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Me, helping the Kobali. [GIF]

arkle#8984 arkle Member Posts: 78 Arc User
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Am I the only one who hates that the only real option in the game is to completely help the Kobali unequivocally? I mean, stopping the Vaadwuar from wiping them out, that I can get behind, but I hate that I have to go along with trying to "fix" it so that Vaadwuar bodies can't be used for "rebirth." Maybe I've done too many Paragon runs of Mass Effect but I'd at least like a real chance to find a compromise solution in game to the conflict. 'Cause, I mean, how the Kobali reproduce is kinda creepy but I could let it slide if they got permission first, or if they used bodies that were abandoned/forgotten by their people. But sitting on all those stasis pods, just waiting for the occupants to kick the bucket... Eww.

Edit: I suppose I should've noted that I've not completed the whole thing yet. I am a fairly new player (only 2 weeks as of July 1st), after all.
Characters: Rida Vodad (Trill), Niana (Orion), Karak'Son (Jem'Hadar), Jhanel Aphram (Andorian), Tevana (Romulan), Anahera Ngata (Human), Choadesh (Alien), Manek (Reman), C'Reta (Ferrasan), Kamak'Zun (Jem'Hedar), Joyal Krin (Cardassian), and Lur'Ast (Klingon).
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Post edited by arkle#8984 on
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Comments

  • seriousdaveseriousdave Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    It was a much discussed topic at the release of DR and there were many who weren't quite happy with our course of action regarding the kobali.
  • arkle#8984 arkle Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    I can see why. I'm not unsympathetic, I'm fine with stopping the Vaadwuar from just wiping them out, but the rest of it...
    Characters: Rida Vodad (Trill), Niana (Orion), Karak'Son (Jem'Hadar), Jhanel Aphram (Andorian), Tevana (Romulan), Anahera Ngata (Human), Choadesh (Alien), Manek (Reman), C'Reta (Ferrasan), Kamak'Zun (Jem'Hedar), Joyal Krin (Cardassian), and Lur'Ast (Klingon).
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  • arkle#8984 arkle Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    1. Its fiction.
    2. Every Trek captain has done worse in the shows.
    3. Get over it.

    1. I know.
    2. I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about the game I am currently playing on a forum about said game.
    3. You could've just skipped the thread if you really cared that little. You could've said nothing. But instead you decided to be an TRIBBLE. Hope you're proud of yourself, because nobody else is ever gonna be.
    Characters: Rida Vodad (Trill), Niana (Orion), Karak'Son (Jem'Hadar), Jhanel Aphram (Andorian), Tevana (Romulan), Anahera Ngata (Human), Choadesh (Alien), Manek (Reman), C'Reta (Ferrasan), Kamak'Zun (Jem'Hedar), Joyal Krin (Cardassian), and Lur'Ast (Klingon).
    Tumblr: thehumanarkle.tumblr.com
    Twitter: @G33kOfAllTrades
    YouTube: youtube.com/user/arklestudios
    AO3 Pseudonym: ZeusParker
  • arkle#8984 arkle Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    You also do not and will not ever get to dictate what I say or where I say it.

    You're the kind of guy who thinks getting blocked on Twitter counts as censorship, aren't you?
    Characters: Rida Vodad (Trill), Niana (Orion), Karak'Son (Jem'Hadar), Jhanel Aphram (Andorian), Tevana (Romulan), Anahera Ngata (Human), Choadesh (Alien), Manek (Reman), C'Reta (Ferrasan), Kamak'Zun (Jem'Hedar), Joyal Krin (Cardassian), and Lur'Ast (Klingon).
    Tumblr: thehumanarkle.tumblr.com
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    YouTube: youtube.com/user/arklestudios
    AO3 Pseudonym: ZeusParker
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
    You don't know him very well to say something like that.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • locutusofcactuslocutusofcactus Member Posts: 651 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    You don't know him very well to say something like that.

    Considering most of their 7,000 posts are disputing someone's thread/general trolling... but I digress.

