Other than your point 3 and 4 is just made up TRIBBLE and not based on ANYTHING in reality. So if I get a lockbox ship and can swap it to a new toon I make for FREE instead of spending more money on it by deleting a toon I rarely use, it does not reduce demand...yeah...sure...and there is a bridge I'd like to sell you for real cheap if you are stupid enough to truely believe what you just said. And doubly so for the account unlock. An average promo ship is well north of 200 bucks a pop. A whale who spends five figures has something like 45 of those. And that is somebody who hit five figures on this game. And this does not take into account that if a whale already bought say...10 astika to have the trait on 10 toons and it suddenly becomes account unlock...thereby wasting the eqv of 750 bucks of resources...you don't think that whale won't even be remotely pissed? And less likely to spend money in the future. Cuz...you know what...I would instantly just up and quit the game if they did that to me. So they should do that to pry the measly couple of bucks from your hands? Because according to you, vaporizing hundreds of dollars worth of resources from the whales and even long time hard core grinders is a GREAT idea where nobody is gonna get mad...and they will continue to spend and grind per normal. Yeah...seriously there is a moon I could sell you for a reasonable price if you honestly believe that drivel. I doubt that. Stop using words you barely know the meaning of in an attempt to sound smart. You ain't fooling nobody.
NOBODY is saying that point 1 and 2 ain't true. We are saying it ain't worth it to TRIBBLE of the people who REALLY keep this game going.
You're spent a long time telling me that whales will derive absolutely no 'benefit' from being able to recover special currency when deleting characters. I do take the point that whales might actually buy multiple instances of the same special ship - which is why my proposal - that deleting characters restores character bound items to the account to redistribute to a different character - keeps in the spirit of ensuring that anyone who wants multiple instances of an item on multiple characters at once must buy the item multiple times - but also ensures that more casual players can collate their specials on the characters they prefer to have them on. More pointedly I/we wont need to feel that Cyrptic is stealing my money when they delete the items I paid them for, when I delete a character I no longer play.
The one point you make - that a retroactive account wide unlock would be grossly unfair is certainly taken. I would be pissed. Again, because it's essentially Cryptic stealing from players. (if, on the other hand, you presume to say that it's not theft when Cryptic delete my purchases when I delete a character then I put it to you that anyone with multiple paid up ships should also just suck-it-up and not be babies if Cryptic do retroactively account unlock currently character locked ships).
I still haven't seen a valid scenario where Cryptic loses sales as a consequence of ensuring that purchased items are refunded to the account if the character they're bound to is deleted.
> @ihatepwe735 said: > seaofsorrows wrote: » > > coldnapalm wrote: » > > So no, if you delete a toon, it is not theft on cryptic's part...it is YOU throwing something away. So...yeah once again NO. > > > > > Bingo! > > If you're too dumb to realize this, then there is just no helping you. Calling it 'theft' is beyond ridiculous. > > > > > I choose to delete a toon. Not the item I purchased.
And who's fault is that?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
So no, if you delete a toon, it is not theft on cryptic's part...it is YOU throwing something away. So...yeah once again NO.
Bingo!
If you're too dumb to realize this, then there is just no helping you. Calling it 'theft' is beyond ridiculous.
I choose to delete a toon. Not the item I purchased.
Ever-so often, someone pops up on the forum, being ostentatiously unreasonable. I believe your case qualifies.
Seriously, I have many a beef with Cryptic, at times, but deleting your toon first, and *then* acting surprised your stuff is gone, that's taking the cake, really. At the absolute very least, any human with a few working brain cells left, if they were to undertake such an adventure, would seek advice from Cryptic first, as to what will happen to their stuffz on toon deletion. If you already lost your stuff in this manner, I feel safe to say you probably didn't deserve to have it in the first place.
Ever-so often, someone pops up on the forum, being ostentatiously unreasonable. I believe your case qualifies.
Seriously, I have many a beef with Cryptic, at times, but deleting your toon first, and *then* acting surprised your stuff is gone, that's taking the cake, really. At the absolute very least, any human with a few working brain cells left, if they were to undertake such an adventure, would seek advice from Cryptic first, as to what will happen to their stuffz on toon deletion. If you already lost your stuff in this manner, I feel safe to say you probably didn't deserve to have it in the first place.
