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The Honorless Path of a Warrior -OR- A Call for KDF Parity
burstdragon323
Member Posts: 853 Arc User
With DSC content now arriving it's time to look at what the team could do to make things right with the KDF playerbase.
<Timeline>
According to the STO Wiki's history of Release Notes, we know that:
The last Major Update to the KDF that wasn't an agnostic update was May 21st, 2013.
The last Major Update to the FED that wasn't an agnostic update was Oct 9th, 2018.
The Last Major Update before Oct 9th, 2018 was on Feb 14th, 2017.
This means that the KDF has not received a pure-faction update in 5 years, 4 months, & 18 days.
The Klingons have no TOS Faction.
The Klingons have no DSC Faction.
---
<Ships & Unique Equipment>
There are many ships that the KDF have no equivalent, and some even got Tier 6 updates that the KDF were not included in. Some examples include:
T6 Jupiter Carrier=NONE (Should be a Vo'Quv here)
T6 Vizier Assault Cruiser, comes with Wide-Angle Quantum Torpedo=NONE (T6 Vor'Cha was repurposed into an Ambassador, completely ignoring Kamarag)
T6 Heavy Escort Carrier, comes with Torpedo Barrage console=NONE
T6 Intel Science Ship=NONE
T6 Intel Cruiser=NONE
T6 Escort=NONE
TOS Federation Starships=NONE
DSC Federation Starships=NONE
To this day, these items/consoles are still not available outside of lockboxes.
<First City>
Last Major Update was on July 7th, 2011. To compare, ESD went through two Major Updates since then.
Last Change was the addition of a Bank console in the shipyard.
ESD is cohesive and easy to navigate, First City is a maze with services all over the outer edges of the map.
Shipyard has had the same ships outside the viewport since the launch of the Mogh Battlecruiser.
<Immersion>
KDF (and by extension, Romulan) computer voices and alert sounds removed and replaced with the Federation Computer voice and Alert Sound.
Most conversations in recent content have very little KDF felling to them, feeling like cheap Federation copypastas.
<Timeline>
According to the STO Wiki's history of Release Notes, we know that:
The last Major Update to the KDF that wasn't an agnostic update was May 21st, 2013.
The last Major Update to the FED that wasn't an agnostic update was Oct 9th, 2018.
The Last Major Update before Oct 9th, 2018 was on Feb 14th, 2017.
This means that the KDF has not received a pure-faction update in 5 years, 4 months, & 18 days.
The Klingons have no TOS Faction.
The Klingons have no DSC Faction.
---
<Ships & Unique Equipment>
There are many ships that the KDF have no equivalent, and some even got Tier 6 updates that the KDF were not included in. Some examples include:
T6 Jupiter Carrier=NONE (Should be a Vo'Quv here)
T6 Vizier Assault Cruiser, comes with Wide-Angle Quantum Torpedo=NONE (T6 Vor'Cha was repurposed into an Ambassador, completely ignoring Kamarag)
T6 Heavy Escort Carrier, comes with Torpedo Barrage console=NONE
T6 Intel Science Ship=NONE
T6 Intel Cruiser=NONE
T6 Escort=NONE
TOS Federation Starships=NONE
DSC Federation Starships=NONE
To this day, these items/consoles are still not available outside of lockboxes.
<First City>
Last Major Update was on July 7th, 2011. To compare, ESD went through two Major Updates since then.
Last Change was the addition of a Bank console in the shipyard.
ESD is cohesive and easy to navigate, First City is a maze with services all over the outer edges of the map.
Shipyard has had the same ships outside the viewport since the launch of the Mogh Battlecruiser.
<Immersion>
KDF (and by extension, Romulan) computer voices and alert sounds removed and replaced with the Federation Computer voice and Alert Sound.
Most conversations in recent content have very little KDF felling to them, feeling like cheap Federation copypastas.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Funny, but that's what happened with Worf too. In TNG we learned that Klingons were part of a rich and vibrant culture that had a high tolerance for violence.
Of course, it was then turned into a diseased decadent culture about ready to fall from its vine and splatter on the ground by later writers and producers, but for a while there the noble Viking/Samurai warrior poets and scholars were a thing.