    To hunt a species to near extinction just because some of the more aggressive soldiers survived and have a "fight for survival" mentality against a species who desecrate any corpse they come across is a tough pill to swallow. I liked how they turned the Hur'q from an enemy to a relatable species. For the Hur'q, they were somewhat like beehive getting hit. In regards to the Kobali, too bad there's not a set of kill accolades for them.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,247 Community Moderator
    arkle#8984 wrote: »
    Am I the only one who hates that the only real option in the game is to completely help the Kobali unequivocally? I mean, stopping the Vaadwuar from wiping them out, that I can get behind, but I hate that I have to go along with trying to "fix" it so that Vaadwuar bodies can't be used for "rebirth." Maybe I've done too many Paragon runs of Mass Effect but I'd at least like a real chance to find a compromise solution in game to the conflict. 'Cause, I mean, how the Kobali reproduce is kinda creepy but I could let it slide if they got permission first, or if they used bodies that were abandoned/forgotten by their people. But sitting on all those stasis pods, just waiting for the occupants to kick the bucket... Eww.


    Well, searching the forum could have easily answered your first question, OP. You'd have found numerous threads and comments on the subject going all the way back to the launch of Delta Rising.

    As often as this topic has come up, and as many times as players have played through the Kobali story on alts, it still surprises me that players apparently don't understand that a compromise was reached by the end of it.

    The Kobali agreed to cease turning Vaadwaur into Kobali, and to maintain the upkeep on the failing stasis pods. They also agreed to release all Vaadwaur in stasis once hostilities cease and a peaceful resolution is reached with the Vaadwaur. In the meantime, they would continue to use the temple and its empty stasis pods to store bodies of non-Vaadwaur who were to become Kobali. The bodies would be acquired from worlds that the Vaadwaur attacked, and permission would be asked of the peoples of those worlds to take the bodies of the Vaadwaur's victims to give them a second chance at life.

    That players continue to overlook all of that and assume that the Kobali are continuing to ghoulishly wait for Vaadwaur to die in stasis just so they can turn them into Kobali... they're either skipping over it by just clicking through the dialogue, or are being willfully ignorant of the storyline.
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  • foxman00foxman00 Member Posts: 1,478 Arc User
    arkle#8984 wrote: »
    Am I the only one who hates that the only real option in the game is to completely help the Kobali unequivocally? I mean, stopping the Vaadwuar from wiping them out, that I can get behind, but I hate that I have to go along with trying to "fix" it so that Vaadwuar bodies can't be used for "rebirth." Maybe I've done too many Paragon runs of Mass Effect but I'd at least like a real chance to find a compromise solution in game to the conflict. 'Cause, I mean, how the Kobali reproduce is kinda creepy but I could let it slide if they got permission first, or if they used bodies that were abandoned/forgotten by their people. But sitting on all those stasis pods, just waiting for the occupants to kick the bucket... Eww.


    Well, searching the forum could have easily answered your first question, OP. You'd have found numerous threads and comments on the subject going all the way back to the launch of Delta Rising.

    As often as this topic has come up, and as many times as players have played through the Kobali story on alts, it still surprises me that players apparently don't understand that a compromise was reached by the end of it.

    The Kobali agreed to cease turning Vaadwaur into Kobali, and to maintain the upkeep on the failing stasis pods. They also agreed to release all Vaadwaur in stasis once hostilities cease and a peaceful resolution is reached with the Vaadwaur. In the meantime, they would continue to use the temple and its empty stasis pods to store bodies of non-Vaadwaur who were to become Kobali. The bodies would be acquired from worlds that the Vaadwaur attacked, and permission would be asked of the peoples of those worlds to take the bodies of the Vaadwaur's victims to give them a second chance at life.

    That players continue to overlook all of that and assume that the Kobali are continuing to ghoulishly wait for Vaadwaur to die in stasis just so they can turn them into Kobali... they're either skipping over it by just clicking through the dialogue, or are being willfully ignorant of the storyline.

    baddmoonrizin, I recommend keeping a copy of this post for yourself. So when this topic comes up again, and it will, you can post this to stop any misinformation.

