However it's obvious they're just ridges. They follow the 'cap' (for want of a better word) over the top of the nose over the top of the nostrils. It's the same cap as on the later TNG Klingons except without the ridges.
Val, it's not fair to use the image of a Klingon who has facial expressions, esp. against the rubber-latex-masks from Discovery.
not that I know where you'd find an equally rigid, single-expression lump of latex to make your point.
Can't argue with that. Even if the only facial expression Gowron had was the 'googly eyes'.
But yeah, the DSC S1 Klingon make-up was excessive (and I still haven't forgiven CBS for promoting the 'these aren't Klingons' rumour). The makeup at least seems to be less on the S2 Klingons.
And yes, unless those are some deep ridges, sorry @artan42, they're nostrils (although it does have to be said they do follow the same line as the ridges). Which evolutionarily speaking makes no sense because as far as redundancy goes having a second pair of nostrils in the same place as the first has no benefit whatsoever (and the whole 'Klingon's have two of everything' thing is debunked in the very episode it originates from, because Worf still only had one spinal cord). It's a case of following the word of previous writers (or in this case, the fanbase more widely) without actually understanding why that rule exists.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
And yes, unless those are some deep ridges, sorry @artan42, they're nostrils (although it does have to be said they do follow the same line as the ridges).
That's the point. They are deep because all the makeup is exaggerated over previous versions but especially everything around the nose and cheeks. The reason they follow the same line as the ridges is because they are the ridges. It only looks significantly different because there's heavy shading and because the nose is otherwise smooth.
Which evolutionarily speaking makes no sense because as far as redundancy goes having a second pair of nostrils in the same place as the first has no benefit whatsoever (and the whole 'Klingon's have two of everything' thing is debunked in the very episode it originates from, because Worf still only had one spinal cord). It's a case of following the word of previous writers (or in this case, the fanbase more widely) without actually understanding why that rule exists.
People like to latch on to little insignificant parts of dialogue that aren't meant to be taken in the literal sense (kinda like dialogue in real life). Hearing that Klingons apparently have redundant of all organs makes them assume what they're seeing are nostrils (same with the double stream which could be a body mod, piercing, STI, or he's accidentally punctured his hip flask with those stupid talons it was cool to grow back then).
DSC Klingons don't have holes down the side of their heads, they don't have any apex senses and they don't have four nostrils. Thy just have really poorly done, stiff makeup that exaggerates the already existing features to ridiculous levels (except for the stupid melted ears, there's no excuse for that).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
People like to latch on to little insignificant parts of dialogue that aren't meant to be taken in the literal sense (kinda like dialogue in real life). Hearing that Klingons apparently have redundant of all organs makes them assume what they're seeing are nostrils (same with the double stream which could be a body mod, piercing, STI, or he's accidentally punctured his hip flask with those stupid talons it was cool to grow back then).
DSC Klingons don't have holes down the side of their heads, they don't have any apex senses and they don't have four nostrils. Thy just have really poorly done, stiff makeup that exaggerates the already existing features to ridiculous levels (except for the stupid melted ears, there's no excuse for that).
Fair enough, however at some point it's grasping at straws. Of course only screen canon is canon, however that doesn't mean that the people creating it have no say in the matter. When the writers say they joked about "Klingons have two of everything" and made a scene specifically to show they have two penii than I take that for granted until it is revoked by on-screen canon. What has been revoked this way is the "Klingon sensory gaps" along their skull, because lo and behold, Klingons suddenly do have hair - of course this is a result of people not reacting gently to the rewriting of decades of one of the most popular franchises on the planet and DSC staff scrambling to do damage control, but their cool ideas are now overwritten by on-screen canon. However, unless on-screen is inconclusive (because not everything needs to be shown or explained) at least I take writer's intent as the next best thing.
Whether or not they have four nostrils I don't know. Unless someone says that was supposed to be the case I'm indifferent. I do say it looks like they have and it's dumb but if they are functional nostrils, no idea.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
People like to latch on to little insignificant parts of dialogue that aren't meant to be taken in the literal sense (kinda like dialogue in real life). Hearing that Klingons apparently have redundant of all organs makes them assume what they're seeing are nostrils (same with the double stream which could be a body mod, piercing, STI, or he's accidentally punctured his hip flask with those stupid talons it was cool to grow back then).
