i doubt it, given another former paragon 'employee' came forward and said the exact opposite of the former paragon 'employee' whistleblower in that article
thing is...we have NO way of knowing which one is the real former employee, or even if EITHER of them are
Considering that NCSoft is the company that forged a letter to the fans of Tabula Rasa stating that due to Richard Garriott's experience in space that he is moving away from Tabula Rasa, I am more willing to side with Paragon Studios over NCSoft.
[...] it's censored, along with a whole raft of terms, because someone at PWE considers a reference to seuxally-transmitted diseases potentially offensive (the same reason why it's difficult to discuss how to open a door around here, because the forum autocensors the word "k.nob", or to reference Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by Philip K. TRIBBLE).
There is that as well, although I'd argue reference to venereal disease genuinely is potentially offensive (depending on the context - like the 'g' word, it's too often used in a derogatory manner), whereas a good number of the terms recently censored aren't used offensively in any context, such as the Christian word for the underworld.
Because, apparently, PWE thinks that we are five year olds. I can understand outright vulgarity or hardcore profanity. But words that have other meanings besides the vulgar, or light-weight substitutions for cuss words, is going a bit overboard in my opinion.
I am not a fan of the censoring either, but the game seems to be rated T in the ESRB system, and for ages 12+ in the USK system (German rating board). On the website itself it shows me a rating of 0, though.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
We WERE going to get the Earth-Romulan War, which was an ESTABLISHED CANON EVENT in that time period. I believe it was some stupid corporate decision that axed Enterprise before we got to it, and gave us the rather lackluster, but somewhat interesting nod to an event in TNG, series finale. Was kinda funny having Riker compare the NX class Bridge to the Galaxy class Brig. But it did kinda detract from the Ent crew.
And my point is... where are the rants about Enterprise now? They were shifted over to the Kelvin Timeline movies when they came out. Now... we got people ranting and raving about Discovery, and we don't hear about the KT movies.
The point is... people are hating on the new stuff, seemingly just to hate on it because its new and different.
Yea some concerns may be legit, but to basically scream DOOOOOOOM on everything new?
My standpoint is not to judge a book by its cover. I'm not letting the past affect my judgement entirely. I am judging it on its own merits, like how the Battletech novels weren't following one particular person or group in every book. Hell... Battletech bounces all over their universe! One book is about some Clan Mechwarrior, another follows the mercenary company Grey Death Legion!
Kinda the same with Star Trek shows. It is not ALL about the USS Enterpris in various eras. Its not impossible to have ships have their own adventures. We were fine with DS9 and Voyager. The main thing is having familiar tech, such as warp drive and phasers and stuff like that. That still leaves room for other things to build up stories around, such as the experimental Spore Drive, which we know is too risky to develop further and will be shelved.
Do some characters need to develop more? Of course! That's true of ANY new show. In TNG, Worf went from the token Klingon on the Bridge to a full on character with his own complexity, and was even brought into DS9. We cannot expect everything to be mindblowing blockbuster successes right out of the gate. TNG and DS9 taught us that, yet that seems to be the expectation all the time.
The way I see it... the so called "True Fans" have set expectations so high... that unless we had the second coming of Roddenberry unleashing TOS 2.0, complete with 1960s asthetics, nothing will please them. And they will attack it, and anyone who doesn't agree with them, without mercy.
I am frankly sick and tired of these "True Fan" arguments and attacks. Being a "True Fan" does NOT require you to worship anything and attack anything that doesn't conform 100% to what came in the past, be it asthetics or story "quality". If the requirement of being a "True Fan" of Star Trek is to hate everything new, nitpick it to DEATH, wish DOOM on it without even giving it a chance to stand on its own merits rather than the merits of something from the 1960s...
I'm proud NOT to be a "True Fan" if that is the case. Because frankly... I feel like its getting to the point where no one actually cares that we're getting something new. If its not post Nemesis (which I'm sure they'd rant about if "they got it wrong") or looking like it was made in the 1960s, its blasphemy and must be destroyed.
I think part of why the fanbase has become so hostile towards the studios is simply the general feeling that the people in charge have no respect for what came before them and no regard for what is going to come after them.
This is a franchise that has existed for over fifty years and has experienced long periods of inactivity, where the only thing keeping it relevant was the passion of the fans. Due to this the fans feel a degree of ownership of the franchise, feeling the series has only continued to exist due to their efforts rather than what the studios are doing. Combined with the fact that the IP has changed hands so often (in terms of copyrights, licensing, and creative teams) also leaves a feeling that the studios claims of ownership ring hollow.
With or without CBS/Paramount Star Trek will continue to exist in some fashion, simply because the fans refuse to let it die.
We WERE going to get the Earth-Romulan War, which was an ESTABLISHED CANON EVENT in that time period. I believe it was some stupid corporate decision that axed Enterprise before we got to it, and gave us the rather lackluster, but somewhat interesting nod to an event in TNG, series finale. Was kinda funny having Riker compare the NX class Bridge to the Galaxy class Brig. But it did kinda detract from the Ent crew.
And my point is... where are the rants about Enterprise now? They were shifted over to the Kelvin Timeline movies when they came out. Now... we got people ranting and raving about Discovery, and we don't hear about the KT movies.
The point is... people are hating on the new stuff, seemingly just to hate on it because its new and different.
Yea some concerns may be legit, but to basically scream DOOOOOOOM on everything new?
My standpoint is not to judge a book by its cover. I'm not letting the past affect my judgement entirely. I am judging it on its own merits, like how the Battletech novels weren't following one particular person or group in every book. Hell... Battletech bounces all over their universe! One book is about some Clan Mechwarrior, another follows the mercenary company Grey Death Legion!
Kinda the same with Star Trek shows. It is not ALL about the USS Enterpris in various eras. Its not impossible to have ships have their own adventures. We were fine with DS9 and Voyager. The main thing is having familiar tech, such as warp drive and phasers and stuff like that. That still leaves room for other things to build up stories around, such as the experimental Spore Drive, which we know is too risky to develop further and will be shelved.
Do some characters need to develop more? Of course! That's true of ANY new show. In TNG, Worf went from the token Klingon on the Bridge to a full on character with his own complexity, and was even brought into DS9. We cannot expect everything to be mindblowing blockbuster successes right out of the gate. TNG and DS9 taught us that, yet that seems to be the expectation all the time.
The way I see it... the so called "True Fans" have set expectations so high... that unless we had the second coming of Roddenberry unleashing TOS 2.0, complete with 1960s asthetics, nothing will please them. And they will attack it, and anyone who doesn't agree with them, without mercy.
I am frankly sick and tired of these "True Fan" arguments and attacks. Being a "True Fan" does NOT require you to worship anything and attack anything that doesn't conform 100% to what came in the past, be it asthetics or story "quality". If the requirement of being a "True Fan" of Star Trek is to hate everything new, nitpick it to DEATH, wish DOOM on it without even giving it a chance to stand on its own merits rather than the merits of something from the 1960s...