    I wasn't happy either when I found out what the Kobali where doing either. However, they werent intentionally allowing pods to fail, which would have tipped them over the line. I wasn't happy they kept it hidden either. But considering what has happened to their society and their species because of a stupid mistake in there past history, shouldnt consign them to become extinct.

    Also, interfering with how they "reproduce" would be a violation of the primary directive. Though, it is a line issue if we can "recommend" they ask permission from the species in question. Not only do they kept existing, it allows the species in question to ask themselves a question, that maybe not even some humans have asked.

    What is a human body, after it has "expired". Who "owns" the body in a sense. If the person in question didn't leave any instructions behind to how they "laid" While they may have said they want to be buried, does that mean forever more, that body cannot be moved?

    Thats why I love the Kobali arc. It makes us so uncomfortable, because it asks a question we have never considered, as well as forces us to think "What comes after death, for the body of the individual in question?"
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  • usskentuckyusskentucky Member Posts: 402 Arc User
    Imagine what a Kobali would think about helping the federation? So much genocide. So many deaths. And for nothing. No rebirth, just the empty void of oblivion, and for what? Imaginary lines drawn in space? To acquire the resources of lesser species so that the fat cats on Earth, Vulcan, and Tellar can grow rich and consume the entire galaxy? Aiding the Dominion sacrificed what little moral high ground the federation had after the debacle that was the Iconian War. The Kobali should ally themselves with the Klingons, a noble race that recognizes the dead body as nothing more than an empty shell.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    arkle#8984 wrote: »
    Am I the only one who hates that the only real option in the game is to completely help the Kobali unequivocally? I mean, stopping the Vaadwuar from wiping them out, that I can get behind, but I hate that I have to go along with trying to "fix" it so that Vaadwuar bodies can't be used for "rebirth." Maybe I've done too many Paragon runs of Mass Effect but I'd at least like a real chance to find a compromise solution in game to the conflict. 'Cause, I mean, how the Kobali reproduce is kinda creepy but I could let it slide if they got permission first, or if they used bodies that were abandoned/forgotten by their people. But sitting on all those stasis pods, just waiting for the occupants to kick the bucket... Eww.


    Well, searching the forum could have easily answered your first question, OP. You'd have found numerous threads and comments on the subject going all the way back to the launch of Delta Rising.

    As often as this topic has come up, and as many times as players have played through the Kobali story on alts, it still surprises me that players apparently don't understand that a compromise was reached by the end of it.

    The Kobali agreed to cease turning Vaadwaur into Kobali, and to maintain the upkeep on the failing stasis pods. They also agreed to release all Vaadwaur in stasis once hostilities cease and a peaceful resolution is reached with the Vaadwaur. In the meantime, they would continue to use the temple and its empty stasis pods to store bodies of non-Vaadwaur who were to become Kobali. The bodies would be acquired from worlds that the Vaadwaur attacked, and permission would be asked of the peoples of those worlds to take the bodies of the Vaadwaur's victims to give them a second chance at life.

    That players continue to overlook all of that and assume that the Kobali are continuing to ghoulishly wait for Vaadwaur to die in stasis just so they can turn them into Kobali... they're either skipping over it by just clicking through the dialogue, or are being willfully ignorant of the storyline.

    While it is true that the Kobali have changed their ways of doing things, I disagree with the notion that players are (in general) ignoring that.

    Most complaints were about us not having any meaningful choice in the matter at that time. Few people were denying that a compromise was made in the end - the problem was that we only came to that compromise after finding out that the Kobali had been lying to us, hiding things from us and deceiving us by pretending that they were just another victim of the Vaadwaur.

    When they were in fact the ones who started the conflict, and were also the main cause for it taking so long to be solved.


    So their attitude (lying, deceiving, arrogantly claiming it is their Q given right to do what they're doing and that others should even be grateful regardless of their own beliefs and values), the lack of any options to change our actions based on what we find out during the arc despite their obstruction, and the excuse for being forced to keep doing what the Alliance was doing (Prime Directive, which was a pretty bullshitish and senseless excuse) - those were the main reasons why people didn't like it. Combined with the fact that there's no way to skip the content, which makes all these shortcomings relevant in the first place.


