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Other Faction Story lines

Being a star trek fan, as much as i love the federation, this game has more factions than just the federation. More ofetn than not we get Fed only Expansions that completely cut out a good portion of your player base. Klingon has its on dictionary and there is a huge amount of lore and things to make a Klingon Expansion, yet we never see one. Discovery is going deeper into Klingon history and culture than ever before. yet here we have yet another fed on expansion. thats just bad business......period.

to only favor one faction and to even stop making ships for all the factions you have released is BAD BUSINESS, you alienate your customer base and then to only have a tutorial for the expansion is kinda lame as well. So what you gave us a Scaling Fed only ship, what about the rest of your customer base that does not play federation?

Something to think about before you start losing players, cause everyone i have spoken to made a discovery toon found out there was no benefit and deleted that toon, and went back to playing the toons that have grown to love for the factions they love.
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Comments

  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,631 Arc User
    Never going to happen, all they care about is Feds...any faction that isn't Fed gets little to no attention...been that way since it all started.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • scortch0scortch0 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    what you say is very true, but the only way to change things is if enough of the customer base speaks up
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 4,944 Arc User
    scortch0 wrote: »
    what you say is very true, but the only way to change things is if enough of the customer base speaks up

    Unfortunately this is an issue of return on investment, and the simple truth is Fed content is always going to get a much larger return on investment than any other faction content, simply because that is what the vast majority (over 70% using their own infographic numbers) play.

    If Cryptic has to choose between these 2 options...

    A - make non-Fed's sad by focusing on Fed content

    B - make Fed's sad by spending time on non-Fed content

    ...they are always going to choose option A. I definitely wish they could find a way to flesh out each faction, but unfortunately it just isn't going to happen.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,279 Arc User
    Honestly, this biggest problem regarding them trying to focus in on other factions at this point is that they have been focused in on cross-faction content for so long, that it doesn't really pay for them to go back and do new arcs now. Especially since the content lately has been including everyone as a whole. Look at VIL's opening, where you had the Klingons, Romulans, Dominion and Federation all taking stances on the problem with the Hur'q. Three of those four factions are in a large alliance since the end of the Iconian war.

    TSC_Signature_Gen_4_-_Vegeta_Small.png
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,555 Arc User
    scortch0 wrote: »
    what you say is very true, but the only way to change things is if enough of the customer base speaks up

    The customer base has been speaking up loud and clear since launch. Maybe you forget, but when the game launched the KDF was primarily a PvP faction. It had very little PvE content to begin with. Jack Emmert stood on that stage and bold-faced LIED to the audience when he announced STO as a two faction game with full PVE and PVP for both factions...

    The first overhaul of the KDF involved stripping it of the first several ranks AND the ships that went with them, so as a Klingon, you started at a higher rank and yeah, you could level to max from that point out with the limited KDF-specific PvE padding the process...

    It was not until PWE bought Cryptic and directed them to make leveling from 1 to max a thing for the KDF and be on par with the UFP in that regard, and that they do the Romulan faction. But what form did that take? Aside from some unique missions, at a certain point, the rest of the leveling process involves playing the SAME missions regardless of faction... And aside from introductory content, every new "faction" since Legacy of Romulus has been rolled into the same content track. Factions in this game are nothing more than origin stories for characters who are not 25th century Federation, but ultimately become part of the alliance.

    The customer base has been speaking out about this forever. If speaking out doesn't do any good, I don't know what will. Walking out won't matter, because it isn't going to effect their revenue stream, as there are more than enough people willing to fork over money for fluff that lets us just play the same repeated content over and over, but in a different ship or uniform...

    I would pay for mission packs that continue the LoR storyline prior to the point where we must choose KDF or UFP. I would pay for mission packs that continue the AoY storyline in the 23rd century. I would pay for mission packs in a series of stories set in the ENT era...

    The only language PWE, who let's face it, tells Cryptic what they can or cannot do, understands is money.

    Are you willing to directly pay for mission content for other faction storylines? If so, then great. Because that would be the only way, except for Discovery content, which they have said they plan to continue to roll out, you can hope to see it. And if not, then forget it. Every time I have suggested that they start charging for mission arcs, I get flamed to perdition by the "I want it all for free" crowd, with the common sentiment that they would quit if that happened.

