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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    adz006 wrote: »
    I'm surprised the investors aren't getting upset with the missed opportunity of another cash cow. Most other games really focus on pvp and its usually its bread and butter.
    One of Al Rivera's statements circa 2011 could help clear that up, Adz. He set a goal of proving that an MMO doesn't need PvP to be healthy and survive.

    we're seven years later, and officially, STO is doing just fine thanks.
    Aside from EVE, how many games are there where PvP actually drives the game? MMOs are built for PvE first, PvP is an add on after the fact.

    BDO, archage, blade and soul...although the last two are basically dead and BDO is working hard to kill itself in the western market with it's PvP is our bread and butter and casuals can be grief content model. Even EVE is not exactly healthy these days...hence why the sale to pearl abyss...the ones working hard to kill their own PvP focused game in the west. If I wasn't playing the game, I would find it pretty damn hilarious.
    I'm sure there would be plenty enough players out there for unrestricted PvP free-for-all games, too. It's just, if you're gonna run one, you gotta commit to it. Wishy-washy ambivalence on unrestricted PvP will end up with a game that's too PvP for the people who hate it and not PvP enough for the ones who like it.

    Seriously, EVE has such a ruthless PvP reputation that if they try to turn it into anything else it will fail hard. And I don't play EVE, so I do find it hilarious. :D
  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @adz006 said:
    > I'm surprised the investors aren't getting upset with the missed opportunity of another cash cow. Most other games really focus on pvp and its usually its bread and butter.

    At least 2 years ago PWE's founder took the company private again. So investors aren't really a concern anymore as it's no longer a publicly traded company.

    Ahh ok thanks that explains it.
  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited October 2018

    patrickngo wrote: »
    adz006 wrote: »
    I'm surprised the investors aren't getting upset with the missed opportunity of another cash cow. Most other games really focus on pvp and its usually its bread and butter.

    One of Al Rivera's statements circa 2011 could help clear that up, Adz. He set a goal of proving that an MMO doesn't need PvP to be healthy and survive.

    we're seven years later, and officially, STO is doing just fine thanks.

    So what happens when your done playing some of the "play once" stories and stomping borg isa x200000000000?,- pvp is endgame material, its supposed to be. And if you think "sto is doing fine thanks" please check the diminishing player base !
  • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    adz006 wrote: »
    I'm surprised the investors aren't getting upset with the missed opportunity of another cash cow. Most other games really focus on pvp and its usually its bread and butter.
    One of Al Rivera's statements circa 2011 could help clear that up, Adz. He set a goal of proving that an MMO doesn't need PvP to be healthy and survive.

    we're seven years later, and officially, STO is doing just fine thanks.
    Aside from EVE, how many games are there where PvP actually drives the game? MMOs are built for PvE first, PvP is an add on after the fact.

    I personally don't think a game can center around PvP entirely and survive. it ends up being the same problem that STO's having; when you obsessively cultivate a single type of player, you're going to have a diminishing return on all investment in terms of game play, audience, etc.

    The 'game' that is doing well currently, has a balanced mix across the band; it's got PvP, it's got strong PvE, it's got barriers between the two and acknowledges they're different aspects of the same audience.

    I'm speaking of that game Blizzard puts out, in case you're confused.

    Games that over-focus on PvP have really **** communities and lots of oscillation between 'broke enough to be in danger of failure" and "Going to be broke enough to be in danger of failure."

    esp. in the so-called 'western' market.

    Cryptic's problem is that they've been focused on PvE, while at the same time, being a Monty-Haul DM about it, while cutting back on the OTHER social aspects, and alienating the PvP market.

    It's a kind of diminishing returns, that they've held off by selling power-creep, but eventually, you hit a point where you can't sell godmode and still make a profit, because players get bored.

    STO has cut back on Socializing aspects, Exploration aspects, and (of course) pushed away PvP aggressively, while cultivating not just a PvE playerbase, but a Lazy PvE playerbase.

    The problem there, is that said 'lazy' playerbase isn't the same as a social playerbase.

    iow they've gone and cultivated an audience that wants convenience and easy-mode, but still desires to be rewarded highly for minimum effort.

    thing is, you can do that with a lot less code, they call it 'Farmville'.

    a healthy PvP community is designed around Casual PvP=that is, a low entry point, with stable rulesets, and balancing across one of three axes...