    On top of the fact that their 'ok, we'll do it differently from now on' came far too late, it never felt like a genuine change of heart. They didn't change their ways because they were convinced that what they were doing was wrong, they only changed because they finally realised they couldn't hide it any longer and might suffer themselves if they kept doing things the same way.

    And their reluctant giving in to the Alliance, doesn't address many of the other complaints.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    arkle#8984 wrote: »
    Am I the only one who hates that the only real option in the game is to completely help the Kobali unequivocally? I mean, stopping the Vaadwuar from wiping them out, that I can get behind, but I hate that I have to go along with trying to "fix" it so that Vaadwuar bodies can't be used for "rebirth." Maybe I've done too many Paragon runs of Mass Effect but I'd at least like a real chance to find a compromise solution in game to the conflict. 'Cause, I mean, how the Kobali reproduce is kinda creepy but I could let it slide if they got permission first, or if they used bodies that were abandoned/forgotten by their people. But sitting on all those stasis pods, just waiting for the occupants to kick the bucket... Eww.


    Well, searching the forum could have easily answered your first question, OP. You'd have found numerous threads and comments on the subject going all the way back to the launch of Delta Rising.

    As often as this topic has come up, and as many times as players have played through the Kobali story on alts, it still surprises me that players apparently don't understand that a compromise was reached by the end of it.

    The Kobali agreed to cease turning Vaadwaur into Kobali, and to maintain the upkeep on the failing stasis pods. They also agreed to release all Vaadwaur in stasis once hostilities cease and a peaceful resolution is reached with the Vaadwaur. In the meantime, they would continue to use the temple and its empty stasis pods to store bodies of non-Vaadwaur who were to become Kobali. The bodies would be acquired from worlds that the Vaadwaur attacked, and permission would be asked of the peoples of those worlds to take the bodies of the Vaadwaur's victims to give them a second chance at life.

    That players continue to overlook all of that and assume that the Kobali are continuing to ghoulishly wait for Vaadwaur to die in stasis just so they can turn them into Kobali... they're either skipping over it by just clicking through the dialogue, or are being willfully ignorant of the storyline.

    While it is true that the Kobali have changed their ways of doing things, I disagree with the notion that players are (in general) ignoring that.

    Most complaints were about us not having any meaningful choice in the matter at that time. Few people were denying that a compromise was made in the end - the problem was that we only came to that compromise after finding out that the Kobali had been lying to us, hiding things from us and deceiving us by pretending that they were just another victim of the Vaadwaur.

    When they were in fact the ones who started the conflict, and were also the main cause for it taking so long to be solved.


    So their attitude (lying, deceiving, arrogantly claiming it is their Q given right to do what they're doing and that others should even be grateful regardless of their own beliefs and values), the lack of any options to change our actions based on what we find out during the arc despite their obstruction, and the excuse for being forced to keep doing what the Alliance was doing (Prime Directive, which was a pretty bullshitish and senseless excuse) - those were the main reasons why people didn't like it. Combined with the fact that there's no way to skip the content, which makes all these shortcomings relevant in the first place.


    On top of the fact that their 'ok, we'll do it differently from now on' came far too late, it never felt like a genuine change of heart. They didn't change their ways because they were convinced that what they were doing was wrong, they only changed because they finally realised they couldn't hide it any longer and might suffer themselves if they kept doing things the same way.

    And their reluctant giving in to the Alliance, doesn't address many of the other complaints.
    Right. More than the politics of the situation, the players' forced acquiescence with it all is the heart of the matter. We are forced to assist the kobali in holding their hostages, without even being allowed to express dissent.

    And then there's the major fault with the eventual compromise:
    The kobali have no grounds to detain the vaadwaur in stasis. They are NOT prisoners of war. They have been in stasis for a thousand years and therefore can't possibly be party to the hostilities with the kobali. The kobali are continuing to hold noncombatants hostage based on nothing but race, which is objectively wrong.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,913 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Actually, if they give back the ones in stasis, what's to stop the Vaudwaar from turning around and wiping them (the Kobali) out?
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
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  • tvirxtvirx Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    I actually rather enjoy the Kobali arc; so much so, that I often feature the VR Kobali boff as an integral component of both my bridge and away teams. The story-line is generally well done (graphics, originality, etc.) and the selectable difficulty thing is fun, just to name a couple nifty features of the arc.

