Holodecks!

tigeraries · October 2018

that's right... they didnt have these in ST... not till Next Gen. Discovery Tutorial has em... see definitely not Prime Universe. haha what ya get for reskinning Fed Tutorial... full disclosure: have never watched a single episode of TRIBBLE so they could very well have featured holodecks on show... but Holodecks were never in original series and TRIBBLE supposedly takes place before.

tigeraries · October 2018

reyan01 wrote: »

They were, however, in the Animated Series.

but AS not canon right? least from what I know none of the comics, novels or games are canon... only live action TV shows and movies.

artan42 · October 2018

Yeah the tech exists in ENT and the Federation has them in the Conni by TAS. The Conni was built before DSC takes place. That's Encounter at Farpoint's problem with not having seen TAS not DSCs problem.

starkaos · October 2018

And there was one episode of Discovery that had something similar to Holodecks. It is possible that the Holodecks in the 2250s are just images and not something that can be touched like the holograms on the TNG Holodeck. So great for shooting targets, but useless for hand-to-hand combat.

danalee · October 2018

The show Enterprise had them... and that's before Discovery.

If that species joined the Federation, then the Federation would have that tech. Note in the DSC tutorial where they are, the holodecks are on Earth, not in the ship. It'd make sense that the first iterations of the tech would be planet side and possibly not able to be in Fed ships yet.

Also, the program ran is a small room with a few enemies... hardly something to rave about putting in any starship at that point.

You could argue in Star Trek II they didn't use a holodeck for the Kobayashi Maru so they couldn't have had them, but I'd counter that in such an intense training situation, that actual live-feed data would be required and it is unlikely that holodecks of the time would be able to both simulate look and feel as well as complete functionality. The extra data required to pull, process, and analyze possibly couldn't be done through simple lights and force fields.

lordsteve1 · October 2018

The viewscreens in TOS were supposed to be holo-projected but the budget didn't allow for such things. Same thing was meant to be in TNG but again the budget was too limited. Wasn't until DS9 that real holo-screens existed in the shows but they were technically always supposed to have been there.

This is just one of those issues with the tech in the 60's be limited so they couldn't show everything they wanted. Doesn't mean things didn't exist though. We have holograms now that are pretty great in real life, and we have barely gotten off Earth yet. I see no problem with something like a holodeck existing in DSC's time considering they have faster than light travel, transporters etc.

siotaylor · October 2018

The novelisation on TMP mentioned holodecks too, and holo-comms similar to discovery.

artan42 · October 2018

colonelmarik wrote: »

valoreah wrote: »

TAS is considered canon, yes.

Depends who you ask. Most of the time, it's not considered canon if it contradicts what's otherwise established in the regular shows (such as holodecks (and holocommunication, and force fields in shuttlebays, and Klingon cloaks, etc.) being from a later time).

CBS say it's canon then it's canon. You don't need to ask anyone.

psycoticvulcan · October 2018

Let's not confuse the "VR arcade" holodecks seen in Discovery with the "hard light with optional safety protocols" holodecks of TNG and onward.

artan42 · October 2018

colonelmarik wrote: »

Either way, it was stated straight up in TNG and DS9 that holodecks and holocommunication were new technology. The holodeck we saw in Enterprise was in the hands of some other race, not the Federation, and was given to the Klingons, NOT the Federation.

It's also outright stated in TNG that the Klingons joined the Federation. Retcons happen. And again, it's not a retcon anyway, it's the writers of 'Farpoint' not being aware of TAS.

colonelmarik wrote: »

Not true. If CBS decided to say the Star Wars franchise was now also Star Trek canon, that wouldn't make it so.
Either way, refer to my comments above.

Entirely true. They own the franchise. If they state Star Wars is canon to Star Trek it's because they are in a position where they can say that. They've either bought the franchise outright from Disney or done a case by case deal as they did for the Known Space material used in TAS.
So, again, refer to my comment above. TAS is canon as per the franchise owners statements of all TV shows and films being canon.

jade1280 · October 2018

Do you want the holograms to come to life and kill the crew?
Because thats how you get holograms gone mad.

siotaylor · October 2018

> @jade1280 said:
> Do you want the holograms to come to life and kill the crew?
> Because thats how you get holograms gone mad.

Tbh, after all the hologram-abuse we've seen throughout the series and game, I think we'd be more likely to see holograms with ptsd sitting in a corner rocking slowly, or curled up in foetal position and hoping the insane solids (yes, including changeling) will just go away and leave them alone.

starkaos · October 2018

azrael605 wrote: »

Discovery is canon, TAS is canon, Robert April is canon, the precursor tech seen on screen in Discovery's first season is currently using the name holodeck.