DSC Klingons don't have holes down the side of their heads, they don't have any apex senses and they don't have four nostrils. Thy just have really poorly done, stiff makeup that exaggerates the already existing features to ridiculous levels (except for the stupid melted ears, there's no excuse for that).
Fair enough, however at some point it's grasping at straws. Of course only screen canon is canon, however that doesn't mean that the people creating it have no say in the matter. When the writers say they joked about "Klingons have two of everything" and made a scene specifically to show they have two penii than I take that for granted until it is revoked by on-screen canon. What has been revoked this way is the "Klingon sensory gaps" along their skull, because lo and behold, Klingons suddenly do have hair - of course this is a result of people not reacting gently to the rewriting of decades of one of the most popular franchises on the planet and DSC staff scrambling to do damage control, but their cool ideas are now overwritten by on-screen canon. However, unless on-screen is inconclusive (because not everything needs to be shown or explained) at least I take writer's intent as the next best thing.
Whether or not they have four nostrils I don't know. Unless someone says that was supposed to be the case I'm indifferent. I do say it looks like they have and it's dumb but if they are functional nostrils, no idea.
I'm wondering if like the Xindi, the Klingons have at least two sentient races alive by the time they got into space, both no more or less different in being Klingon, except for the fact one is larger and looks more ugly and the other is shorter but looks more human, if you like.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
People like to latch on to little insignificant parts of dialogue that aren't meant to be taken in the literal sense (kinda like dialogue in real life). Hearing that Klingons apparently have redundant of all organs makes them assume what they're seeing are nostrils (same with the double stream which could be a body mod, piercing, STI, or he's accidentally punctured his hip flask with those stupid talons it was cool to grow back then).
DSC Klingons don't have holes down the side of their heads, they don't have any apex senses and they don't have four nostrils. Thy just have really poorly done, stiff makeup that exaggerates the already existing features to ridiculous levels (except for the stupid melted ears, there's no excuse for that).
Fair enough, however at some point it's grasping at straws. Of course only screen canon is canon, however that doesn't mean that the people creating it have no say in the matter. When the writers say they joked about "Klingons have two of everything" and made a scene specifically to show they have two penii than I take that for granted until it is revoked by on-screen canon. What has been revoked this way is the "Klingon sensory gaps" along their skull, because lo and behold, Klingons suddenly do have hair - of course this is a result of people not reacting gently to the rewriting of decades of one of the most popular franchises on the planet and DSC staff scrambling to do damage control, but their cool ideas are now overwritten by on-screen canon. However, unless on-screen is inconclusive (because not everything needs to be shown or explained) at least I take writer's intent as the next best thing.
Whether or not they have four nostrils I don't know. Unless someone says that was supposed to be the case I'm indifferent. I do say it looks like they have and it's dumb but if they are functional nostrils, no idea.
I'm wondering if like the Xindi, the Klingons have at least two sentient races alive by the time they got into space, both no more or less different in being Klingon, except for the fact one is larger and looks more ugly and the other is shorter but looks more human, if you like.
Honestly... I don't think it's actually been explained officially in enough detail to say for sure if this isn't already the case.
Non-canon sources which explored the Klingon culture had them as industrial-scale slavers who cross-bred with various subject populations. There were literally hundreds of races of Klingons, each with some attribute of their conquered foes.
I can see why modern writers would feel horrified by such subject matter, and would feel, (rightly,) that their exposition on such subject matter, even if presented as a vile and nefarious practice, would be construed by some as endorsement of slavery and forced breeding.
People like to latch on to little insignificant parts of dialogue that aren't meant to be taken in the literal sense (kinda like dialogue in real life). Hearing that Klingons apparently have redundant of all organs makes them assume what they're seeing are nostrils (same with the double stream which could be a body mod, piercing, STI, or he's accidentally punctured his hip flask with those stupid talons it was cool to grow back then).
DSC Klingons don't have holes down the side of their heads, they don't have any apex senses and they don't have four nostrils. Thy just have really poorly done, stiff makeup that exaggerates the already existing features to ridiculous levels (except for the stupid melted ears, there's no excuse for that).
Fair enough, however at some point it's grasping at straws. Of course only screen canon is canon, however that doesn't mean that the people creating it have no say in the matter. When the writers say they joked about "Klingons have two of everything" and made a scene specifically to show they have two penii than I take that for granted until it is revoked by on-screen canon. What has been revoked this way is the "Klingon sensory gaps" along their skull, because lo and behold, Klingons suddenly do have hair - of course this is a result of people not reacting gently to the rewriting of decades of one of the most popular franchises on the planet and DSC staff scrambling to do damage control, but their cool ideas are now overwritten by on-screen canon. However, unless on-screen is inconclusive (because not everything needs to be shown or explained) at least I take writer's intent as the next best thing.