    Moral judgments levied against video game content are generally pointless, if only because most popular games involve genocide and mass-murder on levels that are mind-numbing to say the least.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    echatty wrote: »
    Actually, if they give back the ones in stasis, what's to stop the Vaudwaar from turning around and wiping them (the Kobali) out?
    The Invincible Player Character, presumably. Using human shields is a war crime in and of itself.
  • jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    The Kobali should ally themselves with the Klingons, a noble race that recognizes the dead body as nothing more than an empty shell.

    I wonder if Klingon corpses subjected to Kobalification retain their memories intact as humans do. If so, I wonder how Klingon Philosophers, Monks, and Loremasters will react to a Kobali appearing in Imperial space claiming to be a KDF officer known to have died in the Delta Quadrant....and can back up his claims with words and deeds (probably at least one duel to the death would be fought over the issue)....and seeks to reclaim his place in Klingon society, if not the KDF itself.

    Is it really him/her or a new being? Did the soul of the fallen warrior get pulled out of Stovakor/Gre'thor when their body was Kobalified? Is this warrior still a Klingon? If the soul of this individual is the original, what are the ramifications for the Afterlife? If one had gone to Gre'thor, this would be a precious opportunity to redeem one's self.....but being pulled out of Stovakor against one's consent, to awaken in their own, now genetically altered reanimated corpse would probably not be a cause for celebration by either the concerned party, or their heirs. And it would certainly spark a serious philosophical debate among those who believe in the Klingon afterlife (most Klingons so far as I can tell) and who if admitted to Stovakor aren't going to want to leave for a re-roll on their fate for Eternity.

    The political ramifications of even a single Klingon of note getting Kobalified and returning to the Empire could be huge depending how it is received.

    For that matter, Harry Kim returning to the Federation and suing to get his identity back would undoubtedly have to be ultimately decided by the Federation Supreme Court....most likely in his favor unless he's left to twist in the wind for political reasons....and would probably get Janeway cashiered no matter how it ended up.

  • usskentuckyusskentucky Member Posts: 402 Arc User
    > @jrdobbsjr#3264 said:
    > usskentucky wrote: »
    >
    > The Kobali should ally themselves with the Klingons, a noble race that recognizes the dead body as nothing more than an empty shell.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > I wonder if Klingon corpses subjected to Kobalification retain their memories intact as humans do. If so, I wonder how Klingon Philosophers, Monks, and Loremasters will react to a Kobali appearing in Imperial space claiming to be a KDF officer known to have died in the Delta Quadrant....and can back up his claims with words and deeds (probably at least one duel to the death would be fought over the issue)....and seeks to reclaim his place in Klingon society, if not the KDF itself.
    >
    > Is it really him/her or a new being? Did the soul of the fallen warrior get pulled out of Stovakor/Gre'thor when their body was Kobalified? Is this warrior still a Klingon? If the soul of this individual is the original, what are the ramifications for the Afterlife? If one had gone to Gre'thor, this would be a precious opportunity to redeem one's self.....but being pulled out of Stovakor against one's consent, to awaken in their own, now genetically altered reanimated corpse would probably not be a cause for celebration by either the concerned party, or their heirs. And it would certainly spark a serious philosophical debate among those who believe in the Klingon afterlife (most Klingons so far as I can tell) and who if admitted to Stovakor aren't going to want to leave for a re-roll on their fate for Eternity.
    >
    > The political ramifications of even a single Klingon of note getting Kobalified and returning to the Empire could be huge depending how it is received.
    >
    > For that matter, Harry Kim returning to the Federation and suing to get his identity back would undoubtedly have to be ultimately decided by the Federation Supreme Court....most likely in his favor unless he's left to twist in the wind for political reasons....and would probably get Janeway cashiered no matter how it ended up.

