Same here.

    There is currently an issue with the pc launcher that may prevent you from launching. For me although the launcher was showing the status as offline I was able to login ok.
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,332 Arc User
    I can't blame whomever owns STO. The creators did the coding of the game. I could blame the tools being used, as those were made by the game/engine creators too. Either way, it's really annoying.

    Yep, these guys have to pretty much reserve engineer the engine, and I don't think the original folks are there....this is something you don't wanna wish on anyone. Playing with codes myself in the 3d art works I do, effecting one item could affect something else, or fixing a glitch could effect something else unrelated. @[email protected]
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • eazzieeazzie Member Posts: 3,223 Arc User
    eazzie wrote: »
    I can't log in at all. The launcher just keeps spinning: "loading, please wait" and never finishes. If I shut it down and restart it, it does the same thing.

    Friday Nov 16 9:23pb CST
    ltminns wrote: »
    Same here.

    There is currently an issue with the pc launcher that may prevent you from launching. For me although the launcher was showing the status as offline I was able to login ok.

    Appears fixed :)
  • dwolf1400dwolf1400 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    Figures when I have hit all but three T6 rep levels, the other three I will hit tomorrow...
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,952 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    I don't believe this issue is in any way a sign that the developers rely on spaghetti code or don't know how their engine works.

    Lag is induced either by the connection itself - some router along the way from the client to the server taking too long to transmit the messages between them - or by the server taking too long to calculate its response to a client message. The server doesn't recieve input from the client and assumes nothing happened, while the client recieves no response from the server so it assumes for now that everything is going as it looked - the player input is used. Then, finally server and client catch up to each other, and the server says "sorry, I didn't read you, the input of the player doesn't count", and the client has to reset the game to a state that matches the server, leading to you jumping around the map, abilities not being triggered and what not.

    If the calculation needed to avoid the Tier 6 Reputation problem inadvertently ended up too expensive on the server, it leads to the server taking too long to reply to the client(s). The T6 Reputation fix might require the server to constantly perform some extra checks for every player character to avoid the "illegal skill" state (quite possibly regardless of whether they were anywhere close to getting to the T6 Reputation. Or maybe it unintentionally checks a lot more than it was supposed to, or more often than it was supposed to. Or it checks it in a particularly time-consuming way. That is certainly a developer "error", but it can happen regardless of familiarity with the engine or the quality of the design).

    It is not like this is the first time that server-side calculations caused lag - remember the issues with Kemocite a few years back?
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • snowwolf#0563 snowwolf Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    I claimed Tier 6 Reputation today, skills still work and my lag and the rubber banding I experienced earlier is gone.

    However I'm stuck with the old traits, I can't remove them or claim any of the new ones.

    Link to bug report:
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1245279/problem-with-tier-6-reputation-traits

    Note: I was able to slot the new traits and replace the old ones after I posted the bug report, I explained how in the bug report. But it's all good now, no issues on my end anymore.
  • eazzieeazzie Member Posts: 3,223 Arc User
    I claimed Tier 6 Reputation today, skills still work and my lag and the rubber banding I experienced earlier is gone.

    However I'm stuck with the old traits, I can't remove them or claim any of the new ones.

    Link to bug report:
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1245279/problem-with-tier-6-reputation-traits

    Note: I was able to slot the new traits and replace the old ones after I posted the bug report, I explained how in the bug report. But it's all good now, no issues on my end anymore.

    If you have the rank 1 trait slotted drag the rank 2 over the top of it. that worked for me. Hope that makes sense.
  • kirk2811kirk2811 Member Posts: 85 Arc User
    frtoaster wrote: »
    [See this thread.

    Skills Invalid?

    Oh wow. Yeah, I want to avoid that. Thanks!

    Same here
  • snowwolf#0563 snowwolf Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    eazzie wrote: »
    If you have the rank 1 trait slotted drag the rank 2 over the top of it. that worked for me. Hope that makes sense.

    Yeah I figured that out, so I was able to slot the new traits and replace the old ones. I explained it in the bug report too, that's why I posted the edit here saying I figured it out.

    But thanks!
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    Can we reach and claim level 6/tier 6 reputations without experiencing rubberbanding to hell and back or is it still an issue?
  • bluemodeltbluemodelt Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    I also recommend not using the new toy from event.The lag it causes is just as massive.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,742 Arc User
    Rubber banding/Lag has been fixed, but from what I understand, claiming T6 is still a bad idea.

    Because of the holiday this week, the patch should hopefully drop on Tuesday instead, maybe that will come with the fix. I recommend holding off for another day.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    Thanks for your answers, guys!
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    Interesting over 3 weeks of rubberbanding I hit tier 6 on 2 reps on the 16/11 and the rest yesterday. I've not been getting any lag since hitting tier 6 other than on fri/sat queuing up mark-dil projects were lagging. Yesterday and today (hope I don't jinx it) I've not been getting the rubberbanding, which points me to believe that the issue I've had over the past 3 weeks is server/isp issues. I had no issues via my own isp connecting anywhere else other than to Star Trek Online so i'm pretty sure its Cryptic's side and server/isp issues from their end.

    I'll have to test further as I haven't spent the hours I usually do over the weekend but the rubberbanding is so far so gone.
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,742 Arc User
    @casualsto

    Looks like this is indeed getting fixed in the patch tomorrow. Hopefully, you'll be good to go once that's done. :smile:
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    Today I can't seem to find it in the Changelogs.

    I've reached T6 Terran on a fed tac. Waiting for confirmation to press a button.

    Thank you, @seaofsorrows , for keeping me updated.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,742 Arc User
    edited November 2018
    casualsto wrote: »
    Today I can't seem to find it in the Changelogs.

    I've reached T6 Terran on a fed tac. Waiting for confirmation to press a button.

    Thank you, @seaofsorrows , for keeping me updated.

    It's in the patch notes listed here.

    Specifically:
    Resolved an issue where some players experienced having Invalid Skills.
    Clicking to respect should now work to clear this and it will be free.

    The Invalid Skills was caused by claiming T6 Reputation. Once this patch goes live, it should be safe..

    At least we'll hope it is. :wink:
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • ambassadorkael#6946 ambassadorkael Member, Administrator Posts: 2,431 Community Manager
    In case you missed it, the patch notes today included a fix for the skill invalidation, by clicking respect. :)

    So claim away!
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