Mm... Starfleet exploring in person? perhaps not, but collecting records from multiple races and so on and so forth? Perhaps.
Also why would it be one solar system a day? Basic mapping and cataloging can be done with long range sensors, thus allowing ONE ship to catalog dozens in a day. Also It's called Starfleet so yeah, there's kind of a lot of them.
plus, probes - they can build thousands of those and send them off to an equal number of systems
that's what the empire did to chart safe hyperspace routes through the deep core in legends - sent thousands of probe droids into the core as a brute-force method of lane-mapping
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
This is not the problem some people make it out to be, and is an artifact of the silly idea that the galaxy is somehow played out. It's not, and it cannot be in any reasonable time frame. The problem is that the writers and some of the audience seem to forget just how mind-bogglingly huge space truly is.
It's not about the galaxy. It's plenty big still. The issue is the format.
Star Trek: The Next Generation ran for 7 years. Star Trek: Voyager another 7. That is 14 years of "exploration and diplomacy" stories. Right now, the biggest detractors of the Orville state that it is just a "rehash of TNG".
Is that what you want? The same stories told the same way, just with different actors and actresses? That's fine, but it's not self-sustaining. Audiences will see that your show is an echo of TNG or VOY. It will be compared, unfavorably.
You have to provide more than "lets go putt around the galaxy", because that is what happened for 14 years.
Hell, you don't even need to actually visit a lot of systems. You see, we've got these things called telescopes that can see other star systems from a long distance away (light lag notwithstanding). So you can readily narrow down those 100 billion stars to just those stars that might have "new life and new civilizations" around them: our current search for extrasolar planets has shown that planets are common, but planets approaching Earth's mass (ergo gravity) - never mind atmospheric composition and presence of liquid surface water - are pretty rare.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Q: Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you had never considered. That is the exploration that awaits you. Not mapping stars and studying nebulae, but charting the unknowable possibilities of existence.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
And why not more exploration stories? It is what Star Trek is all about, after all. Clearly people do want more of it.
Why did TNG end after 7 years? Or VOY? Why did ENT get cancelled?
The question is "is there a large enough audience who want the same story told over and over again, to keep a series going"? If Orville gets a third season, then maybe you are right.
What's wrong with that? Nobody seems to say we have had too many war stories, or adventure stories, or love stories, so why is a mere 14 television series of exploration stories enough? At least with exploration you can have new settings and characters and situations and cultures to encounter. With an endless frontier out there, there's no limit to what we can discover and what we might find out there.
An endless frontier... telling the same stories. Something wrong here.
Anyone can imagine a make-believe place. It takes talent to craft entertaining stories in a make-believe place. Or we can keep telling the same stories over and over.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
but ENT is a redundant dumpsterfire of terrible stories.
How is it redundant? There's no other material covering the foundation of the Federation so it's doing something new. Yes it suffers from the same problems of VGR, namly that Berman and Bragga were unable to write anything that was even slightly decent except by accident.
In fact, TRIBBLE makes the Star Trek universe SMALLER since "everything that has been, or ever will be, is all interconnected". Burnham is Spock's sister and the crew of the Discovery has to help the crew of the Enterprise fix a problem. Discovery even has Captain Pike take charge of the ship. Prior to TOS, there seems to be 4 captains in all of Starfleet.
Except those things you mention are not the focus of the story. The focus of series 1 is the Federation Klingon war. All connecting with TOS does is flesh out both series into an actual world where real people are connected and don't just move int their own spheres. It does not make it smaller, it gives it far more dimensions and depth.
The writers of Superman face a similar dilemma. The Federation would be much easier: you present problems that cannot be fixed through direct intervention without compromising the morals and ethics of the United Federation of Planets.
They did. It was called the Dominion War. They then followed that up with VGR. If the writers are too lazy to allow for conflict then the scenario will be resolved through third options.
I'm sure anyone could come up with something equally effective. Here is an opportunity to explore different Star Trek cultures, provide opportunity for inter-character conflict (which could be ideological or physical), and the framework to explore/examine doctrinal or personal flaws.
VGR presented us with a single Federation ship with a half sized crew and a brigs worth of terrorists onboard stranded in a unexplored hostile territory decades away from home with replicators you needed credits for and a countable number of torpedoes. How exactly will the crew balance the fine line between upholding Starfleet and Federation morals with the desperate need to get home? How do they relate to the Marquis? Avoid the Borg?
Answer: By hack writers cloning TNG and forgetting that any of that existed in the first place.