    I don’t see how it would be much different than cloning Kahless.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    The kobali are continuing to hold noncombatants hostage based on nothing but race, which is objectively wrong.
    Who? Turns out that 99% of the Vaads in stasis are military. Yeah, let them out and they might just shoot you for being not-a-Vaadwaur….
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  • jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    > @usskentucky said:
    > I don’t see how it would be much different than cloning Kahless.

    The clones of Kahless are just that, genetic copies of the original Klingon who lived long ago. They are otherwise unique people with their own soul. When Kagran (I believe) discussed Clone Kahless's death, he said he hoped he found Stovakor to his liking....implying he had earned a place there in his own right. He no doubt believed the original and the clone were both there as they had earned it in their own unique lives.

    A modern Kobali OTOH, is the original person, reanimated by the Kobali virus. You're saying, in effect that the virus creates a new soul in the former corpse. If that Kobali clearly remembers its "first" life, as both humans known to have been Kobalified clearly do....that would raise questions if one of them came back with the Kobali on his heels, claiming to be a Klingon.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    > @usskentucky said:
    > I don’t see how it would be much different than cloning Kahless.

    The clones of Kahless are just that, genetic copies of the original Klingon who lived long ago. They are otherwise unique people with their own soul. When Kagran (I believe) discussed Clone Kahless's death, he said he hoped he found Stovakor to his liking....implying he had earned a place there in his own right. He no doubt believed the original and the clone were both there as they had earned it in their own unique lives.

    A modern Kobali OTOH, is the original person, reanimated by the Kobali virus. You're saying, in effect that the virus creates a new soul in the former corpse. If that Kobali clearly remembers its "first" life, as both humans known to have been Kobalified clearly do....that would raise questions if one of them came back with the Kobali on his heels, claiming to be a Klingon.

    The Kobali say that normally, they don't remember their former life. And that seems to make sense to me. I doubt that every Vaadwaur Kobali would be willing to engage in war against their own people automatically.

    Humans seem to be the ones that cause trouble in the process, for whatever reason. Maybe there are other species that have the same problem, but they are clearly not the normal case.

    And the whole "soul" thing is pretty much just belief. Even if he had 100 % identical memories there is nothing to prove that the people share a soul, because there pretty much is nothing you can prove about souls in the first place. And in Star Trek, memory transfer techniques certainly exist.

    The closest to something provable we might have would be Vulcan katras, but even there we cannot be sure. At the end of Wrath of Khan, Spock allegedly gave his katra to McCoy already when he talks to Kirk. Is a soulless Spock speaking to him, and we're just seeing at some kindof automaton? Or is the katra in two places at once? Or is the katra in McCoy a copy? And there is no indication that Humans or Klingons have a katra.
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  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    @baddmoonrizin: Also there's this little incident of us being required by the storyline to help the Kobali circumvent the Vaadwaur vaccinating themselves against being brought back as Kobali (this is right before the Vaads start using poison gas on the battlefield). And frankly, after all the times the damned zombies lie to our faces, I see little reason to trust that they're keeping up their end of the bargain. "No, Captain Awesomesauce, this cryotube totally failed on its own! I certainly didn't cut the power cables so I could steal the contents!"

    The story should have ended with the Alliance seizing the Vault and any Vaadwaur corpses from the Kobali and reviving the surviving hostages for repatriation.

    > @markhawkman said:
    > Who? Turns out that 99% of the Vaads in stasis are military. Yeah, let them out and they might just shoot you for being not-a-Vaadwaur….

    Reread "Dust to Dust", most of them are legally still CHILDREN.
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  • ashstorm1ashstorm1 Member Posts: 679 Arc User
    arkle#8984 wrote: »
    tumblr_inline_oe4frpD9h21qgxrfl_250.gif

    Am I the only one who hates that the only real option in the game is to completely help the Kobali unequivocally? I mean, stopping the Vaadwuar from wiping them out, that I can get behind, but I hate that I have to go along with trying to "fix" it so that Vaadwuar bodies can't be used for "rebirth." Maybe I've done too many Paragon runs of Mass Effect but I'd at least like a real chance to find a compromise solution in game to the conflict. 'Cause, I mean, how the Kobali reproduce is kinda creepy but I could let it slide if they got permission first, or if they used bodies that were abandoned/forgotten by their people. But sitting on all those stasis pods, just waiting for the occupants to kick the bucket... Eww.

