Not my intent just in case you misinterpreted anything I said, given that your post directly followed mine.
Am focusing on how leveling speed and difficulty may affect new players and player retention with a single post providing some support via in-game experience for another poster who seems to be discussing the same thing who may have used a single phrase that I don't necessarily endorse and perhaps should not have included in my quote. (quote edited)
Player churn is a fact of life, positive discussions about things that may effect a new players game experience combined with helping new players in game decreases churn.
Message received though as you have an experienced eye for thread direction.
I'm not trying to hyperbole but, I wouldn't be surprised if the way STO's difficulty scaling is many new players are likely quitting without saying anything. Only about 10% of people complain or bring up problems with a product. I imagine that 90% of new players are likely quitting once they hit 60-65. [...] If the sheer number of posts everywhere else has any say of the situation then that'd mean at least 9 fold as many players just quit and move on to something else rather than sticking with the game.
And I wonder why no one brings it up here......
People avoid discussing things in that context because it IS hyperbole. It cannot be discussed without jumping into the deep end of the hyperbole pool. I don't think that Cryptic has that information. Why? Cryptic's player activity logging does not show them WHY players quit, all it shows is what they were doing before quitting.
Anyways, to paraphrase an old quote: When I was a NooB, I thought like a NooB, made terrible ship builds like a NooB, and got confused like a NooB, but when I stopped being a NooB, I learned how to do things right.
Fun story: The most frustrating moment I ever had playing the game was back when I played the tutorial for the first time. I didn't know how the camera controls worked and the camera was pointing the wrong way and I had no idea how to fix it.
Also, I regularly look back at the costumes I built when I first started playing and cringe... My first character was intended to be a Fed Orion. Human with green skin? EASY! Right? Apparently not.... I somehow accidentally added hot pink Trill spots to the sides of her neck and a large fire-engine red tattoo in the middle of her forehead without realizing it. To this day, I have no idea how that was possible. All I know is that it happened.
Point is either you learn how to play the game or you inevitably run into some obstacle that you can't beat because you're doing it wrong.
Also, I regularly look back at the costumes I built when I first started playing and cringe... My first character was intended to be a Fed Orion. Human with green skin? EASY! Right? Apparently not.... I somehow accidentally added hot pink Trill spots to the sides of her neck and a large fire-engine red tattoo in the middle of her forehead without realizing it. To this day, I have no idea how that was possible. All I know is that it happened.
I'm not trying to hyperbole but, I wouldn't be surprised if the way STO's difficulty scaling is many new players are likely quitting without saying anything. Only about 10% of people complain or bring up problems with a product. I imagine that 90% of new players are likely quitting once they hit 60-65. [...] If the sheer number of posts everywhere else has any say of the situation then that'd mean at least 9 fold as many players just quit and move on to something else rather than sticking with the game.
And I wonder why no one brings it up here......
People avoid discussing things in that context because it IS hyperbole. It cannot be discussed without jumping into the deep end of the hyperbole pool. I don't think that Cryptic has that information. Why? Cryptic's player activity logging does not show them WHY players quit, all it shows is what they were doing before quitting.
I posted what I did because I don't believe it's all hyperbole. Interesting PS stats. But that's mainly just churn... people giving a game a try and not a reflection on the game itself. It's difficult to discuss perhaps because it's all to easy to head in the wrong direction (coughs).
Point is either you learn how to play the game or you inevitably run into some obstacle that you can't beat because you're doing it wrong.
Noob Story: There's a mission in the same story arc that involves sitting down at a conference table with various representatives for diplomatic talks. For the life of me not ever having had to sit at a table before I couldn't figure out how to proceed. I exited the mission and googled the sit commands. After trying all of them and failing to proceed yet again I asked for help in zone chat and even offered EC for an answer. Then somebody told me all I had to do was click on a chair.
Ah, the conference room scene in the first episode of the mission series. Hehe, I figured it out the first go because the mission objective is "sit in a chair" Then you have an objective marker showing you where the chair is. I figured it out when I noticed the mouse pointer changes shapes when you mouse over sittable furniture.