At least Discovery's use of the term Holodeck is far better than Hoverboards that don't hover and have wheels. There are only two types of hoverboard, any hoverboard similar to the ones from Back to the Future III even if they require a special type of floor to work and a hoverboard that is similar to a hovercraft.

nunoespadinha · October 2018

We have holograms and holo-comunication now, and it's 2018.. why shouldn't we have them in 2256 ??

warpangel · October 2018

It's called "Retroactive Continuity" (Retcon) and writers can indeed do that.

siotaylor · October 2018

As far as cannon is concerned, whether we believe CBS or Cryptic or Arc or anyone, this is some of what Gene Rodenberry had to say on the matter in the novel "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", which, like it or not is cannon, and possibly the most exploration based of all the movies or series so far.

Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Ch 1) wrote:

He felt a strange tingling coming from somewhere inside his head. It was as if some intricate mechanical pattern had started to form there. Then that pattern became a memory, and he realized that he was receiving a Starfleet command alert signal. He did not like the feeling of it—and knowing that it came from a device implanted inside his brain made it even more annoying. As was the custom in Starfleet—indeed, it was a requirement—he had been implanted with a senceiver on receiving his first command. It was the ultimate signal device, reserved for use in only the gravest of emergencies—and this was only the second time that Starfleet Command had ever intruded into his mind in this fashion.

Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Ch 1) wrote:

Then, as the message began to form in Kirk’s mind, it started as a powerful kind of daydream. At first a confusion of images, many of them vestiges of his most recent conscious thoughts of this vacation trip, the history studied, the museum here, the Libyan scholar. These arranged themselves into patterns which became symbols, faintly familiar alien symbols—then Kirk realized that these symbols were affixed to war vessels.

Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Ch 3) wrote:

“Gib comcon, I have an Admiralty staff officer requesting holocom contact with you. Stand by, please.” Vice Admiral Lori Ciani arrived. It was, of course, only her holocom image, but it was a surprise, nevertheless. It was a perfect transmission signal connecting the Gib station with Starfleet, and Lori looked so completely real and radiant that Kirk could suddenly hear his heart pounding as it always did whenever she came near him during that year they had spent together.

markhawkman · October 2018

artan42 wrote: »

colonelmarik wrote: »

Either way, it was stated straight up in TNG and DS9 that holodecks and holocommunication were new technology. The holodeck we saw in Enterprise was in the hands of some other race, not the Federation, and was given to the Klingons, NOT the Federation.

It's also outright stated in TNG that the Klingons joined the Federation. Retcons happen. And again, it's not a retcon anyway, it's the writers of 'Farpoint' not being aware of TAS.

Easiest way to reconcile it is to say the Riker's statement wasn't the tech in general but a comment about the specific model of holodeck.

artan42 · October 2018

siotaylor wrote: »

As far as cannon is concerned, whether we believe CBS or Cryptic or Arc or anyone, this is some of what Gene Rodenberry had to say on the matter in the novel "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", which, like it or not is cannon, and possibly the most exploration based of all the movies or series so far.

Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Ch 1) wrote:

He felt a strange tingling coming from somewhere inside his head. It was as if some intricate mechanical pattern had started to form there. Then that pattern became a memory, and he realized that he was receiving a Starfleet command alert signal. He did not like the feeling of it—and knowing that it came from a device implanted inside his brain made it even more annoying. As was the custom in Starfleet—indeed, it was a requirement—he had been implanted with a senceiver on receiving his first command. It was the ultimate signal device, reserved for use in only the gravest of emergencies—and this was only the second time that Starfleet Command had ever intruded into his mind in this fashion.

Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Ch 1) wrote:

Then, as the message began to form in Kirk’s mind, it started as a powerful kind of daydream. At first a confusion of images, many of them vestiges of his most recent conscious thoughts of this vacation trip, the history studied, the museum here, the Libyan scholar. These arranged themselves into patterns which became symbols, faintly familiar alien symbols—then Kirk realized that these symbols were affixed to war vessels.

Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Ch 3) wrote:

“Gib comcon, I have an Admiralty staff officer requesting holocom contact with you. Stand by, please.” Vice Admiral Lori Ciani arrived. It was, of course, only her holocom image, but it was a surprise, nevertheless. It was a perfect transmission signal connecting the Gib station with Starfleet, and Lori looked so completely real and radiant that Kirk could suddenly hear his heart pounding as it always did whenever she came near him during that year they had spent together.

