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Adding "Fleet Captain" and "Commodore" Titles to Flag Officers

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  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,483 Arc User
    > @rattler2 said:
    > I'm not disputing character existance or Admiral levels.
    >
    > Just saying that we have no evidence of Commodore rank after TOS. And wasn't Starfleet's rank structure based on the US Navy? If ranks in real life can and have been retired, who's to say its not true in Star Trek as well.
    >
    > Absence of evidence one way or the other does not equal positive proof of existance.
    >
    > That's like going into a paranormal investigation to PROVE a haunting, finding nothing, and saying that its proof positive that there's a ghost there because nothing happened.
    >
    > We have no evidence one way or the other besides the fact we don't see the rank again post TOS. Does it exist? We don't know. We have no on screen, canon evidence post TOS.
    >
    > I'm all for adding TITLES, but replacing a rank for one that as far as we know was only ever seen in TOS... not so sure that's a good idea.

    The actual real life undisputable reason for the discontinuation of use of the rank Commodore in Trek, as explained by the people who actually made the show, is that it was phased out by the US navy and they didn't want to confuse the audience, plus TOS left bad connotations on the rank as nearly every Commodore seen was insane or otherwise an antagonist. Yeah it isn't "screen canon" but real life trumps canon.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,461 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    real life trumps canon.
    It in fact does not.
  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,483 Arc User
    > @warpangel said:
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    > real life trumps canon.
    >
    >
    >
    > It in fact does not.

    In fact it does in this case, as the reason the showmakers stopped using the rank directly affected all canon following the decision. That reason is a fact, facts cannot be changed, there are not versions of truth, it simply is.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,461 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    In fact it does in this case, as the reason the showmakers stopped using the rank directly affected all canon following the decision. That reason is a fact, facts cannot be changed, there are not versions of truth, it simply is.
    The shows not using something is not the same as it not existing.
  • pwemademedothispwemademedothis Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    azrael605 wrote: »
    ...real life trumps canon.

    The Eugenics Wars.
    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Eugenics_Wars

  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,726 Arc User
    > @azrael605 said:
    > > @warpangel said:
    > > azrael605 wrote: »
    > >
    > > real life trumps canon.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > It in fact does not.
    >
    > In fact it does in this case, as the reason the showmakers stopped using the rank directly affected all canon following the decision. That reason is a fact, facts cannot be changed, there are not versions of truth, it simply is.

    ENT and the KT like a word with you. If RL would trump canon it would be irrelevant that it takes place before TNG. Further, we never see any one-pip flag officer ever again in post TNG, we never see one being called RALH. So the rank clearly still exists.
    2r2u1s2.jpg
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,105 Bug Hunter
    azrael605 wrote: »
    ...real life trumps canon.

    The Eugenics Wars.
    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Eugenics_Wars

    Retconned to take place around the same time as WWIII.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • sirmaydaysirmayday Member Posts: 535 Arc User
    Two thoughts on this discussion:

    1) I got the impression that Starfleet standardized things along the lines of the modern USN (as opposed to USCG and older naval tradition) as the series wore on (which, perhaps not coincidentally, chronologically culminated in a couple of military-themed seasons of DS9). With commodore disappearing from (real life) modern usage, metafictional convention regarding this situation suggests it would fall from common usage in Dominion War- (and presumably later-) era Starfleet.

    2) That aside, and with no disrespect intended to servicemen past, present or future, I think the naval flag rank structure needs work. Rear Admiral sounds clunky when you have to add Lower or Upper Half, and is imprecise otherwise. I was just a few keystrokes away from suggesting simply replacing Rear Admiral, Lower Half, with Commodore when I realized that, for non-KDF* factions, right now Cryptic can get away with calling all level 40+ characters 'admiral' in dialog, which is probably useful.