It's not how STO normally does it. Usually you walk to the location and a cutscene happens.
Ah, the conference room scene in the first episode of the mission series. Hehe, I figured it out the first go because the mission objective is "sit in a chair" Then you have an objective marker showing you where the chair is. I figured it out when I noticed the mouse pointer changes shapes when you mouse over sittable furniture.
It's not how STO normally does it. Usually you walk to the location and a cutscene happens.
*Squints* What marker? Was using an outdated Apple laptop running the original "unofficial" Mac version of the game by @doh123 (yes somebody made it work even way back then, there was even a thread for it) with a graphics setting of about 1.5 on a scale of 10. Dang mouse didn't even have normal buttons... ugh. I made the switch to Windows and a normal mouse after about a year and it was great being able to actually see things. Now peeps complain that they can see too much lol.
But that's mainly just churn... people giving a game a try and not a reflection on the game itself. It's difficult to discuss perhaps because it's all to easy to head in the wrong direction (coughs).
I do recall someone had a dev quote which mentioned how they had no difficulty getting people to try the game, but some difficulty keeping them.
I think having a low churn rate (attracting and keeping customers) is something every company strives for, from video games to telecom companies ...basically anybody who provides a service where there are competitors offering similar services. Space games such as STO are somewhat unique though.
Point is either you learn how to play the game or you inevitably run into some obstacle that you can't beat because you're doing it wrong.
Well, there's the thing: The game does a really BAD job teaching you how to play the game. In fact, it does the opposite of teaching you how to play the game. In nearly every situation, your long-term success prospects will be greatly improved if you obstinately refuse to take the bait placed in front of you for what the game wants/expects you to do.
Yes, and I think that's part of the issue when it comes to threads like this. A new player is going to have a lot to learn and even unlearn if they've taken the bait. Learning through experience and experimentation is supposed to be part of the leveling process though, but there's no guarantee you'll learn things right. I'm still actively unlearning things and have re-specced several toons recently.
I've seen you giving out some very good advice in-game via a variety of channels so thanks it all helps but it's still learning the basics that's the issue here so people will hopefully not get frustrated and continue to play.
I think having a low churn rate (attracting and keeping customers) is something every company strives for, from video games to telecom companies ...basically anybody who provides a service where there are competitors offering similar services. Space games such as STO are somewhat unique though.
All F2P games have high churn rate. It's part of the business model. Players don't pay anything to play the games so they have nothing to lose by downloading, trying and abandoning games in quick succession. So that's exactly what they do.
Point is either you learn how to play the game or you inevitably run into some obstacle that you can't beat because you're doing it wrong.
Well, there's the thing: The game does a really BAD job teaching you how to play the game. In fact, it does the opposite of teaching you how to play the game. In nearly every situation, your long-term success prospects will be greatly improved if you obstinately refuse to take the bait placed in front of you for what the game wants/expects you to do.
Yes, and I think that's part of the issue when it comes to threads like this. A new player is going to have a lot to learn and even unlearn if they've taken the bait. Learning through experience and experimentation is supposed to be part of the leveling process though, but there's no guarantee you'll learn things right. I'm still actively unlearning things and have re-specced several toons recently.
I've seen you giving out some very good advice in-game via a variety of channels so thanks it all helps but it's still learning the basics that's the issue here so people will hopefully not get frustrated and continue to play.
Some people would definitely benefit from better in-game instruction. Ship builds in particular are a very poorly-documented area of the game (officially that is, there are very good unofficial guides out on the net).
On the other hand, these "game is too hard" threads often contain players that just want to complain and will purposefully ignore and argue against any advice. Players who don't want to learn can't be taught.
As for players quitting the game, we can only guess. Someone has probably quit because they thought the game too hard, others because they though it too easy. But i'd expect the sheer length of the old-fashioned "leveling content" vs "endgame" format is a bigger stumbling block for new players than difficulty. That sort of thing worked in the age of subscription games, because players had paid for a month in advance and quitting after a day or two would've felt like wasting money. In the modern F2P marketplace, level 50 is a long way to go and players who aren't that interested in the single-player story may simply get bored before unlocking the real multiplayer game modes.