I'm proud NOT to be a "True Fan" if that is the case. Because frankly... I feel like its getting to the point where no one actually cares that we're getting something new. If its not post Nemesis (which I'm sure they'd rant about if "they got it wrong") or looking like it was made in the 1960s, its blasphemy and must be destroyed.
I think part of why the fanbase has become so hostile towards the studios is simply the general feeling that the people in charge have no respect for what came before them and no regard for what is going to come after them.
This is a franchise that has existed for over fifty years and has experienced long periods of inactivity, where the only thing keeping it relevant was the passion of the fans. Due to this the fans feel a degree of ownership of the franchise, feeling the series has only continued to exist due to their efforts rather than what the studios are doing. Combined with the fact that the IP has changed hands so often (in terms of copyrights, licensing, and creative teams) also leaves a feeling that the studios claims of ownership ring hollow.
With or without CBS/Paramount Star Trek will continue to exist in some fashion, simply because the fans refuse to let it die.
BINGO.
It was the FANS who kept Trek alive, despite the studio suits both not understanding it, nor liking it.
The fans saved Trek from cancellation after season 2.
The fans kept it alive during the whole of the seventies.
The fans caused it to come back in 1979.
The fans caused it to revive in the eighties.
The fans kept it alive after 2005.
The fans made fan films, like Phase 2 and Continues, and keeping the feel of the original alive, while the studios kept putting out more cookie cutter, "Get more viewers, to hell with the long time fans!" stuff after another.
When a trek actor dies, he or she gets more mourning and respect that politicians, businessmen and big shots WISH they had.
I mean look at recent Star Wars......yea yea....last Jedi might have sold a lot of tickets...but many fans were left with a nasty flavor in their mouths, and going, "What were they thinking?!"
And moderators, PLEASE don't censor the following line, please!
I feel the suits and executives of both CBS and Paramount...apart from being bean counters who THINK they have talent and intelligence.....are behaving in an INFANTILE way. First with their tug-of-war in ownership. Also, their infantile, spoiled brat behavior over fan films....to the point it's like they slapped a chastity belt on the fans with their RIDICULOUS rules and guidelines. I remember Doug Drexler on Trek Yards, in regards to the new fan film guidelines, CBS and Paramount need to take a page from George Lucas....when he saw fan films that impressed him, did he send out the law ninjas to break their legs? No....he gave these people JOBS. George knew that someone with talent is an ASSET, and not a LIABILITY.
Lucas laughed at the old "Hardware Wars!" parody film, and same with "Spaceballs", heck, George even lent a hand with the visual effects, and he did not break Mr. Brook's legs for the Falcon being seen near the end, either.
Even if CBS and Paramount lost ownership to Trek, the fans won't let it die out. And it this rate, I feel that might be a GOOD thing.
With or without CBS/Paramount Star Trek will continue to exist in some fashion, simply because the fans refuse to let it die.
Wing Commander is in a similar position. We've had nothing new really since the 90s, (Arena doesn't exactly count because it was just an arena shooter with no story and no 3d movment). Fans have been the ones to keep the franchise alive, making mods and fan projects.
Your are forgetting or skipping over some important facts. CBS/Paramount was content to let fans make fan productions until one TRIBBLE-hole tried to make money off Star Trek. One so called fan ruined it for everyone.
> @smokebailey said: > lordrezeon wrote: » > > rattler2 wrote: » > > We WERE going to get the Earth-Romulan War, which was an ESTABLISHED CANON EVENT in that time period. I believe it was some stupid corporate decision that axed Enterprise before we got to it, and gave us the rather lackluster, but somewhat interesting nod to an event in TNG, series finale. Was kinda funny having Riker compare the NX class Bridge to the Galaxy class Brig. But it did kinda detract from the Ent crew. > > And my point is... where are the rants about Enterprise now? They were shifted over to the Kelvin Timeline movies when they came out. Now... we got people ranting and raving about Discovery, and we don't hear about the KT movies. > > The point is... people are hating on the new stuff, seemingly just to hate on it because its new and different. > Yea some concerns may be legit, but to basically scream DOOOOOOOM on everything new? > > My standpoint is not to judge a book by its cover. I'm not letting the past affect my judgement entirely. I am judging it on its own merits, like how the Battletech novels weren't following one particular person or group in every book. Hell... Battletech bounces all over their universe! One book is about some Clan Mechwarrior, another follows the mercenary company Grey Death Legion! > > Kinda the same with Star Trek shows. It is not ALL about the USS Enterpris in various eras. Its not impossible to have ships have their own adventures. We were fine with DS9 and Voyager. The main thing is having familiar tech, such as warp drive and phasers and stuff like that. That still leaves room for other things to build up stories around, such as the experimental Spore Drive, which we know is too risky to develop further and will be shelved. > > Do some characters need to develop more? Of course! That's true of ANY new show. In TNG, Worf went from the token Klingon on the Bridge to a full on character with his own complexity, and was even brought into DS9. We cannot expect everything to be mindblowing blockbuster successes right out of the gate. TNG and DS9 taught us that, yet that seems to be the expectation all the time. > > The way I see it... the so called "True Fans" have set expectations so high... that unless we had the second coming of Roddenberry unleashing TOS 2.0, complete with 1960s asthetics, nothing will please them. And they will attack it, and anyone who doesn't agree with them, without mercy. > > I am frankly sick and tired of these "True Fan" arguments and attacks. Being a "True Fan" does NOT require you to worship anything and attack anything that doesn't conform 100% to what came in the past, be it asthetics or story "quality". If the requirement of being a "True Fan" of Star Trek is to hate everything new, nitpick it to DEATH, wish DOOM on it without even giving it a chance to stand on its own merits rather than the merits of something from the 1960s... > > I'm proud NOT to be a "True Fan" if that is the case. Because frankly... I feel like its getting to the point where no one actually cares that we're getting something new. If its not post Nemesis (which I'm sure they'd rant about if "they got it wrong") or looking like it was made in the 1960s, its blasphemy and must be destroyed. > > > > > I think part of why the fanbase has become so hostile towards the studios is simply the general feeling that the people in charge have no respect for what came before them and no regard for what is going to come after them. > > This is a franchise that has existed for over fifty years and has experienced long periods of inactivity, where the only thing keeping it relevant was the passion of the fans. Due to this the fans feel a degree of ownership of the franchise, feeling the series has only continued to exist due to their efforts rather than what the studios are doing. Combined with the fact that the IP has changed hands so often (in terms of copyrights, licensing, and creative teams) also leaves a feeling that the studios claims of ownership ring hollow. > > With or without CBS/Paramount Star Trek will continue to exist in some fashion, simply because the fans refuse to let it die. > > > > > BINGO. > > It was the FANS who kept Trek alive, despite the studio suits