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My problems with TRIBBLE

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Also, the path to 2409 is mostly broad story beats with only a few specific details mentioned. For example:
    (Picard) also offers to mediate peace talks between the Klingon Empire and the Gorn Hegemony, but the offer is refused by King Slathis.
    That's something that probably took less than a day. Thus you can handwave it as something that happened between episodes if you want, or after the last episode maybe. We don't know yet when exactly they're going to set it.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    Does it take place in the timeline in which the U.S.S. Kelvin was not attacked by Nero? If yes then it's prime timeline. It doesn't really matter if it's a canonical work or not. Prime or Kelvin Timeline are in-universe terms or rather for in-universe events. It's like a dating system and even fictional (here read non-canonical) events can be placed in relation to other events.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    Does it take place in the timeline in which the U.S.S. Kelvin was not attacked by Nero? If yes then it's prime timeline. It doesn't really matter if it's a canonical work or not. Prime or Kelvin Timeline are in-universe terms or rather for in-universe events. It's like a dating system and even fictional (here read non-canonical) events can be placed in relation to other events.
    That's... not the question i was posing. The question is what dates events happened and in what order, which we don't have.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    starkaos wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Why would they respect STO in the first place? It's just a game, games are non-canonical. The show writes the canon going forward. STO will retain it's story but may incorporate bits and pieces of the new shows.

    Because some fans believe that STO is part of the Prime Universe when it is strictly limited to only TV series and movies. STO and the novels are set in parallel universes and not part of the Prime Universe.
    Slight modification - they're part of the Prime Timeline until they're not. There are quite a few of the old Trek novels (I mean back in the day, like '70s and early '80s) that could be slotted into the last two years of Kirk's initial assignment aboard Enterprise, because there's nothing in later canon that contradicts them. Similarly, STO is Prime until Disco or one of the new shows contradicts it, at which point STO either adjusts its history (easy enough - it's been done several times already, after all) or becomes an alternate timeline.

    I was talking about the Destiny/Typhon Pact novels and the Shatnerverse novels not some old novel from the 70s and 80s. STO, the Destiny Novels, and likely the new Picard series contradicts each other. Since STO and Destiny/Typhon Pact novels contradict each other, then they both can't be part of the Prime Timeline. So either one of them is part of the Prime Timeline or neither of them are. So unless the Picard series treats STO or the Destiny/Typhon Pact novels as canon, then only the Picard series is part of the Prime Timeline. Of course, there is nothing stopping the creators of the Picard series to take inspiration from STO and the Destiny/Typhon Pact novels, but only that minor portion would be part of the Prime Timeline.

    It is far easier to treat STO and the Destiny/Typhon Pact novels as parallel universes that were 99.99999999999% identical to the Prime Timeline until after Nemesis since the amount of effort required to force STO into the same timeline as the new Picard series would completely change the nature of the game. A good portion of the original game deals with Species 8472 manipulating events behind the scenes. Without Species 8472 in the new Picard series, there is no reason for the Klingon/Gorn War and the eventual Klingon/Federation War in STO.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    the klingons don't NEED external manipulation as an excuse to go to war - they are capable of doing that just fine on their own​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    the klingons don't NEED external manipulation as an excuse to go to war - they are capable of doing that just fine on their own​​

    Technically, it was external manipulation of the Gorn and Federation that caused the wars.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    You said "the novels". If you meant specific novels that had already been contradicted by canon (like Ford's novels The Final Reflection and How Much For Just the Planet?, for example), you should have said so.

    And thus far, on the occasions when something in STO has been contradicted by later canon, the devs' response has been the most reasonable one - to change the game's story to fit. That keeps STO in the Prime timeline, because the parts that aren't - or, more accurately, weren't - have been excised.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    How do we know that Ford's novels are not set in a parallel universe? There is also Federation by Judith and Garfield Reeve-Stevens which dealt with the life of Cochrane.