This is a reason to want to speed up leveling, but that's not necessarily the right solution, either. Newer games tend to instead unlock game modes bit by bit and starting early on, rather than demanding everyone get to a level cap before doing anything.
The first 10 levels in the old days were what players called the "extended tutorial". This is because, while ostensibly story missions, they still had bits in them like "you need to team with another player to complete this optional objective" or "shoot the plasma seeker or it will kill you".
i personally think the front part of the mission is impossible for folks on a shuttle using dual cannons.
only way I can do this is with torp spread using an omni beam array. have not tried it with a turret & torps thou.
this is due to the timer for the front part of the mission. you have to destroy those worker bees and keep going doing the sequence in a fixed time... otherwise it resets and you start over.
they need to remove the timer or keep it but don't let it reset back to the start.
I heartily agree with statements that the game does a poor could do a better job of teaching you what you need to do, especially when it comes to ship building. Although it was a long long time ago now, I remember the frustration. Getting beyond "pew, pew and hope for the best" should not require almost as much time doing web searches as actually playing the game.
I have been a Star Trek fan since the first pilot aired, this is one of the few MMOs where multi player is truly totally optional, and unless you are right in the middle of a fight, there are very few instances where you can't get up and walk away for a while, PvP never occurs unless you deliberately choose to do so. All things that I want in a game. Those things were enough for me to spend the time doing the web searches required to get beyond my frustrations.
A player lacking one or more of those compelling reasons to keep playing would easily get frustrated enough to just give up and go play something else. Especially since (as someone else stated) they have nothing invested into the game other than the time spent to download and install it. I have tried numerous other F2P MMOs, some of which I still play on the rare occasions when I don't feel like playing STO. The only ones I didn't promptly delete were the ones with a detailed enough tutorial to get you through the game without having to go search the web. Much as I love STO, without the factors I mentioned earlier, it would have joined the list of deleted games.
But, this thread is about Operation Gamma being too hard so...
Even before the level cap increase, I remember Operation Gamma as being extremely difficult. To the point that I gave up, made a new toon of a different Faction (something i would have done eventually anyway) and played that one instead, a Romulan. Candle in a hurricane and I put that one hold and created yet another toon to play... What I have learned since then, from lots of web research and Fleet mates neither one is extremely difficult.
For a very casual player, who hasn't done a lot of web research, or learned from a friend/Fleetmate, Operation Gamma was an extremely difficult mission, I have yet to play it since the level cap increase but with the scaling and crit damage bugs changes the forums are full of lately I have no doubt that it is now close to impossible for such players. I have a few new(ish) Delta toons that haven't gotten to it yet that, other than the every 10 level Delta equipment rewards and my TOS Boffs, I have been playing with nothing more than mission rewards and drops. Although this topic will likely have run it's course by then, I'll see how difficult it is then, although it will still be quite "skewed" by the simple fact that I have played it so many times and although I can limit my gear to what a new, casual player would have, I can't limit my experience with the game.
i personally think the front part of the mission is impossible for folks on a shuttle using dual cannons.
only way I can do this is with torp spread using an omni beam array. have not tried it with a turret & torps thou.
So use a beam and a torpedo on it. Proper tools to match the job. There's nothing wrong with a nail just because it's impossible to hammer with a screwdriver.
they need to remove the timer or keep it but don't let it reset back to the start.
I do not> @warpangel said:
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> It's the moments that...well there is no telegraphing or the scaling lets a common normal attack like a normal torpedo to auto kill that seriously bothers me since well, it violates the rules of challenging gameplay. Thats why I call it punishing.
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> I would be interested to know where you got these "rules of challenging gameplay" from?
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> As it is, crits happen. Luck often plays a part in games. STO like many games is designed around players respawning and trying again until they win. And it's nowhere near the harder end of the spectrum.
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> Seriously? Check the post earlier where I shared the video when difficult is fun. Edit: Since you never actually read that, here is the video again.