    *Yeah, I know, Jem'Hadar aren't admirals, but all of their player ranks use 'First' as the short form, so they're not really relevant to the point.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 8,908 Arc User
    I think we are caught in a Temporal Loop on this Topic. We usually have this debate just about every year. Based upon current trends, I'm surprised it hasn't been added to the FCT. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    sirmayday wrote: »
    Two thoughts on this discussion:

    1) I got the impression that Starfleet standardized things along the lines of the modern USN (as opposed to USCG and older naval tradition) as the series wore on (which, perhaps not coincidentally, chronologically culminated in a couple of military-themed seasons of DS9). With commodore disappearing from (real life) modern usage, metafictional convention regarding this situation suggests it would fall from common usage in Dominion War- (and presumably later-) era Starfleet.

    2) That aside, and with no disrespect intended to servicemen past, present or future, I think the naval flag rank structure needs work. Rear Admiral sounds clunky when you have to add Lower or Upper Half, and is imprecise otherwise. I was just a few keystrokes away from suggesting simply replacing Rear Admiral, Lower Half, with Commodore when I realized that, for non-KDF* factions, right now Cryptic can get away with calling all level 40+ characters 'admiral' in dialog, which is probably useful.

    *Yeah, I know, Jem'Hadar aren't admirals, but all of their player ranks use 'First' as the short form, so they're not really relevant to the point.

    I think another reason of moving away from commandore (in both real life and in-game) is that it can be confused with "commander" (a much lower rank) when spoken (especial the voice isn't 10% clear).

    Similar possibility for confusion is with "captain" which is both a rank and honorary rank for any CO of a ship regardless of their actual rank.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,461 Arc User
    sirmayday wrote: »
    Cryptic can get away with calling all level 40+ characters 'admiral' in dialog, which is probably useful.
    Characters aren't called anything in dialog. Ever. They are called Admiral or whatever only in text, where it makes absolutely no practical difference what the program automatically substitutes in for the <insert title here> tag. Which is why they really should be using the player's chosen title instead of a fixed level title.
    ltminns wrote: »
    I think we are caught in a Temporal Loop on this Topic. We usually have this debate just about every year. Based upon current trends, I'm surprised it hasn't been added to the FCT. ;)
    If they had the game address players by the title they choose instead of a fixed title, people would stop talking about it. And they could give people optional title for "Commodore" or whatever they want.

    As it is, what title you get called at level 40-44 is pretty much meaningless. It only takes a few missions to level up over that.
  • pwemademedothispwemademedothis Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    ...real life trumps canon.

    The Eugenics Wars.
    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Eugenics_Wars

    Retconned to take place around the same time as WWIII.

    Not really. From the article cited previously:

    "In contrast to the Eugenics Wars having previously been established as taking place in the 1990s, "Doctor Bashir, I Presume", set in 2373, references the Eugenics Wars as having occurred two centuries prior to the episode, placing the Wars in the late 22nd century. As Ronald D. Moore later admitted, this statement was a production error, a line he had taken from The Wrath of Khan, but he had accidentally forgotten to account for the episode being set a century later than the film. (AOL chat, 1997) Confessed Moore, "It was simply a mistake. The date of the Eugenics Wars is something that we have been studiously trying not to pin ourselves down about, because obviously they aren't happening around as we speak [....] What looked like the distant future in 1967 is not so distant any more. I don't blame them for not having the foresight to see that in 30 years this would become important in the series." A production staffer from Star Trek: Voyager suggested the date had deliberately been changed on DS9 to account for the Eugenics Wars having not been mentioned in the "Future's End" two-parter. Moore flatly rejected that theory and responded, "We never talked to Voyager about it." (Cinefantastique, Vol. 29, Nos. 6/7, p. 50)"

  • azrael605azrael605 Member Posts: 9,483 Arc User
    Targ, warp, etc. I gave the only actual reason the rank was taken out of use in Trek, I do not and will not care about any arguments over it. Those are the facts. Nothing any of you argue will change that.
    There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

    One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.

    You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.

    Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events.