    And THAT is your fan base, my friend...
    Cryptic Studios CAN'T
    because
    Perfect World Entertainment WON'T
  • scortch0scortch0 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    because at launch of game they screwed us. back in the day you had to have a lvl 25 fed toon to even make a klingon............again bad business model
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    We don't have factions, we have origin stories. And that's good.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 4,944 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    We don't have factions, we have origin stories. And that's good.

    Well, we definitely have a Federation faction. So we have 1 faction and many fRactions :D

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • scortch0scortch0 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    We don't have factions, we have origin stories. And that's good.

    typical Federation lover answer
  • jbmonroejbmonroe Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    From the get-go, Star Trek as a show has been about characters from the Federation. Complaining about the lack of stories for the Klingons and Romulans is a bit like complaining that there weren't enough North Korean-focused episodes of M*A*S*H.

    In this game, the Federation is the cake and everything else is the frosting. Out of 79 episodes, the Klingons occur in five. (I don't count "The Savage Curtain" because that Kahless was a recreation, not an actual Klingon--and the actual Kahless had been dead for a long time by the TOS era.) The Romulans occur in two episodes. On that basis, I think you've been very well served in STO. I'll even go out on a limb and say that in all the other series, the Klingon- and Romulan-heavy episodes are outweighed by the remainder.

    Look, dessert can be cake with frosting, or cake without frosting--but how many times have you been served dessert that was nothing but a plate of frosting?
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  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,555 Arc User
    In all fairness, I fully understand why the UFP is really the only fully complete faction...

    Star Trek, in all of its incarnations, has been about a Starfleet crew. Cryptic was up against some serious time constraints during development. Most MMOs have a pre-launch dev cycle of four to five years. The rights to develop a Star Trek MMO were first secured by Perpetual Entertainment, who in effect merely presented an illusion of development, and CBS called their bluff and stripped the license from them. Cryptic had a working, adaptable engine already so rather than requiring them to do a full license, the terms and conditions of the existing one were transferred to them from Perpetual. The catch was that the clock was not reset, so Cryptic had only two years to deliver a working product. And there were issues with the few completed assets from Perpetual, so pretty much everything had to be rebuilt from scratch...

    I honestly do not feel like they screwed us, so much as the announcement of the game was overzealous. In retrospect, I get the feeling that as the words were oozing out of Jack Emmert's mouth, the small dev team at Cryptic was looking on in horror, with a shared thought of "What the hell is he doing? Doesn't he realize we only have two years?" That is what happens when you let your chief Idea Guy talk about a project. He's going to talk about his vision as if it is a certainty.

    So there is the game Jack envisioned, and the game that was practical within the timeframe. We all wanted and dreamed of the former, but we got the latter. And because Star Trek has ALWAYS been Starfleet-centric, Starfleet at least HAD to launch as complete. And the vision for the game included a conflict between the UFP and the KDF, so the KDF had to at least launch playable in PvP.

    And Cryptic always had good intentions of realizing Jack's vision through post-launch development, and they probably would have but for then monkeywrench that nobody saw that got thrown into the works:

    Atrari/Infogrames… The original publisher and owner of Cryptic Studios was undergoing bankruptcy and more or less defunded STO, and even fired several key people, causing projects that were in the pipeline to grind to a hault. And it stagnated like that pretty much until PWE stepped in and bought Cryptic from Atari. And then the crunch began to at least make it possible for the KDF to level from 1 to Max through PVE, even if a lot of the missions were just KDF-flavored clones of UFP missions. PWE also greenlit the Romulan faction which also had to be levelable from 1-max. But because the game was not designed for true three-faction play, specifically in terms of PvP, after a certain point, leveling had to contine as part of the UFP or KDF.

    I have argued in the past that the Romulan faction starts off feeling just as independent as the UFP and KDF. But it isn't so hard to achieve that illusion when you start off only doing PvE. Now I have never been much of a PvP fan in any MMO, so I would have been content playing my NRR character strictly as PvE, just as I played my UFP character. I would have gladly paid real money for mission packs that added to an on-going NRR story arc, if it meant that I didn't have to roll him into either the UFP or KDF. But PWE does not want to charge for mission content, IE new stuff for us to do and experience, but is fine with charging for new fluff items we can use while doing the same old stuff over and over and over and over, with a very vocal "I want everything for free" crowd ready to shoot down any suggestion of monetizing actual content of substance...