I am aware that Cryptic does not restore items when characters are deleted.
I compensate by not deleting characters.
This does mean my account is full of characters I don't play, and, but for the items they happen to be the carriers of, don't want to play.
Consequently I note that I am no longer am interested in any special purchases at all - because those ships and items literally have no value other than to become a deadweight on characters.
Now, I do understand that not everyone is like me. Perhaps you have some meta strategy for organizing your purchased special items on the correct characters. Or you don't mind paying for something once, and then paying for it again because you re-rolled. That's fine. I grant you that. In turn, grant me the assertion that the demand for special ships can only increase if special items are refunded on character deletion.
Grant me - and people like me - the right to assert that we would prefer to spend a limited gaming budget on a thing just once, to keep that thing, because its interesting to buy more things.
I really don't know what is so controversial about this idea that there is value in digital goods that persist. And that value does increase demand. And I do grant that making character bound items account bound instead would decrease demand substantially as well as annoy everyone who had already paid multiple times. But that is not what I am suggesting.
All I am suggesting is that, for people who are fickle, disorganized, or - after returning to the game years later no longer have any attachment or even understanding of our high level characters - we would like to restart, but with the digital goods we already paid for.
Its one of the reasons I got the LTS. Because I'd played years of Wow and had nothing to show for it. The day my sub stopped I lost everything. STO with a lifetime sub seemed a much better value proposition, and presumably other STO players who went LTS and still are going LTS, feel the same way. There IS value in paying extra for something that you get to keep. That is literally the value in the LTS subscription option.
Ever-so often, someone pops up on the forum, being ostentatiously unreasonable. I believe your case qualifies.
Seriously, I have many a beef with Cryptic, at times, but deleting your toon first, and *then* acting surprised your stuff is gone, that's taking the cake, really. At the absolute very least, any human with a few working brain cells left, if they were to undertake such an adventure, would seek advice from Cryptic first, as to what will happen to their stuffz on toon deletion. If you already lost your stuff in this manner, I feel safe to say you probably didn't deserve to have it in the first place.
I am well aware that stuff is not restored when characters are deleted. Its why I don't delete characters.
What I don't know is why the hate for an idea that can only increase Cryptics sales. Why the belittlement and not veiled personal attacks for daring to suggest a non zero proportion of the player base values "buying" digital items, and then getting to keep said digital items.
Now I grant you the privilege of being someone who, perhaps has a master plan for your characters. Only ever buys special ships once, on the correct character. Or you are someone who, perhaps, doesn't mind paying for the same - rather than a new and different - item - repeatedly. Whatever. You are, in no way, affected by refunded items on character deletion unless you delete a character. Whales are in no way affected by refunded items on character deletion, because they literally have 45 characters anyway to hold all their ships. The only people who are affected are people like me. People who value a lifetime subscription because of the persistence it brings. People who have returned to STO after years and have no attachment to their old characters. No understanding of the mechanics. People who would prefer to start their characters over, but also people who find it imprudent to simply destroy an investment.
I know the thought process that made me choose an LTS subscription is the thought process that is making me no longer consider special ships because they keep on locking me into characters I just don't want anymore.
But sure. Insult me and call me names for wanting to delete my characters but keep what i've paid for. Whatever. I'll be here long after you, I've got an LTS. And so does everyone else who sees the value in paying for digital goods that they get to keep.
Ok, guys, while I agree that our friend here is being a bit unreasonable and misunderstanding a few basic economic principles, the insults are completely unnecessary. Please, stop and remain civil. Thank you.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Ever-so often, someone pops up on the forum, being ostentatiously unreasonable. I believe your case qualifies.
Seriously, I have many a beef with Cryptic, at times, but deleting your toon first, and *then* acting surprised your stuff is gone, that's taking the cake, really. At the absolute very least, any human with a few working brain cells left, if they were to undertake such an adventure, would seek advice from Cryptic first, as to what will happen to their stuffz on toon deletion. If you already lost your stuff in this manner, I feel safe to say you probably didn't deserve to have it in the first place.
I am quite aware that nothing is refunded when characters are deleted.