both not understanding it, nor liking it. > > The fans saved Trek from cancellation after season 2. > > The fans kept it alive during the whole of the seventies. > > The fans caused it to come back in 1979. > > The fans caused it to revive in the eighties. > > The fans kept it alive after 2005. > > The fans made fan films, like Phase 2 and Continues, and keeping the feel of the original alive, while the studios kept putting out more cookie cutter, "Get more viewers, to hell with the long time fans!" stuff after another. > > When a trek actor dies, he or she gets more mourning and respect that politicians, businessmen and big shots WISH they had. > > I mean look at recent Star Wars......yea yea....last Jedi might have sold a lot of tickets...but many fans were left with a nasty flavor in their mouths, and going, "What were they thinking?!" > > And moderators, PLEASE don't censor the following line, please! > > I feel the suits and executives of both CBS and Paramount...apart from being bean counters who THINK they have talent and intelligence.....are behaving in an INFANTILE way. First with their tug-of-war in ownership. Also, their infantile, spoiled brat behavior over fan films....to the point it's like they slapped a chastity belt on the fans with their RIDICULOUS rules and guidelines. I remember Doug Drexler on Trek Yards, in regards to the new fan film guidelines, CBS and Paramount need to take a page from George Lucas....when he saw fan films that impressed him, did he send out the law ninjas to break their legs? No....he gave these people JOBS. George knew that someone with talent is an ASSET, and not a LIABILITY. > Lucas laughed at the old "Hardware Wars!" parody film, and same with "Spaceballs", heck, George even lent a hand with the visual effects, and he did not break Mr. Brook's legs for the Falcon being seen near the end, either. > > Even if CBS and Paramount lost ownership to Trek, the fans won't let it die out. And it this rate, I feel that might be a GOOD thing. > > ~drops mic~
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I don't think he was a fan. I think all he saw were dollar signs for his own little for profit studio. All that crowd funding he did? I doubt even one cent went to Axanar. Yea he threw together that prelude... but then we got all the other shtako he threw together, including frickin' Axanar COFFEE. He didn't care. All he wanted was money.
Anyways... the whole Axanar fiasco is long over... let it remain dead.
And think of it this way... its not like Harmony Gold going after anything with mechs in it, and even going after the guys who let them have distribution rights in North America. I will be happy when their license ends. If they try to sue over that, I'll laugh because they will be doomed from the get go.
Your are forgetting or skipping over some important facts. CBS/Paramount was content to let fans make fan productions until one TRIBBLE-hole tried to make money off Star Trek. One so called fan ruined it for everyone.
> @smokebailey said:
> lordrezeon wrote: »
>
> rattler2 wrote: »
>
> We WERE going to get the Earth-Romulan War, which was an ESTABLISHED CANON EVENT in that time period. I believe it was some stupid corporate decision that axed Enterprise before we got to it, and gave us the rather lackluster, but somewhat interesting nod to an event in TNG, series finale. Was kinda funny having Riker compare the NX class Bridge to the Galaxy class Brig. But it did kinda detract from the Ent crew.
>
> And my point is... where are the rants about Enterprise now? They were shifted over to the Kelvin Timeline movies when they came out. Now... we got people ranting and raving about Discovery, and we don't hear about the KT movies.
>
> The point is... people are hating on the new stuff, seemingly just to hate on it because its new and different.
> Yea some concerns may be legit, but to basically scream DOOOOOOOM on everything new?
>
> My standpoint is not to judge a book by its cover. I'm not letting the past affect my judgement entirely. I am judging it on its own merits, like how the Battletech novels weren't following one particular person or group in every book. Hell... Battletech bounces all over their universe! One book is about some Clan Mechwarrior, another follows the mercenary company Grey Death Legion!
>
> Kinda the same with Star Trek shows. It is not ALL about the USS Enterpris in various eras. Its not impossible to have ships have their own adventures. We were fine with DS9 and Voyager. The main thing is having familiar tech, such as warp drive and phasers and stuff like that. That still leaves room for other things to build up stories around, such as the experimental Spore Drive, which we know is too risky to develop further and will be shelved.
>
> Do some characters need to develop more? Of course! That's true of ANY new show. In TNG, Worf went from the token Klingon on the Bridge to a full on character with his own complexity, and was even brought into DS9. We cannot expect everything to be mindblowing blockbuster successes right out of the gate. TNG and DS9 taught us that, yet that seems to be the expectation all the time.
>
> The way I see it... the so called "True Fans" have set expectations so high... that unless we had the second coming of Roddenberry unleashing TOS 2.0, complete with 1960s asthetics, nothing will please them. And they will attack it, and anyone who doesn't agree with them, without mercy.
>
> I am frankly sick and tired of these "True Fan" arguments and attacks. Being a "True Fan" does NOT require you to worship anything and attack anything that doesn't conform 100% to what came in the past, be it asthetics or story "quality". If the requirement of being a "True Fan" of Star Trek is to hate everything new, nitpick it to DEATH, wish DOOM on it without even giving it a chance to stand on its own merits rather than the merits of something from the 1960s...
>
> I'm proud NOT to be a "True Fan" if that is the case. Because frankly... I feel like its getting to the point where no one actually cares that we're getting something new. If its not post Nemesis (which I'm sure they'd rant about if "they got it wrong") or looking like it was made in the 1960s, its blasphemy and must be destroyed.
>
>
>
>
> I think part of why the fanbase has become so hostile towards the studios is simply the general feeling that the people in charge have no respect for what came before them and no regard for what is going to come after them.
>
> This is a franchise that has existed for over fifty years and has experienced long periods of inactivity, where the only thing keeping it relevant was the passion of the fans. Due to this the fans feel a degree of ownership of the franchise, feeling the series has only continued to exist due to their efforts rather than what the studios are doing. Combined with the fact that the IP has changed hands so often (in terms of copyrights, licensing, and creative teams) also leaves a feeling that the studios claims of ownership ring hollow.
>
> With or without CBS/Paramount Star Trek will continue to exist in some fashion, simply because the fans refuse to let it die.
>
>
>
>
> BINGO.
>
> It was the FANS who kept Trek alive, despite the studio suits both not understanding it, nor liking it.
>
> The fans saved Trek from cancellation after season 2.
>
> The fans kept it alive during the whole of the seventies.
>
> The fans caused it to come back in 1979.
>
> The fans caused it to revive in the eighties.
>
> The fans kept it alive after 2005.
>
> The fans made fan films, like Phase 2 and Continues, and keeping the feel of the original alive, while the studios kept putting out more cookie cutter, "Get more viewers, to hell with the long time fans!" stuff after another.
>
> When a trek actor dies, he or she gets more mourning and respect that politicians, businessmen and big shots WISH they had.
>
> I mean look at recent Star Wars......yea yea....last Jedi might have sold a lot of tickets...but many fans were left with a nasty flavor in their mouths, and going, "What were they thinking?!"
