I have been wondering about how this will fit into STO as I cant see how you could create a new STO character in the Discovery era and then bring them from the past Klingon war into the future Klingon war.
I wonder if they might have a separate discovery era map like they did with AoY but you either don't leave it, or leave it much later.
That would certainly keep the anti discovery people satisfied.
As an aside I still cannot see why these reasons for hating it are still used
1) It doesn't look like TOS
So you wanted them to make it look like a 1960's show with ropey effects? I can see what people are saying that its "too dark" remember that this follows on from Enterprise where Starfleet was more military because 7 million people got killed by the xindi not to mention the romulan wars. I think discovery will be the journey from that to what we see in TOS and the movies.
2) Burnham is a Mary Sue
I think someone already did a detailed video on this and she isn't. She has flaws, she isn't perfect despite being very clever. She is simply one of the most human star trek characters we have seen. If you'd seen you captain/mentor/friend killed in front of you, would you not want to save her mirror version?. She was a human effectively trying to be a Vulcan to hide the pains of the past
3)Its not Star Trek
The first 2 episodes it was as there is exploration and curiosity and Starfleet did not insta war with the Klingons. It certainly got darker after that but that's mostly because
Lorca was evil mirror lorca
. Once that was out of the way the crew certainly behaved more Starfleet. Yes Starfleet Commands actions at the end were more than questionable but they have done this before (Genesis Device, Invasive program to kill the Borg, Phase Cloaking and the Dominion War)
I have been wondering about how this will fit into STO as I cant see how you could create a new STO character in the Discovery era and then bring them from the past Klingon war into the future Klingon war.
I wonder if they might have a separate discovery era map like they did with AoY but you either don't leave it, or leave it much later.
That would certainly keep the anti discovery people satisfied.
As an aside I still cannot see why these reasons for hating it are still used
1) It doesn't look like TOS
So you wanted them to make it look like a 1960's show with ropey effects? I can see what people are saying that its "too dark" remember that this follows on from Enterprise where Starfleet was more military because 7 million people got killed by the xindi not to mention the romulan wars. I think discovery will be the journey from that to what we see in TOS and the movies.
2) Burnham is a Mary Sue
I think someone already did a detailed video on this and she isn't. She has flaws, she isn't perfect despite being very clever. She is simply one of the most human star trek characters we have seen. If you'd seen you captain/mentor/friend killed in front of you, would you not want to save her mirror version?. She was a human effectively trying to be a Vulcan to hide the pains of the past
3)Its not Star Trek
The first 2 episodes it was as there is exploration and curiosity and Starfleet did not insta war with the Klingons. It certainly got darker after that but that's mostly because
Lorca was evil mirror lorca
. Once that was out of the way the crew certainly behaved more Starfleet. Yes Starfleet Commands actions at the end were more than questionable but they have done this before (Genesis Device, Invasive program to kill the Borg, Phase Cloaking and the Dominion War)
i don't have any issue with DSC, but i do have an issue with the way Cryptic are going about bringing it into the game. i just get the impression it won't be anything more than AoY:
another small galaxy map.
another training cruise.
klingons attacking.
the captain is dead or has you take over.
you complete the mission and get promoted on the ship you served on.
Daniels is a background character until later on.
several missions reference from DSC and events in TOS that happened a few years previous to the series.
all of it builds into one big battle at the end, you and some of your crew are put into the future as temporal agents.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Please don't put this garbage into the game. CBS just lost its CEO, and Discovery is on the chopping block. It will be cancelled mid season and then you are stuck with garbage content. Shelve it. Move on.
uh. I hate to break it to you...the 'garbage' content is already in the game. If you didn't notice it already, avert your eyes and you wont notice the new content.
or better yet, try it first. You may enjoy STO's take on Discovery more than the actual show.
i don't have any issue with DSC, but i do have an issue with the way Cryptic are going about bringing it into the game. i just get the impression it won't be anything more than AoY
yea, you are probably right.
who knows though, they may actually expand on it if its popular enough considering its based on an ongoing show
I am concerned however that STO will now also be looking backwards, instead of moving forward. I had hoped to see an episode dealing with the Galactic Union sometime soon. Or episodes that have us make peace with the Voth and Undine, establishing formal relations and visiting their planets/space and so on. Things that matter in 'our' time instead of a conflict centuries ago that we already know was ended peacefully in the end. Another war with the Klingons just doesn't sound that interesting to me, we've been over that countless times.