Whether or not they have four nostrils I don't know. Unless someone says that was supposed to be the case I'm indifferent. I do say it looks like they have and it's dumb but if they are functional nostrils, no idea.
I'm wondering if like the Xindi, the Klingons have at least two sentient races alive by the time they got into space, both no more or less different in being Klingon, except for the fact one is larger and looks more ugly and the other is shorter but looks more human, if you like.
Well, the comic book Debt of Honor has Kor turn up as a smooth-forehead Klingon and mention that he's on the outs with the government at the moment because the ridged-forehead ones have taken over. (The comic came out in '92, two years before "Blood Oath".)
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
> @mirrorchaos said: > I'm wondering if like the Xindi, the Klingons have at least two sentient races alive by the time they got into space, both no more or less different in being Klingon, except for the fact one is larger and looks more ugly and the other is shorter but looks more human, if you like.
There is zero evidence for that, be it in canon or behind the scenes. DSCs Klingons have so far no in-universe justification of being different and I really hope it stays that way. They wanted to have it their way, it didn't work, now they try to reduce the changes and nobody talks about it. I feel we are going full circle back to "we don't discuss it with outsiders" 😜
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Non-canon sources which explored the Klingon culture had them as industrial-scale slavers who cross-bred with various subject populations. There were literally hundreds of races of Klingons, each with some attribute of their conquered foes.
I can see why modern writers would feel horrified by such subject matter, and would feel, (rightly,) that their exposition on such subject matter, even if presented as a vile and nefarious practice, would be construed by some as endorsement of slavery and forced breeding.
Funny thing is that it's not far from canon TBH... Why do we have so many Klingon/Human hybrids? Because while Klingons might care about cultural purity... they don't really care about genetic purity.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Kirk: Gentlemen, I have seen what the Klingons do to planets like yours. They are organised into vast slave labour camps. No freedoms whatsoever. Your goods will be confiscated. Hostages taken and killed, your leaders confined. You'd be far better off on a penal planet. Infinitely better off.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Maybe the Klingons found a way to perfect slavery. You may not be able to effectively assemble a warp drive with a gun to your head but may be you will if the gun is pointed at a loved one.
And who says they use slave labor for high tech equipment. They could have a population mine all the raw materials on their planet and transport it to Kronos to be refined.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Maybe the Klingons found a way to perfect slavery. You may not be able to effectively assemble a warp drive with a gun to your head but may be you will if the gun is pointed at a loved one.
And who says they use slave labor for high tech equipment. They could have a population mine all the raw materials on their planet and transport it to Kronos to be refined.
Also, most of the cited reasons why slavery "doesn't work" are ignoring situations where people are raised to be slaves. If you grow up knowing disobedience means being painfully punished or worse and obedience means being not getting punished and allowed to live in something that's more comfortable than a prison cell....
Maybe the Klingons found a way to perfect slavery. You may not be able to effectively assemble a warp drive with a gun to your head but may be you will if the gun is pointed at a loved one.
And who says they use slave labor for high tech equipment. They could have a population mine all the raw materials on their planet and transport it to Kronos to be refined.
Also, most of the cited reasons why slavery "doesn't work" are ignoring situations where people are raised to be slaves. If you grow up knowing disobedience means being painfully punished or worse and obedience means being not getting punished and allowed to live in something that's more comfortable than a prison cell....
You need to read up properly on the history of the American South, because that's exactly how slaveowners tried to raise their slaves down here. Right down to trying to teach their slaves a selective interpretation of the Bible that justified slavery as God's will. You'll notice it didn't work out too well: they still required a huge infrastructure to keep their slaves in check (not running away, not revolting like Nat Turner) and it kept a significant amount of manpower that could've fought on the front lines against the Union tied up in their home territory, compounding their already huge manpower deficit compared to the North.
(Edited for grammar and clarity.)
Post edited by starswordc on
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Please don't lock down another thread with real life stuff. The world sucks, yeah, but when has it not?
The original reference was about why Klingons don't all look alike, and the sources I was referencing predate TMP and TNG. It was DS9 that tried to make a joke about something that was never a real issue and Ent that explained the joke as if it were a serious issue.