    Powers

    Factions

    or

    Scenarios.

    Scenario balancing is probably the best and most effective method, particularly when you have customizable units, but it takes a lot of work to keep it running. Things like a functional matchmaking that accounts for different individual power levels while matching forces, well designed scenarios, and reward systems that encourage good play over easy play.

    a lot of it is counter-intuitive to people raised to think 'Conflict BAD'.

    But in well designed 'scenario' balancing, you don't have identical forces, but you do have an almost-identical chance of winning the scenario.

    Thing is, the same stuff that would lead to good 'casual friendly' PvP, is the same stuff that leads to good 'casual friendly' PvE.

    STO's devs don't have that, which is how and why we're even talking about this stuff.

    I've explained this before...

    Powers balancing:
    1. Everything has a counter
    2. You can't have all the power,
    3. you can't have all the counters
    4. this is why you have (or form) a team.
    5. every build has to sacrifice something to get something, the end result is balanced because the last 20% or so between victory and defeat is determined by how you play, not how you gear.

    STO doesn't have that. There are customs running around Ker'rat that have flight speed 300 (faster than full impulse at cruise), perfect accuracy, one-shot killing power, and immune to return fire.

    This is, by any definition, 'godmode', it's at its root unbalanced. The players that have those builds, can't find an opponent that can hurt them, and are the first up to protest if any of the game is changed to prevent that godmode state.

    at the same time, the devs' focus has also created a situation in PvE where players of equal level wind up at around 5% or less of the damage and survivability of other players, not by gameplay, but by raw build, while NPC's float along being nothing but endless hitpoint bags, immune to things that can routinely destroy normal players, because they don't follow the same rules.

    not that any of that matters, as 90% of the PvE content is 'automatic win' because the game designer is a monty Haul GM.

    The fix for PvP and the fix for PvE are, essentially, things that cross-address, that is, they're rooted in the same methods...and neither will be addressed here.

    to even BEGIN addressing the problem would require going clean-sheet back to late 2012, and building back up with an eye toward balancing. they can't afford the manpower, time, or resources to even start.

    why the 2012 build? because that was teh last time they were close enough to do the work, the code wasn't nearly as tangled up, there were the basics of working systems in place, etc etc.

    Set the plot for the storyline, keep the general plots and voice-overs of the later material, and re-plan it, this time keeping aspects of game balance in mind as you re-add powers, abilities, etc. to the game.

    at which point, you're creating an entirely different game, because you can apply 'lessons learned' (like having a 'main template' for each weapon type, with modular inserts to get the special abilities and procs instead of having to manually go in and re-code every weapon every time you add a variation.)

    Obvious changes:

    1. different reward structures for PvE and PvP, and no, they're not cross-pollinated. one pays one thing the other pays something else.
    2. instead of endless arenas, all combat is on a timer in PvP, with your score being kill/death related and modified by how close the match gets. In Scenario based PvP, mission objectives rather than raw kills, and again on a timer to prevent 'endless grind' matches.
    3. for PvE and PvP both, a 'battle value' or gear-score implemented, in PvE it's against a flat value, based on level of content, for PvP, it's 'team versus team' values. This allows matches with asymmetric teaming (iow not the same number of ships or players on each side) for PvP, and allows for asymmetrical teaming in PvE (instead of needing 5 or 10, you can go with 3 or Eight, for example-dependin on how powerful the ships are individually, or how powerful the toons are.)
    4. "Private matches don't count!" leave it as a training tool.
    5. You want to spend your rep marks? great, go to the site that has the store. let other players see your goodies instead of lurking in sector space doing drop-downs.
    6. Gaps in Leveling. let these be filled by featured Foundry eps or battlezones, or war-zones, or even PvP matches and queues from as early as level 5.
    7. Open Reputations by finishing storylines. Open rep at "Normal" difficulty, even if the player is at or below level 40, keep it closed and locked unless or until they finish the relevant storyline, and then, lock at normal until they've finished all the 'Normal' reps with optionals, at which poitn they can move on to 'Advanced' reputations with, if not a clue, at least a friend who's got one, and repeat there. For PvP, the existing tiered system is fine, but have special 'record run' queues for players that excel at each tier, with specific, PVP ONLY rewards.
    8. stop adding time-gates, remove them, instead, add alternate objectives or methods of achieving those objectives, and reward good play with speed and/or better rewards, particularly for CREATIVE play.
    9. slowly work in factional or other 'choice' missions into leveling for the explorer types, with alternate paths and no 'must play' sets of storyline missions. some people aren't excited by getting that call from Agent Daniels, they're annoyed. give the choice to opt out and stay out, even if it means not getting that temporal shennanigangs set.
    For the most part I agree with your suggestions,however no one mentioned having sto as a pvp focused game, sto has 0 focus on pvp, and that's the problem here.