    And that, is where we sit.
    Cryptic Studios CAN'T
    because
    Perfect World Entertainment WON'T
  • scortch0scortch0 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    jbmonroe wrote: »
    From the get-go, Star Trek as a show has been about characters from the Federation. Complaining about the lack of stories for the Klingons and Romulans is a bit like complaining that there weren't enough North Korean-focused episodes of M*A*S*H.

    In this game, the Federation is the cake and everything else is the frosting. Out of 79 episodes, the Klingons occur in five. (I don't count "The Savage Curtain" because that Kahless was a recreation, not an actual Klingon--and the actual Kahless had been dead for a long time by the TOS era.) The Romulans occur in two episodes. On that basis, I think you've been very well served in STO. I'll even go out on a limb and say that in all the other series, the Klingon- and Romulan-heavy episodes are outweighed by the remainder.

    Look, dessert can be cake with frosting, or cake without frosting--but how many times have you been served dessert that was nothing but a plate of frosting?
    typical fed lover answer, how can none of you who watch the series and play the game say what you say........Nemesis was about romulans, the whole reunification line with spock.

    You dont have an original idea in your statement, they can make up whole new series and garbage for the federation and you eat it up. spore drive........plz be real, infighting in starfleet.....again plz get real.

    So why is it so hard for you to get behind the idea of something new or is that to alien for you federation lovers
  • scortch0scortch0 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    history is more than just one side of a story. why even let people play those factions if they are just gonna be screwed over?
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 4,944 Arc User
    In all fairness, I fully understand why the UFP is really the only fully complete faction...
    I really don't understand how anyone can say this

    Romulans have more faction unique missions then any other faction, and Klingons have just as many as the 2409 FEDs, and besides the last ship pack, both the KDF and ROMs have gotten every single type of special ship be it intel, pilot, command flagship, multi-mission, etc. etc. that the Feds have gotten.

    Not only that, but the KDF and Roms got their own mission givers during Delta Rising, the Roms led the Dyson Sphere/Undine coalitions, and basically hosted every major political get together since then, and the KDF led both the Iconian War, and the Tzenkethi conflict, and saved the day during the Hur'q crisis.

    Like, what exactly are they missing to make them "complete"? They game wanks both of them off more then it does the Feds.

    I get what you are saying, but IMHO all of the "multi-faction" content is more Fed-flavored than anything else. So while the KDF and Roms might have their own faction specific arcs to start with, once you hit the multi-faction content you are basically playing as a Fed from them on.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,950 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    In all fairness, I fully understand why the UFP is really the only fully complete faction...
    I really don't understand how anyone can say this

    Romulans have more faction unique missions then any other faction, and Klingons have just as many as the 2409 FEDs, and besides the last ship pack, both the KDF and ROMs have gotten every single type of special ship be it intel, pilot, command flagship, multi-mission, etc. etc. that the Feds have gotten.

    Not only that, but the KDF and Roms got their own mission givers during Delta Rising, the Roms led the Dyson Sphere/Undine coalitions, and basically hosted every major political get together since then, and the KDF led both the Iconian War, and the Tzenkethi conflict, and saved the day during the Hur'q crisis.

    Like, what exactly are they missing to make them "complete"? They game wanks both of them off more then it does the Feds.

    I get what you are saying, but IMHO all of the "multi-faction" content is more Fed-flavored than anything else. So while the KDF and Roms might have their own faction specific arcs to start with, once you hit the multi-faction content you are basically playing as a Fed from them on.

    This. Said another way it's a question of roleplay potential: They don't write "multi-faction content"; with few exceptions they write Federation content and then replace a few of the names for KDF and Romulan characters.