>
> And moderators, PLEASE don't censor the following line, please!
>
> I feel the suits and executives of both CBS and Paramount...apart from being bean counters who THINK they have talent and intelligence.....are behaving in an INFANTILE way. First with their tug-of-war in ownership. Also, their infantile, spoiled brat behavior over fan films....to the point it's like they slapped a chastity belt on the fans with their RIDICULOUS rules and guidelines. I remember Doug Drexler on Trek Yards, in regards to the new fan film guidelines, CBS and Paramount need to take a page from George Lucas....when he saw fan films that impressed him, did he send out the law ninjas to break their legs? No....he gave these people JOBS. George knew that someone with talent is an ASSET, and not a LIABILITY.
> Lucas laughed at the old "Hardware Wars!" parody film, and same with "Spaceballs", heck, George even lent a hand with the visual effects, and he did not break Mr. Brook's legs for the Falcon being seen near the end, either.
>
> Even if CBS and Paramount lost ownership to Trek, the fans won't let it die out. And it this rate, I feel that might be a GOOD thing.
>
> ~drops mic~
And so neuter the entire fan base community, hmmmmm?
Great plan....GREAT PLAN!
WAY TO GO, CBS/PARAMOUNT......you REALLY made a GREAT decision.
Read the George Lucas bit, least he knows more about fans than a bunch of suits in a cushy board room.
Just like the above mentioned Harmony Gold bit fits in. Infantile behavior from the suits will NOT win you ratings or followers.
Respect the property, and most importantly, respect the FANS. It's not brain surgery or hyper-dimensional physics (though hyper-dimensional physics I can understand pretty well), treat trek and the fans as treasure....not liabilities.
I do admit the sledgehammer approach to all fan films was a bit overkill, but we have to consider that in the case of Axanar, CBS was in their legal rights to defend their IP from a poacher. HG, on the other hand, was just too frickin' lawsuit happy because it raked in the $$$ in settlements, and most of the time suppressed a legit competator franchise, in this case Battletech/Mechwarrior. Bet the only reason HG didn't go lawsuit happy over Pacific Rim was because Legendary would probably eat them for breakfast.
I think CBS may lighten the restrictions in a few years, to make sure the message was heard. Don't profit off what you don't own. Remember that CBS had had NO issue with any other fan film, project, or fiction produced before that. And they don't seem to have a problem with any current projects now. It was only when Axanar started trying to profit that they pulled out the big guns. It was no longer a fan film. It was a For Profit project.
All we can do on that front is wait and see. At least we still got Star Trek Armada III mod for Sins of a Solar Empire. The modders did an amazing job, and it actually got Mod of the Year on ModDB.
Anyways... lets hope that any future projects that get the attention of CBS will actually provide resources for the future, like with some of the Star Wars stuff. That's talent that can be tapped after all.
> @smokebailey said: > khan5000 wrote: » > > Your are forgetting or skipping over some important facts. CBS/Paramount was content to let fans make fan productions until one TRIBBLE-hole tried to make money off Star Trek. One so called fan ruined it for everyone. > > > > @smokebailey said: > > lordrezeon wrote: » > > > > rattler2 wrote: » > > > > We WERE going to get the Earth-Romulan War, which was an ESTABLISHED CANON EVENT in that time period. I believe it was some stupid corporate decision that axed Enterprise before we got to it, and gave us the rather lackluster, but somewhat interesting nod to an event in TNG, series finale. Was kinda funny having Riker compare the NX class Bridge to the Galaxy class Brig. But it did kinda detract from the Ent crew. > > > > And my point is... where are the rants about Enterprise now? They were shifted over to the Kelvin Timeline movies when they came out. Now... we got people ranting and raving about Discovery, and we don't hear about the KT movies. > > > > The point is... people are hating on the new stuff, seemingly just to hate on it because its new and different. > > Yea some concerns may be legit, but to basically scream DOOOOOOOM on everything new? > > > > My standpoint is not to judge a book by its cover. I'm not letting the past affect my judgement entirely. I am judging it on its own merits, like how the Battletech novels weren't following one particular person or group in every book. Hell... Battletech bounces all over their universe! One book is about some Clan Mechwarrior, another follows the mercenary company Grey Death Legion! > > > > Kinda the same with Star Trek shows. It is not ALL about the USS Enterpris in various eras. Its not impossible to have ships have their own adventures. We were fine with DS9 and Voyager. The main thing is having familiar tech, such as warp drive and phasers and stuff like that. That still leaves room for other things to build up stories around, such as the experimental Spore Drive, which we know is too risky to develop further and will be shelved. > > > > Do some characters need to develop more? Of course! That's true of ANY new show. In TNG, Worf went from the token Klingon on the Bridge to a full on character with his own complexity, and was even brought into DS9. We cannot expect everything to be mindblowing blockbuster successes right out of the gate. TNG and DS9 taught us that, yet that seems to be the expectation all the time. > > > > The way I see it... the so called "True Fans" have set expectations so high... that unless we had the second coming of Roddenberry unleashing TOS 2.0, complete with 1960s asthetics, nothing will please them. And they will attack it, and anyone who doesn't agree with them, without mercy. > > > > I am frankly sick and tired of these "True Fan" arguments and attacks. Being a "True Fan" does NOT require you to worship anything and attack anything that doesn't conform 100% to what came in the past, be it asthetics or story "quality". If the requirement of being a "True Fan" of Star Trek is to hate everything new, nitpick it to DEATH, wish DOOM on it without even giving it a chance to stand on its own merits rather than the merits of something from the 1960s... > > > > I'm proud NOT to be a "True Fan" if that is the case. Because frankly... I feel like its getting to the point where no one actually cares that we're getting something new. If its not post Nemesis (which I'm sure they'd rant about if "they got it wrong") or looking like it was made in the 1960s, its blasphemy and must be destroyed. > > > > > > > > > > I think part of why the fanbase has become so hostile towards the studios is simply the general feeling that the people in charge have no respect for what came before them and no regard for what is going to come after them. > > > > This is a franchise that has existed for over fifty years and has experienced long periods of inactivity, where the only thing keeping it relevant was the passion of the fans. Due to this the fans feel a degree of ownership of the franchise, feeling the series has only continued to exist due to their efforts rather than what the studios are doing. Combined with the fact that the IP has changed hands so often (in terms of copyrights, licensing, and creative teams) also leaves a feeling that the studios claims of ownership ring hollow. > > > > With or without CBS/Paramount Star Trek will continue to exist in some fashion, simply because the fans refuse to let it die. > > > > > > > > > > BINGO. > > > > It was the FANS who kept Trek alive, despite the studio suits both not understanding it, nor liking it. > > > > The fans saved Trek from cancellation after season 2. > > > > The fans kept it alive during the whole of the seventies. > > > > The fans caused it to come back in 1979. > > > > The fans caused it to revive in the eighties. > > > > The fans