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It is now more difficult to find, join and play many queues, not easier

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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,775 Arc User
    Well, I just did my first DRSA pug in YEARS thanks to the new system and it popped in about 2 seconds. So I don't know what the OP is talking about.

    wait for a few months and say that again.
    Gladly. I'll place a bet right now if you want.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    Well, I just did my first DRSA pug in YEARS thanks to the new system and it popped in about 2 seconds. So I don't know what the OP is talking about.

    wait for a few months and say that again.
    Gladly. I'll place a bet right now if you want.

    i don't do bets with people who don't want to err the side of caution.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,210 Arc User
    Well, I just did my first DRSA pug in YEARS thanks to the new system and it popped in about 2 seconds. So I don't know what the OP is talking about.

    wait for a few months and say that again.
    Gladly. I'll place a bet right now if you want.

    I would do so as well.

    In any case I’d judge the benefits of the RTFO to outweigh the disadvantages that we might have over the lack of queue information.

    Again, I really think that info would hardly be of use to anybody now even if we had it with the new RTFO in place. Maps simply auto-fill now no matter if 1 or 4 are in line for it.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,750 Arc User
    I agree that time is needed here.

    Everything is popular when it's new.. people naturally flock to new content or features. If enough players have bad experiences in random queues, they will eventually stop queuing. So far, my experience has been mostly positive and if that continues then I'll continue to use the system.

    It's way too early to tell right now one way or another how well this system will work in a month. If you're guaranteeing a result either way you're either a hater or a white knight and which ever category you fit into, you're equally annoying.

    Lets just see how things play out over time. After one day I would rate my opinion as 'cautiously optimistic.'
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,775 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Well, I just did my first DRSA pug in YEARS thanks to the new system and it popped in about 2 seconds. So I don't know what the OP is talking about.

    wait for a few months and say that again.
    Gladly. I'll place a bet right now if you want.

    i don't do bets with people who don't want to err the side of caution.
    I knew you were all talk.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    The fate of the random queues depends largely on the drop odds of the larger reward packs, which indeed require time to determine. Mathematically even the epic ones still can't compete with CCA, but the psychological draw of a large lump sum is high even if it strictly speaking loses in time efficiency, and CCA does have a cooldown, so there is a chance it'll be popular.

    Regardless, since the "why don't you play different content" -poll, I have come to the conclusion that removing the queue numbers is a benefit even for normal queueing. The display of empty queues was a negative feedback loop. A significant number of players were put off by seeing the queues empty and never even tried to join them. It's a self-fulfilling propecy, players don't join a queue because it's empty and the queue is empty because players won't join it.

    Now players have to try join queues to see if they'll pop instead of looking at the display and walking away, and if players join a queue it stops being empty.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,750 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    I have come to the conclusion that removing the queue numbers is a benefit even for normal queueing. The display of empty queues was a negative feedback loop. A significant number of players were put off by seeing the queues empty and never even tried to join them. It's a self-fulfilling propecy, players don't join a queue because it's empty and the queue is empty because players won't join it.

    You could be right.

    I know in my case, it doesn't work that way. For me, since I can't tell if it will pop soon or not, I just don't queue for it at all. I don't however, believe that everyone reacts the same way I do. It's entirely possible that my reaction is not the typical reaction.
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Also...pretty sure they don't have the players in queue shown because they don't want you to know that their system ain't working like how they said it would. They are hoping we are too stupid to figure it out manually. That the dead queues will still be dead and you basically have to use random if you want to do something other than ISA, CCA or now the romulan minefield.

