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Um. Is Cryptic refusing to use certain main characters if they can't get the actor to do VO?
trekfangrrrl
Member Posts: 111 Arc User
Without naming names, there are several other Trek games (mainly mobile) that feature pictures and voice clips(from the shows) of main characters like Kirk, Picard, etc. So apparently CBS is letting those games use those characters likenesses and voice clips, even if the actors aren't doing custom VOs for those games. So I guess my question is this: if STO actually allowed by CBS to use those main characters in missions, but Cryptic just refuses to do so unless they can get the actors to do custom VO for the missions?
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To be honest, we've probably statistically had TOO MANY show up already.
Can someone explain something to me?: how does a small mobile game like Timelines or Adversaries have virtually every Trek character's likeness, including the big names? There is no way they are paying to get Shatner, Stewart, etc. So how do those games get to use those likenesses, but STO does not?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
If you mean "not as expensive" to create for the art team, I understand that. But I'm referring to paying the actor to use their likeness. Are you saying Cryptic would have to pay Shatner more for an NPC in this game than the mobile game would have to pay Shatner to use dozens of his pics (as Timelines for example has multiple versions of the same character, like "ripped shirt Kirk" vs "Mirror Kirk", etc)? Or were you just referring to the cost for the game's art team?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I don't know if this is entirely accurate anymore considering who we see Sela asking about Tasha Yar...
Right, but that's just what they are doing in current time. Like it or hate it, this game makes liberal use of time travel, so we could obviously have missions taking place when those characters were in their command positions from the shows. Or if they really wanted to make it interesting we could deal with the Mirror 2409 version of some of the characters.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
But was it really a likeness issue, or a "no VO issue" like the OP describes? The question the OP really asked was could Cryptic actually uses theses likenesses like those mobile games are doing, or do they just choose not to use any major character they can't get VO from?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
^^ The best one.
No one here can give you anything other then a guess, and we already have the usual crew passing off their best guess as fact.
The actual fact is, we don't know anything about how the rights for likeness and images are handled with STO vs. other platforms. We don't know for sure if those other games even have permission, I have seen many games rip off other games and get away with it for years, it's not infeasible to think that they're just going until they get caught.
Everything you read here about why things work the way they do is nothing but a guess. You should take it as such.
Done that episode in one of my toons not long ago and really wanted a continuation of that...
Junae, Girquay, Meman'Ikan, Deanna, Elisa Flores, Nuno Espadinha, Heidi, Kolez, T'Vrell, Zarva, Vocan, Oeshi
Second of all, it looks like 90% of the people replying are missing my point. I'm not asking about cost, or whether actors had issues with CMs, or anything like that.
I'm asking is Cryptic actually able to use these characters (like the mobile games are doing) but REFUSING to do so if they can't get the actor to do custom VO lines?
That is the topic of the thread, not all that other stuff.
Answer: There's no evidence for this behavior and the basics of how likenesses are used (they must be specifically licensed) would seem to suggest that Cryptic's decisions are based on the economical use of characters and cameos so they can cover more material and at greater depth (ie. pull from a larger roster of actors rather than spending all their guest star money on a few big names. That may be vital for licensed mobile games, but an MMORPG needs more content and greater variety.)
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Well, whats the point of creating a Major character if you haven't got any V.O. to work from. There's also the little, and often forgotten, fact that content has to be approved by CBS as well. Whilst mobile games are using likenesses that have no V.O. they aren't having to jump through potential legal hoops, and wont be paying the actor as much. Cryptic has said that V.O. is expensive, so it's no surprise we haven't seen some characters. When Cryptic do eventually get old cast in, they do quite often get ret-conned into STO canon. They have done this multiple times.
So, are they refusing? No.