kept it alive after 2005. > > > > The fans made fan films, like Phase 2 and Continues, and keeping the feel of the original alive, while the studios kept putting out more cookie cutter, "Get more viewers, to hell with the long time fans!" stuff after another. > > > > When a trek actor dies, he or she gets more mourning and respect that politicians, businessmen and big shots WISH they had. > > > > I mean look at recent Star Wars......yea yea....last Jedi might have sold a lot of tickets...but many fans were left with a nasty flavor in their mouths, and going, "What were they thinking?!" > > > > And moderators, PLEASE don't censor the following line, please! > > > > I feel the suits and executives of both CBS and Paramount...apart from being bean counters who THINK they have talent and intelligence.....are behaving in an INFANTILE way. First with their tug-of-war in ownership. Also, their infantile, spoiled brat behavior over fan films....to the point it's like they slapped a chastity belt on the fans with their RIDICULOUS rules and guidelines. I remember Doug Drexler on Trek Yards, in regards to the new fan film guidelines, CBS and Paramount need to take a page from George Lucas....when he saw fan films that impressed him, did he send out the law ninjas to break their legs? No....he gave these people JOBS. George knew that someone with talent is an ASSET, and not a LIABILITY. > > Lucas laughed at the old "Hardware Wars!" parody film, and same with "Spaceballs", heck, George even lent a hand with the visual effects, and he did not break Mr. Brook's legs for the Falcon being seen near the end, either. > > > > Even if CBS and Paramount lost ownership to Trek, the fans won't let it die out. And it this rate, I feel that might be a GOOD thing. > > > > ~drops mic~ > > > > > And so neuter the entire fan base community, hmmmmm? > > > > Great plan....GREAT PLAN! > > WAY TO GO, CBS/PARAMOUNT......you REALLY made a GREAT decision. > > > Read the George Lucas bit, least he knows more about fans than a bunch of suits in a cushy board room. > > > > Just like the above mentioned Harmony Gold bit fits in. Infantile behavior from the suits will NOT win you ratings or followers. > > > Respect the property, and most importantly, respect the FANS. It's not brain surgery or hyper-dimensional physics (though hyper-dimensional physics I can understand pretty well), treat trek and the fans as treasure....not liabilities.
I don’t like it anymore than you do but let’s not pretend CBS/Paramount woke up one day and just decided to TRIBBLE with the fans.
And while Lucas did allow fan productions I am willing to bet that if someone did what Axanar did they would have seen Imperial lawyers too.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Respect the property, and most importantly, respect the FANS. It's not brain surgery or hyper-dimensional physics (though hyper-dimensional physics I can understand pretty well), treat trek and the fans as treasure....not liabilities.
Yeah, it's more like herding cats. Cat A is like "Tuna is the bestest thing evah!" But Cat B is like: "I hate everything that lives in the water!"
> @coldnapalm said: > markhawkman wrote: » > > smokebailey wrote: » > > Respect the property, and most importantly, respect the FANS. It's not brain surgery or hyper-dimensional physics (though hyper-dimensional physics I can understand pretty well), treat trek and the fans as treasure....not liabilities. > > > > Yeah, it's more like herding cats. Cat A is like "Tuna is the bestest thing evah!" But Cat B is like: "I hate everything that lives in the water!" > > > > > Herding cats is easy by comparison actually. Because you have catnip. There is no catnip for the fanbase.
Catnip for Star Trek fans is called Patrick Stewart
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Respect the property, and most importantly, respect the FANS. It's not brain surgery or hyper-dimensional physics (though hyper-dimensional physics I can understand pretty well), treat trek and the fans as treasure....not liabilities.
Yeah, it's more like herding cats. Cat A is like "Tuna is the bestest thing evah!" But Cat B is like: "I hate everything that lives in the water!"
Herding cats is easy by comparison actually. Because you have catnip. There is no catnip for the fanbase.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Catnip for Star Trek fans is called Patrick Stewart
Not really. Ever see the comic with the who is the bald guy punchline? I actually don't care for TNG and Picard.
I have posted that comic far too many times on these forums and will likely post it many more. The comment in the comic about a light hearted show about life in space might be why some Star Trek fans like The Orville over Discovery. The Orville and TOS have a certain idealism towards them while the Season 1 of Discovery had too much cold hard realism. Discovery is like STO without Q's Winter Wonderland and the Lohlunat Festival. Just one battle after another.
I'm really quite amused by all these assumptions that Lucas was some supremely generous, non-litigious saint who let people just run roughshod all over his IP. You should try talking to some of the EU writers, back before Disney (wisely, IMO) chopped that overgrown story-jungle off entirely. Or try showing me all those professional-looking fan movies that surely must exist, if CBS/Paramount's treatment of the Axanar ripoff (and ripoff it was; Peters gave no sign of ever actually intending to make a fan film, but rather was using the Star Trek IP to make money to fund his own personal studio) was some kind of vicious, greedy aberration in the gentle and giving world of Hollywood.
Like what you like, dislike what you dislike - but don't expect to run that revisionist-history TRIBBLE past me without a challenge.
I'm really quite amused by all these assumptions that Lucas was some supremely generous, non-litigious saint who let people just run roughshod all over his IP. You should try talking to some of the EU writers, back before Disney (wisely, IMO) chopped that overgrown story-jungle off entirely. Or try showing me all those professional-looking fan movies that surely must exist, if CBS/Paramount's treatment of the Axanar ripoff (and ripoff it was; Peters gave no sign of ever actually intending to make a fan film, but rather was using the Star Trek IP to make money to fund his own personal studio) was some kind of vicious, greedy aberration in the gentle and giving world of Hollywood.
Like what you like, dislike what you dislike - but don't expect to run that revisionist-history TRIBBLE past me without a challenge.
Personally, I think the Star Wars EU exists in a parallel universe to the Star Wars Cinematic Universe. Just like what will happen to STO when a new Star Trek series set after Nemesis is released.
I think you’ll see the (hypothetical) writers of post Nemesis show try to stick with STO history. In one of the streams the devs mentioned the Picard writers requested the history of the era from them. Operative word in that sentence was Try.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Kirsten Beyer is one of the executive producers and she has written several post Nemesis Voyager books
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I think you’ll see the (hypothetical) writers of post Nemesis show try to stick with STO history. In one of the streams the devs mentioned the Picard writers requested the history of the era from them. Operative word in that sentence was Try.
It will be impossible to use the STO timeline and Novels timeline to set the right timeline for the Picard series. If I was one of the Picard writers, then I would get the events after Nemesis from the biggest post-Nemesis Star Trek productions and steal what I think are good ideas from them while ignoring the rest.
Religiously following the STO timeline will ruin any form of creativity when there is absolutely no need to follow the events of a story that is soft canon at best and non-canon at worst.