    Yeah that is probably it.
    Hide the queued list and suddenly nobody has any feedback on the situation. Add in the Random TFO's and it looks like the game is busy and well populated because queues are popping. Thing is it's just hiding the problem, that many of the queues get ignored and never played due to any number of reasons (rewards, timegates, boring etc.).
    So it's giving the players the impression all is rosy when in reality Cryptic doesn't know how to make the queues enticing or fix their problems.
    They'll just install a system that randomly dumps you into anything to make it seem like it's all fine and good. They are pretty much admitting the only way to get you guys to play some of their content is to "force dump" you into it in a random way, otherwise you'd all just ignore it as you have done for the last couple of years.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,638 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    warpangel wrote: »
    I have come to the conclusion that removing the queue numbers is a benefit even for normal queueing. The display of empty queues was a negative feedback loop. A significant number of players were put off by seeing the queues empty and never even tried to join them. It's a self-fulfilling propecy, players don't join a queue because it's empty and the queue is empty because players won't join it.

    You could be right.

    I know in my case, it doesn't work that way. For me, since I can't tell if it will pop soon or not, I just don't queue for it at all. I don't however, believe that everyone reacts the same way I do. It's entirely possible that my reaction is not the typical reaction.
    While I cannot confirm what a typical reaction is, I can confirm a large group of players fall into the same reaction as you. I will be very surprised if the metrics do not show a sharp decline in the Elite queues and a decline in 6+ normal and 6+ advanced queues. Like yourself due to the changes I am not playing any queues. Not because I do not want to, but because the changes have stopped me from being able to choose and get into queues.

    For me its that bad that after my 3rd play session since the expansion and I have still failed to get into a single queue of my choice. I had no problems pre expansion.
  • philosopherephilosophere Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    Interesting thread, with valid points on both sides.

    Couple ideas I thought of while reading:

    EQCC - Elite Queue Chat Channel
    Is there not already a specific channel for this (or could one be created) so interested players can connect; create and play private elite queues? Has the advantage of discussing loadouts / strategies before starting, but may take some time (and PR to spread the word) in order to build a large enough community so it would fill promptly. Our community manager could help with setting this up and getting the word out.

    EQFE - Elite Queue Focus Events
    This one would require the devs to set it up and would appear in the main queue window so would get lots of attention. Would need to be limited to level 65 captains and have some sort of system based filter/evaluation system so poorly spec'd / outfitted captains would not be able to join, else it would be fubar at the get go.

    Both of these could/should be done in conjunction with the devs recent interest in helping better educate their players on game systems and how they work.
    Are we there yet?
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,638 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    I am not keen on that idea. The problem is not that people do not want to play elites. The problem is the bad design has stopped us from joining each other. Bonuses are not going solve the problem of not being able to see which queries are active and being able to pick the outs we like out of the actives.
    It's true that bonuses won't change the numbers you can see but honestly which elite queues when pugged popped over the last few years? Not many and none quickly after a sustained assault by anymarks RA's. A simple revert won't make anywhere near all of them pop. That's a solution that I would be looking for instead of just a simple reversion that doesn't do much more than make BOTSE and NTTE pop. Any ideas to generate more interest in all elite queues?
    Just rolling back the changes in the UI will cause a large increase over what we have now.
    I disagree as I said. Almost no elite queues popped as of yesterday. Personally, like you, I would like more of them to pop but I would aim higher than just 1 or 2 of them being possible. Do you have any actual ideas to make this happen? If rewards won't help then we need to think of something else. Something unique that will make elites more desirable. Because they weren't popping yesterday or the day before or the week before or the month before. A simple revert won't change that.
    While they did not pop often they did at least pop pre change. Now after the change they do not pop at all hence why I want the change rolled back as all it has done is make those queues harder to get into.

    While extra rewards will help that will not do anything unless they combine it with rolling back to the old system.
  • feordilagorgefeordilagorge Member Posts: 247 Arc User
    It's these "fail teams" comments that have made me reluctant to do a lot of STFs. Now I'm pretty much forced to do them if I want any marks and I'm usually lost unless the objective is to shoot anything that moves.

    So I'm apologizing in advance to players if I get in your queue.