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> I don't generally have a habit of watching random, long videos someone posts into threads. But the topic was interesting so...
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> If you can't agree with this video then you have ZERO say in difficulty as far as I am concerned. Your among those typing the hands bloody that need to stop as you are actively hurting the games you claim to support. AND part of the reason why difficult games are only rarely being made.
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> ...no, I don't agree with that video. It's just declaring everything one person doesn't like as "not real difficulty," just the same as uncountable others on the internet. Neither you nor some random youtuber get to decide who has a "say in difficulty."
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> And difficult games are made all the time. STO is just not one of them. STO is without question one of the easiest games I've ever played.
QFT, especially the last paragraph. Want hear about a difficult game? Long time ago there was a game where anytime you died, up to and including the final boss battle of the entire game, you respawned at the beginning of the game, no checkpoints, no save spots, nada. You had to start all over again at the very start, now thats a hard game.
I remember a game like that. Was one of the Luna games I believe.
i personally think the front part of the mission is impossible for folks on a shuttle using dual cannons.
only way I can do this is with torp spread using an omni beam array. have not tried it with a turret & torps thou.
this is due to the timer for the front part of the mission. you have to destroy those worker bees and keep going doing the sequence in a fixed time... otherwise it resets and you start over.
they need to remove the timer or keep it but don't let it reset back to the start.
Not impossible with the To'Duj fighter with DHCs. It also can be your console selection. Just throw the lightning ball console(Isometric Charge or whatever it's called) or the Magnetometric Generator(the cone knockback/damage) console into your little fighter as a backup tool.
what laughingxan said, was HAVING to respawn to beat a mission was lame, not respawning becuase you messed up somehow. if torpedoes are literally one shotting people on normal, that's not becuase THEY screwed up.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
i personally think the front part of the mission is impossible for folks on a shuttle using dual cannons.
only way I can do this is with torp spread using an omni beam array. have not tried it with a turret & torps thou.
So use a beam and a torpedo on it. Proper tools to match the job. There's nothing wrong with a nail just because it's impossible to hammer with a screwdriver.
they need to remove the timer or keep it but don't let it reset back to the start.
No, they don't.
It's also good to remember you can change gear loadouts any time not at red alert.
I think having a low churn rate (attracting and keeping customers) is something every company strives for, from video games to telecom companies ...basically anybody who provides a service where there are competitors offering similar services. Space games such as STO are somewhat unique though.
All F2P games have high churn rate. It's part of the business model. Players don't pay anything to play the games so they have nothing to lose by downloading, trying and abandoning games in quick succession. So that's exactly what they do.
I appreciate your insight on F2P player turnover (and the F2P marketplace below), more so since this doesn't really apply to me as no other games I've looked into have any appeal whatsoever. Seems STO is unique. Without it I'd get more yard-work done.
As for players quitting the game, we can only guess. Someone has probably quit because they thought the game too hard, others because they though it too easy. But i'd expect the sheer length of the old-fashioned "leveling content" vs "endgame" format is a bigger stumbling block for new players than difficulty. That sort of thing worked in the age of subscription games, because players had paid for a month in advance and quitting after a day or two would've felt like wasting money. In the modern F2P marketplace, level 50 is a long way to go and players who aren't that interested in the single-player story may simply get bored before unlocking the real multiplayer game modes.
This is a reason to want to speed up leveling, but that's not necessarily the right solution, either. Newer games tend to instead unlock game modes bit by bit and starting early on, rather than demanding everyone get to a level cap before doing anything.
This seems to be what they're doing on Tribble with some missions as side quests and some queues as assignments as well as being able to enter normal queues earlier. Wasn't precisely sure why but it seems to fit what you've said here, adjusting the game to better fit the modern F2P marketplace.
what laughingxan said, was HAVING to respawn to beat a mission was lame, not respawning becuase you messed up somehow. if torpedoes are literally one shotting people on normal, that's not becuase THEY screwed up.