We already made peace with the Undine, that was the whole point of Tuvok mind melding with the Undine bioship in the "Mindscape" at the beginning of the Delta Quadrant arc. Tuvok showed the Undine that the Iconians tricked them, and that we didn't break our promise, so the Undine stopped attacking us, and went back to upholding the deal made with Janeway. Being at peace with them doesn't mean they have to like us, or want us to visit their space however.
Any continuation of the present day story would involve something like the Kelvan Empire, or the T'kon Empire, coming back and attacking us. It wouldn't be about visiting races we already dealt with to do things we already did.
And the Galactic Union doesn't exist for another hundred years or so, we wouldn't see it in the game' normal storyline regardless.
For once, I just would like to see the storyline actually finishing and ending something - and what happens next with respect to that species. There are countless things and environments that could be added, worlds and species that could be revisitied, if only the story ever moved beyond just 'ok, the conflict is over now, bye'.
You know, going further than just an 'everything is fine now' scene like we had in that Tuvok episode or at the end of the Iconian war. I want to see some positive relations develop between the Alliance and their former enemies, not just an end to the conflict.
That was what I was talking about.
Just adding more species like the T'kon or the Kelvans doesn't meet that challenge and it is in no way an answer to what I was arguing for: to address the limited attention given to 95% of the species in this game after the conflict has ended. For once, it would be nice to see species feature in the game without them being just giant bullseyes. They somewhat moved into the right direction with the Tzenkethi defector, but that is still only one individual.
There is still so much to explore with the Undine, Voth, Vaadwaur, Tzenkethi - if only they weren't completely neglected after they have served their purpose as bullseyes.
Also, if we can keep going back in time, there is no good reason why we can't have a part of the game set in the future when the Galactic Union exists.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Sorry but Burnham IS a Mary sue. At least in the first 2 episodes.
Point one: Everyone loves her. Aside from some idiots/racists in her school days and that one Admiral, EVERYONE loves her. She treats people like TRIBBLE and nobody retaliates. Even AFTER she mutinies, when the Brig is damaged, everybody's sad that she might be dead. Then AFTER the big battle, when she should at the very least be confined to quarters, she's not only allowed on the bridge but suggests to the Captain the mission to the Klingon ship to capture the BBEG. AND goes on that same mission!
Point two: She's smarter than everyone else. Look at the first 2 episodes, EVERYTHING she says is correct. If Captain Georgio had followed her 'suggestion' to attack the Klingons, the war wouldn't have happened! She even Logic Bombs the ships computer to escape the Brig when it gets 'nearly' destroyed.
Point three: She treated differently from everyone else. She goes straight out of the Vulcan Academy into a First Officers position in Star Fleet. I don't care how good you are, NOBODY is going to put someone fresh out of school into the position of second in command of a Starship!
Point four: Plot Armor thick enough to build a Dyson Sphere out of. A Klingon Disruptor hits the ship, goes right through the ship, in just the right position to destroy the Brig and everyone in it. EXCEPT the, approximately, 100 square feet of floor space where Burnham ever so conveniently is!
So, upon reflection of the available evidence, Burnham IS a Mary Sue. She might not be your typical Mary Sue, but she's definitely a Sue. I'd suggest the Jerk Sue variant. Not your traditional Sue but a Sue all the same!
Sorry but Burnham IS a Mary sue. At least in the first 2 episodes.
Point one: Everyone loves her. Aside from some idiots/racists in her school days and that one Admiral, EVERYONE loves her. She treats people like **** and nobody retaliates. Even AFTER she mutinies, when the Brig is damaged, everybody's sad that she might be dead. Then AFTER the big battle, when she should at the very least be confined to quarters, she's not only allowed on the bridge but suggests to the Captain the mission to the Klingon ship to capture the BBEG. AND goes on that same mission!
Oh yes they all love her enough to send her to prison where the prisoners want to kill her and the crew of discovery with the exception of Tilly hate her until she is able to prove herself. At the point where she escapes, the ship is adrift and in serious danger and she is allowed to assist out of desperation. She also admits to Saru she hasn't treated him well in later episodes.
Point two: She's smarter than everyone else. Look at the first 2 episodes, EVERYTHING she says is correct. If Captain Georgio had followed her 'suggestion' to attack the Klingons, the war wouldn't have happened! She even Logic Bombs the ships computer to escape the Brig when it gets 'nearly' destroyed.
She actually admits she was wrong in the last episode regarding attacking the Klingons and its not the only time she is wrong. Lorca actually calls her on it. Of course she is smart, she was educated by Vulcans, show me someone who was educated by Vulcans who isn't smart.
Point three: She treated differently from everyone else. She goes straight out of the Vulcan Academy into a First Officers position in Star Fleet. I don't care how good you are, NOBODY is going to put someone fresh out of school into the position of second in command of a Starship!