    There is some balance, but many players are accustomed to one stomping borg in pves with absolutely non existent difficulty level. Then said player enters arena in pvp where a completely different setup ship is required and teamwork, and gets stomped by more experienced players, but this isn't just sto, if you play other games its a similar situation and this is perfectly acceptable. Here it is more prevalent because there are only 1 or 2 challenging queues,of which only the npc hull hp and firepower is increased but the npcs are just as "stupid", the gap between pve and pvp is vast. Having more challenging and intuitive npcs that adapt to the players would make it more fun for everyone and help bridge that gap imo.


  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    adz006 wrote: »
    I'm surprised the investors aren't getting upset with the missed opportunity of another cash cow. Most other games really focus on pvp and its usually its bread and butter.
    One of Al Rivera's statements circa 2011 could help clear that up, Adz. He set a goal of proving that an MMO doesn't need PvP to be healthy and survive.

    we're seven years later, and officially, STO is doing just fine thanks.
    Aside from EVE, how many games are there where PvP actually drives the game? MMOs are built for PvE first, PvP is an add on after the fact.

    Age of Camelot(a Realm vs Realm vs Realm game, with three factions against each other). Aion if it's still around. Warhammer Online used to have it. Fallen Earth. Not sure about ESO, as I haven't tried that yet.
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    adz006 wrote: »
    I'm surprised the investors aren't getting upset with the missed opportunity of another cash cow. Most other games really focus on pvp and its usually its bread and butter.
    One of Al Rivera's statements circa 2011 could help clear that up, Adz. He set a goal of proving that an MMO doesn't need PvP to be healthy and survive.

    we're seven years later, and officially, STO is doing just fine thanks.
    Aside from EVE, how many games are there where PvP actually drives the game? MMOs are built for PvE first, PvP is an add on after the fact.

    Dark Age of Camelot(a Realm vs Realm vs Realm game, with three factions against each other). Aion if it's still around. Warhammer Online used to have it. Fallen Earth. Not sure about ESO, as I haven't tried that yet.

    Whoops. I have no idea how I quoted myself when I was trying to edit a word from the post that I just quoted.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    @ichaerus1 Ummm...you PvP??? Is that where I seen you before in the PvP forums?
    I am wracking my brain trying to figure it out.

    Anyhoo...maybe along with that barrel roll...you can go over some basic PvP stuff? That would be cool.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    @ichaerus1 Ummm...you PvP??? Is that where I seen you before in the PvP forums?
    I am wracking my brain trying to figure it out.

    Anyhoo...maybe along with that barrel roll...you can go over some basic PvP stuff? That would be cool.

    I haven't PvP'd in this game in a long time. I don't have the wallet to be able to gear and trait up for it, or go silly-willy-nilly on ship purchases. Especially after just purchasing my angry teeth ship. :P

    Older games, I used to PvP a lot in. One of the Warhammer Online servers, I was top of the leaderboard with my Witch Elf when they had the live tracker for the game's website. SWTOR, WoW, Everquest 1, Aion, various games I PvP'd in, to name a few. And yes, I'll help you with the barrel roll trick.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    adz006 wrote: »
    I'm surprised the investors aren't getting upset with the missed opportunity of another cash cow. Most other games really focus on pvp and its usually its bread and butter.
    One of Al Rivera's statements circa 2011 could help clear that up, Adz. He set a goal of proving that an MMO doesn't need PvP to be healthy and survive.

