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Can we get an "Unload surplus provisions" fleet project?

djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,361 Arc User
All these provisions are getting on my nerves. I don't want to discard them, because I got them as a reward, after all. And they are worth fleet credits-if there were ever any projects going. I'm in a big fleet that is also in charge of a huge armada, and there are never enough projects running that take fleet (or holding) provisions.

An "Unload surplus provisions" project for the starbase and every fleet holding would be VERY helpful, even at half value like the surplus marks one.
Something to consider...
C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk

Comments

  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Member Posts: 1,597 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    I hate to tell you, and I think this is really dumb truth be told, but Fleet Holding Provisions are worthless - they provide NO fleet credits when turned in.

    I don't know why they don't - after all you can earn them (or get them as a reward) just like every other resource used in Fleet Projects. The only explanation I heard that was even remotely logical was that they can be purchased from your ships replicator for fleet credits - thus you spend fleet credits to make (diminishing returns) fleet credits. However this reason really doesn't hold up either, as you can purchase DOffs with fleet credits to use in fleet projects that earn you (diminishing returns) fleet credits.

    I really wish the dev team would fix this oversight - after all you are contributing to the fleet - you should get some credit for that.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    I don't know why they don't

    Fleet provisions are normally acquired by spending fleet credits. Any reward would be a net cost reduction and counterproductive to their exclusive function as FC sink. Doffs don't fall into the same category because they weren't created simply for that purpose (see. doffing, active officers, R&D, having a crew.) While you can treat white quality officers in much the same way as provisions (just buy them from the fleet contact to donate), this is incidental to their design. Plus, this setup also allows for Doffs to be an accessible means for players to earn FC through nominal gameplay activities (ie. academy recruitment) without having to first invest in higher fleet tiers (as is the case for most provision doffing assignments.)

    Rewards for doffs is complimentary to the fleet system. A net cost reduction to donated officers bought through the fleet store is effectively pricing the officers as a simple fleet resource, versus a gameplay resource (with more versatility). Rewards for provisions is counterproductive (they are only a fleet resource [ie. an FC sink].)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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  • usskentuckyusskentucky Member Posts: 402 Arc User
    I got a bunch from my gamma recruit too. I’ve been checking the armada holdings everyday for a place to dump them but fleet leaders usually fill those slots first thing. I’m probably just going to end up discarding then
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Discard them.
  • forerunnerknight#7803 forerunnerknight Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    How about fleet provision donations awarding fleet marks,doing this would create a nice circular fleet economy.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,876 Arc User
    I'd rather have an "unload worthless green crafting mats" project where I could turn in a stack of 999 green mats :)
  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Member Posts: 1,597 Arc User

    I don't know why they don't

    Fleet provisions are normally acquired by spending fleet credits. Any reward would be a net cost reduction and counterproductive to their exclusive function as FC sink. Doffs don't fall into the same category because they weren't created simply for that purpose (see. doffing, active officers, R&D, having a crew.) While you can treat white quality officers in much the same way as provisions (just buy them from the fleet contact to donate), this is incidental to their design. Plus, this setup also allows for Doffs to be an accessible means for players to earn FC through nominal gameplay activities (ie. academy recruitment) without having to first invest in higher fleet tiers (as is the case for most provision doffing assignments.)

    Rewards for doffs is complimentary to the fleet system. A net cost reduction to donated officers bought through the fleet store is effectively pricing the officers as a simple fleet resource, versus a gameplay resource (with more versatility). Rewards for provisions is counterproductive (they are only a fleet resource [ie. an FC sink].)

    I understand they are a Fleet Credit sink and completely worthless for anything but Fleet Projects, but still you are using a resource to advance your Fleet Holdings along (regardless of where you obtained it - bought, awarded, earned), you should get some credit for that.


    Just make the returns in Fleet Credits for Fleet Provisions (nearly useless) less than Fleet Credits for DOffs (useful). But they should give something for being turned in - not just fill a slot. Make it so people WANT to do the numerous Fleet missions available to earn them.
  • djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,361 Arc User
    > @captainhunter1 said:
    > I hate to tell you, and I think this is really dumb truth be told, but Fleet Holding Provisions are worthless - they provide NO fleet credits when turned in.
    >
    > I don't know why they don't - after all you can earn them (or get them as a reward) just like every other resource used in Fleet Projects. The only explanation I heard that was even remotely logical was that they can be purchased from your ships replicator for fleet credits - thus you spend fleet credits to make (diminishing returns) fleet credits. However this reason really doesn't hold up either, as you can purchase DOffs with fleet credits to use in fleet projects that earn you (diminishing returns) fleet credits.
    >
    > I really wish the dev team would fix this oversight - after all you are contributing to the fleet - you should get some credit for that.