    Examples:
    • Why does my Romulan have no option to approve wholeheartedly of Rai Sahen's Genghis Gambit in "Operation Cooperation Conspiracy", rather than weakly protesting as they do? (After all, much to Cryptic's credit the Romulan tutorial leaves your background remarkably open-ended: your character could be ex-Tal'Shiar him/herself and not have a problem with playing fast and loose.)
    • Why does my Romulan or my Klingon not point out to Mister Supposedly-a-Special-Operator in "House Pratfall" that their ship already has a cloaking device and they don't need his area-effect cloak? Ditto "Quark's Lucky Seven" (my one quibble with that mission).
    • For that matter, why does taking any plot-related action at all, even talking to other people on the same ship, decloak you?
    • How about RP options for non-Klingon KDF characters: why does my Nausicaan or Lethean mercenary, or for that matter my Romulan or Fed, not have the option to call Emperor Leeroy Jenkins on his stupidity in "House Pratfall"? They don't care about quv, they're here to do a job. (And seriously? Attacking something that can vaporize you with a wave of its hands with a frakking sword?)
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
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    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 4,944 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    In all fairness, I fully understand why the UFP is really the only fully complete faction...
    I really don't understand how anyone can say this

    Romulans have more faction unique missions then any other faction, and Klingons have just as many as the 2409 FEDs, and besides the last ship pack, both the KDF and ROMs have gotten every single type of special ship be it intel, pilot, command flagship, multi-mission, etc. etc. that the Feds have gotten.

    Not only that, but the KDF and Roms got their own mission givers during Delta Rising, the Roms led the Dyson Sphere/Undine coalitions, and basically hosted every major political get together since then, and the KDF led both the Iconian War, and the Tzenkethi conflict, and saved the day during the Hur'q crisis.

    Like, what exactly are they missing to make them "complete"? They game wanks both of them off more then it does the Feds.

    I get what you are saying, but IMHO all of the "multi-faction" content is more Fed-flavored than anything else. So while the KDF and Roms might have their own faction specific arcs to start with, once you hit the multi-faction content you are basically playing as a Fed from them on.

    This. Said another way it's a question of roleplay potential: They don't write "multi-faction content"; with few exceptions they write Federation content and then replace a few of the names for KDF and Romulan characters.

    Examples:
    • Why does my Romulan have no option to approve wholeheartedly of Rai Sahen's Genghis Gambit in "Operation Cooperation Conspiracy", rather than weakly protesting as they do? (After all, much to Cryptic's credit the Romulan tutorial leaves your background remarkably open-ended: your character could be ex-Tal'Shiar him/herself and not have a problem with playing fast and loose.)
    • Why does my Romulan or my Klingon not point out to Mister Supposedly-a-Special-Operator in "House Pratfall" that their ship already has a cloaking device and they don't need his area-effect cloak? Ditto "Quark's Lucky Seven" (my one quibble with that mission).
    • For that matter, why does taking any plot-related action at all, even talking to other people on the same ship, decloak you?
    • How about RP options for non-Klingon KDF characters: why does my Nausicaan or Lethean mercenary, or for that matter my Romulan or Fed, not have the option to call Emperor Leeroy Jenkins on his stupidity in "House Pratfall"? They don't care about quv, they're here to do a job. (And seriously? Attacking something that can vaporize you with a wave of its hands with a frakking sword?)

    I'll be honest; sometimes I don't even bother reading a lot of the dialog, so a lot of the nuanced type responses you listed above don't even register as problems for me when I'm playing.

    The "problem" for me is not the dialog, but the actual activities of the missions themselves. Take the Defari arc for example. You are sent as a diplomat/ambassador. That works fine for my Fed, but it doesn't feel right for my Klingon regardless of whatever flavored text they put in.

    Basically, I just don't feel like I'm actually playing for the Empire anymore once you hit the multi-faction content. I feel like I'm just part of "one big happy fleet" Khan mentioned.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,566 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    scortch0 wrote: »
    history is more than just one side of a story. why even let people play those factions if they are just gonna be screwed over?

    You're not getting "screwed over" by only being able to play some faction-specific missions before you join the shared content. You're just not getting as much faction-specific content as you'd like to see.

    Even for federation, many of us would love to have another 20+ TOS-era missions to play.

    Unfortunately, Cryptic is a business. 70+% of players want to play as a 2409 fed captain first, with other content as an afterthought. The 70+% keep the lights on.

    WoW can afford to have more balanced factions because they charge money for expansions on top of charging a monthly subscription fee, and they have a lot more players than STO.

    So: donate $10 million to Cryptic, or convince 1+ million new players to sign up and play as KDF or Domion or Romulan instead of as Fed. Make the business case for spending money on non-Federation-first shared content and pure non-Federation content. Until then, "letting your voice be heard" won't really change that it's one voice in a Federation sea of voices.