    When has STO ever changed to fit the Prime timeline dictated by later canon? The only possible time it can be contradicted by later canon is with Discovery since it is the only show or movie set in the Prime Universe that aired after Nemesis. AFAIK, Klingons in STO still look like TNG Klingons not Discovery Klingons, no holographic communicators in STO, and there hasn't been contradictions between STO and Discovery. AFAIK, the changes to the old missions were to get rid of bad missions and make the story arcs more consistent and better not because they were contradicted by later canon since the last mission revamp was the Cardassian Struggle revamp in October 2015 and Discovery first aired in 2017.

    Obviously, the new Picard series is going to be full of contradictions for STO since it supposedly is set in the 2390s. With the amount of contradictions caused by the new Picard series, it will be extremely confusing for STO players and hard work for the devs to make STO consistent with the new series.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    it must also be really confusing, someone coming to STO from armada or legacy and wondering why there's no mention of the borg invasion immediately after the dominion war and subsequent omega particle debacle, or zero mention of t'urell anywhere

    video games aren't supposed to be consistent with any other media, or even other video games - the only thing they're supposed to consistent with is themselves​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    starkaos wrote: »
    STO has the Path to 2409 which covers every year since Nemesis. So if they pick 2399 to set the Picard series, then there needs to be a Klingon-Gorn War in the series and has to follow the previous events established by STO's timeline to have a connection to STO. Every event laid out in STO's timeline during the Picard series run will have to happen.


    It is far easier for the creators of any new Star Trek series to create their own content and STO creates its own content without worrying about the other party. The creators of the Picard series should be able to create the story they want without having their hands tied by STO.

    Yes, I know about the path to 2409 and no one's saying that their hands are tied. What STO can offer the new series most is a test bed of ideas that the writers can pull from as they see fit. I don't think they'll be obligated to respect STO's canon to the literal detail (such that they're writing the new show within the hard constraints of the Path to 2409), although CBS may reign in any crazy ideas that would completely invalidate this game (ex. collapsing the Federation). They do value STO (it's a profitable venture and good marketing) and they've been very keen on supporting Age of Discovery (which is likely to continue through the Picard series.)

    If some STO content needs to be revamped, so be it, but fortunately STO's mission path is very flexible (see. previous revamps) and we have been primed for minor changes in our own canon before (see. those revamps.) And, this would only be necessary for changes seen in the Picard series that couldn't be explained away in the ten year gap. For example: if the Gorn feature heavily and develop some political dealings, well apart from the Klingon empire, then that can still be integrated into the Klingon war arc with a few changes in date (condensing events to fit the new window. Same stuff happens, only with altered years. Blame Daniels.)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    > @starkaos said:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Because some fans believe that STO is part of the Prime Universe when it is strictly limited to only TV series and movies. STO and the novels are set in parallel universes and not part of the Prime Universe.

    You are confusing canon and prime timeline.

    The prime timeline is indeed the series of events we follow through watching the shows and movies. However STO does take place in the same timeline as it's build on these events. It is however not canon as everything IN STO doesn't affect anything but STO going forward.

    With the new Picard show (and DSC although they can work with that) STO will obviously not be able to incorporate those events. Then it could be considered it's own timeline. Or did you mean that? In that case sorry for not getting it xD

    I think it just confuses people if we start to claim every game and novel creates a new timeline. So far all those works are prime timeline but not canonical meaning they build upon the foundation canon and branch from there, their branch just never happens "really". The exception would be novels or games etc. specifically mentioning certain events have concluded differently from canon and go from there.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    artan42 wrote: »
    Does it take place in the timeline in which the U.S.S. Kelvin was not attacked by Nero? If yes then it's prime timeline. It doesn't really matter if it's a canonical work or not. Prime or Kelvin Timeline are in-universe terms or rather for in-universe events. It's like a dating system and even fictional (here read non-canonical) events can be placed in relation to other events.
    That's... not the question i was posing. The question is what dates events happened and in what order, which we don't have.

    And it wasn't in answer to you.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    > starkaos said:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Because some fans believe that STO is part of the Prime Universe when it is strictly limited to only TV series and movies. STO and the novels are set in parallel universes and not part of the Prime Universe.

    You are confusing canon and prime timeline.

    The prime timeline is indeed the series of events we follow through watching the shows and movies. However STO does take place in the same timeline as it's build on these events. It is however not canon as everything IN STO doesn't affect anything but STO going forward.