Torpedoes have always one shotted people during missions on normal upon occasion. It even happens to people with many characters, years of experience, and excellent leveling gear.
Quite a few people took the mission for a test drive in this thread. I ended up respawning last time I did it even though I've played the mission dozens of times.
There may or may not be some NPC scaling issues. NPC crits have already been recently reduced and it seems they're keeping an eye on things. Don't know if much more can be done. We've all had our moments as new players. See mine (above).
Currently laughing very very hard at the claim of "STO being a game of respawn till you win like so many other games out there" especially the "Like so many others" part.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Currently laughing very very hard at the claim of "STO being a game of respawn till you win like so many other games out there" especially the "Like so many others" part.
And yet torpedoes one shotting players! Edit: Forgot to put this in, most games reset all enemy health and respawn defeated enemies if you die, or they send you back to checkpoint or last quicksave/save file.
Honestly I wouldn't expect the game to have minimal "churn" or player turnover. But I'd expect more players to be willing to stick around.
Why couldn't normal mode be the mode for casuals, advanced for players wanting some challenge, and elite be for the hardcore? Or people who've geared up well and have good builds already? Isn't normal mode supposed to be the accessible mode? I personally feel that, 40-50 was just right for normal mode later in the game. It was just challenging enough you needed to think about how to defend yourself and how to attack enemies, rather than mindlessly pummel them 1-20 or the curb-stomps I started seeing 60-65. 50-60 wasn't quite so bad either.
60-65 on normal just feels like you must have been playing the game for a few years to really enjoy it and have prior knowledge in setting up both good offenses and defenses. Thats why it's not accessible. And thats likely whats driving so many players away. They perceive a game which is way to difficult. It does not matter at all how easy it is for you guys, it's how hard it is for them and how they feel about it. They cannot enjoy the game and while I'm sure some are ultra happy they cannot, I'm fairly certain cryptic can't be happy with all the customers they are losing for it.
At level 65 difficulty settings should not be;
Normal: "You must have quality gear, or expert knowledge of the mechanics to survive with mk12"(especially since a player can easily hit 65 in very little time). You will have a very rough time without years of experience.
Advanced: "Must have both high quality gear and expert knowledge and a superior build. Even then you'll be miserable."
Elite: "Only the perfect min/max build that cost 10000 zen to have any fun".
Probably should be:
Normal: Baseline experience, you'll have some challenge without quality builds but this'll get easy with mk13 or better gear or if your using a very good bridge officer and duty officer setup.
Advanced: For players with reasonably good builds, setup duty officers and bridge officer abilities seeking a challenge normal cannot provide.
Elite: For players who fully know what they are doing and want the ultimate challenge. Difficulty is for long time veterans with elite quality gear only.
I mean is it some cardinal sin for players to be able to enjoy the game? I just presented an old idea that'd give something for everyone here.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
I wasn't laughing at you laughingxan, was laughing at the person who said that was normal.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Yeah I only started playing again recently got to level 65 no problem with the xp pack but then I noticed even with mostly purp XII gear things were just 1 shotting me. Not in a way that I was mechanically avoidable either.
I'm using science and yeah fleet helps bigly as well as some of the temporal stuff I use to defend but I don't remember shields being this useless.
I had a tactical T6 ship from previous so I put that one on this figuring it would be better with double the hull of my science ship but I think enemies scale or something cause I'm taking 45k or more damage.
I still am enjoying the whole star trek nostalgia and I don't want to complain about difficulty but it's just frustrating having to wait until certain skills come off CD before I can attempt to take down a single wave.
[...]Why couldn't normal mode be the mode for casuals, advanced for players wanting some challenge, and elite be for the hardcore?[...]
I honestly think that they got the balance right as it is currently. Let's use me as an example. This was my first ever online game at age 40 something and I was a casual player. Having to figure how to make my ship move forward was step one. Yes, there was some challenges along the way like learning that you click on a chair to sit down Everything else was a natural learning progression that didn't seem to put up any insurmountable walls. There may have been some light cussing at times. Joining a fleet really helped but so did a bit of self study. If a noob like me can get things right enough to reach end game on my first character and start to have some fun in the borg STF's of the day I really think almost anybody can. There isn't any elitist in me and I try to stick up for folks when I can.
