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Serious post, Serious frustrations

jeanlucpicantejeanlucpicante Member Posts: 9 Arc User
First I'd like to say I'm not a forum person, the fact that I bothered to seek out the forum and come here and make this thread speaks to the level of love/hate frustration I'm having with this game, if your only hope is to counter-signal me with ridicule, please do not bother to post to begin with. Thanks.

I really like Star Trek and science fiction in general, and have attempted to get into this game several times. Our family likes doing the free annual Summer and Winter events, when I come back, I find that there's always something new hidden behind an artificial wall. A wall that has nothing to do with your subscription status, or what you bought, but merely for the fact that you were not here at a certain time.

Now this is normal for a lot of games, especially when it comes to COSMETIC ITEMS, such as LOTRO and limited time mounts and costumes. When you see evidence of an artificial wall everywhere, such as the research slots requiring an unattainable character in order to unlock, it's frustrating to the point that it just turns me off from the game. I have no doubt this is in fact hurting, and not helping, the metrics of the game. It just shuts new players down. "Oh, there was a jemmie event yesterday, but now there's not... oh.. you could've made a delta recruit before then, but now you can't." ... okay...

So it's just really discouraging to the point that it shuts me down and I end up only coming here during the summer events and winter events, every time I come back, there's further evidence that I cannot take the game mechanics seriously.

I would strongly encourage the devs/pub to make time limited events mostly cosmetic, I understand the ships are a big draw, ... but why would I make a Jem'Hadar character at all, devs? Why would I use your NEW CHAPTER at all, knowing that it's a hollow shell? I mean seriously, look at it from the perspective of a new player, what would be the point of that? So I come here rarely, and YEARS have proven this model makes it impossible to make this MMO a regular part of my life. The only other thread I have made here, from 2016, shows this as well:

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1210322/so-i-see-theyre-continuing-to-go-the-opposite-direction-regarding-exclusivity-with-the-patch/p1

So yeah that was from Jan 2016, and really... the divide is much bigger now, with three special character types that cannot be obtained with money, with a LTS, with anything. The game seems riddled with little unlocks you cannot access unless you have these characters, but I wouldn't know the real extent, since I can never hang with the game long enough.

So I guess I'll get the free ship, which I will never use, and I will go away until winter, when I will get a ship, that I will never use... Remember your metrics, devs/pub, when you see the huge volume of people that play this way, well this is one of them, and I'm telling you what my problem with your game is. I would pay a monthly fee to access those character types, or, just knowing i COULD, I would at least be able to take the game seriously and know that I could buy that privilege if I wanted to.

Thanks for your time, and please refer to the old thread. Might see some of you on Risa, if not... Winter Wonderland, lol.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • bcwhguderian1941bcwhguderian1941 Member Posts: 804 Arc User
    OP, I think your right, to an extent. That extent being what it is you wish from the overall game. For myself, I simply focus
    on the elements which bring me joy. I ignore the rest. From a "Trek Fan" point of view, I find a great deal to do in game that
    allows me to be a Starship Commander in a load of different environments. This is what keeps me playing (5 years now).

    I regret the fact that the bulk of what your in STO for is locked away from you. But I would look close to see if that is really
    the case before you write the game off.

    Hopefully you can find elements that keep you playing. Good luck. :)

    BCW
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    They do rerun the Recruit events, but if you don't play the game you'll just miss the reruns, too.

    Serious question: Why do you care about getting items you won't use for a game you don't play?
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    How long was the recruitment event active, 6 weeks?

    If cryptic makes use of mechanic that encourages you to log only for once in this entire time frame to unlock a bonus I don’t see how this could be wrong.

    Moreover it’s also not as if one could not play the game without the bonuses of the past recruitment events.
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  • jeanlucpicantejeanlucpicante Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    OP, I think your right, to an extent. That extent being what it is you wish from the overall game. For myself, I simply focus
    on the elements which bring me joy. I ignore the rest. From a "Trek Fan" point of view, I find a great deal to do in game that
    allows me to be a Starship Commander in a load of different environments. This is what keeps me playing (5 years now).

    I regret the fact that the bulk of what your in STO for is locked away from you. But I would look close to see if that is really
    the case before you write the game off.

    Hopefully you can find elements that keep you playing. Good luck. :)

    BCW

    Thanks, yeah I considered trying to get into it from an RP angle, but the teamspeak group i'm with, when they play this particular game it's all about running elite stfs and messing with the mechanics and maximizing things,

    warpangel wrote: »
    They do rerun the Recruit events, but if you don't play the game you'll just miss the reruns, too.

    Serious question: Why do you care about getting items you won't use for a game you don't play?