Where's the evidence of that? she joined the shenzou and BECAME a first officer after a number of years. She joined as a xenoanthropologist.
Point four: Plot Armor thick enough to build a Dyson Sphere out of. A Klingon Disruptor hits the ship, goes right through the ship, in just the right position to destroy the Brig and everyone in it. EXCEPT the, approximately, 100 square feet of floor space where Burnham ever so conveniently is!
Right and no other star trek has done this?. There were 2 people in the brig, Burnham and some concussed guy from the bridge who was lost. And yes her cell did survive but it was degrading and her death was imminent.
So, upon reflection of the available evidence, Burnham IS a Mary Sue. She might not be your typical Mary Sue, but she's definitely a Sue. I'd suggest the Jerk Sue variant. Not your traditional Sue but a Sue all the same!
Please don't stereotype people, its not nice and its not clever. And it isn't Star Trek.
I have been wondering about how this will fit into STO as I cant see how you could create a new STO character in the Discovery era and then bring them from the past Klingon war into the future Klingon war.
I wonder if they might have a separate discovery era map like they did with AoY but you either don't leave it, or leave it much later.
That would certainly keep the anti discovery people satisfied.
As an aside I still cannot see why these reasons for hating it are still used
1) It doesn't look like TOS
So you wanted them to make it look like a 1960's show with ropey effects? I can see what people are saying that its "too dark" remember that this follows on from Enterprise where Starfleet was more military because 7 million people got killed by the xindi not to mention the romulan wars. I think discovery will be the journey from that to what we see in TOS and the movies.
2) Burnham is a Mary Sue
I think someone already did a detailed video on this and she isn't. She has flaws, she isn't perfect despite being very clever. She is simply one of the most human star trek characters we have seen. If you'd seen you captain/mentor/friend killed in front of you, would you not want to save her mirror version?. She was a human effectively trying to be a Vulcan to hide the pains of the past
3)Its not Star Trek
The first 2 episodes it was as there is exploration and curiosity and Starfleet did not insta war with the Klingons. It certainly got darker after that but that's mostly because
Lorca was evil mirror lorca
. Once that was out of the way the crew certainly behaved more Starfleet. Yes Starfleet Commands actions at the end were more than questionable but they have done this before (Genesis Device, Invasive program to kill the Borg, Phase Cloaking and the Dominion War)
Hold it...it always drives me BONKERS when someone says "you want cardboard sets,etc" anytime tos is brought up.
Phase 2, ST Continues, Axxanar, as well as In A Mirror Darkly, showed very nicely TOS looking good in modern times.
As for 2, IF I lost a loved one or friend, and saw they had a counterpart in another dimension....YET are barbaric and evil, no I would not bring a space hitler, which Georgio was.
I have been wondering about how this will fit into STO as I cant see how you could create a new STO character in the Discovery era and then bring them from the past Klingon war into the future Klingon war.
I wonder if they might have a separate discovery era map like they did with AoY but you either don't leave it, or leave it much later.
That would certainly keep the anti discovery people satisfied.
As an aside I still cannot see why these reasons for hating it are still used
1) It doesn't look like TOS
So you wanted them to make it look like a 1960's show with ropey effects? I can see what people are saying that its "too dark" remember that this follows on from Enterprise where Starfleet was more military because 7 million people got killed by the xindi not to mention the romulan wars. I think discovery will be the journey from that to what we see in TOS and the movies.
2) Burnham is a Mary Sue
I think someone already did a detailed video on this and she isn't. She has flaws, she isn't perfect despite being very clever. She is simply one of the most human star trek characters we have seen. If you'd seen you captain/mentor/friend killed in front of you, would you not want to save her mirror version?. She was a human effectively trying to be a Vulcan to hide the pains of the past
3)Its not Star Trek
The first 2 episodes it was as there is exploration and curiosity and Starfleet did not insta war with the Klingons. It certainly got darker after that but that's mostly because
Lorca was evil mirror lorca
. Once that was out of the way the crew certainly behaved more Starfleet. Yes Starfleet Commands actions at the end were more than questionable but they have done this before (Genesis Device, Invasive program to kill the Borg, Phase Cloaking and the Dominion War)
Hold it...it always drives me BONKERS when someone says "you want cardboard sets,etc" anytime tos is brought up.
Phase 2, ST Continues, Axxanar, as well as In A Mirror Darkly, showed very nicely TOS looking good in modern times.
But they are still just high quality replicas of the TOS look, its still a 1960s look regardless of how high quality it is. It still works if you do the odd one or two episodes for nostalgia but you cant do an entire series based on it because they only people who would watch it are people who loved that look and that would never work for modern audiences.