    (Note: I like the non-Fed faction content. I have 4 Romulan captains, 3 KDF, 1 Jem'Hadar, 2 TOS. I just accept that Cryptic can't afford to make much of it.)
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    It doesn't matter how many dialogue options there are, someone would always want more. That isn't really an origin issue, either. Feddies complain there is no option to talk to every enemy before every fight just as much as klingons complain there is no option to punch the stupid NPCs in the face when they're being stupid. It's impossible to have every option.

    Regardless of origin, the story is written in a way that you do most of the fighting and others do most of the talking. As is rather common to videogames. Because if you give the player a lot of options in the dialogue, the next thing they'll demand is for those options to actually change the plot.
    I get what you are saying, but IMHO all of the "multi-faction" content is more Fed-flavored than anything else. So while the KDF and Roms might have their own faction specific arcs to start with, once you hit the multi-faction content you are basically playing as a Fed from them on.
    I've never really felt that way except during the Kobali stuff, which was being handled by the Federation.
    I never felt the kobali arc appropriate even for the Federation. For all that Captain Stick-up-his-butt quotes the Prime Directive to justify continuing the campaign in spite of the kobali deception, the whole thing is in fact a huge violation of it.

    That plot gave me a Tal'Shiar-ish vibe more than any of the playable origins.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,631 Arc User
    scortch0 wrote: »
    typical Federation lover answer
    I like all the factions, and I still think its a good thing. STO has already covered most of the major lore bits of both the Romulans and Klingons in each factions respective unique content, and in the cross faction content. There really isn't enough lore for either to try to give them totally separate faction stroylines.

    Doesn't mean they can't have their own story bits here and there...but as typical corners are cut and anything that isn't Fed is neglected.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,295 Arc User
    how long have I and others been asking for something uniquely KDF? I advocate a Gorn Civil War, but it could easily be something involving the Ferasans, or the Orions, which could be interesting, concidering probably 60% of KDF toons are female Orions...
    a whole unique KDF season, with 2-3 episodes where a fed char has to do something, maybe running medical supplie to somewhere.. but mostly KDF only stull. then another season for the Remans. what HAVE they been doing since Obisek went back to the vault? maybe they remans under Obisek finish off the Emire, or at least stops the RSE from destroying the Vault and New Romulus.
    Spock.jpg

  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,631 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Doesn't mean they can't have their own story bits here and there...but as typical corners are cut and anything that isn't Fed is neglected.
    They do have their own story bits though, the whole Rodek/Kurn, Martok, and Torg stuff in the Tzenkethi conflict, and the Hur'q and Fek'Ihri stuff in the Gamma Quadrant arc, are things Klingon characters will appreciate more then the others.

    Just like how Hakeev's death in "Cutting the Cord" is different for Romulan characters, where the player gets to kill Hakeev instead of Obisek, due to the Rom player's personal grudge with Hakeev.

    Hell, the whole Discovery arc is
    >DUDE LOOK HOW COOL AND BADASS J'ULA IS!

    Everything that they have that is unique is years old by now, sure maybe they retooled some things here or there but overall KDF and RR haven't gotten and new stand alone content since LoR.

    Sure some of that stuff you mentioned involves Klingons...but it's seen from the viewpoint of Feds basically...because the game basically treats you as a Fed except for things which are programmed in like calling you General or First instead of Admiral.

    I played through the entire ViL chain as a Jem Hadar and it was still treating me like I was a Fed.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,091 Arc User
    scortch0 wrote: »
    typical fed lover answer

    While probably true (many here are Fed lovers. And also KDF and Rom lovers), this wasn't even a relevant point the first time you used it in this thread.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,169 Arc User
    The last time there were Faction specific missions for the KDF / Roms was with the release of LOR. That is YEARS and YEARS ago. Cryptic went with the "Everyone play Fed Flavored Missions" because it was probably a lot of work coming up with KDF / Rom missions as they were pumping out Fed ones.

    I'd love to see more Faction specific missions. The Federation-Klingon War could have really been much more. But this isn't happening anymore, it hasn't for years. Everything is now Fed Flavored Generic.
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