    Edit: I suppose I should've noted that I've not completed the whole thing yet. I am a fairly new player (only 2 weeks as of July 1st), after all.

    Your complain is understandable, as was the case with many other players upon the release of Delta Rising, even though a compromise was indeed reached at the end of the storyarc (even though it took our captain to stand up and slam their fist on the table to finally get the Kobali to quit with their bulls**t).

    Now don't get me wrong : there's little love lost between my crew and the Kobali, and even though i'm the kind of player who enjoys replaying some storyarcs for the sake of it, i can tell that the Kobali storyarc is NOT among them. However, Cryptic pulled it out in a way that i no longer feel really capable of complaining about how things turn out.

    With that said, and even though it's clear Cryptic is not going to change anything to the official arc, let's remember that old Vulcan saying : "Infinites diversity into Infinite combinations", something we can still explore thanks to an awesome tool that is called the Foundry :

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1234486/my-foundry-series-delta-mirror
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    See, whenever I see people going "IDIC *shrug*" regarding the Kobali, I'm always reminded of another famous quotation: "Your right to swing your fist ends where the other man's nose begins." The Kobali demand respect for their culture and preferences but offer none for others'.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    The kobali are continuing to hold noncombatants hostage based on nothing but race, which is objectively wrong.
    Who? Turns out that 99% of the Vaads in stasis are military. Yeah, let them out and they might just shoot you for being not-a-Vaadwaur….
    Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Not relevant. They are not involved in the conflict with the kobali in any way.

    And you can't hold them hostage based on speculation of what they might do, either.
  • lagomorphic#0794 lagomorphic Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    Lots of people are proud of me, my parents, my grandparents, my children, my friends, lots and lots more.

    You also do not and will not ever get to dictate what I say or where I say it.

    Now you, instead of wasting time with this thread, could have just played the arc and you'd have been done before you got the first responses on this thread.

    It's one thing to disagree with someone; it's another to act like a jerk. Please get enough respect for yourself and the other people in this community and try having a productive conversation instead of all negative comments.
  • ashstorm1ashstorm1 Member Posts: 679 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    See, whenever I see people going "IDIC *shrug*" regarding the Kobali, I'm always reminded of another famous quotation: "Your right to swing your fist ends where the other man's nose begins." The Kobali demand respect for their culture and preferences but offer none for others'.

    Actually, i did not pull the "IDIC" argument to defend the Kobali's point of view here. It was on the contrary to emit the idea that there are "infinite realities" out there, including some where roles could very well be reversed (coughs *Mirror Universe* coughs), and where the Kobali would turn out to be religious freaks bent on taking entire planets by force and assimilating their population under the pretext of "saving their souls", yet really just for the sake of perpetuating their own species...
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    ashstorm1 wrote: »
    starswordc wrote: »
    See, whenever I see people going "IDIC *shrug*" regarding the Kobali, I'm always reminded of another famous quotation: "Your right to swing your fist ends where the other man's nose begins." The Kobali demand respect for their culture and preferences but offer none for others'.

    Actually, i did not pull the "IDIC" argument to defend the Kobali's point of view here. It was on the contrary to emit the idea that there are "infinite realities" out there, including some where roles could very well be reversed (coughs *Mirror Universe* coughs), and where the Kobali would turn out to be religious freaks bent on taking entire planets by force and assimilating their population under the pretext of "saving their souls", yet really just for the sake of perpetuating their own species...
    IOW, the borg.
  • usskentuckyusskentucky Member Posts: 402 Arc User
    Clearly, Klingons are the only species with “souls” in the 24th century. If a Klingon was Kobalified it would probably result in an internal battle between the soul of the Klingon Warrior and the Kobali seeking birth. If the Klingon won his or her soul would be expelled from Stovokor and rejoin the living, if it lost, by some off chance or trickery, then the Klingon would remain in Stovokor.
This discussion has been closed.