I do think DIS could have done a mixture of the TOS and a more future look like enterprise did though.
As for 2, IF I lost a loved one or friend, and saw they had a counterpart in another dimension....YET are barbaric and evil, no I would not bring a space hitler, which Georgio was.
I'm not disputing that isn't evil, but could you watch someone you loved die for the second time? Even Burnham admits she couldn't watch her die again.
1. I hope this Disco stuff attracts enough funding and players to keep the game afloat, at least to make it to the new TNG/Picard series assuming that is for real.
2. Let us make Terrans that account-unlock terran stuff (ship prefixes, visuals, etc); it was the only part of Disco I actually enjoyed and thought to have been well done.
3. Stopped trying to finish new recruits since making 2 Delta recruits, temporal I left half finished, dominion shelved, this too will be shelved on arrival since I play STO for end-game content with others, otherwise plenty of other better single player games that don't require re-grinding the exact same content I've already done on a ton of characters by now. The loss of keybind tray for Jem'Hadar in a fast game where powers do not activate reliably or timely was another giant let-down by how alt fractions are treated, nevermind existing Romulans and the 'there won't never be another romulan ship' thing.
4. Disco was more entertaining towards the end as a generic sci-fi show, esp with Terrans, but nothing about it reminds me of the Star Trek I used to know, have zero desire to re-watch any of it or be reminded of it.
Devs: Provide the option to Turn OFF full screen flashes from enemy ship explosions
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I have been wondering about how this will fit into STO as I cant see how you could create a new STO character in the Discovery era and then bring them from the past Klingon war into the future Klingon war.
I wonder if they might have a separate discovery era map like they did with AoY but you either don't leave it, or leave it much later.
That would certainly keep the anti discovery people satisfied.
As an aside I still cannot see why these reasons for hating it are still used
1) It doesn't look like TOS
So you wanted them to make it look like a 1960's show with ropey effects? I can see what people are saying that its "too dark" remember that this follows on from Enterprise where Starfleet was more military because 7 million people got killed by the xindi not to mention the romulan wars. I think discovery will be the journey from that to what we see in TOS and the movies.
2) Burnham is a Mary Sue
I think someone already did a detailed video on this and she isn't. She has flaws, she isn't perfect despite being very clever. She is simply one of the most human star trek characters we have seen. If you'd seen you captain/mentor/friend killed in front of you, would you not want to save her mirror version?. She was a human effectively trying to be a Vulcan to hide the pains of the past
3)Its not Star Trek
The first 2 episodes it was as there is exploration and curiosity and Starfleet did not insta war with the Klingons. It certainly got darker after that but that's mostly because
Lorca was evil mirror lorca
. Once that was out of the way the crew certainly behaved more Starfleet. Yes Starfleet Commands actions at the end were more than questionable but they have done this before (Genesis Device, Invasive program to kill the Borg, Phase Cloaking and the Dominion War)
Hold it...it always drives me BONKERS when someone says "you want cardboard sets,etc" anytime tos is brought up.
Phase 2, ST Continues, Axxanar, as well as In A Mirror Darkly, showed very nicely TOS looking good in modern times.
But they are still just high quality replicas of the TOS look, its still a 1960s look regardless of how high quality it is. It still works if you do the odd one or two episodes for nostalgia but you cant do an entire series based on it because they only people who would watch it are people who loved that look and that would never work for modern audiences.
I do think DIS could have done a mixture of the TOS and a more future look like enterprise did though.
As for 2, IF I lost a loved one or friend, and saw they had a counterpart in another dimension....YET are barbaric and evil, no I would not bring a space hitler, which Georgio was.
I'm not disputing that isn't evil, but could you watch someone you loved die for the second time? Even Burnham admits she couldn't watch her die again.
I said it once, I'll say it again...if star wars can get away with having the old, 1970's looks to their films...one a prequel, and one a new installment, Trek can do the same.
I have been wondering about how this will fit into STO as I cant see how you could create a new STO character in the Discovery era and then bring them from the past Klingon war into the future Klingon war.
I wonder if they might have a separate discovery era map like they did with AoY but you either don't leave it, or leave it much later.
That would certainly keep the anti discovery people satisfied.
As an aside I still cannot see why these reasons for hating it are still used
1) It doesn't look like TOS
So you wanted them to make it look like a 1960's show with ropey effects? I can see what people are saying that its "too dark" remember that this follows on from Enterprise where Starfleet was more military because 7 million people got killed by the xindi not to mention the romulan wars. I think discovery will be the journey from that to what we see in TOS and the movies.