I tried to stick up for you a bit earlier when I thought some of the responses you received were inappropriate. There was a brief period in the games history (Delta Rising) when the difficulty increased suddenly to the extent that some members in fleets I was associated with possibly left out of frustration, but that was fixed some time ago and having recently started some new toons don't believe that this has repeated itself. Current scaling is fine imho and others who've participated in this thread have run the mission with starter gear, no traits, active doffs, etc as have I and didn't find any problems. I honestly think they were trying their best to put themselves in the position of a newer player and meant well.
One of the more positive aspects of this forum the past while has been ship build and advice threads in the academy section of the forums. All you have to do is ask. The only possible related shortfall of the game currently is that it could do a better job at teaching you how to set up your ship. It's good to hear that you and your friend having the difficulties are in a fleet so help is available.
Edit: there is one button aside from any career related abilities or consumables that really helps if you drag it to your powers bar - distribute shields. Spam it.
Danube Class Runabout As compared to base shuttle adds +1 tac console +1 science console + 0.1 shield modifier + 0.1 hull modifier + 1 universal boff slot. Cost: 34,250 EC.
Yeah, that's usually the one I get if I don't have anything else. The Yellowstone is also one I go with and it's quite good. The Delta Flyer or the Captain's Yacht (for LTS) are two of the best shuttle-type. I've never tried that mission with a fighter, though I might one day.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Comments
Am focusing on how leveling speed and difficulty may affect new players and player retention with a single post providing some support via in-game experience for another poster who seems to be discussing the same thing who may have used a single phrase that I don't necessarily endorse and perhaps should not have included in my quote. (quote edited)
Player churn is a fact of life, positive discussions about things that may effect a new players game experience combined with helping new players in game decreases churn.
Message received though as you have an experienced eye for thread direction.
Anyways, to paraphrase an old quote: When I was a NooB, I thought like a NooB, made terrible ship builds like a NooB, and got confused like a NooB, but when I stopped being a NooB, I learned how to do things right.
Fun story: The most frustrating moment I ever had playing the game was back when I played the tutorial for the first time. I didn't know how the camera controls worked and the camera was pointing the wrong way and I had no idea how to fix it.
Also, I regularly look back at the costumes I built when I first started playing and cringe... My first character was intended to be a Fed Orion. Human with green skin? EASY! Right? Apparently not.... I somehow accidentally added hot pink Trill spots to the sides of her neck and a large fire-engine red tattoo in the middle of her forehead without realizing it. To this day, I have no idea how that was possible. All I know is that it happened.
Point is either you learn how to play the game or you inevitably run into some obstacle that you can't beat because you're doing it wrong.
My character Tsin'xing
Or click here if that doesn't give a large enough picture
My character Tsin'xing
Noob Story: There's a mission in the same story arc that involves sitting down at a conference table with various representatives for diplomatic talks. For the life of me not ever having had to sit at a table before I couldn't figure out how to proceed. I exited the mission and googled the sit commands. After trying all of them and failing to proceed yet again I asked for help in zone chat and even offered EC for an answer. Then somebody told me all I had to do was click on a chair.
Good point.
It's not how STO normally does it. Usually you walk to the location and a cutscene happens.
My character Tsin'xing
Yes, and I think that's part of the issue when it comes to threads like this. A new player is going to have a lot to learn and even unlearn if they've taken the bait. Learning through experience and experimentation is supposed to be part of the leveling process though, but there's no guarantee you'll learn things right. I'm still actively unlearning things
I've seen you giving out some very good advice in-game via a variety of channels so thanks it all helps but it's still learning the basics that's the issue here so people will hopefully not get frustrated and continue to play.
I've a feeling one of cryptics other titles will have the monopoly on DOOM titles for a while.
Some people would definitely benefit from better in-game instruction. Ship builds in particular are a very poorly-documented area of the game (officially that is, there are very good unofficial guides out on the net).