    It's a catch-22, I really want to get into the game and try, every once in awhile, but every time I come back it's just a pool of disappointment. For example even though I had JUST missed the jemmie/delta events, I figured at least I had the AOY to get into, because I had made one of those recruits during that event (a friend told me about it) and I had run several missions in AOY but apparently(?) I did not run enough missions to actually unlock the Temporal Transponder, so even that character is just an ordinary character in STO garb... I wanted to get into the mechanics of the game and be able to tinker with stuff etc, knowing my character is so much weaker than it could be for the mere accident of not living on cryptic's schedule, which cannot be rectified by subscribing, or LTS, or direct payment, is very deflating and that coupled with wanting to play the game and get into it creates a paralyzing relationship with the game where I never can move forward. So I come here for the event ships, and to play in the gingerbread village with my kid at Christmas, but it's really a bummer that I never can manage to move forward. Maybe one of these days I'll actually catch one of these long running events, but really, it's been years at this point, no idea... Meanwhile a guy on teamspeak asks me to play EVE Online, I install it, and that's where my time is currently going to. There's always another game...

    I'm also hearing that the planned TRIBBLE recruit will be a very lightweight version of the others, so that will be a real bummer too, assuming I even make it there. Added to that, TRIBBLE is my least favorite Trek (would probably even put it behind JJ to be honest..)

    Bottom line TL;DR for devs/pubs: functional game mechanics and even accountwide perks useful for combat etc, are hidden behind absolutely inaccessible walls, so the mechanics are incomplete for those of us that want to tinker around with them but can't, whole chapters of the game are married to special recruits that cannot be made so those chapters are also useless until you can make the character they were actually intended for. Really bums me out and I don't understand why devs/pub don't want to make money off of them, or at least expand the LTS perks to include accessing one type of recruit per year, give me something ya know? We can't all have cryptic/perfect world alarm clocks.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,191 Arc User
    Serious Sam?
  • captainwellscaptainwells Member Posts: 718 Arc User
    While I can empathize with some of the OP's frustrations, I feel as if some of that tends more towards a slanted perspective. Star Trek Online can be played without every single bell and whistle that has ever been available. As a business, Cryptic has a vested interest in continually adding enticements to encourage ongoing participation, and they also seem to consider customer feedback (ergo the existence of the forum, the OP mentions, that devs frequently post in themselves).

    As a console player, I'm appreciative of all that has been brought here after the fact such as the recent inclusion of the Delta Recruitment event; which predated consoles. I also see no reason to even do the Winter/Summer event grinds for ships that the op even said have no genuine desire for? I've done them, but not always. It's all a choice!
  • ikonn#1068 ikonn Member Posts: 1,446 Arc User
    OP, from what I am reading of your post, it sounds to me that you have issue with things being locked behind events, but either don't have the time, or the inclination, to unlock the rewards. To a degree, I do understand the frustration. We can't be online 24/7/365. Well, except for those basement-dwellers who still live with mommy.

    But if you want something bad enough, you will find a way to get it! It just seems to me that you don't want those things bad enough to do what you need to in order to to get the "shiney" after you jump through the game's "hoops".
    -AoP- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -AoP- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / -AoP- Project Phoenix
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  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,704 Arc User
    First I'd like to say I'm not a forum person, the fact that I bothered to seek out the forum and come here and make this thread speaks to the level of love/hate frustration I'm having with this game, if your only hope is to counter-signal me with ridicule, please do not bother to post to begin with. Thanks.

    I really like Star Trek and science fiction in general, and have attempted to get into this game several times. Our family likes doing the free annual Summer and Winter events, when I come back, I find that there's always something new hidden behind an artificial wall. A wall that has nothing to do with your subscription status, or what you bought, but merely for the fact that you were not here at a certain time.

    Now this is normal for a lot of games, especially when it comes to COSMETIC ITEMS, such as LOTRO and limited time mounts and costumes. When you see evidence of an artificial wall everywhere, such as the research slots requiring an unattainable character in order to unlock, it's frustrating to the point that it just turns me off from the game. I have no doubt this is in fact hurting, and not helping, the metrics of the game. It just shuts new players down. "Oh, there was a jemmie event yesterday, but now there's not... oh.. you could've made a delta recruit before then, but now you can't." ... okay...

    So it's just really discouraging to the point that it shuts me down and I end up only coming here during the summer events and winter events, every time I come back, there's further evidence that I cannot take the game mechanics seriously.