So obviously, none of us actually know the answer. However, my guess is essentially "yes"(that Cryptic is in fact choosing not to use actors they can't get VO from). Why? Because the game Timelines has artwork of virtually every character (both major and minor) from Trek. There is realistically no way they have made deals with all of those actors, especially the big ones. This suggests that simply through licensing with CBS they are able to use the Trek actor's likenesses in a Trek game. So yes, STO could probably do the same. But my guess is that (for reasons) they only want to use characters in their game that they can get to do custom VO work, meaning we will probably never see the really big names currently living.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
[Mod Hat] Sorry about that. I split the tangent to its own thread. [/Mod Hat]
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
And as some have pointed out to you, the cost (licensing cost, not artist cost) of full-motion 3D figures, may well be different (more) than the cost of some 2D static artwork.
(also, those mobile games, being super-cash-shop games with simple mechanics, probably have tiny production costs compared to how much they rake in from people trying to get Rare Character! from random packs.)
And as some have pointed out to you, the cost (licensing cost, not artist cost) of full-motion 3D figures, may well be different (more) than the cost of some 2D static artwork.
Ok, let's address that. The "some" you are referring to is 1 person who made a vague comment about price. It was unclear if they were talking about the cost for the game's art team, or the cost of likeness rights. I asked them to clarify, and they never replied.
Since you have raised this point again though, what is your basis for thinking what you just said?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
So, I'll plainly say to the OP: Yes, Cryptic is outright refusing to place them in game without real VOs by the actors AND they don't want to or cannot afford the cost of doing so. And I, for one, am glad. I'd rather have a whole free expansion rather than 3 missions where Picard gives me 3 lines dialog to go kill X enemy.
For my money Matt Winston, Michael Dorn, JG Hertzler, Tony Todd, Denise Crosby and Levar Burton settled back into their roles the best ingame. Most of the Voyager gang (not all) were great during Delta Rising, and out of the Victory is Life group Andrew Robinson was a smash as Garak. The others were a mixed bag with some sounding like they literally just read their lines, rather than perform them (ahem, Nana Visitor, cough).
Perhaps avoiding the biggest former Trek names would be desirable and sticking with secondary characters like Martok and/or Daniels is the way to go down the road?
STO's biggest issue is they do seem to funnel too much money into getting established lead characters from the shows into the game rather than creating their own or utilising the lesser known ones who were in a single episode but could be fleshed out.
On the one hand it's great to have them in game, some more than others, but on the other hand with the funds not going into the actual gameplay development you end up with a slew of acting talent being wasted as a thin veneer over wobbly and often broken gameplay.
Yeah, this sums up my own feelings pretty closely.
When's the last time we heard from Captain Shon or Miral Paris? What happened to Ja'rod making a push for J'mpok's throne? STO's original characters keep getting pushed aside or retired outright for the sake of an unending stream of cameos meant to grab headlines, rather than commit to a compelling original story in the Star Trek universe.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
That directly contradicts what Geko has said in multiple interviews. He has directly stated that due to the cost of certain high profile actors like Shatner and Stewart they could not realistically get them for the game.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Well, there are 2 possibilities:
1) Geko is lying
2) You might not have as much information as Geko
I'm going to go with number 2.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Stewart just has really high standards for the parts he does. If they have to integrate his new show, however, that leaves open the possibility that he might do some tie-in VO, similar to how we got the DS9 crew for ViL, or Mary Wiseman for AoD.
Okay, but he hasn't played a noteworthy role in any of those stories. Most of the time he just stands in the background, or drops a few one-liners at most.
A. She was a baby in Voyager, doesn't really count.
B. The Iconian War ended three years ago.
The original Klingon War storyline was dropping hints that he would challenge J'mpok one day, though they retconned that out a while ago. Would have been nice.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
American dad is lucky to pull in 1 million viewers per episode in the US, which barely makes the effort worthwhile, if at all.
Whatever you may think, the chances are that TBS is likely to cut American dad loose after season 17 because at the rate of decline? it will be lucky to make 500,000 viewers at that point. No, i very much doubt American dad could pay for Patrick Stewart by itself and i doubt it ever could. TBS is probably paying for Patrick and to them being apart of Warnermedia? meeting Patrick's demands is chump change to them.
I doubt PWI is likely to advance the costs to cover Patrick coming to STO, and Cryptic couldn't pay for him no matter what.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.