On the other hand, these "game is too hard" threads often contain players that just want to complain and will purposefully ignore and argue against any advice. Players who don't want to learn can't be taught.
As for players quitting the game, we can only guess. Someone has probably quit because they thought the game too hard, others because they though it too easy. But i'd expect the sheer length of the old-fashioned "leveling content" vs "endgame" format is a bigger stumbling block for new players than difficulty. That sort of thing worked in the age of subscription games, because players had paid for a month in advance and quitting after a day or two would've felt like wasting money. In the modern F2P marketplace, level 50 is a long way to go and players who aren't that interested in the single-player story may simply get bored before unlocking the real multiplayer game modes.
This is a reason to want to speed up leveling, but that's not necessarily the right solution, either. Newer games tend to instead unlock game modes bit by bit and starting early on, rather than demanding everyone get to a level cap before doing anything.
My character Tsin'xing
only way I can do this is with torp spread using an omni beam array. have not tried it with a turret & torps thou.
this is due to the timer for the front part of the mission. you have to destroy those worker bees and keep going doing the sequence in a fixed time... otherwise it resets and you start over.
they need to remove the timer or keep it but don't let it reset back to the start.
I heartily agree with statements that the game does a poor could do a better job of teaching you what you need to do, especially when it comes to ship building. Although it was a long long time ago now, I remember the frustration. Getting beyond "pew, pew and hope for the best" should not require almost as much time doing web searches as actually playing the game.
I have been a Star Trek fan since the first pilot aired, this is one of the few MMOs where multi player is truly totally optional, and unless you are right in the middle of a fight, there are very few instances where you can't get up and walk away for a while, PvP never occurs unless you deliberately choose to do so. All things that I want in a game. Those things were enough for me to spend the time doing the web searches required to get beyond my frustrations.
A player lacking one or more of those compelling reasons to keep playing would easily get frustrated enough to just give up and go play something else. Especially since (as someone else stated) they have nothing invested into the game other than the time spent to download and install it. I have tried numerous other F2P MMOs, some of which I still play on the rare occasions when I don't feel like playing STO. The only ones I didn't promptly delete were the ones with a detailed enough tutorial to get you through the game without having to go search the web. Much as I love STO, without the factors I mentioned earlier, it would have joined the list of deleted games.
But, this thread is about Operation Gamma being too hard so...
Even before the level cap increase, I remember Operation Gamma as being extremely difficult. To the point that I gave up, made a new toon of a different Faction (something i would have done eventually anyway) and played that one instead, a Romulan. Candle in a hurricane and I put that one hold and created yet another toon to play... What I have learned since then, from lots of web research and Fleet mates neither one is extremely difficult.
For a very casual player, who hasn't done a lot of web research, or learned from a friend/Fleetmate, Operation Gamma was an extremely difficult mission, I have yet to play it since the level cap increase but with the scaling and crit damage bugs changes the forums are full of lately I have no doubt that it is now close to impossible for such players. I have a few new(ish) Delta toons that haven't gotten to it yet that, other than the every 10 level Delta equipment rewards and my TOS Boffs, I have been playing with nothing more than mission rewards and drops. Although this topic will likely have run it's course by then, I'll see how difficult it is then, although it will still be quite "skewed" by the simple fact that I have played it so many times and although I can limit my gear to what a new, casual player would have, I can't limit my experience with the game.
No, they don't.
I remember a game like that. Was one of the Luna games I believe.
Not impossible with the To'Duj fighter with DHCs. It also can be your console selection. Just throw the lightning ball console(Isometric Charge or whatever it's called) or the Magnetometric Generator(the cone knockback/damage) console into your little fighter as a backup tool.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
My character Tsin'xing
This seems to be what they're doing on Tribble with some missions as side quests and some queues as assignments as well as being able to enter normal queues earlier. Wasn't precisely sure why but it seems to fit what you've said here, adjusting the game to better fit the modern F2P marketplace.
Quite a few people took the mission for a test drive in this thread. I ended up respawning last time I did it even though I've played the mission dozens of times.
