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Should Vorta and changelings be part of the Dominion faction?

Should Vorta and changelings be part of the Dominion faction? 108 votes

Yes both these races need to be part of the faction
28%
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Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
43%
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Yes to Changelings but no to Vorta.
0%
relicthief 1 vote
No Jemhadar and odo vanguard dar are fine.
26%
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Comments

  • flash525flash525 Member Posts: 5,441 Arc User
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    Vorta yes, though if it was down to me, they'd be limited and as reward Boff's rather than easily obtainable (they're minimal in existence compared to the Jem Hadar anyway). I'm against playable Founders though due to OP circumstances and playable-ness (and dumbing them down would take away the purpose of them).

    Anyone wanting to play as a Founder should just play as an Alien and change their appearance every week.
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  • seriousdaveseriousdave Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    No Jemhadar and odo vanguard dar are fine.
    As of now I'd say no. Vorta can work but defenitley no changelings. Vorta really don't do anything beyond deskwork and preaching so the more hands on approch "we" get to do is pretty far outside their intended purpose. As for the changelings, I just don't see a goverment suddenly deciding to enlist as mere officers under another faction's military branch. Just seems off.
  • disqord#9557 disqord Member Posts: 567 Arc User
    No Jemhadar and odo vanguard dar are fine.
    Vorta don't do anything but communicate the wishes of the Founders. They wouldn't work for player characters.

    Playable Changelings are an absolutely awful idea, and I'm honestly surprised anyone could possibly think otherwise.
  • kjwashingtonkjwashington Member Posts: 2,529 Arc User
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    I think Vorta should be included, but as BOffs only. They should also have traits that discourage their use as away team officers. In all honesty, It's fine if they don't add Vorta, because they can be pretty easily made in the alien gen.

    Changelings don't make any sense for them to be included. Not only did we only ever see like four or five of them in the show, but only one of those was actively leading troops, and only as part of a large invasion force. There's also the issues that they would be too powerful for PCs to use, as well as impossible to code a shape-changing ability for that would satisfy those players.
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  • yakodymyakodym Member Posts: 362 Arc User
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    Changelings might make sense as doffs (advisors) or maybe "combat pets" of sorts - that you could call upon in times of need (either via "Changeling Container" device, or through a "Beam in Changeling support" clicky, or something like we have with "The Doctor" doff - Something like "10% chance to beam in allied Changeling on use of Ketracel White"). At best, as limited BOFFs (where they would work like the changeling ally in the prison facility mission). But making changelings fully playable would amount to making a character with a lot of extra abilities and resistances, which wouldn't be so great.

    Admittedly, picturing a Vorta running around with a Polaron Minigun kicking all sorts of butt does seem a bit out of character... But then again, the whole idea of federation starship captains leading small commandos into life-or-death situations is also out of character, at least from the perspective of the federation as a whole (of course the captains in the show got mixed up in all sorts of action, but those were supposed to be exceptions and it's been said on numerous occasions that it's not a standard protocol for the captain to be a part of an away team).
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    No Jemhadar and odo vanguard dar are fine.
    There is no Dominion faction, there's a jem'hadar origin story.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    No Jemhadar and odo vanguard dar are fine.
    As NPCs, sure. Otherwise, I don't think it really could make sense. It would basically require that every commanding officer in the game is a Changling, because Vorta or Jem'Hadar can't possibly give a Changling any commands and probably wouldn't even dare to suggest a course of action unless prompted. And even among Changlings, it would be strange.

    Basically, all three species would need a very different place in the story and could not really take the same roles in a story arc.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Yes both these races need to be part of the faction
    I would have made the Jem’hadar the f2p option, Vorta the zen store option and Changeling the lifetime member's option.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    No Jemhadar and odo vanguard dar are fine.
    Drinking changelings is bad for your liver. :D
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    Basically, all three species would need a very different place in the story and could not really take the same roles in a story arc.

    Vorta and Jem'Hadar are both biological constructs with limited capacities for self-actualization. They could both make for a compelling story arc [Odo tries to show X there's more to life in the galaxy than subservience] along the same lines (see. Weyoun 6 as well as the Jem'Hadar raised on DS9). If you opt for Jem'Hadar you can be a little more direct about the forms of that subservience but I don't think that can possibly justify omitting an entire character option from an RPG (the differential isn't powerful enough to overcome not-having-Vorta, and is even offset by forcing a very narrowly set species/character choice for use with the new faction.)