    Robert Heinlein
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,726 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Targ, warp, etc. I gave the only actual reason the rank was taken out of use in Trek, I do not and will not care about any arguments over it. Those are the facts. Nothing any of you argue will change that.

    Since it was re-introduced again the reason is no longer alid though. You can do whatever you want, it just makes no sense pig-1.gif​​
    2r2u1s2.jpg
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,105 Bug Hunter
    artan42 wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    ...real life trumps canon.

    The Eugenics Wars.
    http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Eugenics_Wars

    Retconned to take place around the same time as WWIII.

    Not really. From the article cited previously:

    "In contrast to the Eugenics Wars having previously been established as taking place in the 1990s, "Doctor Bashir, I Presume", set in 2373, references the Eugenics Wars as having occurred two centuries prior to the episode, placing the Wars in the late 22nd century. As Ronald D. Moore later admitted, this statement was a production error, a line he had taken from The Wrath of Khan, but he had accidentally forgotten to account for the episode being set a century later than the film. (AOL chat, 1997) Confessed Moore, "It was simply a mistake. The date of the Eugenics Wars is something that we have been studiously trying not to pin ourselves down about, because obviously they aren't happening around as we speak [....] What looked like the distant future in 1967 is not so distant any more. I don't blame them for not having the foresight to see that in 30 years this would become important in the series." A production staffer from Star Trek: Voyager suggested the date had deliberately been changed on DS9 to account for the Eugenics Wars having not been mentioned in the "Future's End" two-parter. Moore flatly rejected that theory and responded, "We never talked to Voyager about it." (Cinefantastique, Vol. 29, Nos. 6/7, p. 50)"

    Evidence for 1990's:
    1992 mentioned in 'Space Seed' and 'late 20th century' mentioned in TWoK

    Evidence for 2050's or 2090's:
    'Space Seed' and TWoK both state the EWs took place 200 years ago (i.e. 200 years prior to 2265)
    'Hatchery' states that Archer's Great Grandfather fought in the Eugenics war this takes us back to the mid to late 2000's.
    No impending or undergoing EW is mention in 'Future's End' set in 1996.
    The German translation of 'Space Seed' apparently states the EW took place in 2090

    Evidence for 2170's:
    200 years ago mentioned in 'Doctor Bashir, I Presume' (i.e. 200 years prior to 2373)

    The hypothesis with the most support is the second one and it also has the evidence from the more modern shows (ENT and VGR). Taking into account the 'error' for 'Doctor Bashir, I Presume' and correcting it to 300 years places the EW into the midpoint between both timeframes on the second hypothesis giving it even more support.

    It's clear TOS has been retconned again and that the EW did not take place in the 90s any more than the Starship Class, UESPA controlled, USS Enterprise was powered by Dilithium and could break the time warp barrier.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,461 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Targ, warp, etc. I gave the only actual reason the rank was taken out of use in Trek, I do not and will not care about any arguments over it. Those are the facts. Nothing any of you argue will change that.
    No, the facts are that the rank has been used in Trek and has never been "taken out," regardless of what some person(s) that haven't been named may allegedly have said somewhere that hasn't been quoted or linked to.

    Reality. That which exists independently of ideas concerning it.

    And if you don't care to discuss the topic, nobody's forcing you to.
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,105 Bug Hunter
    In early TNG the producers may have possibly decided to stop using the rank for whatever reason (possibly related to what a particular military on Earth did, possibly because they started to focus almost entirely on 3 star admirals) but by ENT the producers obviously changed their minds.

    The producers of ENT produced ST closer to the present than the producers of TNG regardless of when the shows are set in-universe. The producers of the KT even closer in the future.

    'TOS left bad connotations on the rank as nearly every Commodore seen was insane or otherwise an antagonist' is also clearly not a reason as those very same TNG producers went and tarnished all their three star admirals in the same way TOS did with their 1 stars.