Plus if you want new Klingon content then you'll have to remove the biggest obstruction to it and that's Geko who has already gone on record saying that now the Klingon/Fed war is over (Pre-DSC) they no longer have to create single faction content.
However we may see KDF content next season as the AOD release did seem pretty rushed. However if nothing Klingon drops then you can likely say it won't whilst the Geko is around.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
And in fact the KDF has been the ONLY faction in that time that got any new exclusive content at all beyond the ones it started with.
Cryptic does not do faction-exclusive content. Period.
I can't fathom how you seem to completely, utterly, miss the point.
What we want is content from the KLINGON PERSPECTIVE.
Cross-faction content has conversation options and cut-scenes that make Klingons look like Feds in KDF skin.
I mean, all they have to do is give us a few more dialog options, but if even that is too much for them, you shouldn't get your hopes up about any KDF specific mission.
And as you pointed out, there actually has been KDF exclusive story content added in the past. So it is not that they lack fundamental technical or writing capability, or that they hate the KDF or whatever. It's most likely just that it did not pay off. There hasn't been any Romulan-Exclusive content after the Romulan Expansion either.
The only new faction-exclusive content we get is for starter content. So clearly a way to attract new players, but there isn't any real hope left that you could somehow attract a huge number of new players with new Klingon content.
Have a spare $10 million? Donate it to Cryptic and they'll hire new staff just to write KDF stories, add ships, costumes, weapons and whatever else you want.
It's not like this would require any more effort than giving a few additional response dialog options. The NPCs wouldn't even need to respond differently in most cases. I've always found this quite immersion-breaking.
Same with Agents of Yesterday, revisiting that era with new content specifically made to create a klingon toon who could have been a junior officer under Kor who was later flying one of those ships destroyed in The Battle of Caleb IV and then brought to 2410 by Daniels?
The KDF needs to be flesh out, as it stands the only captain you can really play is an honorable Klingon with everything tailored to what is, sadly, a very one dimensional species. They may have worked as the antagonist or where you have one Klingon on board a federation star ship but as cultures go its painful. Or at least the side that is portrayed in the game. Honor, honor, honor, honorless targ. This is a culture so stupid that after banishing someone for being an honorless targ you turn your back on him so he can stab you in it.
Whats strange is that the KDF have the greater variety (not number) of species that are part of it, yet then all get lost in the mass of Klingon specific dialogue. What is my Joined trill doing on the barge of the dead, we will later discover that these creatures of myth are generic constructs and this whole barge nonsense is simply superstition.
It would be really nice if they could make the KDF a little more inclusive and maybe have a Gorn flavoured mission or meet up with some Orions or even just have a single new tutorial mission where your not all about honor duels and being out smarted by a Federation agent. That or just a species neutral start mission where as a member of any of the non Klingon species you get a contact within your own government so their is some feeling that your not just a klingon thats been disguised as a Lethean etc.
While any argument not enough people play the KDF to make it viable, surely a large part of that is that you make the experience so generic and one dimensional it doesn't appeal to enough people so of course less people are going to play it. The same would be making one model of ship awful and then saying well there is no demand for that type of ship. But if that is the way just roll all the Klingon stuff into the fed experience and be done with it. Cause constantly neglecting it then saying there aren't enough people interested doesn't help anyone and just makes the experience for those that want to have a kdf specific species out of luck.
Burstdragon is referring to the TOS and Discovery starting experience options. Both are Federation only.
Let me put a little bit of this into perspective for you.
- May 21st, 2013 was the release of Legacy of Romulus, which was mostly geared for the Romulan introduction as a playable faction. What the expansion mostly did besides that was take the Klingons (whom up to that point had been locked behind a Federation play wall) and give them the full starting experience from level 1.
- February 14th, 2017 was the release of Agents of yesterday on Console. If you were looking to include this in your argument @burstdragon323 then you should have used the date for the PC version, which was July 6th, 2016.
Klingons have no TOS Faction and at the time that it was brought up (which was pre-Discovery), there wasn't enough really known about the Klingon culture in TOS canon that they could justify making a separate Klingon faction.