I never said they should follow it religiously. Just that they may “try” to follow it.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I never said they should follow it religiously. Just that they may “try” to follow it.
Either way, i believe it to be a mistake. With sequels, the writers should have far more flexibility to create a new and interesting story. I want to hear their interpretation of the events that happened after Nemesis not their interpretation of someone else's interpretation of the events that happened after Nemesis.
Judging by the recent thread regarding the STO roadmap.
People seem to be very much against Star Trek Discovery. Just an honest and curious question I would like to ask people. Granted I had hoped for more DS9 but it can't be helped and despite my issues with the Klingons. I am generally curious as to current discourse with Discovery. That's all.
Edited vague thread title and moved to correct forum section. -- StarSword-C
I do not and do like it at the same time. Its Schrödinger's SciFi :-P
I like it as an independent new SciFi show with no ties to any franchise I know. The actors IMO are doing a great job, the effects are stunning and they have some nice unique ideas.
As a Trek show it makes me sad because it could have worked if (besides a few name/family relation changes) it was placed in the future and these weird ST:DIS Aliens they call Klingons would be properly called something else which had not been onscreen before. Their insistence to fit themselves between ENT (which IMO tried to be part of the family) and TOS feels awkward and a bit embarrassing; its attention TRIBBLE in complete disregard and disrespect to the entire franchise.
Comments
Considering that NCSoft is the company that forged a letter to the fans of Tabula Rasa stating that due to Richard Garriott's experience in space that he is moving away from Tabula Rasa, I am more willing to side with Paragon Studios over NCSoft.
I think part of why the fanbase has become so hostile towards the studios is simply the general feeling that the people in charge have no respect for what came before them and no regard for what is going to come after them.
This is a franchise that has existed for over fifty years and has experienced long periods of inactivity, where the only thing keeping it relevant was the passion of the fans. Due to this the fans feel a degree of ownership of the franchise, feeling the series has only continued to exist due to their efforts rather than what the studios are doing. Combined with the fact that the IP has changed hands so often (in terms of copyrights, licensing, and creative teams) also leaves a feeling that the studios claims of ownership ring hollow.
With or without CBS/Paramount Star Trek will continue to exist in some fashion, simply because the fans refuse to let it die.
BINGO.
It was the FANS who kept Trek alive, despite the studio suits both not understanding it, nor liking it.
The fans saved Trek from cancellation after season 2.
The fans kept it alive during the whole of the seventies.
The fans caused it to come back in 1979.
The fans caused it to revive in the eighties.
The fans kept it alive after 2005.
The fans made fan films, like Phase 2 and Continues, and keeping the feel of the original alive, while the studios kept putting out more cookie cutter, "Get more viewers, to hell with the long time fans!" stuff after another.
When a trek actor dies, he or she gets more mourning and respect that politicians, businessmen and big shots WISH they had.
I mean look at recent Star Wars......yea yea....last Jedi might have sold a lot of tickets...but many fans were left with a nasty flavor in their mouths, and going, "What were they thinking?!"
And moderators, PLEASE don't censor the following line, please!
I feel the suits and executives of both CBS and Paramount...apart from being bean counters who THINK they have talent and intelligence.....are behaving in an INFANTILE way. First with their tug-of-war in ownership. Also, their infantile, spoiled brat behavior over fan films....to the point it's like they slapped a chastity belt on the fans with their RIDICULOUS rules and guidelines. I remember Doug Drexler on Trek Yards, in regards to the new fan film guidelines, CBS and Paramount need to take a page from George Lucas....when he saw fan films that impressed him, did he send out the law ninjas to break their legs? No....he gave these people JOBS. George knew that someone with talent is an ASSET, and not a LIABILITY.
Lucas laughed at the old "Hardware Wars!" parody film, and same with "Spaceballs", heck, George even lent a hand with the visual effects, and he did not break Mr. Brook's legs for the Falcon being seen near the end, either.
Even if CBS and Paramount lost ownership to Trek, the fans won't let it die out. And it this rate, I feel that might be a GOOD thing.
~drops mic~
Wing Commander is in a similar position. We've had nothing new really since the 90s, (Arena doesn't exactly count because it was just an arena shooter with no story and no 3d movment). Fans have been the ones to keep the franchise alive, making mods and fan projects.
> @smokebailey said:
> lordrezeon wrote: »
>
> rattler2 wrote: »
>
> We WERE going to get the Earth-Romulan War, which was an ESTABLISHED CANON EVENT in that time period. I believe it was some stupid corporate decision that axed Enterprise before we got to it, and gave us the rather lackluster, but somewhat interesting nod to an event in TNG, series finale. Was kinda funny having Riker compare the NX class Bridge to the Galaxy class Brig. But it did kinda detract from the Ent crew.
>
> And my point is... where are the rants about Enterprise now? They were shifted over to the Kelvin Timeline movies when they came out. Now... we got people ranting and raving about Discovery, and we don't hear about the KT movies.
>
> The point is... people are hating on the new stuff, seemingly just to hate on it because its new and different.
> Yea some concerns may be legit, but to basically scream DOOOOOOOM on everything new?
>
> My standpoint is not to judge a book by its cover. I'm not letting the past affect my judgement entirely. I am judging it on its own merits, like how the Battletech novels weren't following one particular person or group in every book. Hell... Battletech bounces all over their universe! One book is about some Clan Mechwarrior, another follows the mercenary company Grey Death Legion!
>
> Kinda the same with Star Trek shows. It is not ALL about the USS Enterpris in various eras. Its not impossible to have ships have their own adventures. We were fine with DS9 and Voyager. The main thing is having familiar tech, such as warp drive and phasers and stuff like that. That still leaves room for other things to build up stories around, such as the experimental Spore Drive, which we know is too risky to develop further and will be shelved.
>
> Do some characters need to develop more? Of course! That's true of ANY new show. In TNG, Worf went from the token Klingon on the Bridge to a full on character with his own complexity, and was even brought into DS9. We cannot expect everything to be mindblowing blockbuster successes right out of the gate. TNG and DS9 taught us that, yet that seems to be the expectation all the time.
>
> The way I see it... the so called "True Fans" have set expectations so high... that unless we had the second coming of Roddenberry unleashing TOS 2.0, complete with 1960s asthetics, nothing will please them. And they will attack it, and anyone who doesn't agree with them, without mercy.
>
> I am frankly sick and tired of these "True Fan" arguments and attacks. Being a "True Fan" does NOT require you to worship anything and attack anything that doesn't conform 100% to what came in the past, be it asthetics or story "quality". If the requirement of being a "True Fan" of Star Trek is to hate everything new, nitpick it to DEATH, wish DOOM on it without even giving it a chance to stand on its own merits rather than the merits of something from the 1960s...