    I would strongly encourage the devs/pub to make time limited events mostly cosmetic, I understand the ships are a big draw, ... but why would I make a Jem'Hadar character at all, devs? Why would I use your NEW CHAPTER at all, knowing that it's a hollow shell? I mean seriously, look at it from the perspective of a new player, what would be the point of that? So I come here rarely, and YEARS have proven this model makes it impossible to make this MMO a regular part of my life. The only other thread I have made here, from 2016, shows this as well:

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1210322/so-i-see-theyre-continuing-to-go-the-opposite-direction-regarding-exclusivity-with-the-patch/p1

    So yeah that was from Jan 2016, and really... the divide is much bigger now, with three special character types that cannot be obtained with money, with a LTS, with anything. The game seems riddled with little unlocks you cannot access unless you have these characters, but I wouldn't know the real extent, since I can never hang with the game long enough.

    So I guess I'll get the free ship, which I will never use, and I will go away until winter, when I will get a ship, that I will never use... Remember your metrics, devs/pub, when you see the huge volume of people that play this way, well this is one of them, and I'm telling you what my problem with your game is. I would pay a monthly fee to access those character types, or, just knowing i COULD, I would at least be able to take the game seriously and know that I could buy that privilege if I wanted to.

    Thanks for your time, and please refer to the old thread. Might see some of you on Risa, if not... Winter Wonderland, lol.

    To a certain extent I agree with what you are saying. All the time-gated stuff make this game less casual friendly than it could be.

    And that's coming from someone who has been playing this game for almost six years now, with at least five and a half years on a daily basis. I have begun playing less often, and I would like to log on even less often still.

    Personally I would prefer it if they just released the events and let us choose when we do them. Like saying, ok, this year we will have 1 crystalline event, 1 recruitment event, 1 Breach event, and, possibly, 1 winter and summer event.

    Just open it all up, give the player a whole year to do the stuff, then move on to the next edition, letting the player choose when to do what. And perhaps within each event, they should remove the 20/24 hour cooldowns. So instead of asking players to log on for 25 days and do a certain thing each day, why not allow players to do it ten times in a row for example?

    If necessary, they could make it such that you can't finish before 25 days (without paying lobi) by some sort of day saving mechanic. If an event starts on the 10th of July for instance, and you haven't done the daily mission yet, you should be able to do it 10 times in a row on the 20th instead.
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    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
    I do regret two Temporal Recruit perks I've missed:

    - The [UR] MK XIII rep stuff by default
    - The Improved Critical Systems Trait
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,285 Arc User
    These events are always way longer than you need to actually unlock the ships, and considering they take 5 minutes a day to run, and they don't cost you nothing but a bit of time, this model for unlocking a top tier ship is absolutely fair.

    As for the Recruitment events, they advertise these well in advance (even emailing players), and for all but the AoY, you only needed to run the FIRST mission to get the Transponders. It is not the fault, nor is it the obligation of Cryptic to keep these events running all the time. They want an influx of new players and 6 weeks of such events, on top of the lead-up advertising is sufficient and the rewards are for being their at the time. Would you have such an attitude to Ferrari producing only 50 cars of a specific design? Would you get anywhere asking Corgi to start producing that Batmobile they discontinued 20 years ago??

    Needless to say, your ship is a tiny (cosmetic) part of being successful in this game. To be successful, it's your equipment and skills, not the ship.

    And on top of that, considering that the game gives you a huge plethora of things without you having to put your hands in your pocket is part of why this game is popular and one of the most generous in existance.

    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,475 Arc User
    The delta / temporal / jem'hadar recruits did not give you anything besides convenience features that no one needs to play the game.

    Extra marks boxes for characters? Easily earned from queues and red alerts. Extra dil? Admiralty.

    The best perk, the UR XIII reputation items? It just saves you some dil.

    It sounds like you've worked up a mountain of rage over missing perks that don't really matter.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,475 Arc User
    Also, I don't think any of my characters have used the trait unlocks except as placeholders for new characters until I replace them with better traits from ships.

    So nope, nothing at all is needed from the recruitment unlocks that you couldn't be bothered to spend a day claiming. (Each of the recruitment events only required doing the first few story episodes with the character during the event.)
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    Yeah, best not to look at the fleet mates who maximize and Epic gear as being ahead. You are not lacking anything but another bar that got filled. You can still participate in the action video game part without all that.

    NOW, if your fleet mates are holding you back from gear or information or most of all with holding their help because you are a more casual player than they are.... get out of that fleet!!!!
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,475 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Yeah, best not to look at the fleet mates who maximize and Epic gear as being ahead. You are not lacking anything but another bar that got filled. You can still participate in the action video game part without all that.