Star Trek does not lack for situations to do something with. At least by doing series in the TOS era and before the writers can constrain themselves somewhat by what should be possible.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Bergenholm drive. Ah, the Lensman series, I remember it well. Could never figure out why it wasn't adapted to movies or a PC game created covering it.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Hell, you don't even need to actually visit a lot of systems. You see, we've got these things called telescopes that can see other star systems from a long distance away (light lag notwithstanding). So you can readily narrow down those 100 billion stars to just those stars that might have "new life and new civilizations" around them: our current search for extrasolar planets has shown that planets are common, but planets approaching Earth's mass (ergo gravity) - never mind atmospheric composition and presence of liquid surface water - are pretty rare.
The writers were wrong. There's no way possible that the Federation could explore that much in only 200 years. Remember what I said about 100 billion stars, 25 billion per quadrant, and how at one star system per day it would take 68.5 million years to get to them all? You tell me how much of a percentage 200 is of 68.5 million. Those numbers tell a very different story than the writers had a clue of. Space is far, far bigger than they imagined.
No, you're just falling into your own strawman. The goal of Trek was never 'to get to them all', but to explore new life and civilizations. You can explore the Galaxy just fine from behind your telescope, for the most part. The Drake Equation (whilst leaving a rather sizeable margin of error) clearly shows there isn't life on all of your 100 billion stars. It's about having chartered the galaxy for ca. 20% -- which is something that sounds plausible enough.
VGR presented us with a single Federation ship with a half sized crew and a brigs worth of terrorists onboard stranded in a unexplored hostile territory decades away from home with replicators you needed credits for and a countable number of torpedoes. How exactly will the crew balance the fine line between upholding Starfleet and Federation morals with the desperate need to get home? How do they relate to the Marquis? Avoid the Borg?
Answer: By hack writers cloning TNG and forgetting that any of that existed in the first place.
Star Trek does not lack for situations to do something with. At least by doing series in the TOS era and before the writers can constrain themselves somewhat by what should be possible.
Now come on Artan, you're making FAR too much sense here!
Previous incarnations of Trek need be viewed through rose-tinted spectacles. Points such as the Starfleet - Maquis crew aboard Voyager almost immediately being best friends are points are to be overlooked.
To be honest, the fact that TNG is held in such high regard actually annoys me these days. And you know what - since DSC haters are allowed to be so vocal with their opinions, I'm going to do the same for once. Fans can place TNG on some undeserved pedestal all they like, but It was FAR from perfect, even when it was new.
TNG was actually damned AWFUL at times. I find season 1 all but unwatchable, and season 2 isn't a great deal better. The stories were often flat. They often followed the same format, the acting was questionable (excluding Patrick Stewart), too many of stories relied on DEM solutions to problems, particuarly from Robot the Sidekick. Yes there were plenty of great, standout, episodes but it produced a fair number of stinkers too.
And I'm sorry, but it has aged pretty badly in my opinion.
Beyond the first two series (which I watched when the remastered series first came out on Sci-Fi in England) I've not really seen much of TNG beyond watching specific arcs and episodes I like the sound of. In fact it's the only series I've not seen fully.
From what I have seen it looks okay, I guess. It mostly managed to be slightly better than TOS (the acting was vastly superior even if it was poor compared to DS9 and even VGR) but even the best episodes of TNG I've seen didn't come close to what the best of DS9 and ENT did (even with those series own flaws).
I do wonder if it's because I didn't really grow up on any Star Trek and only made a deliberate effort to watch it leading up to 09. I mustn't have my rose tinted brain properly calibrated.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
How is it redundant? There's no other material covering the foundation of the Federation so it's doing something new. Yes it suffers from the same problems of VGR, namly that Berman and Bragga were unable to write anything that was even slightly decent except by accident.
It's redundant because we know how it ends. The time travel nonsense was silly, because we saw the future and we knew there was no threat.
TRIBBLE spent so little time on the "Klingon War" that there was no sense of threat. So, they parked a fleet of Klingons over Earth. No one took this seriously, because Earth is a-ok in the future. It was just cringy, lazy writing.
It's not redundant and series 4 is far superior to anything VGR put out and vastly better than the first few series of TNG and DS9.
The time travel stuff was terrible, as is most of the time travel stories in Trek. The Vulcan strife was facepalm enducing (they "forgot" the teachings of Surak? Really?). If you like one or two episodes from the fourth season, fine. Most of it's writing is bad and the premise is redundant.