    :)
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  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    Give it the 30 days when reps get done and TFO Task Force Operations will end up getting called Total Fail Online
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    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,332 Arc User
    Reasons why I dislike someone else deciding what and when I should play in STO.
    - Some STO content just does not interest me enough to spend my limited free time on.
    - The mission is poorly designed.
    - The effort to reward ratio does not correspond to other similar missions.
    - Coercion is a crappy thing to do to a customer.
    - I dislike it when people automatically assume they know what is best for me without any evidence to support this idea.
    - Too many Queues , excuse me, TFOs, have numerous well documented, and equally well reported, problems which have not been addressed by either the Devs or the bughunters. Gon'Cra BZ, anyone?
    - and of course right along with this, too many Queues. Excuse me, TFOs.
    - The "Bonus Marks and Dil!" for playing Random TFOs have simply been moved from one part of the game to another part. A bonus which draws resources from other parts of same system instead of increasing its overall worth by additional resources is not a bonus.

    This is me venting. I know damn good and well no one at Perfect World or Cryptic will do anything to improve this sorry state of affairs. Because over the last six and a half years I have only seen Perfect World or Cryptic admit they made a mistake once. And then only because their profits were getting smaller. The only people they respect are the ones who spend money on this game. Idiots like me.

    Nope. It ain't Discovery. Ain't Picard, either. It's you.
  • wildweasalwildweasal Member Posts: 1,053 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    Well, I just did my first DRSA pug in YEARS thanks to the new system and it popped in about 2 seconds. So I don't know what the OP is talking about.

    wait for a few months and say that again. don't be so quick to jump on it like the op is wrong before it has had a chance to show if it works or not.

    hey POt This is kettle ya think the OP should do the same GTFO

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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Regardless, since the "why don't you play different content" -poll, I have come to the conclusion that removing the queue numbers is a benefit even for normal queueing. The display of empty queues was a negative feedback loop. A significant number of players were put off by seeing the queues empty and never even tried to join them. It's a self-fulfilling propecy, players don't join a queue because it's empty and the queue is empty because players won't join it.

    While that is true...it also means with no feedback, people won't be willing to wait as long for a queue to pop if they really want to play it. And this whole the random queue funnels players into ones that other players selected seems to be a fraud since I have manually queued and waiting 20+ min for it to pop before giving up and doing something else. If populated maps are filled first, I shouldn't have to wait more than a few min with how often the random gets popped.
    The problem there may be that some queues don't count for random selection at all. In other words, random queues players are funneled into the queues the devs want to funnel players into.

    And of course, we don't have any feedback on how much random queues people actually play, either.
  • czechmarkczechmark Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    It's these "fail teams" comments that have made me reluctant to do a lot of STFs. Now I'm pretty much forced to do them if I want any marks and I'm usually lost unless the objective is to shoot anything that moves.

    So I'm apologizing in advance to players if I get in your queue.

    :)

    I sympathize, that's exactly my problem! Certain queues require a character to already have great gear, suitable ships, strong traits, suitable skill sets, and precision reaction times... none of which I possess nor have ever been able to figure out; and all of which is counterproductive if you're trying to get the gear to play it. Frankly, if I wanted that level of complexity, I'd rather do it for a job and be paid for it, and at least I wouldn't be messing with someone else's fun.
    azrael605 wrote: »
    You can't read the mission objectives shown clearly in the briefing? Not the game's problem there.

    The original poster says nothing about the game, just their challenges with complicated queues. At least have the decency to READ the post before you comment.
  • jbmonroejbmonroe Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    What...? I can't skip ground? Ugh. I don't do "Ground Trek."
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  • dongemaharudongemaharu Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    I’d regularly play elite queues, and that would take up a majority of my STO playing time. If there were 3 or 4 players in the box, I’d queue up myself knowing it would likely start relatively soon. And usually it would. At least there’s be a better chance.

    If no one was in the box, I knew I could be waiting a very long time. And this was almost always true. If I had time, doing exchange stuff, or messing with my gear, I’d queue up anyway, if there was no one or just one person there.

    But often I didn’t have time to wait what I knew could be 20 minutes, or 40 for something that may or may not happen.