    Seriously? On the few projects I have found, I could have sworn I was getting credits. Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention. Well then, if I don't get anything for them, I guess I'll discard them. Not getting credits definitely takes away my motivation to use them (assuming I could find an unfilled project).
    C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

    Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
    -Captain James T. Kirk
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    That's correct. They cost 50 FC to buy and give you nothing in return. They act as a FC sink since the side holdings projects create a ton of FC's from all the dilithium donations. So if you have too many of them, just discard them.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    I understand they are a Fleet Credit sink and completely worthless for anything but Fleet Projects, but still you are using a resource to advance your Fleet Holdings along (regardless of where you obtained it - bought, awarded, earned), you should get some credit for that.

    Why should we though? The one function of the fleet provision is to be a fleet credit sink. A payout is antithetical to that, not simply unnecessary but working against that one function. And that function is relevant or not based on whether anyone in your armada needs to progress through their fleet holdings or resupply them (that's ultimately the reward for using them, they are required to gain new tiers and accompanying unlocks.) That decision wouldn't be affected by a token FC payout from fleet provisions (it would take a largeadjustment for provisions to enter into a fleet's min-maxing input-return calculations.) So, the thread's stated problem would remain.

    Why not consider a coffer system instead? It saves FC in the grand scheme of things (someone may eventually use them) and it removes the problem of hitting an availability window for fleet projects.
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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  • djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,361 Arc User
    Why would we need a fleet credit sink though? I'm honestly a little confused by that. Fleet credits are needed for actual good gear
    And having extra credits doesn't hurt anything, but having all these extra provisions hurts my inventory space.
    My Gamma recruit has 500000 fleet credits. That doesn't hurt him one bit, in fact I know I can get any fleet gear I want for a while. Why would I want a credit sink?
    C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

    Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
    -Captain James T. Kirk
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    djf021 wrote: »
    And having extra credits doesn't hurt anything, but having all these extra provisions hurts my inventory space.
    My Gamma recruit has 500000 fleet credits. That doesn't hurt him one bit, in fact I know I can get any fleet gear I want for a while. Why would I want a credit sink?

    Are we to presume then, based on your criteria there, that the reason we donate dilithium and EC to fleet holdings is that their surplus is hurting us and we need to get as much of it out of player inventories as possible or else STO will spontaneously combust?

    Seriously, I'm not going to explain the principle behind donating resources as the cost to developing a fleet holding without a better idea about whether this thread needs a STO 101 lecture. Fleet credits are simply another desirable resource which can be included in the fleet development scheme, in small part (though it's not the largest FC sink in that ecosystem, a subject you'll note we haven't covered yet.)

    And again: you should consider (as the OP) that giving a small amount of FC for your spare provisions is in no way to make your fleet/armada more likely to slot fleet holding projects (if we look at realistic possibilities rather than vague generalities.) The plausible adjustments are very likely to be token to marginal, far short from affecting fleet decision making. A provision coffer is a more complete solution (and stronger suggestion, what counts against it is simply needing dev time) to your stated problem (you get permanent option to unload surplus provisions at will [no need for slotting] and save your fleet [in total] from needing to spend more FC on provisions [a net gain].)
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    djf021 wrote: »
    Why would we need a fleet credit sink though? I'm honestly a little confused by that
    Cryptic wanted a FC sink to prevent other things like easy doff buying for starbase projects. Didn't matter as I easily made enough FC's to buy all the doff's I needed to get to Tier 5.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,623 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    djf021 wrote: »
    Why would we need a fleet credit sink though? I'm honestly a little confused by that
    Cryptic wanted a FC sink to prevent other things like easy doff buying for starbase projects. Didn't matter as I easily made enough FC's to buy all the doff's I needed to get to Tier 5.

    Well that rather demonstrates that provisions weren't designed to function as a single, heavy handed regulator of all FC activity [else the costs would have been much greater.] They're just a little something that [in normal circumstances] encourages the fleet members with the greatest pile of FC to donate that useful resource to projects that require it (as a way of augmenting the cost of fleet holdings through a generalized resource that represents a contribution of EC, dilithium, doffs, or marks without specifying which one or in what balance the price of development is paid. You just have to put something in to earn the FC for provisions.)