Could be. I dunno what 'TRIBBLE' is. I suspect you're being edgely dyslexic and meant to spell it DSC which is correct.
TRIBBLE is short for Star Trek: Discovery. Showrunner Brian Fuller coined it when he was first putting the show together. It is the oldest acronym for Star Trek: Discovery.
Except those things you mention are not the focus of the story. The focus of series 1 is the Federation Klingon war. All connecting with TOS does is flesh out both series into an actual world where real people are connected and don't just move int their own spheres. It does not make it smaller, it gives it far more dimensions and depth.
No, the focus of the first season is the spore drive. The pilot introduced the Klingon War, but the majority of the show revolved around the spore drive.
It makes the universe SMALLER because the main character is Spock's sister and the new captain is Pike. Was Picard the great-grandson of Kirk? Was Sisko the lost half-brother of Chekov? Did Janeway get ballet lessons from Councilor Troy? The more connections you make to existing characters, the smaller your universe gets. Captain Pike and Spock are fanservice and they diminish TRIBBLE because of it. The Discovery has a unique drive and it's own, unique crew. It does not need Spock or Pike or Sarek. They need to tell their own stories and, by doing so, make the universe bigger.
They did. It was called the Dominion War. They then followed that up with VGR. If the writers are too lazy to allow for conflict then the scenario will be resolved through third options.
The Dominion War was all about direct intervention. My point was that direct intervention was NOT possible. In fact, the Dominion War was just another instance of the writers declaring that Starfleet only had morals or ethics when it suited them. The Dominion War was garbage.
Star Trek does not lack for situations to do something with. At least by doing series in the TOS era and before the writers can constrain themselves somewhat by what should be possible.
"Should be possible"? What does that mean? Does it mean "create a new and never again mentioned form of propulsion that can travel UNLIMITED DISTANCE across MULTIPLE UNIVERSES"?
When it comes to a prequel, we KNOW what is going to happen. Exposition dumps of lore (that are only mentioned BEFORE the events we know about) are lazy. The best we could hope for, is a character driven story. The characters become MORE important in a prequel, because the story is not important. We KNOW how the story ends.
I was not impressed with the characters in ENT or TRIBBLE. So far, TRIBBLE comes out behind ENT because it has fewer episodes and it spent little time on character development.
Now come on Artan, you're making FAR too much sense here!
Previous incarnations of Trek need be viewed through rose-tinted spectacles. Points such as the Starfleet - Maquis crew aboard Voyager almost immediately being best friends are points are to be overlooked.
What are you talking about? @artan42 did not even address my point; that writing for the United Federation of Planets is very similar to writing for Superman. Both are extremely powerful, upstanding paragons of good. You present them with issues that cannot be solved with direct intervention or use of force (usually because of moral or ethical reasons). The issue is then solved by outsmarting the challenge rather than murdering everyone.
Far too often, Superman or Starfleet must murder everyone people because "gritty realism" or some nonsense. More trash writing that tries to be "subversive" when in reality it's just an excuse for an action scene.
If you have issues with particular episodes of TNG or VOY, so be it. There is plenty to criticize, but let's not pretend telling stories post-Nemesis is impossible. That is going to DOOM Trek to prequel mediocrity and lead to actual reboots of the universe (because there is no where else to go).
The time travel nonsense was silly, because we saw the future and we knew there was no threat.
If you think drama only comes from suspense then there's no point reasoning with you. Sometimes the story is simply about what's along the way not the ending.
TRIBBLE spent so little time on the "Klingon War" that there was no sense of threat. So, they parked a fleet of Klingons over Earth. No one took this seriously, because Earth is a-ok in the future. It was just cringy, lazy writing.
No sense of threat? Did you listen to Cornwall? The Klingons occupy a third of Federation territory. And, yes we know Earth is fine later on but why does that diminish the threat now? The Xindi wiped out California who's to say the Klingons wouldn't have taken out all of Australia? Or the Moon?
Cringy lazy criticism.
The time travel stuff was terrible, as is most of the time travel stories in Trek. The Vulcan strife was facepalm enducing (they "forgot" the teachings of Surak? Really?). If you like one or two episodes from the fourth season, fine. Most of it's writing is bad and the premise is redundant.
The time travel stuff was fantastic. Any time travel episode is off to a good start and ENT had a good thing going with the Temporal Cold War. And the Vulcan stuff was the downpoint of the series because Vulcans are the most uninteresting part of Star Trek. But most of the writing is good and the premise is fresh and new.