2) Burnham is a Mary Sue
I think someone already did a detailed video on this and she isn't. She has flaws, she isn't perfect despite being very clever. She is simply one of the most human star trek characters we have seen. If you'd seen you captain/mentor/friend killed in front of you, would you not want to save her mirror version?. She was a human effectively trying to be a Vulcan to hide the pains of the past
3)Its not Star Trek
The first 2 episodes it was as there is exploration and curiosity and Starfleet did not insta war with the Klingons. It certainly got darker after that but that's mostly because
Lorca was evil mirror lorca
. Once that was out of the way the crew certainly behaved more Starfleet. Yes Starfleet Commands actions at the end were more than questionable but they have done this before (Genesis Device, Invasive program to kill the Borg, Phase Cloaking and the Dominion War)
Hold it...it always drives me BONKERS when someone says "you want cardboard sets,etc" anytime tos is brought up.
Phase 2, ST Continues, Axxanar, as well as In A Mirror Darkly, showed very nicely TOS looking good in modern times.
But they are still just high quality replicas of the TOS look, its still a 1960s look regardless of how high quality it is. It still works if you do the odd one or two episodes for nostalgia but you cant do an entire series based on it because they only people who would watch it are people who loved that look and that would never work for modern audiences.
I do think DIS could have done a mixture of the TOS and a more future look like enterprise did though.
As for 2, IF I lost a loved one or friend, and saw they had a counterpart in another dimension....YET are barbaric and evil, no I would not bring a space hitler, which Georgio was.
I'm not disputing that isn't evil, but could you watch someone you loved die for the second time? Even Burnham admits she couldn't watch her die again.
I said it once, I'll say it again...if star wars can get away with having the old, 1970's looks to their films...one a prequel, and one a new installment, Trek can do the same.
On this point though: Star Wars has always been "a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away." Ie. disconnected. Star Trek prided itself on difficult story telling in an allegorical context. Ie. connected. Thus the visuals of Star Wars can run independent of evolving themes and design language (it's its own thing and further separation with time adds to the distance and mystique of the setting.) Star Trek tends to follow modern themes in design cues to provide a relatable setting to its host audience (which enhances its style of story telling.)
They do very different things and I think it would take substantial changes to the objectives, themes, writing and overall style of either property (it's all interconnected) to adopt the visual mode of the other to good effect. That could be done, but then I think Star Trek would resemble a production of Isaac Asimov's Foundation series (in how it develops it setting and themes) more than what we know today (which incidentally is how I tend to write for it in the Foundry, where topical design language isn't easy. )
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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Point three: She treated differently from everyone else. She goes straight out of the Vulcan Academy into a First Officers position in Star Fleet. I don't care how good you are, NOBODY is going to put someone fresh out of school into the position of second in command of a Starship!
Sorry, but are you talking about Burnham here? Because in the KT Starfleet put someone "fresh out of school" in command of a Starship.
Also see Red Squad, the original portrayal of Wesley Crusher, and our character in STO.
She's smarter than everyone else. Look at the first 2 episodes, EVERYTHING she says is correct. If Captain Georgio had followed her 'suggestion' to attack the Klingons, the war wouldn't have happened! She even Logic Bombs the ships computer to escape the Brig when it gets 'nearly' destroyed.
So when it's a male student of the Vulcan science academy hijacking the ship, out-logicing computers, escaping death through unlikely dramatic circumstance, and generally having the right answer or insight it's okay. But when it's a female graduate, then she's a Mary Sue.
Gotcha.
I don't care how good you are, NOBODY is going to put someone fresh out of school into the position of second in command of a Starship!
Should probably reinforce the context here: this post is on the Star Trek Online forums.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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I wonder if we'll be able to play Airiam's species?
I'm really, really hoping that her species/cyborg type is playable. Discovery had some great introductions to the FED and I would love for them to serve as central to the DSC mini-faction. It would be such a tragic waste if all we got were Human, Andorian, Tellarite, Vulcan again. That's my one big reservation about AoD: how Cryptic is going to handle species choice (IMO, they've been far too reductive in recent history, even considering the noted back-end difficulties of adding new playable species to the game, and I think that sticking to that trend would completely undermine the prospect of making another 23c character running through a temporal displacement arc. Please, branch out [because if I have to create a stock human for AoD it's forever going to play second fiddle to my main with a Crossfield.])
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Red Squad: this was a disaster. In fact, the whole point of the episodes involving them, was underlining and underscoring how much of a cluster-f*ck the whole idea tends to be.