Which is why I was writing in the present tense - to indicate its a hypothetical action I have not actually taken.
What I don't get is the hate, and the name calling, for proposing and idea that cannot harm Cryptics sales in any way but will, conversely, only improve them. At least no one has shown how restoring items on character deletion will "reduce" sales; whales stock multiple characters; deleting characters as a way to consolidate ships is not in their MO. And casuals... while they might not need to re-buy ship-a can instead take that freed up cash and buy ship-b instead. There's always another console to get.
Now, maybe you are super organized and know exactly which character to unpack a ship on. Maybe you don't mind missing out on the opportunity to buy new things because you keep re-buying old things. Everyone is different so whatever floats your boat...
Some people however are not so organized. Or they're just fickle. Perhaps they're returning to STO after years away but feel no attachment to their old characters, strangely adrift in storylines that have changed. Or the mechanics have changed enough that they just can't dive in and perform at a high level. Players who for various reasons want to start their characters over.
many years ago however I played Wow and I realized that, despite years of subscription, that my characters, and achievements, were gone the moment I stopped paying.
So, when I switched to STO I got the lifetime subscription. Because there is value in keeping things that you way for. An opinion presumably shared by other players who also got LTS. And the thought process that made me choose LTS is the same thought process that means I just don't consider special ships - or any purchase - thats deleted with my character - to be a worthwhile investment.
So, whatever. I - and other LTS players - are going to be here far longer than non LTS. Because, in no small part, because we value paying for digital goods once. Its not a hard concept. One you intrinsically understand if you're LTS too. And if you're not - cheers.
Comments
You're spent a long time telling me that whales will derive absolutely no 'benefit' from being able to recover special currency when deleting characters. I do take the point that whales might actually buy multiple instances of the same special ship - which is why my proposal - that deleting characters restores character bound items to the account to redistribute to a different character - keeps in the spirit of ensuring that anyone who wants multiple instances of an item on multiple characters at once must buy the item multiple times - but also ensures that more casual players can collate their specials on the characters they prefer to have them on. More pointedly I/we wont need to feel that Cyrptic is stealing my money when they delete the items I paid them for, when I delete a character I no longer play.
The one point you make - that a retroactive account wide unlock would be grossly unfair is certainly taken. I would be pissed. Again, because it's essentially Cryptic stealing from players. (if, on the other hand, you presume to say that it's not theft when Cryptic delete my purchases when I delete a character then I put it to you that anyone with multiple paid up ships should also just suck-it-up and not be babies if Cryptic do retroactively account unlock currently character locked ships).
I still haven't seen a valid scenario where Cryptic loses sales as a consequence of ensuring that purchased items are refunded to the account if the character they're bound to is deleted.
Bingo!
If you're too dumb to realize this, then there is just no helping you. Calling it 'theft' is beyond ridiculous.
I choose to delete a toon. Not the item I purchased.
> seaofsorrows wrote: »
>
> coldnapalm wrote: »
>
> So no, if you delete a toon, it is not theft on cryptic's part...it is YOU throwing something away. So...yeah once again NO.
>
>
>
>
> Bingo!
>
> If you're too dumb to realize this, then there is just no helping you. Calling it 'theft' is beyond ridiculous.
>
>
>
>
> I choose to delete a toon. Not the item I purchased.
And who's fault is that?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Ever-so often, someone pops up on the forum, being ostentatiously unreasonable. I believe your case qualifies.
Seriously, I have many a beef with Cryptic, at times, but deleting your toon first, and *then* acting surprised your stuff is gone, that's taking the cake, really. At the absolute very least, any human with a few working brain cells left, if they were to undertake such an adventure, would seek advice from Cryptic first, as to what will happen to their stuffz on toon deletion. If you already lost your stuff in this manner, I feel safe to say you probably didn't deserve to have it in the first place.
I am aware that Cryptic does not restore items when characters are deleted.
I compensate by not deleting characters.
This does mean my account is full of characters I don't play, and, but for the items they happen to be the carriers of, don't want to play.
Consequently I note that I am no longer am interested in any special purchases at all - because those ships and items literally have no value other than to become a deadweight on characters.