    With the new Picard show (and DSC although they can work with that) STO will obviously not be able to incorporate those events. Then it could be considered it's own timeline. Or did you mean that? In that case sorry for not getting it xD

    I think it just confuses people if we start to claim every game and novel creates a new timeline. So far all those works are prime timeline but not canonical meaning they build upon the foundation canon and branch from there, their branch just never happens "really". The exception would be novels or games etc. specifically mentioning certain events have concluded differently from canon and go from there.

    STO and a few novel series exist in this strange situation where it is part of the Prime Timeline until after Nemesis or Voyager in the case of the Shatnerverse novels and then it is not. My personal belief to avoid this strange situation is that they exist in parallel universes that are 99.99999% identical to the Prime Universe. The Parallels episode from TNG had a lot of Enterprise-Ds that were extremely similar to the Enterprise-D that we know, but with a few minor details like a Cardassian Starfleet Officer. So the Enterprise-Ds from the STO Universe and other universes depicted in video games and novels could have been a few of the other 285,000 Enterprise-Ds from that episode.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    > @starkaos said:
    >
    >
    > STO and a few novel series exist in this strange situation where it is part of the Prime Timeline until after Nemesis or Voyager in the case of the Shatnerverse novels and then it is not. My personal belief to avoid this strange situation is that they exist in parallel universes that are 99.99999% identical to the Prime Universe. The Parallels episode from TNG had a lot of Enterprise-Ds that were extremely similar to the Enterprise-D that we know, but with a few minor details like a Cardassian Starfleet Officer. So the Enterprise-Ds from the STO Universe and other universes depicted in video games and novels could have been a few of the other 285,000 Enterprise-Ds from that episode.

    I get that, but that's some advanced geekism (not meant condescending) not everyone can easily follow, which in turn causes especially new Treklets to believe that Trek is a huge, incomprehensible timey-wimey. In reality the rules are very simple though.

    Games and novels that dom't deliberately settle in a new timeline (as in "what if" scenarios of things we saw in canon) all are starting in the prime timeline since they require the common ground of canon for the audience to find a footing. Of course the story they tell didn't happen in the prime timeline, then one could say it is a new timeline of events. I personally prefer to say "prime" so I know where we are and "non-canon" to explain nothing of it is part of the common ground 'canon'. Otherwise you start saying "this is timeline 421" which enters Marvel territory of "Earth 6217" which makes it horribly intimidating tryimg to pick it up.

    That being said, I personally consider STO following AGT with minor alterations (as you said, it's one of those almost identical futures).
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I think it just confuses people if we start to claim every game and novel creates a new timeline. So far all those works are prime timeline but not canonical meaning they build upon the foundation canon and branch from there, their branch just never happens "really". The exception would be novels or games etc. specifically mentioning certain events have concluded differently from canon and go from there.

    CBS has apparently been treating DSC related tie-ins as part of a canonical extended universe. There was a mention on the post-AoD announcement Ten Forward Weekly (which I still need to go back to just to check reality didn't collapse on into itself) that AoD itself will be considered canon (and feature T'Kuvma's canonical sister from the comics, crossing these EU pieces.) They've been working closely with CBS including consulting writers (Al posted some pics from the writers room.)

    2409/2410 is almost certainly a grey area ATM (unless there are indeed plans between Cryptic and CBS) and the topic may be revised again when details regarding the Picard show aren't just unveiled but written in the first place (all they had at time of STLV was basically the one character.) But I highly, highly, highly doubt that STO is going to be walled off in its own separate timeline because neither CBS or Cryptic benefit from losing cross marketing. Either the show isn't going to be that big a departure from the reasonable projections made by 2409 and what deviations there are get comfortably absorbed by the ten year gap (with perhaps a few minor changes in game), or Cyptic is going to take any steps required to bring STO into prime timeline canon so they can not only reference one ongoing Star Trek series (a huge deal considering where the game started) but two.
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
    Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    Since this thread is not going to be locked anytime soon, I want to respond to @starswordc 's post.
    starswordc wrote: »
    Here's why it matters (and this reply goes for @redvenge's post, as well). Hollywood already has a well-established pattern of killing off or otherwise tormenting LGBTQ and brown characters in preference to straight white characters. So is it really too much to ask that freaking Star Trek of all IPs break the mold and leave them alone for once?
    Short answer: Yes. It is too much to ask.