Now, DSC would be a different story, as we're given background story on the Klingon houses and how they have no unity (and thus had to be unified by a leader). However, we still don't have quite enough story to go on yet as to why they went from being apparently unified from the mid 22nd century to a great civil war between the 24 houses. Since there's no information as to what happened in canon, there's Not enough information to justify even this alternate starting experience.
Okay now for ships, I can pretty much go through all of these and try to explain the reasoning here:
- T6 Jupiter carrier with no Klingon T6 equivalent: Technically the Vo'quv also lacks a C-store version, as this was a free level up ship.
- Vizier Assault Cruiser equivalent: Klingons don't even have an equivalent ship to the Assault Cruiser, so they would have had to come up with an original design.
- T6 Heavy Escort Carrier: When they did the Armitage as a T6 ship, they introduced a T6 version of the Qin Raptor, which like the Vo'quv had no C-store equivalent. Since the introduciton of T6, it's rare to see them do a T5 ship or lower these days outside of a lock box.
- T6 Intel Science ship: This makes sense that they don't have this one as it was introduced long before the Research science vessel and the Science Multimission explorer ships were introduced. Romlulans don't even have the equivalent of this one.
- T6 Intel Cruiser: One could argue here that although the Klingons don't even use full Cruisers, a battle cruiser could be close as they do have an intel battle cruiser. Again, Romulans don't even have cruisers.
- T6 Escort: Now this is essentially just a nitpick here. Klingons prior to T6 didn't even have an Escort (introduced with the Ferasan Escort). Cryptic though did include the Kor in a bundle called a Escort bundle which included the for Feds the T6 Defiant and for Romulans, the T6 T'varo aka the Malem.
TOS Klingon equivalent starships: Out of the ships that the Klingons were using in 2270 in-game, one has been made into an R&D box ship, while another was made into a Lock box ship. The last one, the D5 Raptor, has yet to ever see a playable deisgn.
DSC ships: Now, it's a little unfair to even talk about not having these, as the devs actually have made working models in game. Anytime that they make ships in the game, they almost always will make them available in some way. In this case, there's at least 3 models I know of that are in the game that they'll likely make playable at some point.
ESD's 1st change if I recall right was just an exterior change from one model to the one from the TOS era movies. The interior though did change.
For me, First City though while probably could use a pass over in terms of textures, I don't think it really calls for the same kind of update that both ESD and DS9 got where they made it easier to find things. First City is meant to be a city so it makes sense things are more spread out.
But then they added a large amount of it, giving both factions content rivaling that of the Federation in size (and in the Romulan case, I'd say exceeding them in quality).
I am sure that got them new players to the game. But, be realistic - would adding more content really add another batch of new players? If the existing offering didn't entice them, why would more really do it?
But there is also another perspective:
Let's say in a good year, Cryptic makes 12 missions, a mission each month on average. All of them faction-agnostic. Every player can play them, regardless of personal faction preferences. On average, you'd wait one month for new content.
Now imagine they'd split all those missions across the 3 factions in the game. That's 4 faction exclusive missions for the Romulans, 4 for the Klingons, 4 for the Federation. You're a Klingon-exclusive player - you have to wait for any 3 months for new content. By the time the next mission comes around, you probably already forget what the story arc was about. Or forget logging into the game.
But imagne that only 20 % of the people play Romulans, and only 20 % o the people play Klingons. If they put out a Klingon mission, that could mean that 80 % of the players got nothing. And if they put out a Romulan mission, again, 80 % of the players got nothing. Is that economical sensible? Is it really fair to the 80% that are waiting?
And what good would it be to keep the 20 % Romulans or Klingons good if you'd lose 20 % players because they were Federation fans and didn't get anything to do?
I totally think they should improve their writing a bit to give us a bit more options how to respond character/faction-appropriate. But there is really no good economical reason to make a bunch of faction-agnostic content, unless there is some untapped fanbase out there sometimes. Getting TOS nostalgics or DISCO newcomers certainly reaches a new potential fanbase. But even there, the economy suggests that you have to get them onto faction-agnostic content quickly, as well. If you can't keep them with that alone, then the effort of keeping them could actually cost you elsewhere, quite possibly more than you gained in the first place.