    Think of it like a D&D DM saying to everyone "right, I've got a story lined up that works great if you're all young barbarians. You are all young barbarians" We know the game will work with free character choice (the DOM arc includes KDF/ROM/FED and there's no Jem'Hadar tutorial) so why the heavy-handed approach to character choice here (ie. with the Jem'Hadar faction)? It honestly doesn't make sense with what we know at present. Maybe the missions are radically different from a DOM point of view versus FED/KDF/ROM, but if they're not then it's a wasted opportunity.
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    ruinthefun wrote: »
    I think the players as Jem'hadar works best, for the simple reason that we can always have some Vorta push us around, whereas the entire thing wears a bit thin when we have a Fleet Admiral taking instructions from some Lieutenant.
    You mean like how Kar'ukan decided he didn't want to listen to Loriss? You saw how that... displeased the gods.
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    warpangel wrote: »
    There is no Dominion faction, there's a jem'hadar origin story.

    As a matter of fact: that hasn't been confirmed yet. We know there something telling the story of the Jem'Hadar faction but the recent blog states:
    ...and jump right into the current storyline with the release of Victory is Life...new players are recommended to have completed at least the Tutorials available to other factions, to familiarize yourself with the basic controls, concepts, and components of Star Trek Online.

    There's no tutorial and the arc they'll be immediately joining is the same one KDF/ROM/FED players will have access to as well [confirmed on Ten Forward Weekly.] That does still leave room for:
    1. An intro cinematic
    2. Significantly changed objectives/context/NPC interactions for DOM players in ViL missions
    3. Exclusive missions that have yet to be announced (not impossible but not terribly likely)

    2 might impose story constraints around being a Jem'Hadar (an intro cinematic would permit anything desired) but if the missions stay general, barring for a few choice bits of dialog, then those constraints will be self-imposed. A Vorta would have been admissible as well with (IMO) a few small tweaks to what we know now of ViL's setup.
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  • cross821cross821 Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    No Jemhadar and odo vanguard dar are fine.
    If they add Vorta they should miss 97% of their shoots and have a random hold placed on them bc they lock up from fear lol.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,331 Arc User
    No Jemhadar and odo vanguard dar are fine.
    Despite their 'powers', the Vorta are not soldiers.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Despite their 'powers', the Vorta are not soldiers.

    Neither are Jem'Hadar diplomats. We'll still be going to conferences though.

    Also, might want to check on the combat capabilities of Aenar, my boff does seem to be rather proficient for someone who's a canonical pacifist. Female Orions also aren't your typical starship captain (leading through a rigidly defined Klingon command structure) and Pakled were never depicted as being up to the full rigors of a Starfleet Academy training program.

    Big things change and that can make for compelling personal stories. STO has taken advantage of this from day one.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Despite their 'powers', the Vorta are not soldiers.
    Right... Eris was a super-spy who made James Bond look like a chump.
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Despite their 'powers', the Vorta are not soldiers.
    Right... Eris was a super-spy who made James Bond look like a chump.

    And would you trust Keevan not to use a weapon if given one? :tongue:

    To the general thread: circumstance, preference, and their interplay with Jem'Hadar are what kept Vorta out of combat, not an absolute writ that no individual could possibly transgress (even in the limited context of simply staying in character. Killing for personal gain and self-sacrifice were both exhibited by Vorta through DS9.)
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  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,586 Arc User
    No Jemhadar and odo vanguard dar are fine.
    Vorta can make good soldiers, due to their genetically-enhanced nature meaning you can make versions specialized for different roles.

    I'd prefer they kept the Jem'Hadar faction Jem'Hadar-exclusive, though. Keep the 'Battle Vorta' exclusive to the Mirror Universe.
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  • cryptkeeper0cryptkeeper0 Member Posts: 989 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    Vorta could easily use tech to overcome their sight range. They also make good leaders otherwise they wouldn't even interact with Jem'hadar. Or even been given control over them.

    They also from what I can tell as far as the limited scope that we got to see both Jem'hadar and Vorta. Who developed their tech and advanced their sciences, changelings seemed to devote so much time in the great link. I am doubtful they did most of it. So Vorta seem like their scientists and engineers. While Jem'hadar are the labor force and craftsmen, and warriors.