    Those characters that were killed off (generally in the first act) were shallow stereotypes that were jokes, rather than fleshed out characters. The marketing thinking of that era was to make the majority of the cast "straight white" characters because that was the audience the movie was being made for. At that time in the US, that is the largest ethnic group with a large disposable income. Even today, the number of LGBT identifying individuals in the US is very small.

    The answer is to create characters that are more complex than their sexual preference, gender or skin color. As a result, these characters are going to be in the dangerous situations. They will face injury, failure and death. How they handle setbacks and failures is as important as how they handle success and triumph.

    The standards you are using to shield these characters no longer apply. We should be demanding better character development, not special treatment because a character kisses someone of the same gender.
    starswordc wrote: »
    What Mr. Sherred was objecting to, why he didn't consider it "special treatment", was that straight couples have more fictional models for a normal, happy couple than they can shake a stick at, and nonstandard couples want to be able to see themselves in fiction, too.
    It does not matter how many "straight white couples" have happy relationships. It is completely irrelevant. If you don't like stories with unhappy relationships (and there are stories with unhappy "straight white couples") then do not watch them.

    If you are asking for better LGBT characters in your stories, that is one thing. If you want shallow characters who always get a happy ending just to balance some weird perceived imbalance, that is blatantly asking for special treatment.
    starswordc wrote: »
    Note also that the time he wrote those reviews, it looked awfully like the show's straight couple was going to get a happily-ever-after (although that has since changed, what with Tyler getting sent off to be with the woman he perceives as his rapist for little more reason than because his body used to belong to a Klingon, and you can thank TNG through VOY for that lovely quasi-segregationist "stay with your kind!" message).

    TL;DR: is it too much to ask for Stamets and Culber to just be portrayed the way Keiko and Miles were on DS9, i.e. as a normal military family with normal military family problems (Stamets' mushroom weirdness notwithstanding)? Is there some writing rule I don't know about that everything has to be loaded down with "narrative tension"?
    You can certainly criticize how Culber and Tyler/Voq were handled.

    Culber's death was pointless. At first, Stamets was under suspicion for Culber's death, but that just went away. Then, Tyler/Voq was conflicted about killing Culber but that was not resolved (or went away). Now, they are just going to bring Culber back.

    I understand that murdering a character made the Voq/Tyler situation more tense and dramatic, but ultimately it had no payoff. Why did the writers murder Culber in the first place? It comes across as a shallow attempt to be "Game of Thrones", just like the swearing and the gratuitous sex scenes. Edgy, adult, and ultimately vapid.

    Tyler/Voq is equally pointless. His entire existence is a series of coincidences that results in nothing happening. What was he supposed to do once he snuck onboard the Discovery? How was his Voq personality supposed to surface if someone needed to whisper a code word to him? Why is his personality all messed up? Did the Klingons not run any checks before they released this agent? (Well, given what we have seen of TRIBBLE Klingons, it might be a bit much to ask for them to be competent in their use of technology. They did invent a ship that cloaks, then rams other ships just to be destroyed in a warp core explosion)
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    (...)
    Tyler/Voq is equally pointless. His entire existence is a series of coincidences that results in nothing happening. What was he supposed to do once he snuck onboard the Discovery? How was his Voq personality supposed to surface if someone needed to whisper a code word to him? Why is his personality all messed up? Did the Klingons not run any checks before they released this agent? (Well, given what we have seen of TRIBBLE Klingons, it might be a bit much to ask for them to be competent in their use of technology. They did invent a ship that cloaks, then rams other ships just to be destroyed in a warp core explosion)