    I think a list of decent admirals can be listed on one hand (Gardner, Pike, Forrest, and Ross). The rest are either insane, evil, or evilly insane (I'm looking at you genocidaires like Cornwall or Marcus).

    (That is admirals who are admirals in the main run, not Archer, Kirk, Janway, Riker or any other main character promoted in flash-forwards or alternate timelines (except Pike obviously).)​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • siotaylorsiotaylor Member Posts: 184 Arc User
    bloodyriz wrote: »
    jade1280 wrote: »
    Moist.


    Or was that another crytpic game? :lol:

    Nope, it's in STO.​​

    Achievement for fluidic space, I believe, after finishing the mission Fluid Dynamics.

    What this game needs is a T6 Oberth Class!
  • siotaylorsiotaylor Member Posts: 184 Arc User
    To be fair, Commodore should be an optional title gained on reaching level 64.
    What this game needs is a T6 Oberth Class!
  • sirmaydaysirmayday Member Posts: 535 Arc User
    siotaylor wrote: »
    To be fair, Commodore should be an optional title gained on reaching level 64.

    Actually made me laugh out loud with that one. Well played.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 8,908 Arc User
    Since we seem to be into refiguring dates for some of this stuff, I thought since the late 1960s, that TOS took place around 2220. This is based upon dialog in 'Space Seed' and 'Metamorphosis'

    Warp Drive was invented in 2018 (Space Seed).

    Zefram Cochran invented it. The actor who played Zefram was about 35 during the time, Episode dialog also mentions he looks 35, and Kirk thought he looked very familiar. Invention of the Warp Drive by Zefram would have been around that time.

    Zefram was just about dead at 87, when the Companion rejuvenated him to 35.

    McCoy says Zefram died 150 years ago. So 87-35=52 + 150 + 2018 = 2220 or so.
    ,
    Now if you want to take the retcon 'First Contact' date of the Warp Drive invention as 2063, that is 45 years later than 2018. Adding 45 to the previously calculated 2200, brings us to 2265.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,534 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Except we don't hear about Commodore post TOS. Not even in the TMP era.

    Actually, there IS a reference to a Commodore in TMP, but not thereafter.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 9,726 Arc User
    > @colonelmarik said:
    > rattler2 wrote: »
    >
    > Except we don't hear about Commodore post TOS. Not even in the TMP era.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Actually, there IS a reference to a Commodore in TMP, but not thereafter.

    TNG "Conspiracy" is the ladt time a Commodore shows up on screen (on a computer screen) in TNG.
    2r2u1s2.jpg
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,534 Arc User
    Ah, that's possible. The last one we *heard* about was a Commodore mentioned in comm traffic near spacedock. I hadn't scrutinized the video. Conspiracy would have been TNG Season 1.

    It's often been said that there's no Commodores because we never hear about them. I can't stand that argument, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    We KNOW there were Commodores (at least until TMP and apparently TNG Season 1). There's nothing ever stated or suggested to indicate that was ever changed.

    But then, all of this is a very old argument. We've been asking for the rank of Commodore since beta testing.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
  • thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Since our player characters have "Title" selection drop downs, adding the above honorifics so that they may be used wherever the titles may actually get used in game wouldn't suck, and would be a nice nod to TOS tradition and lore (Commodores Decker and Mendez, Fleet Captains Pike and Garth ["...LORD Garth!" someone interjects from off screen...])

    What's the harm? :-)

    Personally, I think I'm going to color my Odyssey uniform silver captains' pips gold to signify the posting.

    I'd love to see this happen. However, this request for other rank names has been going on since this game was released and as you know, it has never been implemented. I wouldn't hold anything back while you wait for this to happen.
    IvaWOgM.pnghzG3baX.pngvQTD03D.png​​
    STAR TREK
    div_spacer.png
  • lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 251 Arc User
    I'd be all for Commodore being an ingame rank. Honestly it'd make far more sense than admirals flying ships. It'd also help solve some of the confusion. I get STO is based on USN ranks, but not everyone lives in the US, and I doubt all Americans are familiar with USN ranks.