    NOW, if your fleet mates are holding you back from gear or information or most of all with holding their help because you are a more casual player than they are.... get out of that fleet!!!!

    That just requires dil, which you can grind for or buy with zen.

    This one is almost a valid point ...
    ... such as the research slots requiring an unattainable character in order to unlock ...

    ... except all that one extra R&D slot does is save you a little time (1/6 or 16%) when you decide to bulk-craft a bunch of Mark II items to get the mods you want. That's much less important than before now that you can just re-engineer for the other mods you want once you get the PEN or SPR or OVER. And how often is a player really going to bother bulk-crafting? I might do it a couple of times a year for a new character or to try a new beam or cannon build. You could also buy them instantly off the exchange.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    They do rerun the Recruit events, but if you don't play the game you'll just miss the reruns, too.

    Serious question: Why do you care about getting items you won't use for a game you don't play?
    /Thread
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • potasssiumpotasssium Member Posts: 1,226 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    Yeah, best not to look at the fleet mates who maximize and Epic gear as being ahead. You are not lacking anything but another bar that got filled. You can still participate in the action video game part without all that.

    NOW, if your fleet mates are holding you back from gear or information or most of all with holding their help because you are a more casual player than they are.... get out of that fleet!!!!

    Yup, opportunity cost, think of what else you did with your time. First of all I'm not going to put grinding pixels ahead of family matters, yeah maybe I'll finish the last anniversary event next year. Meanwhile I'll be downstairs with my soon to be 4 year old. If I finish the summer event it will likely involve spending Lobi.

    Just have to take a step back and evaluate your priorities. I know in most instances it's not grinding to play Space Barbie, though I will admit I ground out for that Jem-Hadar Light Battlecruiser for my Ferasan Tact who has the t5u & t6 JH-HEC and t5u JHDC.

    But as a mostly KDF player I can to Doffing and Maruadering while Watching Netflix, Crunchyroll, or Youtube, when my Son takes a nap.

    Most importantly when it starts to feel like a job, step away, and take a break.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    This one is almost a valid point ...
    ... such as the research slots requiring an unattainable character in order to unlock ...

    ... except all that one extra R&D slot does is save you a little time (1/6 or 16%) when you decide to bulk-craft a bunch of Mark II items to get the mods you want. That's much less important than before now that you can just re-engineer for the other mods you want once you get the PEN or SPR or OVER. And how often is a player really going to bother bulk-crafting? I might do it a couple of times a year for a new character or to try a new beam or cannon build. You could also buy them instantly off the exchange.
    It's not actually anywhere near a valid point. The 6th R&D slot unlock is sold in the Fleet Research Lab and has nothing whatsoever to do with event rewards.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    .....Bottom line TL;DR for devs/pubs: functional game mechanics and even accountwide perks useful for combat etc...

    None of which are required for you to play and succeed in the game.

    Honestly, if "being in" on all these special event perks is this important to you, why haven't you made the time to participate when they are running?


    The OP has a point, though: if you enter this game 'later on', then you're too late to ever fully catch up. AoY is a good example: it comes with perks that can never be had any more if you weren't there for the original event.

    (ENTER all "You don't need that stuff to play the game!!" cries)

    Indeed, you may not. But I can see how that might be discouraging to a new player.

    Events are designed to keep you in the game. It's an old MMO trick: the longer you stay in the game, the higher the chances you'll eventually start spending some RL cash. Which also means an Event must be exclusive, lest you lose the motivation to do it when it's running. All trite and true marketing ploys. An Event like AoY can never return any more: it would only be holding fresh content for newcomers, and be thematically out of place (literally 'of yesterday') to everyone else.

    So, the upshot of it all is, I understand the OP's frustration, but, while it may annoy me, I also get why it can't be otherwise.
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  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Starts off OP with a passive aggressive warning to forum users....hmmmm ok then.

    As to the topic at hand STO is certainly not the only game to host seasonal events for players and is actually a pretty damned generous one in that regard.
    Winter and summer events give you nearly a month and a half each to pay lesss than a months worth of daily 5 min tasks. Ample time unless you are away for the whole time, and to be fair they cannot cater to everyone’s time schedule.
    The anniversary event even gives you a head start so you are nearly 50% done on day one, though it is a little bit shorter.
    And all three events offer both the use of lobi to complete projects and the ability to start a project one year and finish next year if you so desire.
    PLUS all the seasonal events are now account unlocks too so you get the item/ship for as many characters as you want!

    So I think they are perfectly generous. There’s not much in STO you can’t earn with just a little bit of effort and time input; and if that’s not your cup of tea your can just throw cash at it for the same outcome. Lots of options.
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  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    As much as I agree with this sentiment personally, it's never going to happen.