    Now that I can’t see if anybody’s queued up, I’m not going to even bother with it unless I have time while doing domething else. This will drastically reduce playing time for me, especially for elite missions.

    That’s what I liked doing the most, and I’m not going to sit there in the dark not knowing what the chances of starting are. But playing the game less is fine with me. I’ll just play something else, and if I’m in the mood to chill in the STO environment, not expecting to play, I’ll check in.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    jbmonroe wrote: »
    What...? I can't skip ground? Ugh. I don't do "Ground Trek."
    But it's so much fun!
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,210 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    It's these "fail teams" comments that have made me reluctant to do a lot of STFs. Now I'm pretty much forced to do them if I want any marks and I'm usually lost unless the objective is to shoot anything that moves.

    So I'm apologizing in advance to players if I get in your queue.

    :)

    No need to mate, I’m happy to see new players in the queues and whatever DPS you may lack on your way to progress your characters I’ll bring gladly for you to get us the rewards. :)
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
    Bring it on
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,750 Arc User
    It's these "fail teams" comments that have made me reluctant to do a lot of STFs. Now I'm pretty much forced to do them if I want any marks and I'm usually lost unless the objective is to shoot anything that moves.

    So I'm apologizing in advance to players if I get in your queue.

    :)

    You shouldn't be afraid, but if you're not in a fleet and want a group to run queues with then let me know. Myself or any of my fleetmates would gladly run with you and help you if you wanted. No judgment at all, just in it for fun and we'll help you get familiar with the missions and build up your confidence so you feel better playing in public queues. Just let me know if you're interested.
    czechmark wrote: »

    I sympathize, that's exactly my problem! Certain queues require a character to already have great gear, suitable ships, strong traits, suitable skill sets, and precision reaction times... none of which I possess nor have ever been able to figure out; and all of which is counterproductive if you're trying to get the gear to play it. Frankly, if I wanted that level of complexity, I'd rather do it for a job and be paid for it, and at least I wouldn't be messing with someone else's fun.

    Same applies to you. :smile:
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,210 Arc User
    edited October 2018

    You shouldn't be afraid, but if you're not in a fleet and want a group to run queues with then let me know. Myself or any of my fleetmates would gladly run with you and help you if you wanted. No judgment at all, just in it for fun and we'll help you get familiar with the missions and build up your confidence so you feel better playing in public queues. Just let me know if you're interested.

    Hell yea I can attest that! Sea’s fleet is great. B)
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
    Bring it on
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    wishful thinking is not really a reliable source
  • lordbeefy7lordbeefy7 Member Posts: 168 Arc User
    I spent last night playing random advanced on several of my toons. It went fine. Never waited for longer than a couple of minutes. The only mission i had problems with was starbase 1 which kept failing to start properly.

    I filled up on dil and rewards and grabbed a load of rep marks. Seemed fine for casual gaming. Anytime i want specific missions i will probably do it with my fleet.

    Its too early to say its a success or failure. My suggestion is that we all give it a thorough workout over the next few weeks so real substantial evaluation can take place and feed back constructive criticism rather than rants when the system has only just started.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    The numbers were removed to prevent waiting for 3-4 people to queue first. Because if everyone does that, then nobody will ever queue for anything. Even if there are 5+ people wanting to play they won't ever get to, because they're all waiting for the other 4 to queue up first.

    The mutually efficient way is to join the queues you would like to play. If others want to play them too, one of them will pop. Removing the numbers enforces this by requiring players to join the queues to see if they pop rather than lurking on the sidelines and waiting for others to queue first.

    Some people will obstinately refuse to do things the better way, to protest the removal of the negative feedback. But that's pointless, the numbers are not coming back. Most people will forget about them in a few months and new players will never miss them in the first place. And they will be better off for it.

    Nothing is lost by this. You can join any number of queues you want simultaneously, even all of them. If nothing pops and you don't have time to wait, then don't. You can, in fact, leave a queue at any time. As well as do other things while the queue is up.
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