Which wasn't contradicted when Burnham cracked and went so far as to mutiny for the sake of blowing up a ship which had two pivotal figures in Klingon history on board (no L'rell, no united empire in the near-to-mid term, Klingon culture was pushing in the opposite direction.) The war may not have started at that point but this is an armchair read of the situation (sans consideration of consequence, only primary effects) pushing for a interpretation which is, quite simply, BS in light of narrative structure.
The show was NOT pushing Burnham's initial reaction as the right choice, at all, as remember the Vulcans never truly reconciled with the Klingons in their "attack first" policy and this was never shown to be the correct default choice when dealing with the Klingons in later eras. Sarek's advice probably should have been a red flag for those familiar with the IP (harkening back to the old Vulcan High Command.) The Vulcans only avoided incidental conflict with a strategy which was ALSO flawed per the conventional ethics of Star Trek (see. reconciliation and cultural understanding, that's what was absent from the Battle at Binary on both sides.) It was another example of problems this era had (setting up the dramatic arc of the series and justifying why its events were at all worth consideration.)
Though of course let's forget all about that (ie. the entirety of Star Trek) and look no further than our knee-jerk reactions so we can criticize creative writing through endless contrarianism (C work at best for a lit class) wherever we feel we have a platform for displaying our fear and insecurity at a new show influencing STO (every new DSC thread is a clean slate for the same old points.)
second, mmmm... no, it's not a gender thing with Marysue Burnham. she could be male and it might actually be WORSE. The easy solution to fixing her, is simply to say "She's a bootleg Augment"-it explains her supernatural ability to use a martial art designed for and by people who can bend one inch steel bars (Vulcans can DO that) without looking like hulk hogan, endure temperature, gravity and other environmental extremes humans die in, and whose bodies are significantly more durable and faster than human bodies of the same age/weight/muscle tone and equivalent fitness, limb length (for leverage) etc. See, Burnham's problems begin with claiming her as a baseline human, then giving her wonder-woman capabilities (or Mary Marvel), without the superhero origin. she's supposedly mastered a martial art designed for a physically stronger, tougher and faster species well enough to 'accidentally' kill and intentinoally overcome (physically) members of a dedicated martial species that is also physically stronger, tougher, and faster-while still having the time to become intellectually superior to everyone around her (including vulcans).
Okay, the optics of this part are simply terrible and I suggest you simply take a step back for the sake of level discourse. It's not an gender thing, yet you find that not having the strength of her counterparts is absolutely disqualifying for her being capable at a technique (entirely because of what you IMAGINE is required based on a hyperbole at Vulcan physical strength [this another personal reinterpretation of canon with a questionable [if at all present] basis in source material?) Ie. a classic misogynist argument for the exclusion of women from professional fields and sports.
Just...no.
now, on top of that, we're going to give the XO position-a position that in most structured organizations requires (not a suggestion) that the officer be experienced? and she's just out of school?? I mean, we're not talking the 18th century British Army here where you bought your rank here and inexperienced noble children basically bought their way into a command...
Or like an ivy league business school graduate taking on the role of CEO, and the failure of Burnham to live up to that role (absolutely disqualifying for a Mary Sue label, which has probably lost all meaning now with how liberally folks on the net have been applying it to female leads in popular franchises with any quality related to "protagonist") could be taken as an indictment of the choice to make her XO with Saru in the picture as well (who didn't crack at Binary).
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
This is something I would miss I just hope they keep the old AOY faction as I like being a TOS characters for the short time and want to think that TRIBBLE does not exist. I could get past the Klingons looking like Orcs but the bad story writing, uninteresting characters and technology far beyond what they had in TOS time.
I don't care what CBS say there is nothing anyone can say that will convince me this is the prime timeline and this will be something I will hopefully be able to avoid completely.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Comments
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
I wonder if they might have a separate discovery era map like they did with AoY but you either don't leave it, or leave it much later.
That would certainly keep the anti discovery people satisfied.
As an aside I still cannot see why these reasons for hating it are still used
1) It doesn't look like TOS
So you wanted them to make it look like a 1960's show with ropey effects? I can see what people are saying that its "too dark" remember that this follows on from Enterprise where Starfleet was more military because 7 million people got killed by the xindi not to mention the romulan wars. I think discovery will be the journey from that to what we see in TOS and the movies.