Whatever the Discovery Klingons look like is, to me, irrelevant. I don't care if the Enterprise has a red stripe on the secondary hull or windows on the upper saucer. It makes no difference to me. Why?
BECAUSE THESE ARE ARTIST'S CHOICES, NOT ACTUAL DEPICTIONS OF REAL THINGS!
There is absolutely no need for Andorians to have their antennae to be mobile and mounted on their foreheads, but if they are, so what? Heck, I'm down for purple Andorians too. Maybe a Samuel Jackson Andorian, there's just one purple. It does not matter. You and I have never seen a real Andorian, and neither has any artist. So they choose, create, and poof! Andorians no longer have stiff antennae on the back of their heads. Cool.
The story is the meat and the bone of every show. A good story is what we go to TV expecting to see. Remember that show that was about making monster costumes? It's still a hit, fifty years later right? Well, no. Because in the big picture monster costumes are rather boring when they don't have a story to go with them.
> @somtaawkhar said: > > > > Fun fact, Star Trek isn't real, nor does it try to be. > > Arguments of > >But slavery doesn't work IRL! > mean nothing in Star Trek.
This right here is so relevant to the always repeating discussions around here. Everything people think they know IRL have no meaning for a fictional universe that tells us it's rules through exposition. It's not *your real life*.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
That may very well be. But they still have and do that. Because that's what we are told 😜
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
> @somtaawkhar said:
>
>
>
> Fun fact, Star Trek isn't real, nor does it try to be.
>
> Arguments of
> >But slavery doesn't work IRL!
> mean nothing in Star Trek.
This right here is so relevant to the always repeating discussions around here. Everything people think they know IRL have no meaning for a fictional universe that tells us it's rules through exposition. It's not *your real life*.
Oh, come on, Targ. We're nerds on the Internet, arguing passionately about ridiculous topics is what we do.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Oh, come on, Targ. We're nerds on the Internet, arguing passionately about ridiculous topics is what we do.
Oh I agree. But pulling RL into these things is never fun, it's just irrelevant rambling. Discussing the fine print of the treaty of algeron by using screen evidence, that's nerding out. Saying it's like some real life treaty is not
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
Can't argue with that. Even if the only facial expression Gowron had was the 'googly eyes'.
But yeah, the DSC S1 Klingon make-up was excessive (and I still haven't forgiven CBS for promoting the 'these aren't Klingons' rumour). The makeup at least seems to be less on the S2 Klingons.
And yes, unless those are some deep ridges, sorry @artan42, they're nostrils (although it does have to be said they do follow the same line as the ridges). Which evolutionarily speaking makes no sense because as far as redundancy goes having a second pair of nostrils in the same place as the first has no benefit whatsoever (and the whole 'Klingon's have two of everything' thing is debunked in the very episode it originates from, because Worf still only had one spinal cord). It's a case of following the word of previous writers (or in this case, the fanbase more widely) without actually understanding why that rule exists.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Wait, they did that??
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. :P
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Correct. As I said.
No, they have ridges, deeped, but otherwise identical in form to the TNG ones.
Well with his excessive track record of being right about everything related to DSC that's my argument out of the water.
That's the point. They are deep because all the makeup is exaggerated over previous versions but especially everything around the nose and cheeks. The reason they follow the same line as the ridges is because they are the ridges. It only looks significantly different because there's heavy shading and because the nose is otherwise smooth.
People like to latch on to little insignificant parts of dialogue that aren't meant to be taken in the literal sense (kinda like dialogue in real life). Hearing that Klingons apparently have redundant of all organs makes them assume what they're seeing are nostrils (same with the double stream which could be a body mod, piercing, STI, or he's accidentally punctured his hip flask with those stupid talons it was cool to grow back then).
DSC Klingons don't have holes down the side of their heads, they don't have any apex senses and they don't have four nostrils. Thy just have really poorly done, stiff makeup that exaggerates the already existing features to ridiculous levels (except for the stupid melted ears, there's no excuse for that).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Fair enough, however at some point it's grasping at straws. Of course only screen canon is canon, however that doesn't mean that the people creating it have no say in the matter. When the writers say they joked about "Klingons have two of everything" and made a scene specifically to show they have two penii than I take that for granted until it is revoked by on-screen canon. What has been revoked this way is the "Klingon sensory gaps" along their skull, because lo and behold, Klingons suddenly do have hair - of course this is a result of people not reacting gently to the rewriting of decades of one of the most popular franchises on the planet and DSC staff scrambling to do damage control, but their cool ideas are now overwritten by on-screen canon. However, unless on-screen is inconclusive (because not everything needs to be shown or explained) at least I take writer's intent as the next best thing.