TRIBBLE is short for Star Trek: Discovery. Showrunner Brian Fuller coined it when he was first putting the show together. It is the oldest acronym for Star Trek: Discovery.
No he didn't. It's coined by edgy fanbois who miss the colon out and can't spell DSC (which is the official acronym).
No, the focus of the first season is the spore drive. The pilot introduced the Klingon War, but the majority of the show revolved around the spore drive.
No. The focus is the Klingon war. The Spor Drive is just a plot device to assist the main thread.
It makes the universe SMALLER because the main character is Spock's sister and the new captain is Pike. Was Picard the great-grandson of Kirk? Was Sisko the lost half-brother of Chekov? Did Janeway get ballet lessons from Councilor Troy? The more connections you make to existing characters, the smaller your universe gets. Captain Pike and Spock are fanservice and they diminish TRIBBLE because of it. The Discovery has a unique drive and it's own, unique crew. It does not need Spock or Pike or Sarek. They need to tell their own stories and, by doing so, make the universe bigger.
Adding more dimensions automatically makes things bigger not smaller. And DSC has managed to fit less references to TOS in their first series than TNG ever did.
The Dominion War was all about direct intervention. My point was that direct intervention was NOT possible. In fact, the Dominion War was just another instance of the writers declaring that Starfleet only had morals or ethics when it suited them. The Dominion War was garbage.
"Should be possible"? What does that mean? Does it mean "create a new and never again mentioned form of propulsion that can travel UNLIMITED DISTANCE across MULTIPLE UNIVERSES"?
Do they find a reason it won't be used again? Yes. Ergo your point is invalid.
When it comes to a prequel, we KNOW what is going to happen. Exposition dumps of lore (that are only mentioned BEFORE the events we know about) are lazy. The best we could hope for, is a character driven story. The characters become MORE important in a prequel, because the story is not important. We KNOW how the story ends.
Again, so!? What's knowing the ending change about the journey?
I was not impressed with the characters in ENT or TRIBBLE. So far, TRIBBLE comes out behind ENT because it has fewer episodes and it spent little time on character development.
Sigh. It's on series 1. TOS got through three series of live action, two animated and 6 films with only three characters. TNG took until about series 5 before they made an impact I could see.
What are you talking about? @artan42 did not even address my point;
I addressed all of them. That's what the wall of quotes does. It covers everything.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
One thing that people completely forget these days because it's so integral to the understanding of TNG and Star Trek: TNG gave the hero ship the name Enterprise. Which is exactly the same name as the one a century before.
So you're telling me that the ship that is having the most exciting space adventures and has the most important contributions to the human space exploration is always called Enterprise?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
'Space is big. Really big. You just won’t believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly big it is. I mean you may think it’s a long way down the road to the chemist’s, but that’s just peanuts to space.'
Check out 'The Corbomite Manuever' and 'The Doomsday Machine' for charting.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
For all we know, the powers we know aren't even major, and are dwarfed by larger empires we aren't aware of yet.
If this was the case, and these larger powers were withing any sort of reachable distance to the Federation, then the likelihood that the Federation hadn't encountered them in 200 years of space exploration is basically nil.
This also doesn't take into consideration the fact that, according to DS9's writers, the Dominion knew of the Federation before the wormhole opened, and had sent the 100 changelings out to basically collect information on them, so they could devise a plan to eliminate them when they were projected to enter Dominion space in 200 years. The Dominion is so far reaching that they knew of galactic powers over 70,000 light years away, and considered the Federation the biggest threat.
There are also comments made in TNG that the Federation has explored 20% of the galaxy, which is largely substantiated by what we see in TOS, TNG, and DS9, with them reaching planets like Sigma Iota out on the galactic rim, and also reaching the galactic core in both TAS and ST:V, and Mirror Bashir saying that the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance has conquered the whole Alpha Quadrant(which would be 25% of the galaxy)
Not even getting into the number of 20% was given before Voyager spent 7 years plowing through the Delta quadrant, and before the Bajoran Wormhole opened, allowing people and easier means to explore the Gamma Quadrant, which they did for years. The number is probably closer to 33% explored at this point/
Such numbers are also supported by Star Charts seen in the shows, such as the one below where one can even make out where the quadrant divisions would be
GR had stated that in the TOS timeframe 04% of the Galaxy had been explored by the Fedration. By TNG's time it was up to 11%. That leaves 89% to go.
And no, to think that ALL the major star Empires or alliances would be 'known' or have had contact with the Federation by the time of the TNG era is ludicrous.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I would use mine to better upgrade faction parity. Upgrade the staff at Cryptic to be able to handle multiple factions with their own stories and paths from beginning to current. Rather than this "faction agnostic" dross.