2) Burnham is a Mary Sue
I think someone already did a detailed video on this and she isn't. She has flaws, she isn't perfect despite being very clever. She is simply one of the most human star trek characters we have seen. If you'd seen you captain/mentor/friend killed in front of you, would you not want to save her mirror version?. She was a human effectively trying to be a Vulcan to hide the pains of the past
3)Its not Star Trek
The first 2 episodes it was as there is exploration and curiosity and Starfleet did not insta war with the Klingons. It certainly got darker after that but that's mostly because
i don't have any issue with DSC, but i do have an issue with the way Cryptic are going about bringing it into the game. i just get the impression it won't be anything more than AoY:
another small galaxy map.
another training cruise.
klingons attacking.
the captain is dead or has you take over.
you complete the mission and get promoted on the ship you served on.
Daniels is a background character until later on.
several missions reference from DSC and events in TOS that happened a few years previous to the series.
all of it builds into one big battle at the end, you and some of your crew are put into the future as temporal agents.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
uh. I hate to break it to you...the 'garbage' content is already in the game. If you didn't notice it already, avert your eyes and you wont notice the new content.
or better yet, try it first. You may enjoy STO's take on Discovery more than the actual show.
yea, you are probably right.
who knows though, they may actually expand on it if its popular enough considering its based on an ongoing show
For once, I just would like to see the storyline actually finishing and ending something - and what happens next with respect to that species. There are countless things and environments that could be added, worlds and species that could be revisitied, if only the story ever moved beyond just 'ok, the conflict is over now, bye'.
You know, going further than just an 'everything is fine now' scene like we had in that Tuvok episode or at the end of the Iconian war. I want to see some positive relations develop between the Alliance and their former enemies, not just an end to the conflict.
That was what I was talking about.
Just adding more species like the T'kon or the Kelvans doesn't meet that challenge and it is in no way an answer to what I was arguing for: to address the limited attention given to 95% of the species in this game after the conflict has ended. For once, it would be nice to see species feature in the game without them being just giant bullseyes. They somewhat moved into the right direction with the Tzenkethi defector, but that is still only one individual.
There is still so much to explore with the Undine, Voth, Vaadwaur, Tzenkethi - if only they weren't completely neglected after they have served their purpose as bullseyes.
Also, if we can keep going back in time, there is no good reason why we can't have a part of the game set in the future when the Galactic Union exists.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
But has there been any information beyond 'new species'? I must have missed it, but I thought no specific details had been given yet?
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
There is no list as such but it does mention in the post that you can create a character from a few discovery era races.
Point one: Everyone loves her. Aside from some idiots/racists in her school days and that one Admiral, EVERYONE loves her. She treats people like TRIBBLE and nobody retaliates. Even AFTER she mutinies, when the Brig is damaged, everybody's sad that she might be dead. Then AFTER the big battle, when she should at the very least be confined to quarters, she's not only allowed on the bridge but suggests to the Captain the mission to the Klingon ship to capture the BBEG. AND goes on that same mission!
Point two: She's smarter than everyone else. Look at the first 2 episodes, EVERYTHING she says is correct. If Captain Georgio had followed her 'suggestion' to attack the Klingons, the war wouldn't have happened! She even Logic Bombs the ships computer to escape the Brig when it gets 'nearly' destroyed.
Point three: She treated differently from everyone else. She goes straight out of the Vulcan Academy into a First Officers position in Star Fleet. I don't care how good you are, NOBODY is going to put someone fresh out of school into the position of second in command of a Starship!
Point four: Plot Armor thick enough to build a Dyson Sphere out of. A Klingon Disruptor hits the ship, goes right through the ship, in just the right position to destroy the Brig and everyone in it. EXCEPT the, approximately, 100 square feet of floor space where Burnham ever so conveniently is!
So, upon reflection of the available evidence, Burnham IS a Mary Sue. She might not be your typical Mary Sue, but she's definitely a Sue. I'd suggest the Jerk Sue variant. Not your traditional Sue but a Sue all the same!
Please don't stereotype people, its not nice and its not clever. And it isn't Star Trek.
Hold it...it always drives me BONKERS when someone says "you want cardboard sets,etc" anytime tos is brought up.
Phase 2, ST Continues, Axxanar, as well as In A Mirror Darkly, showed very nicely TOS looking good in modern times.
As for 2, IF I lost a loved one or friend, and saw they had a counterpart in another dimension....YET are barbaric and evil, no I would not bring a space hitler, which Georgio was.
2. Let us make Terrans that account-unlock terran stuff (ship prefixes, visuals, etc); it was the only part of Disco I actually enjoyed and thought to have been well done.
3. Stopped trying to finish new recruits since making 2 Delta recruits, temporal I left half finished, dominion shelved, this too will be shelved on arrival since I play STO for end-game content with others, otherwise plenty of other better single player games that don't require re-grinding the exact same content I've already done on a ton of characters by now. The loss of keybind tray for Jem'Hadar in a fast game where powers do not activate reliably or timely was another giant let-down by how alt fractions are treated, nevermind existing Romulans and the 'there won't never be another romulan ship' thing.