    Leveraging FOMO (the Fear Of Missing Out) drives their log-in metrics. Limited-edition shinies always excite people. The revenue stream and log-in metrics are driven by that.

    So, your desire pretty much contradicts the reality of how games like this are run. No one chases a stick without a carrot on it.
    "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    No one chases a stick without a carrot on it.

    Or they chase all the sticks at the same time to collect the carrots as quickly as possible.

    Yeah, that is the same thing as the first guy said. Never mind me. LOL!

    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • tm706tm706 Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    Missing out on things that require participation is just part of life. Ny your own admission you seldom engage in playing the game. That, more than anything is what hampers a player from being "good" and not a few head-start items or embellishments gained from jumping through hoops. It's a trade off. If the gear/ship/buff is worth it, I'll make the time to engage in playing the content. If it's something I'm not interested in, I'll pass and instead engage in portions of the game I DO enjoy. Play what you love/like/enjoy. Ignore the rest. I promise you, the stuff from Delta Recruit/AOY/Gamma Recruit isn't amazing and has little effect on actual game play. It's convenience stuff given as a reward for jumping through a hoop. If you don't jump through the hoop, you don't get it.
    Coffee is life.

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  • wideningxgyrewideningxgyre Member Posts: 710 Arc User
    "First I'd like to say I'm not a forum person, the fact that I bothered to seek out the forum and come here and make this thread speaks to the level of love/hate frustration I'm having with this game, if your only hope is to counter-signal me with ridicule, please do not bother to post to begin with. Thanks."

    Reading OP's comments, this opening sentence seems to me to be the root of the problem.

    Many of OP's concerns are a function of not having some basic information about the game, such as not having leveled the AoY alt sufficiently to get the transponder or knowing when various events are happening to obtain certain items.

    Most people do not have an encyclopedic knowledge of the game, but you have to put in some time to get basic information - whether reading the announcements or coming to the forums to find out about special things like the USS Sally Ride admiralty card.

    It may be frustrating, but you simply can't expect to get all the goodies if you aren't willing to spend money or time - it's one or the other. Longtime players should be rewarded with perks that are not available to newer players - I accepted that fact and was happy when events like Delta Recruitment came back and items became available in the Phoenix Boxes. I'm still irritated I didn't slot the Vorgon Xyfius project because I didn't understand how the summer event worked my first year and thought I missed it, so didn't bother.

    You can play FTP and be competitive - most people are not breaking 150K dps in HSE - but that doesn't make you non-competitive or unable to enjoy the game. Conversely, you cannot expect to play at elite levels without putting in time because that's what min/max requires - getting the top gear available in-game.

    However, I do believe that long-time players who've been supporting the game and players who put in the time to develop their alts should be rewarded for their commitment. It would be somewhat unfair to them, otherwise. Not that I want to "punish" other players. But, not providing rewards is not the same as punishing people - event items, ships, recruitment perks are rewards for participating, not punishment for not participating.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    .....Bottom line TL;DR for devs/pubs: functional game mechanics and even accountwide perks useful for combat etc...

    None of which are required for you to play and succeed in the game.

    Honestly, if "being in" on all these special event perks is this important to you, why haven't you made the time to participate when they are running?


    The OP has a point, though: if you enter this game 'later on', then you're too late to ever fully catch up. AoY is a good example: it comes with perks that can never be had any more if you weren't there for the original event.

    (ENTER all "You don't need that stuff to play the game!!" cries)

    Indeed, you may not. But I can see how that might be discouraging to a new player.

    Events are designed to keep you in the game. It's an old MMO trick: the longer you stay in the game, the higher the chances you'll eventually start spending some RL cash. Which also means an Event must be exclusive, lest you lose the motivation to do it when it's running. All trite and true marketing ploys. An Event like AoY can never return any more: it would only be holding fresh content for newcomers, and be thematically out of place (literally 'of yesterday') to everyone else.
    They will rerun it, just like they recently did Delta Recruit. Most of the other events have their rewards eventually filter into the phoenix boxes.

    And BTW, "exclusivity" by itself isn't much of a reason to do events. Not all players are interested in collecting otherwise useless things just to have them, and the ones that do tend to be the same ones that are repulsed by having missed previous rewards. Better results are got by rerunning events on an upredictable and/or long schedule, so players can keep engaging it but still have time pressure to get things done when it's on. It also allows running far more events for the same amount of work.

    Of course that would require the rewards be useful things people really want in the first place, not funny little gimmick trinkets you try on once just for laughs before banking them (or in this age of account unlocks, discarding them).
This discussion has been closed.