Comments
Also why would it be one solar system a day? Basic mapping and cataloging can be done with long range sensors, thus allowing ONE ship to catalog dozens in a day. Also It's called Starfleet so yeah, there's kind of a lot of them.
My character Tsin'xing
that's what the empire did to chart safe hyperspace routes through the deep core in legends - sent thousands of probe droids into the core as a brute-force method of lane-mapping
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Star Trek: The Next Generation ran for 7 years. Star Trek: Voyager another 7. That is 14 years of "exploration and diplomacy" stories. Right now, the biggest detractors of the Orville state that it is just a "rehash of TNG".
Is that what you want? The same stories told the same way, just with different actors and actresses? That's fine, but it's not self-sustaining. Audiences will see that your show is an echo of TNG or VOY. It will be compared, unfavorably.
You have to provide more than "lets go putt around the galaxy", because that is what happened for 14 years.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
we need more of that kind of exploration
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The question is "is there a large enough audience who want the same story told over and over again, to keep a series going"? If Orville gets a third season, then maybe you are right.
An endless frontier... telling the same stories. Something wrong here.
Anyone can imagine a make-believe place. It takes talent to craft entertaining stories in a make-believe place. Or we can keep telling the same stories over and over.
something like the yuuzhan vong from star wars
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The Kelvin Timeline. The series of (currently) three TOS era films set in the titular Kelvin Timeline.
How is it redundant? There's no other material covering the foundation of the Federation so it's doing something new. Yes it suffers from the same problems of VGR, namly that Berman and Bragga were unable to write anything that was even slightly decent except by accident.
It's not redundant and series 4 is far superior to anything VGR put out and vastly better than the first few series of TNG and DS9.
Could be. I dunno what 'TRIBBLE' is. I suspect you're being edgely dyslexic and meant to spell it DSC which is correct.
Except those things you mention are not the focus of the story. The focus of series 1 is the Federation Klingon war. All connecting with TOS does is flesh out both series into an actual world where real people are connected and don't just move int their own spheres. It does not make it smaller, it gives it far more dimensions and depth.
They did. It was called the Dominion War. They then followed that up with VGR. If the writers are too lazy to allow for conflict then the scenario will be resolved through third options.
VGR presented us with a single Federation ship with a half sized crew and a brigs worth of terrorists onboard stranded in a unexplored hostile territory decades away from home with replicators you needed credits for and a countable number of torpedoes. How exactly will the crew balance the fine line between upholding Starfleet and Federation morals with the desperate need to get home? How do they relate to the Marquis? Avoid the Borg?
Answer: By hack writers cloning TNG and forgetting that any of that existed in the first place.
Star Trek does not lack for situations to do something with. At least by doing series in the TOS era and before the writers can constrain themselves somewhat by what should be possible.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
And their telescopes are nothing like ours today.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Argus_Array
No, you're just falling into your own strawman. The goal of Trek was never 'to get to them all', but to explore new life and civilizations. You can explore the Galaxy just fine from behind your telescope, for the most part. The Drake Equation (whilst leaving a rather sizeable margin of error) clearly shows there isn't life on all of your 100 billion stars. It's about having chartered the galaxy for ca. 20% -- which is something that sounds plausible enough.
Beyond the first two series (which I watched when the remastered series first came out on Sci-Fi in England) I've not really seen much of TNG beyond watching specific arcs and episodes I like the sound of. In fact it's the only series I've not seen fully.
From what I have seen it looks okay, I guess. It mostly managed to be slightly better than TOS (the acting was vastly superior even if it was poor compared to DS9 and even VGR) but even the best episodes of TNG I've seen didn't come close to what the best of DS9 and ENT did (even with those series own flaws).
I do wonder if it's because I didn't really grow up on any Star Trek and only made a deliberate effort to watch it leading up to 09. I mustn't have my rose tinted brain properly calibrated.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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It's redundant because we know how it ends. The time travel nonsense was silly, because we saw the future and we knew there was no threat.
TRIBBLE spent so little time on the "Klingon War" that there was no sense of threat. So, they parked a fleet of Klingons over Earth. No one took this seriously, because Earth is a-ok in the future. It was just cringy, lazy writing.
The time travel stuff was terrible, as is most of the time travel stories in Trek. The Vulcan strife was facepalm enducing (they "forgot" the teachings of Surak? Really?). If you like one or two episodes from the fourth season, fine. Most of it's writing is bad and the premise is redundant.