    we're seven years later, and officially, STO is doing just fine thanks.
    Aside from EVE, how many games are there where PvP actually drives the game? MMOs are built for PvE first, PvP is an add on after the fact.
    BDO, archage, blade and soul...although the last two are basically dead and BDO is working hard to kill itself in the western market with it's PvP is our bread and butter and casuals can be grief content model. Even EVE is not exactly healthy these days...hence why the sale to pearl abyss...the ones working hard to kill their own PvP focused game in the west. If I wasn't playing the game, I would find it pretty damn hilarious.
    I'm sure there would be plenty enough players out there for unrestricted PvP free-for-all games, too. It's just, if you're gonna run one, you gotta commit to it. Wishy-washy ambivalence on unrestricted PvP will end up with a game that's too PvP for the people who hate it and not PvP enough for the ones who like it.

    Seriously, EVE has such a ruthless PvP reputation that if they try to turn it into anything else it will fail hard. And I don't play EVE, so I do find it hilarious. :D
    Right, but a PvP focused MMO? I'm quite familiar with a certain game by Blizzard that IS PvP focused, but it's NOT an MMO....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,188 Arc User
    2. victory team get 60 marks of choice, losing team get 10. + fleet marks, + small ec reward. no dili., no equipment drop.

    This can be gamed very easily.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    > @ichaerus1 said
    > I haven't PvP'd in this game in a long time. I don't have the wallet to be able to gear and trait up for it, or go silly-willy-nilly on ship purchases.

    LOL! What? You think this Klingon has that stuff either? I said basic stuff, anyways. Basic being the operative word there.

    How do you like that Kurak? You should not call it the angry teeth ship, when you are not using the angry teeth.

    I moved my Ferasean to the Mirror Negh'Var last night....And I have a problem. Wrong Competitive Engine. The one he has triggers on tactical....this ship is all Engineering. He has some Deuterium (sp?) Surplus units on hand, though. You ever try those?

    The Tac engine is good for BoP....which is what he was in.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    > @ichaerus1 said
    > I haven't PvP'd in this game in a long time. I don't have the wallet to be able to gear and trait up for it, or go silly-willy-nilly on ship purchases.

    LOL! What? You think this Klingon has that stuff either? I said basic stuff, anyways. Basic being the operative word there.

    How do you like that Kurak? You should not call it the angry teeth ship, when you are not using the angry teeth.

    I moved my Ferasean to the Mirror Negh'Var last night....And I have a problem. Wrong Competitive Engine. The one he has triggers on tactical....this ship is all Engineering. He has some Deuterium (sp?) Surplus units on hand, though. You ever try those?

    The Tac engine is good for BoP....which is what he was in.

    Well, my main's younger brother right now is leveling the ship with the angry teeth head for the time being. The Kurak is fun. I'm testing a different take on it, where I use intel abilities for the ltc tac seat, and have a dedicated tac ltc in the uni slot. Hazard Emitters is my boff hull heal for the ship, since I'm using the EP2E1/Aux2Bat1/EP2W3/Aux2ID3 combo for my engi. My main healing comes from the Kurak console, Dynamic Power Redistributor Module, and the Protomatter console from the Lukari Space Dorito ship.

    I haven't tried the Deuterium Surplus consumables yet, since I don't know where to get them.

    Also, isn't the Mirror Negh'var a Negh'var that's more sci-focused than tac focused?
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    ichaerus1 wrote: »

    Well, my main's younger brother right now is leveling the ship with the angry teeth head for the time being. The Kurak is fun. I'm testing a different take on it, where I use intel abilities for the ltc tac seat, and have a dedicated tac ltc in the uni slot. Hazard Emitters is my boff hull heal for the ship, since I'm using the EP2E1/Aux2Bat1/EP2W3/Aux2ID3 combo for my engi. My main healing comes from the Kurak console, Dynamic Power Redistributor Module, and the Protomatter console from the Lukari Space Dorito ship.

    You got the DPRM console and you still need the Protomatter one???? What the heck??
    That TRIBBLE is too rich for my blood, BTW. LOL!

    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    I haven't tried the Deuterium Surplus consumables yet, since I don't know where to get them.

    You talk to the Ferengi at the Alhena System to start the mission. You have to fly down there to talk to him as he is only a prompt at the planet. Alhena is over by Ker'rat...so look around there. It goes really fast.