Novalisations are not canon.

siotaylor · October 2018

> @artan42 said:
> siotaylor wrote: »
>
> As far as cannon is concerned, whether we believe CBS or Cryptic or Arc or anyone, this is some of what Gene Rodenberry had to say on the matter in the novel "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", which, like it or not is cannon, and possibly the most exploration based of all the movies or series so far.
> Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Ch 1) wrote:
>
> He felt a strange tingling coming from somewhere inside his head. It was as if some intricate mechanical pattern had started to form there. Then that pattern became a memory, and he realized that he was receiving a Starfleet command alert signal. He did not like the feeling of it—and knowing that it came from a device implanted inside his brain made it even more annoying. As was the custom in Starfleet—indeed, it was a requirement—he had been implanted with a senceiver on receiving his first command. It was the ultimate signal device, reserved for use in only the gravest of emergencies—and this was only the second time that Starfleet Command had ever intruded into his mind in this fashion.
>
>
>
> Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Ch 1) wrote:
>
> Then, as the message began to form in Kirk’s mind, it started as a powerful kind of daydream. At first a confusion of images, many of them vestiges of his most recent conscious thoughts of this vacation trip, the history studied, the museum here, the Libyan scholar. These arranged themselves into patterns which became symbols, faintly familiar alien symbols—then Kirk realized that these symbols were affixed to war vessels.
>
>
>
> Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Ch 3) wrote:
>
> “Gib comcon, I have an Admiralty staff officer requesting holocom contact with you. Stand by, please.” Vice Admiral Lori Ciani arrived. It was, of course, only her holocom image, but it was a surprise, nevertheless. It was a perfect transmission signal connecting the Gib station with Starfleet, and Lori looked so completely real and radiant that Kirk could suddenly hear his heart pounding as it always did whenever she came near him during that year they had spent together.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Novalisations are not canon.

Gene thought otherwise, and he knew better than you, or me.

artan42 · October 2018

siotaylor wrote: »

> @artan42 said:
> siotaylor wrote: »
>
> As far as cannon is concerned, whether we believe CBS or Cryptic or Arc or anyone, this is some of what Gene Rodenberry had to say on the matter in the novel "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", which, like it or not is cannon, and possibly the most exploration based of all the movies or series so far.
> Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Ch 1) wrote:
>
> He felt a strange tingling coming from somewhere inside his head. It was as if some intricate mechanical pattern had started to form there. Then that pattern became a memory, and he realized that he was receiving a Starfleet command alert signal. He did not like the feeling of it—and knowing that it came from a device implanted inside his brain made it even more annoying. As was the custom in Starfleet—indeed, it was a requirement—he had been implanted with a senceiver on receiving his first command. It was the ultimate signal device, reserved for use in only the gravest of emergencies—and this was only the second time that Starfleet Command had ever intruded into his mind in this fashion.
>
>
>
> Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Ch 1) wrote:
>
> Then, as the message began to form in Kirk’s mind, it started as a powerful kind of daydream. At first a confusion of images, many of them vestiges of his most recent conscious thoughts of this vacation trip, the history studied, the museum here, the Libyan scholar. These arranged themselves into patterns which became symbols, faintly familiar alien symbols—then Kirk realized that these symbols were affixed to war vessels.
>
>
>
> Gene Roddenberry, Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Ch 3) wrote:
>
> “Gib comcon, I have an Admiralty staff officer requesting holocom contact with you. Stand by, please.” Vice Admiral Lori Ciani arrived. It was, of course, only her holocom image, but it was a surprise, nevertheless. It was a perfect transmission signal connecting the Gib station with Starfleet, and Lori looked so completely real and radiant that Kirk could suddenly hear his heart pounding as it always did whenever she came near him during that year they had spent together.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Novalisations are not canon.

Gene thought otherwise, and he knew better than you, or me.

And CBS have the say not Gene.

thenoobcamper · October 2018

DSC is canon (not cannon, that is a type of projectile launcher). Even if TAS wasn't canon (which it is now considered Canon,), if DSC references it, that piece becomes canon. It would be absolutely stupid to think that the federation took well over 100 years to develop some kind of Holo tech when everyone else had holotech. The butterflies or whatever on rigel in the ENT premier were also holograms.

Rikers statement could easily be seen as referencing the more modern holodeck, where you can interact with the environment, like getting wet by falling in water (then somehow still being wet when leaving the holodeck).

annemarie30 · October 2018

siotaylor wrote: »

The novelisation on TMP mentioned holodecks too, and holo-comms similar to discovery.

you mean the holocomms that were new in season 7 of DS9??

khan5000 · October 2018

Or the holocomms we saw in Undiscovered Country

siotaylor · October 2018

It would appear that these days, the only thing we can be sure is canon is that things get retconned to fit the current narrative.

We were [I]always[/i] at war with [s] Eastasia[/s]the klingons.

artan42 · October 2018

Even retconned material is still canon. Canon is not the same as continuity.

The most obvious way of looking at this is the original usage of the term canon. The four gospels of the new testament are out of continuity with each other and the latest one (John) outright retconnes the previous three however all four are equally canonical to all Christian sects.

Holodecks!

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