    With the player characters eventually becoming ranks far exceeding captain, those ranks I always saw as a Vorta thing not a Jem'hadar thing. As the only leaders among the Jem'hadar seemed captain rank being that of the first who reported to a Changeling or a Vorta commander. Which they were commanded by the the Vorta.

    Since we are already deviating from canon on Jem'hadar being things other then tactical officers and maybe engineers. As well as reaching a basically fleet admiral rank. Vorta being able to fight on ground missions would hardly break the canon any more.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    Yes both these races need to be part of the faction
    Founders (Changelings), Vorta and Jem'hadar were part and parcel to what controlled the Dominion. But there were tons of races dominated by them, so who knows what the Devs have in store for the faction.

    But, sure, why not add Changelings, Vorta and Jem'hadar.

    Vorta and Jem'hadar is available in the Tailor, already. And I thought I saw the incorrectly formed ears Odo has in the Tailor the other day. I am sure all three can be created on an alien character.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    No Jemhadar and odo vanguard dar are fine.
    It is a "Jem'Hadar" Faction, not a bleeding Vorta or Changling faction or even a Dominion faction.
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  • captainkoltarcaptainkoltar Member Posts: 895 Arc User
    No Jemhadar and odo vanguard dar are fine.
    No. A Jem'Hadar captain with no Gotta influence is much more interesting.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    No Vorta means I won't be playing the new faction at all, I'll just stick with my current aliengen Dominion character. In all honesty Vorta were the only Dominion race I ever found remotely interesting.
    Vorta could easily use tech to overcome their sight range. They also make good leaders otherwise they wouldn't even interact with Jem'hadar. Or even been given control over them.

    [...]

    Since we are already deviating from canon on Jem'hadar being things other then tactical officers and maybe engineers. As well as reaching a basically fleet admiral rank. Vorta being able to fight on ground missions would hardly break the canon any more.

    Or genetic modification could have been used to improve Vorta capabilities.
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  • zanibarzanibar Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    Vorta's have no real problem seeing running around, although all the expected praises to their God the Changelings, could get old! Playing the God (Changelings) doesn't really make alot of sense to me, the again with Odo returning in an apparent role to help this verse out with the Hurq, who knows!
  • ashlotteashlotte Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    Some of you guys really need to T H I N K outside the B O X before you type. :tired_face:

    Vorta are doffs. Vorta can be sent out on missions, often very violent missions to do battle or what have you if you assign them to do so. They're representing the Klingon Empire or the Federation as registered members of those societies through you, their leader.

    What is stopping the Vorta from becoming a captain and calling the shots, as they're quite used to doing?

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Eilas "I do not need the words of the gods to guide me. I am my own master now."

    Changelings, however interesting a concept, would be a bit much... I personally am against it but if Cryptic smells $ nothing will stop them.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    Yes both these races need to be part of the faction
    It is a "Jem'Hadar" Faction, not a bleeding Vorta or Changling faction or even a Dominion faction.

    They asked about a "Dominion Faction".

    Should Vorta and changelings be part of the Dominion faction?
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  • detheaterdetheater Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    Yes to Vorta added but heck no on Changelings.
    I would like to see the Vorta be an unlock once you finish off the gamma reputation to T5 like the Reman and the Romulan reputation.

    With Odo in charge and years of his influence as part of the link I can't imagine that current (ViL) Vorta are not capable of leading and fighting as part of Jem'Hadar strike teams or more prepared to be an "all around" leader like a Starfleet Captain. Since Starfleet (Sisko, Kira, etc...) would have had the biggest influence on what a leader should be in Odo's life. I would imagine that through Odo's influence Vorta and Jem'Hadar are both more autonomous now.

    Being a changeling would probably be a little much, but I think the Vorta should be made a playable species in some way.
  • emily#7094 emily Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    No Jemhadar and odo vanguard dar are fine.
    where2r1 wrote: »
    It is a "Jem'Hadar" Faction, not a bleeding Vorta or Changling faction or even a Dominion faction.

    They asked about a "Dominion Faction".

    Should Vorta and changelings be part of the Dominion faction?

    They asked about "The Dominion Faction". As there is no such faction now or forthcoming, It would be logical to think they were referring to the Jem'Hadaar Faction. For the incoming faction, They should not be a part of it. I would be amenable to doffs and boffs though.
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