TRIBBLE is short for Star Trek: Discovery. Showrunner Brian Fuller coined it when he was first putting the show together. It is the oldest acronym for Star Trek: Discovery.
No, the focus of the first season is the spore drive. The pilot introduced the Klingon War, but the majority of the show revolved around the spore drive.
It makes the universe SMALLER because the main character is Spock's sister and the new captain is Pike. Was Picard the great-grandson of Kirk? Was Sisko the lost half-brother of Chekov? Did Janeway get ballet lessons from Councilor Troy? The more connections you make to existing characters, the smaller your universe gets. Captain Pike and Spock are fanservice and they diminish TRIBBLE because of it. The Discovery has a unique drive and it's own, unique crew. It does not need Spock or Pike or Sarek. They need to tell their own stories and, by doing so, make the universe bigger.
The Dominion War was all about direct intervention. My point was that direct intervention was NOT possible. In fact, the Dominion War was just another instance of the writers declaring that Starfleet only had morals or ethics when it suited them. The Dominion War was garbage.
"Should be possible"? What does that mean? Does it mean "create a new and never again mentioned form of propulsion that can travel UNLIMITED DISTANCE across MULTIPLE UNIVERSES"?
When it comes to a prequel, we KNOW what is going to happen. Exposition dumps of lore (that are only mentioned BEFORE the events we know about) are lazy. The best we could hope for, is a character driven story. The characters become MORE important in a prequel, because the story is not important. We KNOW how the story ends.
I was not impressed with the characters in ENT or TRIBBLE. So far, TRIBBLE comes out behind ENT because it has fewer episodes and it spent little time on character development. What are you talking about? @artan42 did not even address my point; that writing for the United Federation of Planets is very similar to writing for Superman. Both are extremely powerful, upstanding paragons of good. You present them with issues that cannot be solved with direct intervention or use of force (usually because of moral or ethical reasons). The issue is then solved by outsmarting the challenge rather than murdering everyone.
Far too often, Superman or Starfleet must murder everyone people because "gritty realism" or some nonsense. More trash writing that tries to be "subversive" when in reality it's just an excuse for an action scene.
If you have issues with particular episodes of TNG or VOY, so be it. There is plenty to criticize, but let's not pretend telling stories post-Nemesis is impossible. That is going to DOOM Trek to prequel mediocrity and lead to actual reboots of the universe (because there is no where else to go).
Paramount not Bad Robot. The 'the' is abbreviated for the same reason it is in TNG and TOS.
No we don't. We know there's a Federation at some point but that's it. We don't know any details at all.
If you think drama only comes from suspense then there's no point reasoning with you. Sometimes the story is simply about what's along the way not the ending.
No sense of threat? Did you listen to Cornwall? The Klingons occupy a third of Federation territory. And, yes we know Earth is fine later on but why does that diminish the threat now? The Xindi wiped out California who's to say the Klingons wouldn't have taken out all of Australia? Or the Moon?
Cringy lazy criticism.
The time travel stuff was fantastic. Any time travel episode is off to a good start and ENT had a good thing going with the Temporal Cold War. And the Vulcan stuff was the downpoint of the series because Vulcans are the most uninteresting part of Star Trek. But most of the writing is good and the premise is fresh and new.
No he didn't. It's coined by edgy fanbois who miss the colon out and can't spell DSC (which is the official acronym).
No. The focus is the Klingon war. The Spor Drive is just a plot device to assist the main thread.
Adding more dimensions automatically makes things bigger not smaller. And DSC has managed to fit less references to TOS in their first series than TNG ever did.
Then you're missing the point.
Do they find a reason it won't be used again? Yes. Ergo your point is invalid.
Again, so!? What's knowing the ending change about the journey?
Sigh. It's on series 1. TOS got through three series of live action, two animated and 6 films with only three characters. TNG took until about series 5 before they made an impact I could see.
I addressed all of them. That's what the wall of quotes does. It covers everything.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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So you're telling me that the ship that is having the most exciting space adventures and has the most important contributions to the human space exploration is always called Enterprise?
Check out 'The Corbomite Manuever' and 'The Doomsday Machine' for charting.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
GR had stated that in the TOS timeframe 04% of the Galaxy had been explored by the Fedration. By TNG's time it was up to 11%. That leaves 89% to go.
And no, to think that ALL the major star Empires or alliances would be 'known' or have had contact with the Federation by the time of the TNG era is ludicrous.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."