    Whereas USN\STO ranks go:
    Lieutenant > Lieutenant Commander > Commander > Captain > Rear Admiral (lower half) > Rear Admiral > Vice Admiral > Admiral > Fleet Admiral (with KDF flag ranks using US Army titles except for General of the Army which is instead called Dahar Master)

    Commonwealth ranks go:
    Lieutenant > Lieutenant Commander > Commander > Captain > Commodore > Rear Admiral > Vice Admiral > Admiral > Admiral of the Fleet

    As you can see they're fairly similar, but the Commonwealth system makes a distinction between flag rank - Rear Admiral and above, and ordinary commissioned (non-flag) officers. Historically Commodore was an appointment, rather than a substantive rank - akin to all vessel commanders being captains even if they're not of Captain rank. Commodores were the senior commander of a squadron - which could operate independently as might be the case with subs, and conceivably would be individual lacking even Captain rank.




  • psiameesepsiameese Member Posts: 1,371 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    I think we are caught in a Temporal Loop on this Topic. We usually have this debate just about every year. Based upon current trends, I'm surprised it hasn't been added to the FCT. ;)

    There isn't any reason to bring up the FCT. As our Development Team has never said NO Commodores in our STO game, forever time immemorial. ;) However, I've posed the question of this rank title with a previous Producer. Who suggested in his response to my question that Commodore would become an option in the future of our game. This was not long before introduction of the Doff System (which I had assumed was what was being alluded to. And continues to make sense to me.) While that may well have been years ago, if an Endgame (CBS Said NO!) Constitution-class starship can become a reality? So can the rank title of Commodore.
    (/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
    #TASforSTO
  • siotaylorsiotaylor Member Posts: 184 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    Since we seem to be into refiguring dates for some of this stuff, I thought since the late 1960s, that TOS took place around 2220. This is based upon dialog in 'Space Seed' and 'Metamorphosis'

    Warp Drive was invented in 2018 (Space Seed).

    Zefram Cochran invented it. The actor who played Zefram was about 35 during the time, Episode dialog also mentions he looks 35, and Kirk thought he looked very familiar. Invention of the Warp Drive by Zefram would have been around that time.

    Zefram was just about dead at 87, when the Companion rejuvenated him to 35.

    McCoy says Zefram died 150 years ago. So 87-35=52 + 150 + 2018 = 2220 or so.
    ,
    Now if you want to take the retcon 'First Contact' date of the Warp Drive invention as 2063, that is 45 years later than 2018. Adding 45 to the previously calculated 2200, brings us to 2265.

    Cochran was also supposedly born on the Alpha Centauri colony, though in the real universe that presents other issues like a lack of habitable planets. The problem is that Trek writers never cared too much about what was and wasn't canon until the fans started making an issue of it.

    The producers got so frustrated at one point, if I recall, that they were almost ready to retcon the lot and declare TOS to be non-canon just to please the TNG fans, which at the time were their primary source of income. This nugget came from people who knew much more than me, since at the time I found most of the fanbase rather toxic, and avoided involvement.
    What this game needs is a T6 Oberth Class!
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,757 Arc User
    Since our player characters have "Title" selection drop downs, adding the above honorifics so that they may be used wherever the titles may actually get used in game wouldn't suck, and would be a nice nod to TOS tradition and lore (Commodores Decker and Mendez, Fleet Captains Pike and Garth ["...LORD Garth!" someone interjects from off screen...])

    What's the harm? :-)

    Personally, I think I'm going to color my Odyssey uniform silver captains' pips gold to signify the posting.

    fleet captain is unlikely but Commodore could be possible, so long as fleet admiral is taken away in exchange, then yeah.

    anything that gets the rank system sorted a bit more realistically i don't mind.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 8,461 Arc User
    siotaylor wrote: »
    To be fair, Commodore should be an optional title gained on reaching level 64.
    Seconded. :D
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