Whether or not they have four nostrils I don't know. Unless someone says that was supposed to be the case I'm indifferent. I do say it looks like they have and it's dumb but if they are functional nostrils, no idea.
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I'm wondering if like the Xindi, the Klingons have at least two sentient races alive by the time they got into space, both no more or less different in being Klingon, except for the fact one is larger and looks more ugly and the other is shorter but looks more human, if you like.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
My character Tsin'xing
I can see why modern writers would feel horrified by such subject matter, and would feel, (rightly,) that their exposition on such subject matter, even if presented as a vile and nefarious practice, would be construed by some as endorsement of slavery and forced breeding.
Well, the comic book Debt of Honor has Kor turn up as a smooth-forehead Klingon and mention that he's on the outs with the government at the moment because the ridged-forehead ones have taken over. (The comic came out in '92, two years before "Blood Oath".)
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
> I'm wondering if like the Xindi, the Klingons have at least two sentient races alive by the time they got into space, both no more or less different in being Klingon, except for the fact one is larger and looks more ugly and the other is shorter but looks more human, if you like.
There is zero evidence for that, be it in canon or behind the scenes. DSCs Klingons have so far no in-universe justification of being different and I really hope it stays that way. They wanted to have it their way, it didn't work, now they try to reduce the changes and nobody talks about it. I feel we are going full circle back to "we don't discuss it with outsiders" 😜
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My character Tsin'xing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Kirk: Gentlemen, I have seen what the Klingons do to planets like yours. They are organised into vast slave labour camps. No freedoms whatsoever. Your goods will be confiscated. Hostages taken and killed, your leaders confined. You'd be far better off on a penal planet. Infinitely better off.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
And who says they use slave labor for high tech equipment. They could have a population mine all the raw materials on their planet and transport it to Kronos to be refined.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
My character Tsin'xing
You need to read up properly on the history of the American South, because that's exactly how slaveowners tried to raise their slaves down here. Right down to trying to teach their slaves a selective interpretation of the Bible that justified slavery as God's will. You'll notice it didn't work out too well: they still required a huge infrastructure to keep their slaves in check (not running away, not revolting like Nat Turner) and it kept a significant amount of manpower that could've fought on the front lines against the Union tied up in their home territory, compounding their already huge manpower deficit compared to the North.
(Edited for grammar and clarity.)
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The original reference was about why Klingons don't all look alike, and the sources I was referencing predate TMP and TNG. It was DS9 that tried to make a joke about something that was never a real issue and Ent that explained the joke as if it were a serious issue.
Whatever the Discovery Klingons look like is, to me, irrelevant. I don't care if the Enterprise has a red stripe on the secondary hull or windows on the upper saucer. It makes no difference to me. Why?
BECAUSE THESE ARE ARTIST'S CHOICES, NOT ACTUAL DEPICTIONS OF REAL THINGS!
There is absolutely no need for Andorians to have their antennae to be mobile and mounted on their foreheads, but if they are, so what? Heck, I'm down for purple Andorians too. Maybe a Samuel Jackson Andorian, there's just one purple. It does not matter. You and I have never seen a real Andorian, and neither has any artist. So they choose, create, and poof! Andorians no longer have stiff antennae on the back of their heads. Cool.
The story is the meat and the bone of every show. A good story is what we go to TV expecting to see. Remember that show that was about making monster costumes? It's still a hit, fifty years later right? Well, no. Because in the big picture monster costumes are rather boring when they don't have a story to go with them.
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> Fun fact, Star Trek isn't real, nor does it try to be.
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> Arguments of
> >But slavery doesn't work IRL!
> mean nothing in Star Trek.
This right here is so relevant to the always repeating discussions around here. Everything people think they know IRL have no meaning for a fictional universe that tells us it's rules through exposition. It's not *your real life*.
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Oh, come on, Targ. We're nerds on the Internet, arguing passionately about ridiculous topics is what we do.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Oh I agree. But pulling RL into these things is never fun, it's just irrelevant rambling. Discussing the fine print of the treaty of algeron by using screen evidence, that's nerding out. Saying it's like some real life treaty is not
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