    Hey, we are experimenting...so why not?
    I have not had the occasion to use the Deuterium Surplus I already have.

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Mission:_Defense_Contract

    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    Also, isn't the Mirror Negh'var a Negh'var that's more sci-focused than tac focused?

    Did I call up the wrong ship??? It has a lot of Engineering abilities...more than I am used to seeing.
    Well...you know, the kind of ship I usually fly around in...it isn't Battle Cruisers.

    Edit: Twice as many Engineering buttons to Tac buttons.
    Those Competitive engine buffs off Boff ability clicks.
    I may have to do the ::::::dread:::::: upgrade/salvage B.S. on some engine I have laying around.

    https://i.imgur.com/aFXfMSg.jpg


    Post edited by where2r1 on
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    @ichaerus1

    Hey. Next time you are online....you meet me at Qo'nos or the Fleet Starbase or something.
    I wanna watch your ship from a distance.

    Because this does not look like a barrel roll.
    It's more a camera trick. LOL!
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    adz006 wrote: »
    I'm surprised the investors aren't getting upset with the missed opportunity of another cash cow. Most other games really focus on pvp and its usually its bread and butter.
    One of Al Rivera's statements circa 2011 could help clear that up, Adz. He set a goal of proving that an MMO doesn't need PvP to be healthy and survive.

    we're seven years later, and officially, STO is doing just fine thanks.
    Aside from EVE, how many games are there where PvP actually drives the game? MMOs are built for PvE first, PvP is an add on after the fact.
    BDO, archage, blade and soul...although the last two are basically dead and BDO is working hard to kill itself in the western market with it's PvP is our bread and butter and casuals can be grief content model. Even EVE is not exactly healthy these days...hence why the sale to pearl abyss...the ones working hard to kill their own PvP focused game in the west. If I wasn't playing the game, I would find it pretty damn hilarious.
    I'm sure there would be plenty enough players out there for unrestricted PvP free-for-all games, too. It's just, if you're gonna run one, you gotta commit to it. Wishy-washy ambivalence on unrestricted PvP will end up with a game that's too PvP for the people who hate it and not PvP enough for the ones who like it.

    Seriously, EVE has such a ruthless PvP reputation that if they try to turn it into anything else it will fail hard. And I don't play EVE, so I do find it hilarious. :D
    Right, but a PvP focused MMO? I'm quite familiar with a certain game by Blizzard that IS PvP focused, but it's NOT an MMO....

    Overwatch, is a Massive Multiplayer Online(MMO) game. It's just not a MMO-RPG like WoW, STO, Everquest, SWTOR, etcetera. It's more of a MOBA, Massive Online Battle Arena.

    Other MMO/Mobs games that survive on PvP.
    League of Legends
    Dota 2
    Fortnite

    So, yes, a MMO can survive on PvP alone, if it's done right. The ones that don't make it are the ones that don't do it right.

    Even for the PvE side of this game. If you payed attention to the thread when they asked what kept you playing the game. The majority answer is, because it's Star Trek. Take that away and a large chunk of the player base would leave. So, don't be deluded to much here. The name is carrying the game.

    Balanced PvP would alleviate that. Why? Because there aren't many space combat PvP games out there. Not only would balanced PvP give the current player base something else to do. It would attract new players and returning players, like some of those that left at Delta Rising.

    But then for balanced PvP, it would have to be set up in a manner that wasn't Pay to Win, like the current PvE setup. And before anyone argues it's not pay to win. Any time you can buy end game anything, be it gear or ship, from the cash shop, then it is pay to win. Lock boxes are the other half of the pay to win side of it. But, unless you're game is PvP oriented, all this does is server to push more people away from it. Before you can say it isn't pay to win, because of the dilithium exchange. Remember, some one had to buy that zen, in order to sell it. Meaning it's still paid to win, you're just not the one paying for it.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    Overwatch, is a Massive Multiplayer Online(MMO) game. It's just not a MMO-RPG like WoW, STO, Everquest, SWTOR, etcetera. It's more of a MOBA, Massive Online Battle Arena.