There may or may not be some NPC scaling issues. NPC crits have already been recently reduced and it seems they're keeping an eye on things. Don't know if much more can be done. We've all had our moments as new players. See mine (above).
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
And yet torpedoes one shotting players! Edit: Forgot to put this in, most games reset all enemy health and respawn defeated enemies if you die, or they send you back to checkpoint or last quicksave/save file.
Honestly I wouldn't expect the game to have minimal "churn" or player turnover. But I'd expect more players to be willing to stick around.
Why couldn't normal mode be the mode for casuals, advanced for players wanting some challenge, and elite be for the hardcore? Or people who've geared up well and have good builds already? Isn't normal mode supposed to be the accessible mode? I personally feel that, 40-50 was just right for normal mode later in the game. It was just challenging enough you needed to think about how to defend yourself and how to attack enemies, rather than mindlessly pummel them 1-20 or the curb-stomps I started seeing 60-65. 50-60 wasn't quite so bad either.
60-65 on normal just feels like you must have been playing the game for a few years to really enjoy it and have prior knowledge in setting up both good offenses and defenses. Thats why it's not accessible. And thats likely whats driving so many players away. They perceive a game which is way to difficult. It does not matter at all how easy it is for you guys, it's how hard it is for them and how they feel about it. They cannot enjoy the game and while I'm sure some are ultra happy they cannot, I'm fairly certain cryptic can't be happy with all the customers they are losing for it.
At level 65 difficulty settings should not be;
Normal: "You must have quality gear, or expert knowledge of the mechanics to survive with mk12"(especially since a player can easily hit 65 in very little time). You will have a very rough time without years of experience.
Advanced: "Must have both high quality gear and expert knowledge and a superior build. Even then you'll be miserable."
Elite: "Only the perfect min/max build that cost 10000 zen to have any fun".
Probably should be:
Normal: Baseline experience, you'll have some challenge without quality builds but this'll get easy with mk13 or better gear or if your using a very good bridge officer and duty officer setup.
Advanced: For players with reasonably good builds, setup duty officers and bridge officer abilities seeking a challenge normal cannot provide.
Elite: For players who fully know what they are doing and want the ultimate challenge. Difficulty is for long time veterans with elite quality gear only.
I mean is it some cardinal sin for players to be able to enjoy the game? I just presented an old idea that'd give something for everyone here.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I know you weren't
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
I'm using science and yeah fleet helps bigly as well as some of the temporal stuff I use to defend but I don't remember shields being this useless.
I had a tactical T6 ship from previous so I put that one on this figuring it would be better with double the hull of my science ship but I think enemies scale or something cause I'm taking 45k or more damage.
I still am enjoying the whole star trek nostalgia and I don't want to complain about difficulty but it's just frustrating having to wait until certain skills come off CD before I can attempt to take down a single wave.
IDK.
I tried to stick up for you a bit earlier when I thought some of the responses you received were inappropriate. There was a brief period in the games history (Delta Rising) when the difficulty increased suddenly to the extent that some members in fleets I was associated with possibly left out of frustration, but that was fixed some time ago and having recently started some new toons don't believe that this has repeated itself. Current scaling is fine imho and others who've participated in this thread have run the mission with starter gear, no traits, active doffs, etc as have I and didn't find any problems. I honestly think they were trying their best to put themselves in the position of a newer player and meant well.
One of the more positive aspects of this forum the past while has been ship build and advice threads in the academy section of the forums. All you have to do is ask. The only possible related shortfall of the game currently is that it could do a better job at teaching you how to set up your ship. It's good to hear that you and your friend having the difficulties are in a fleet so help is available.
Edit: there is one button aside from any career related abilities or consumables that really helps if you drag it to your powers bar - distribute shields. Spam it.
Yeah, that's usually the one I get if I don't have anything else. The Yellowstone is also one I go with and it's quite good. The Delta Flyer or the Captain's Yacht (for LTS) are two of the best shuttle-type. I've never tried that mission with a fighter, though I might one day.