Now, I do understand that not everyone is like me. Perhaps you have some meta strategy for organizing your purchased special items on the correct characters. Or you don't mind paying for something once, and then paying for it again because you re-rolled. That's fine. I grant you that. In turn, grant me the assertion that the demand for special ships can only increase if special items are refunded on character deletion.
Grant me - and people like me - the right to assert that we would prefer to spend a limited gaming budget on a thing just once, to keep that thing, because its interesting to buy more things.
I really don't know what is so controversial about this idea that there is value in digital goods that persist. And that value does increase demand. And I do grant that making character bound items account bound instead would decrease demand substantially as well as annoy everyone who had already paid multiple times. But that is not what I am suggesting.
All I am suggesting is that, for people who are fickle, disorganized, or - after returning to the game years later no longer have any attachment or even understanding of our high level characters - we would like to restart, but with the digital goods we already paid for.
Its one of the reasons I got the LTS. Because I'd played years of Wow and had nothing to show for it. The day my sub stopped I lost everything. STO with a lifetime sub seemed a much better value proposition, and presumably other STO players who went LTS and still are going LTS, feel the same way. There IS value in paying extra for something that you get to keep. That is literally the value in the LTS subscription option.
You can't really be this dumb.
I am well aware that stuff is not restored when characters are deleted. Its why I don't delete characters.
What I don't know is why the hate for an idea that can only increase Cryptics sales. Why the belittlement and not veiled personal attacks for daring to suggest a non zero proportion of the player base values "buying" digital items, and then getting to keep said digital items.
Now I grant you the privilege of being someone who, perhaps has a master plan for your characters. Only ever buys special ships once, on the correct character. Or you are someone who, perhaps, doesn't mind paying for the same - rather than a new and different - item - repeatedly. Whatever. You are, in no way, affected by refunded items on character deletion unless you delete a character. Whales are in no way affected by refunded items on character deletion, because they literally have 45 characters anyway to hold all their ships. The only people who are affected are people like me. People who value a lifetime subscription because of the persistence it brings. People who have returned to STO after years and have no attachment to their old characters. No understanding of the mechanics. People who would prefer to start their characters over, but also people who find it imprudent to simply destroy an investment.
I know the thought process that made me choose an LTS subscription is the thought process that is making me no longer consider special ships because they keep on locking me into characters I just don't want anymore.
But sure. Insult me and call me names for wanting to delete my characters but keep what i've paid for. Whatever. I'll be here long after you, I've got an LTS. And so does everyone else who sees the value in paying for digital goods that they get to keep.
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
I am quite aware that nothing is refunded when characters are deleted.
Which is why I was writing in the present tense - to indicate its a hypothetical action I have not actually taken.
What I don't get is the hate, and the name calling, for proposing and idea that cannot harm Cryptics sales in any way but will, conversely, only improve them. At least no one has shown how restoring items on character deletion will "reduce" sales; whales stock multiple characters; deleting characters as a way to consolidate ships is not in their MO. And casuals... while they might not need to re-buy ship-a can instead take that freed up cash and buy ship-b instead. There's always another console to get.
Now, maybe you are super organized and know exactly which character to unpack a ship on. Maybe you don't mind missing out on the opportunity to buy new things because you keep re-buying old things. Everyone is different so whatever floats your boat...
Some people however are not so organized. Or they're just fickle. Perhaps they're returning to STO after years away but feel no attachment to their old characters, strangely adrift in storylines that have changed. Or the mechanics have changed enough that they just can't dive in and perform at a high level. Players who for various reasons want to start their characters over.
many years ago however I played Wow and I realized that, despite years of subscription, that my characters, and achievements, were gone the moment I stopped paying.
So, when I switched to STO I got the lifetime subscription. Because there is value in keeping things that you way for. An opinion presumably shared by other players who also got LTS. And the thought process that made me choose LTS is the same thought process that means I just don't consider special ships - or any purchase - thats deleted with my character - to be a worthwhile investment.
So, whatever. I - and other LTS players - are going to be here far longer than non LTS. Because, in no small part, because we value paying for digital goods once. Its not a hard concept. One you intrinsically understand if you're LTS too. And if you're not - cheers.