>
> I'm proud NOT to be a "True Fan" if that is the case. Because frankly... I feel like its getting to the point where no one actually cares that we're getting something new. If its not post Nemesis (which I'm sure they'd rant about if "they got it wrong") or looking like it was made in the 1960s, its blasphemy and must be destroyed.
>
>
>
>
> I think part of why the fanbase has become so hostile towards the studios is simply the general feeling that the people in charge have no respect for what came before them and no regard for what is going to come after them.
>
> This is a franchise that has existed for over fifty years and has experienced long periods of inactivity, where the only thing keeping it relevant was the passion of the fans. Due to this the fans feel a degree of ownership of the franchise, feeling the series has only continued to exist due to their efforts rather than what the studios are doing. Combined with the fact that the IP has changed hands so often (in terms of copyrights, licensing, and creative teams) also leaves a feeling that the studios claims of ownership ring hollow.
>
> With or without CBS/Paramount Star Trek will continue to exist in some fashion, simply because the fans refuse to let it die.
>
>
>
>
> BINGO.
>
> It was the FANS who kept Trek alive, despite the studio suits both not understanding it, nor liking it.
>
> The fans saved Trek from cancellation after season 2.
>
> The fans kept it alive during the whole of the seventies.
>
> The fans caused it to come back in 1979.
>
> The fans caused it to revive in the eighties.
>
> The fans kept it alive after 2005.
>
> The fans made fan films, like Phase 2 and Continues, and keeping the feel of the original alive, while the studios kept putting out more cookie cutter, "Get more viewers, to hell with the long time fans!" stuff after another.
>
> When a trek actor dies, he or she gets more mourning and respect that politicians, businessmen and big shots WISH they had.
>
> I mean look at recent Star Wars......yea yea....last Jedi might have sold a lot of tickets...but many fans were left with a nasty flavor in their mouths, and going, "What were they thinking?!"
>
> And moderators, PLEASE don't censor the following line, please!
>
> I feel the suits and executives of both CBS and Paramount...apart from being bean counters who THINK they have talent and intelligence.....are behaving in an INFANTILE way. First with their tug-of-war in ownership. Also, their infantile, spoiled brat behavior over fan films....to the point it's like they slapped a chastity belt on the fans with their RIDICULOUS rules and guidelines. I remember Doug Drexler on Trek Yards, in regards to the new fan film guidelines, CBS and Paramount need to take a page from George Lucas....when he saw fan films that impressed him, did he send out the law ninjas to break their legs? No....he gave these people JOBS. George knew that someone with talent is an ASSET, and not a LIABILITY.
> Lucas laughed at the old "Hardware Wars!" parody film, and same with "Spaceballs", heck, George even lent a hand with the visual effects, and he did not break Mr. Brook's legs for the Falcon being seen near the end, either.
>
> Even if CBS and Paramount lost ownership to Trek, the fans won't let it die out. And it this rate, I feel that might be a GOOD thing.
>
> ~drops mic~
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Anyways... the whole Axanar fiasco is long over... let it remain dead.
And think of it this way... its not like Harmony Gold going after anything with mechs in it, and even going after the guys who let them have distribution rights in North America. I will be happy when their license ends. If they try to sue over that, I'll laugh because they will be doomed from the get go.
And so neuter the entire fan base community, hmmmmm?
Great plan....GREAT PLAN!
WAY TO GO, CBS/PARAMOUNT......you REALLY made a GREAT decision.
Read the George Lucas bit, least he knows more about fans than a bunch of suits in a cushy board room.
Just like the above mentioned Harmony Gold bit fits in. Infantile behavior from the suits will NOT win you ratings or followers.
Respect the property, and most importantly, respect the FANS. It's not brain surgery or hyper-dimensional physics (though hyper-dimensional physics I can understand pretty well), treat trek and the fans as treasure....not liabilities.
I think CBS may lighten the restrictions in a few years, to make sure the message was heard. Don't profit off what you don't own. Remember that CBS had had NO issue with any other fan film, project, or fiction produced before that. And they don't seem to have a problem with any current projects now. It was only when Axanar started trying to profit that they pulled out the big guns. It was no longer a fan film. It was a For Profit project.
All we can do on that front is wait and see. At least we still got Star Trek Armada III mod for Sins of a Solar Empire. The modders did an amazing job, and it actually got Mod of the Year on ModDB.
Anyways... lets hope that any future projects that get the attention of CBS will actually provide resources for the future, like with some of the Star Wars stuff. That's talent that can be tapped after all.
> khan5000 wrote: »
>
> Your are forgetting or skipping over some important facts. CBS/Paramount was content to let fans make fan productions until one TRIBBLE-hole tried to make money off Star Trek. One so called fan ruined it for everyone.
>
>
> > @smokebailey said:
> > lordrezeon wrote: »
> >
> > rattler2 wrote: »
> >
> > We WERE going to get the Earth-Romulan War, which was an ESTABLISHED CANON EVENT in that time period. I believe it was some stupid corporate decision that axed Enterprise before we got to it, and gave us the rather lackluster, but somewhat interesting nod to an event in TNG, series finale. Was kinda funny having Riker compare the NX class Bridge to the Galaxy class Brig. But it did kinda detract from the Ent crew.
> >
> > And my point is... where are the rants about Enterprise now? They were shifted over to the Kelvin Timeline movies when they came out. Now... we got people ranting and raving about Discovery, and we don't hear about the KT movies.
> >
> > The point is... people are hating on the new stuff, seemingly just to hate on it because its new and different.
> > Yea some concerns may be legit, but to basically scream DOOOOOOOM on everything new?
> >
> > My standpoint is not to judge a book by its cover. I'm not letting the past affect my judgement entirely. I am judging it on its own merits, like how the Battletech novels weren't following one particular person or group in every book. Hell... Battletech bounces all over their universe! One book is about some Clan Mechwarrior, another follows the mercenary company Grey Death Legion!
> >
> > Kinda the same with Star Trek shows. It is not ALL about the USS Enterpris in various eras. Its not impossible to have ships have their own adventures. We were fine with DS9 and Voyager. The main thing is having familiar tech, such as warp drive and phasers and stuff like that. That still leaves room for other things to build up stories around, such as the experimental Spore Drive, which we know is too risky to develop further and will be shelved.
> >
> > Do some characters need to develop more? Of course! That's true of ANY new show. In TNG, Worf went from the token Klingon on the Bridge to a full on character with his own complexity, and was even brought into DS9. We cannot expect everything to be mindblowing blockbuster successes right out of the gate. TNG and DS9 taught us that, yet that seems to be the expectation all the time.
> >
> > The way I see it... the so called "True Fans" have set expectations so high... that unless we had the second coming of Roddenberry unleashing TOS 2.0, complete with 1960s asthetics, nothing will please them. And they will attack it, and anyone who doesn't agree with them, without mercy.