    Even in the worst case scenario [end-tier construction projects] the provision cost is annoying to meet by the highest-rolling individuals alone but it's not a long term block on using FC to buy higher quality doffs for exchange EC [for example]. Eventually, provision projects aren't necessary (at least in the extreme). The cost they represent has been paid.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
    Transcendence, Part 4
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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    I understand they are a Fleet Credit sink and completely worthless for anything but Fleet Projects, but still you are using a resource to advance your Fleet Holdings along (regardless of where you obtained it - bought, awarded, earned), you should get some credit for that.

    Why should we though? The one function of the fleet provision is to be a fleet credit sink. A payout is antithetical to that, not simply unnecessary but working against that one function. And that function is relevant or not based on whether anyone in your armada needs to progress through their fleet holdings or resupply them (that's ultimately the reward for using them, they are required to gain new tiers and accompanying unlocks.) That decision wouldn't be affected by a token FC payout from fleet provisions (it would take a largeadjustment for provisions to enter into a fleet's min-maxing input-return calculations.) So, the thread's stated problem would remain.

    Why not consider a coffer system instead? It saves FC in the grand scheme of things (someone may eventually use them) and it removes the problem of hitting an availability window for fleet projects.
    There is no need to save FC. People who contribute have boatloads of FC, nothing to put all it in even with the provisions. Whoever puts in the fleet marks, can use those FC to fill the provisions. It's only fair they got to take a dump in the project they pay the dumping fee. :D

    OTOH, I do think they should've kept the vendor price on the provisions so people could've sold the superfluous garbage from stuff like the gamma event for a few peanuts instead of just tossing it all.
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    The real question is why we even NEED fleet provisions, instead of just an FC bar to fill. Long after the entire fleet holding thing is finished, we just get pages and pages of this **** clogging our replicator menus.
    Yeah, should be just an FC bar.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,789 Arc User
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    The real question is why we even NEED fleet provisions, instead of just an FC bar to fill. Long after the entire fleet holding thing is finished, we just get pages and pages of this **** clogging our replicator menus.

    Hey, at least they got it right with the research lab weekly project.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • mattaukettmattaukett Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    There is an unload fleet provisions type project on the embassy, takes 40 provisions and pays squat (well 5 holding XP, so close enough). I've seen a few unsuspecting people load that project a few times which then blocks out the associate upgrade mission slot until some poor person ditches the Fleet Credits on clearing the project for no return.

    So long and short, I'm all for an unload surplus provisions project, just so long as it gives some sort of tangible reward unlike the embassy version. However given that all the current holdings are now old holdings and Cryptic doesn't tend to go back over old content I'd be amazed if this request ever got actioned.
  • djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,361 Arc User
    djf021 wrote: »
    And having extra credits doesn't hurt anything, but having all these extra provisions hurts my inventory space.
    My Gamma recruit has 500000 fleet credits. That doesn't hurt him one bit, in fact I know I can get any fleet gear I want for a while. Why would I want a credit sink?

    Are we to presume then, based on your criteria there, that the reason we donate dilithium and EC to fleet holdings is that their surplus is hurting us and we need to get as much of it out of player inventories as possible or else STO will spontaneously combust?

    I think that reaction is a bit strong. I understand how donating to fleet projects works, I've been doing it since the fleet starbases were added to the game. All I mean is, fleet credits are just a number on my assets tab, they don't actually take up space. So if I have a "surplus" of them, it is no inconvenience for me. And they are used to actually buy useful gear. Gear I've earned the permission to buy by donating dilithium, duty officers, and marks. I want fleet credits, there's no reason I can think of that I would yearn for a fleet credit sink.
    If I have plenty of fleet credits and my fleet has open projects needing provisions, sure, I'll spend some FCs to get the provisions, to help my fleet. But right now I'm swimming in provisions and they are taking up inventory space with no projects to put them in. So an extra provisions sink would be very welcome, much more so than a sink for a resource I actually want.
    C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

    Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
    -Captain James T. Kirk
  • captainhunter1captainhunter1 Member Posts: 1,597 Arc User
    Why not consider a coffer system instead? It saves FC in the grand scheme of things (someone may eventually use them) and it removes the problem of hitting an availability window for fleet projects.

    Now this I can get behind! Works great for the Colony World Holding - and would take the sting out of getting bupkis for turning in a Resource item.

    (Or simply up the cost of Provisions to 60 FC (from 50) and give the player 10 FC for turning them in - a net zero sum, leaving the situation as is, but FEELING like you got rewarded for helping out. :tongue: ....'cause getting nothing feels bad man. :/ )
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