Cryptic has the numbers. (And not just those nice Infographics. They are just for entertainment purposes, and contain basically no meaningful information). They can form a good idea on what of their efforts pays off, and what costs them what.
I think Cryptic should put more effort to ensure its writing leaves options that feel appropriate for different factions at minimum, ideally also sometimes culture specific (so Vulcans don't react overemotional, Orions don't need to pretend their honorobsessed Warriors that wish to eat the heart of their enemies, and Romulans don't have to act like they always play with all cards layed out open on the table.) It is extra effort, but it's not the magnitude of an entirely separate mission, and it greatly would improve immersion and at least some semblance of player agency.
Ever single series of Star Trek so far has focused on Starfleet. So it's pretty much pointless to claim there would be much of a difference. I mean sure, there could always be less non-Starfleet stuff in Star Fleet Online, but saying there should be much more than what there is would not really fit what Star Trek was about.
Mustrum "Is the Edit Monster Still a Thing? Better Safe Than Sorry" Ridcully
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Judging by how you argue, I'm guessing you're a hardcore Fed who loves being the apple of Cryptic's eye....every time someone argues for some love for the unloved factions you come rushing in trying to rain on peoples parades.
If you're trying to claim that any of the other factions are near equal, as you are. That is a bald faced lie....
Klingons haven't gotten access to all the specialty ships...there are no Klingon or Romulan version of the Scryer or Phantom first off...there are no ships that compare to the line of Temporal ships Feds got...only ships that KDF even got access to are 29th or 31st Century Fed flavored. Still no KDF/RR versions of the Jupiter (Which I suppose died when Trendy was unfortunately let go).
There is also a lot more than just the ship catalog that pails in comparison to Feds. You want to argue there wasn't much to be known about TOS Klingons? Well there was only really one Fed ship in TOS but Cryptic was able to make a entire expansion and a armada of Fed ships despite the only really known ship being the Constitution Class.
If we can make factions that consist of just a few races what is wrong with just one or two? Could of made the faction with two races...standard and perhaps augment virus Klingons? We know by TMP Klingons look normal again, who is to say they didn't start changing back in TOS? Not like it would be super bendy of canon to say perhaps they did?
Plenty that could be done, but they show massive favoritism towards Feds...and that will never change...they gave Romulans and Jem Hadar access to allied ships just so they can can put even less work into fractions that aren't Fed fractions.
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU BOUGHT KLINGON MERCHANDISE?
The bottom line is the bottom line. That's the equation! (As Ruk would say.)
If you own everything Klingon that Cryptic sells, then you need to encourage your friends to buy Klingon. If everything Cryptic makes with a Klingon flavor sells off the shelves, I promise you that Klingon stuff will be made.
But you have to put your Euros where your mouth is. Fervor without sales is going to get you nothing but ignored. Cash, the stuff developers use to pay rent and buy groceries, will get their attention.
Sorry, but the Klingons and Romulan factions have more unique Episodes than Feds (2409), and with the removal of a number of Klingon War episodes, they even more!
Now STO already has a time trevelling episode around Galorndon Core in the past where those 23rd century Romulans were seen, and knowing what Romulans were like back then, it wouldn't take much to come up with some story around imperial rule, dealing in treachery to the Federation and keeping the Klingons in check as well.
i can see a story as to how a Romulan lieutenant saw the horrors of serving in the imperial service could end up getting betrayed by his or her own commanding officer on another ship as they destroy your ship, Daniels pulls you out the timeline explains what is going on and from there you need to talk with Subcommander Kail in the 25th, because now you are a Romulan temporal agent on Virinat who needs to find a way to D'tan's fleet but deal with Colonel Hakeev as well.
In my opinion there would be even more cause to hate the former Imperial life from a Romulan who has experienced it and lived it and been on the otherside of it with Hakeev as well.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
sure 170 or 180 is old for a romulan (I assume they live just as long vulcans).