4. Disco was more entertaining towards the end as a generic sci-fi show, esp with Terrans, but nothing about it reminds me of the Star Trek I used to know, have zero desire to re-watch any of it or be reminded of it.
I said it once, I'll say it again...if star wars can get away with having the old, 1970's looks to their films...one a prequel, and one a new installment, Trek can do the same.
On this point though: Star Wars has always been "a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away." Ie. disconnected. Star Trek prided itself on difficult story telling in an allegorical context. Ie. connected. Thus the visuals of Star Wars can run independent of evolving themes and design language (it's its own thing and further separation with time adds to the distance and mystique of the setting.) Star Trek tends to follow modern themes in design cues to provide a relatable setting to its host audience (which enhances its style of story telling.)
They do very different things and I think it would take substantial changes to the objectives, themes, writing and overall style of either property (it's all interconnected) to adopt the visual mode of the other to good effect. That could be done, but then I think Star Trek would resemble a production of Isaac Asimov's Foundation series (in how it develops it setting and themes) more than what we know today (which incidentally is how I tend to write for it in the Foundry, where topical design language isn't easy.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Also see Red Squad, the original portrayal of Wesley Crusher, and our character in STO.
So when it's a male student of the Vulcan science academy hijacking the ship, out-logicing computers, escaping death through unlikely dramatic circumstance, and generally having the right answer or insight it's okay. But when it's a female graduate, then she's a Mary Sue.
Gotcha.
Should probably reinforce the context here: this post is on the Star Trek Online forums.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I'm really, really hoping that her species/cyborg type is playable. Discovery had some great introductions to the FED and I would love for them to serve as central to the DSC mini-faction. It would be such a tragic waste if all we got were Human, Andorian, Tellarite, Vulcan again. That's my one big reservation about AoD: how Cryptic is going to handle species choice (IMO, they've been far too reductive in recent history, even considering the noted back-end difficulties of adding new playable species to the game, and I think that sticking to that trend would completely undermine the prospect of making another 23c character running through a temporal displacement arc. Please, branch out [because if I have to create a stock human for AoD it's forever going to play second fiddle to my main with a Crossfield.])
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Which wasn't contradicted when Burnham cracked and went so far as to mutiny for the sake of blowing up a ship which had two pivotal figures in Klingon history on board (no L'rell, no united empire in the near-to-mid term, Klingon culture was pushing in the opposite direction.) The war may not have started at that point but this is an armchair read of the situation (sans consideration of consequence, only primary effects) pushing for a interpretation which is, quite simply, BS in light of narrative structure.
The show was NOT pushing Burnham's initial reaction as the right choice, at all, as remember the Vulcans never truly reconciled with the Klingons in their "attack first" policy and this was never shown to be the correct default choice when dealing with the Klingons in later eras. Sarek's advice probably should have been a red flag for those familiar with the IP (harkening back to the old Vulcan High Command.) The Vulcans only avoided incidental conflict with a strategy which was ALSO flawed per the conventional ethics of Star Trek (see. reconciliation and cultural understanding, that's what was absent from the Battle at Binary on both sides.) It was another example of problems this era had (setting up the dramatic arc of the series and justifying why its events were at all worth consideration.)
Though of course let's forget all about that (ie. the entirety of Star Trek) and look no further than our knee-jerk reactions so we can criticize creative writing through endless contrarianism (C work at best for a lit class) wherever we feel we have a platform for displaying our fear and insecurity at a new show influencing STO (every new DSC thread is a clean slate for the same old points.)
Okay, the optics of this part are simply terrible and I suggest you simply take a step back for the sake of level discourse. It's not an gender thing, yet you find that not having the strength of her counterparts is absolutely disqualifying for her being capable at a technique (entirely because of what you IMAGINE is required based on a hyperbole at Vulcan physical strength [this another personal reinterpretation of canon with a questionable [if at all present] basis in source material?) Ie. a classic misogynist argument for the exclusion of women from professional fields and sports.
Just...no.
Or like an ivy league business school graduate taking on the role of CEO, and the failure of Burnham to live up to that role (absolutely disqualifying for a Mary Sue label, which has probably lost all meaning now with how liberally folks on the net have been applying it to female leads in popular franchises with any quality related to "protagonist") could be taken as an indictment of the choice to make her XO with Saru in the picture as well (who didn't crack at Binary).
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I don't care what CBS say there is nothing anyone can say that will convince me this is the prime timeline and this will be something I will hopefully be able to avoid completely.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]