    I like that their super special undercover implemented spy blows his cover the second he realizes who he really was and immediately gets overwhelmed shouting supremacist paroles. Brilliant.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    redvenge wrote: »
    (...)
    Tyler/Voq is equally pointless. His entire existence is a series of coincidences that results in nothing happening. What was he supposed to do once he snuck onboard the Discovery? How was his Voq personality supposed to surface if someone needed to whisper a code word to him? Why is his personality all messed up? Did the Klingons not run any checks before they released this agent? (Well, given what we have seen of TRIBBLE Klingons, it might be a bit much to ask for them to be competent in their use of technology. They did invent a ship that cloaks, then rams other ships just to be destroyed in a warp core explosion)

    I like that their super special undercover implemented spy blows his cover the second he realizes who he really was and immediately gets overwhelmed shouting supremacist paroles. Brilliant.​​

    it's because "Kleengawns R Stoopid", which is basically all you really need to take from their characterization in ST:D. They're stupid, and their entire empire is the result of luck.



    It would be interesting to see what would make a better Empire, the ruling race is extremely intelligent and little to no luck or extremely lucky and little to no intelligence.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    Interesting how you all assume that overlaying a new personality - an alien personality, at that - is supposed to be a mature technology that can only go wrong if the ones doing it are stupid.

    Personally, I was assuming it was a new technique that this House of "tricksters" was experimenting with. Early results were promising, and the war wasn't going that well for them at that point, so it was worth a shot. However, as often happens with the first large-scale deployment of a new technology, things didn't work out exactly as planned. That's not "stupid", that's just bad luck. It happens. (And they did a better job with their next version of the technique, used on Arne Darvin, who managed to successfully infiltrate Federation bureaucracy and nearly foiled the Fed's long-term plans for an entire sector of the Neutral Zone before running across a creature that shouldn't have been anywhere near Deep Space K-7.)
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Interesting how you all assume that overlaying a new personality - an alien personality, at that - is supposed to be a mature technology that can only go wrong if the ones doing it are stupid.

    Personally, I was assuming it was a new technique that this House of "tricksters" was experimenting with. Early results were promising, and the war wasn't going that well for them at that point, so it was worth a shot. However, as often happens with the first large-scale deployment of a new technology, things didn't work out exactly as planned. That's not "stupid", that's just bad luck. It happens. (And they did a better job with their next version of the technique, used on Arne Darvin, who managed to successfully infiltrate Federation bureaucracy and nearly foiled the Fed's long-term plans for an entire sector of the Neutral Zone before running across a creature that shouldn't have been anywhere near Deep Space K-7.)

    I always assumed it was the precursor technology used on Arne Darvin. Although, it sounds like they only bothered with the body modifications in the case of Arne Darvin since splicing two personalities together usually doesn't works well. Having a Klingon personality in a human body is far more easy to control than a Human and Klingon personality in a Human body.
    Although, it seemed to work well enough in Tuvix's case even if Janeway killed him.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Tuvix is different because the two personalities fused fully and weren't fully hostile. This process took two people who hated each other and didn't fully fuse them.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    They placed enough of an overlay on Darvin that he could successfully walk right by all the various telepathic species in the Federation. If they'd done something like that with Voq, rather than trying a complete secondary personality, it might have succeeded. (Or it might not - there's no way of knowing at this point...)
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    a simple medical scan uncovered him, though​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    a simple medical scan uncovered him, though​​

    Yes, maybe they did adjust the technology. Or Starfleet adjusted its medical tricorders to be able to identify future Tylers.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    > @shadowfang240 said:
    > a simple medical scan uncovered him, though​​

    It seems to be common within Starfleet to have no squealin' idea about anyone's biology, the chief medical officer didn't know anything about Vulcans because they "don't talk about it" - probably not even to each other xD

    So there are probably no check-ups either, or if there are people somehow manage to evade them for years when every person working in a kitchen would be suspended if they did that. Starfleet has more lax health requirements than Burger Queen.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    king...burger king...the only queen we have in fast food is dairy queen​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited September 2018
    Queens can be burgers too! #fastfoodfeminism
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Queens can be burgers too! #fastfoodfeminism

    That's a very cruel thing to do to a person.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,659 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Queens can be burgers too! #fastfoodfeminism

    That's a very cruel thing to do to a person.​​

    Oh, I know.....fast food ~shudder~ Nasty stuff.
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
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