    Other MMO/Mobs games that survive on PvP.
    League of Legends
    Dota 2
    Fortnite

    So, yes, a MMO can survive on PvP alone, if it's done right. The ones that don't make it are the ones that don't do it right.
    You didn't name a single MMO. Which was my entire point. Overwatch and MOBA games don't let you chose what skills your character has. That's how they're able to balance it.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,962 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    patrickngo wrote: »
    the mode is advertised, but it's broken.
    I would say that "advertised" is a bit much, considering it's hidden behind some drop-down.

    I would agree otherwise, particularly on the differences of designing for PvE and for PvP.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    @ichaerus1

    Hey. Next time you are online....you meet me at Qo'nos or the Fleet Starbase or something.
    I wanna watch your ship from a distance.

    Because this does not look like a barrel roll.
    It's more a camera trick. LOL!

    Deal. Either there, or DS9 system space. As I can use that as a one zone away stop from the shipyard if I need to wrangle up some things real fast. :smile:
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited October 2018
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    Deal. Either there, or DS9 system space. As I can use that as a one zone away stop from the shipyard if I need to wrangle up some things real fast. :smile:

    DS9 sounds good...we won't have to asteroids to dodge.
    I will be on at around 5ish...DOFFing, send me a tell.

    I just thought of something....exactly how fast can you buff your speed, and am I gonna have to put my character in the Pilot Raptor to keep up with you to see what you do? LOL!
    Post edited by where2r1 on
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • hesuspino72#6173 hesuspino72 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    a thought cross my mind just now.
    i know it was said that biggest problem is balancing weapons in pvp, because the pve (different stats). but what if solution is really simple. instead of balancing weapons, just balance ship class by giving them similar hp(healt pool) values as in pve (enemy npc ships).
    like borg have 400k hp, and tolian weaver is something like 170k hp. so we apply those numbers temporarily in pvp matches, ship class multiplied by certain amount. depending by class).

    this way devs. don't have to waste time balancing things x2.
  • hesuspino72#6173 hesuspino72 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    ichaerus1 wrote: »
    I just thought of something....exactly how fast can you buff your speed, and am I gonna have to put my character in the Pilot Raptor to keep up with you to see what you do? LOL!

    you can buff your speed to crazy levels.
  • hesuspino72#6173 hesuspino72 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    some one said that sto should be pvp oriented game (while there are game out there that work like this and they are more then fine, world of tanks any one), sto community is not pvp oriented.
    but that those not means that there should not be a functional pvp part of the game. and that there is not a pvp community in sto, it is just that pvp is/was so neglected that simply no one atm want to play it (generalizing).
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    A functional Level Matching system would fix 90% of the issues with PvP

    Back at the dawn of time there was neat feature in STO. It allowed characters of very different levels to work together without the higher level character dominating the lower one. It matched the lower level character's powers, abilities, and gear to the captain of the team, or allowed the higher team member to match levels with the lower. Once the character exited the mission or team, the level adjusted character's normal abilities were restored.

    But reputations and traits happened and they were not included in the level matching system. You can still mach a Level 60 Captain to a Level 20 captain, but the passives which make the Level 60 Captain so formidable do not scale to match the level 20 guy.

    If the extra systems which were never incorporated in the Level Matching system were actually incorporated, a level playing field could be achieved.

    I would create the following system for PvP, and base it on the Tier of the ship the captain is using:

    Tier 2 PvP = All abilities reduced to that of a Lieutenant Commander/Centurion. All gear capped at Mk IV Green Quality
    Tier 3 PvP = All abilities reduced to that of a Commander/Subcommander. All gear capped at Mk VI Blue Quality
    Tier 4 PvP = All abilities reduced to that of a Captain/Commander. All gear capped at Mk VIII Purple Quality
    Tier 5 PvP = All abilities reduced to that of a Rear Admiral (Upper)/Major General/Subadmiral II. All gear capped at Mk XI Gold
    Tier 5U6 PvP = All abilities reduced to that of a Fleet Admiral/Dahar Master of level 65. All gear capped at Mk XIII Red-Blue
    Unlimited PvP = You got it, you bring it, baby!

    But even without the Tiered PvP structure I propose, the simple ability to match a character to a particular level, and include all those other abilities which were designed after the game went live and were never included in the original level matching system would go a long way to creating a level playing field both in PvE and in PvP.
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