> >
> > I am frankly sick and tired of these "True Fan" arguments and attacks. Being a "True Fan" does NOT require you to worship anything and attack anything that doesn't conform 100% to what came in the past, be it asthetics or story "quality". If the requirement of being a "True Fan" of Star Trek is to hate everything new, nitpick it to DEATH, wish DOOM on it without even giving it a chance to stand on its own merits rather than the merits of something from the 1960s...
> >
> > I'm proud NOT to be a "True Fan" if that is the case. Because frankly... I feel like its getting to the point where no one actually cares that we're getting something new. If its not post Nemesis (which I'm sure they'd rant about if "they got it wrong") or looking like it was made in the 1960s, its blasphemy and must be destroyed.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I think part of why the fanbase has become so hostile towards the studios is simply the general feeling that the people in charge have no respect for what came before them and no regard for what is going to come after them.
> >
> > This is a franchise that has existed for over fifty years and has experienced long periods of inactivity, where the only thing keeping it relevant was the passion of the fans. Due to this the fans feel a degree of ownership of the franchise, feeling the series has only continued to exist due to their efforts rather than what the studios are doing. Combined with the fact that the IP has changed hands so often (in terms of copyrights, licensing, and creative teams) also leaves a feeling that the studios claims of ownership ring hollow.
> >
> > With or without CBS/Paramount Star Trek will continue to exist in some fashion, simply because the fans refuse to let it die.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > BINGO.
> >
> > It was the FANS who kept Trek alive, despite the studio suits both not understanding it, nor liking it.
> >
> > The fans saved Trek from cancellation after season 2.
> >
> > The fans kept it alive during the whole of the seventies.
> >
> > The fans caused it to come back in 1979.
> >
> > The fans caused it to revive in the eighties.
> >
> > The fans kept it alive after 2005.
> >
> > The fans made fan films, like Phase 2 and Continues, and keeping the feel of the original alive, while the studios kept putting out more cookie cutter, "Get more viewers, to hell with the long time fans!" stuff after another.
> >
> > When a trek actor dies, he or she gets more mourning and respect that politicians, businessmen and big shots WISH they had.
> >
> > I mean look at recent Star Wars......yea yea....last Jedi might have sold a lot of tickets...but many fans were left with a nasty flavor in their mouths, and going, "What were they thinking?!"
> >
> > And moderators, PLEASE don't censor the following line, please!
> >
> > I feel the suits and executives of both CBS and Paramount...apart from being bean counters who THINK they have talent and intelligence.....are behaving in an INFANTILE way. First with their tug-of-war in ownership. Also, their infantile, spoiled brat behavior over fan films....to the point it's like they slapped a chastity belt on the fans with their RIDICULOUS rules and guidelines. I remember Doug Drexler on Trek Yards, in regards to the new fan film guidelines, CBS and Paramount need to take a page from George Lucas....when he saw fan films that impressed him, did he send out the law ninjas to break their legs? No....he gave these people JOBS. George knew that someone with talent is an ASSET, and not a LIABILITY.
> > Lucas laughed at the old "Hardware Wars!" parody film, and same with "Spaceballs", heck, George even lent a hand with the visual effects, and he did not break Mr. Brook's legs for the Falcon being seen near the end, either.
> >
> > Even if CBS and Paramount lost ownership to Trek, the fans won't let it die out. And it this rate, I feel that might be a GOOD thing.
> >
> > ~drops mic~
>
>
>
>
> And so neuter the entire fan base community, hmmmmm?
>
>
>
> Great plan....GREAT PLAN!
>
> WAY TO GO, CBS/PARAMOUNT......you REALLY made a GREAT decision.
>
>
> Read the George Lucas bit, least he knows more about fans than a bunch of suits in a cushy board room.
>
>
>
> Just like the above mentioned Harmony Gold bit fits in. Infantile behavior from the suits will NOT win you ratings or followers.
>
>
> Respect the property, and most importantly, respect the FANS. It's not brain surgery or hyper-dimensional physics (though hyper-dimensional physics I can understand pretty well), treat trek and the fans as treasure....not liabilities.
I don’t like it anymore than you do but let’s not pretend CBS/Paramount woke up one day and just decided to TRIBBLE with the fans.
And while Lucas did allow fan productions I am willing to bet that if someone did what Axanar did they would have seen Imperial lawyers too.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
My character Tsin'xing
> markhawkman wrote: »
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> smokebailey wrote: »
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> Respect the property, and most importantly, respect the FANS. It's not brain surgery or hyper-dimensional physics (though hyper-dimensional physics I can understand pretty well), treat trek and the fans as treasure....not liabilities.
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> Yeah, it's more like herding cats. Cat A is like "Tuna is the bestest thing evah!" But Cat B is like: "I hate everything that lives in the water!"
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> Herding cats is easy by comparison actually. Because you have catnip. There is no catnip for the fanbase.
Catnip for Star Trek fans is called Patrick Stewart
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I like catnip tea.
~Purrs~ My chica says the same.
But it also has good medicinal values
http://www.herbalwisdominstitute.com/blog/medicinal-uses-for-catnip
And I find the taste agreeable.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I have posted that comic far too many times on these forums and will likely post it many more. The comment in the comic about a light hearted show about life in space might be why some Star Trek fans like The Orville over Discovery. The Orville and TOS have a certain idealism towards them while the Season 1 of Discovery had too much cold hard realism. Discovery is like STO without Q's Winter Wonderland and the Lohlunat Festival. Just one battle after another.
Like what you like, dislike what you dislike - but don't expect to run that revisionist-history TRIBBLE past me without a challenge.
Personally, I think the Star Wars EU exists in a parallel universe to the Star Wars Cinematic Universe. Just like what will happen to STO when a new Star Trek series set after Nemesis is released.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It will be impossible to use the STO timeline and Novels timeline to set the right timeline for the Picard series. If I was one of the Picard writers, then I would get the events after Nemesis from the biggest post-Nemesis Star Trek productions and steal what I think are good ideas from them while ignoring the rest.
Religiously following the STO timeline will ruin any form of creativity when there is absolutely no need to follow the events of a story that is soft canon at best and non-canon at worst.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Either way, i believe it to be a mistake. With sequels, the writers should have far more flexibility to create a new and interesting story. I want to hear their interpretation of the events that happened after Nemesis not their interpretation of someone else's interpretation of the events that happened after Nemesis.
I do not and do like it at the same time. Its Schrödinger's SciFi :-P
I like it as an independent new SciFi show with no ties to any franchise I know. The actors IMO are doing a great job, the effects are stunning and they have some nice unique ideas.
As a Trek show it makes me sad because it could have worked if (besides a few name/family relation changes) it was placed in the future and these weird ST:DIS Aliens they call Klingons would be properly called something else which had not been onscreen before. Their insistence to fit themselves between ENT (which IMO tried to be part of the family) and TOS feels awkward and a bit embarrassing; its attention TRIBBLE in complete disregard and disrespect to the entire franchise.