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Expansion - Victory is Life! Jem'Hadar, Level 65, Etc.

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  • lighte007lighte007 Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    This must be the most hyped expansion, since LoR, I think.
    Even though it only has 6 episodes for the Jem'hadar faction.
    The Rising of the Delta is the best expansion ever, and people love it to death because it is a good day to die in the endless struggle for supremacy of your own conviction. (A spin off of the Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and all the players love it.)
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    lighte007 wrote: »
    This must be the most hyped expansion, since LoR, I think.
    Even though it only has 6 episodes for the Jem'hadar faction.

    Considering how thin the PvE content has been over the last year or so, it is no surprise that people are getting hyped for it.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • roman1229roman1229 Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    lighte007 wrote: »
    This must be the most hyped expansion, since LoR, I think.
    Even though it only has 6 episodes for the Jem'hadar faction.

    that is the only thing that concerns me.....the number of episodes. 6 to me is too few. 10 would have been better.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    roman1229 wrote: »
    lighte007 wrote: »
    This must be the most hyped expansion, since LoR, I think.
    Even though it only has 6 episodes for the Jem'hadar faction.

    that is the only thing that concerns me.....the number of episodes. 6 to me is too few. 10 would have been better.

    it might be the start, they could add more in later on along with ships and other things. at least build it up enough to be viable, i mean this is the Dominion! it is the largest faction in the GQ and easily had the resources to take on the alliance, by all means it should have something almost in size to the republic in missions, build it up a bit and really make it look threatening as a major power.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    I dunno... I do not feel very excited about the ViL expansion. Maybe I will get more excited the closer we get to it' launcher. Might be due to grinding The Breach.
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,326 Arc User
    roman1229 wrote: »
    lighte007 wrote: »
    This must be the most hyped expansion, since LoR, I think.
    Even though it only has 6 episodes for the Jem'hadar faction.

    that is the only thing that concerns me.....the number of episodes. 6 to me is too few. 10 would have been better.

    it might be the start, they could add more in later on along with ships and other things. at least build it up enough to be viable, i mean this is the Dominion! it is the largest faction in the GQ and easily had the resources to take on the alliance, by all means it should have something almost in size to the republic in missions, build it up a bit and really make it look threatening as a major power.

    Yeah I agree that we will most likely see more missions, maybe not further missions for the new faction, but at least more story missions. Though it is not a Dominion faction actually an is stated as a Jem'hadar faction specifically, which could mean that it will be much smaller along the lines of the toss faction. I don't see much issue with that fact really, and is most likely how they got around the fact of having so many dominion ships in the lockboxes/lobi-store, though I hope we will see more than merely one race choice for the faction (and a good amount of customization in the race choices too.). I will say I am more interested in what the recruit event will be.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,613 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    it might be the start, they could add more in later on along with ships and other things. at least build it up enough to be viable, i mean this is the Dominion! it is the largest faction in the GQ and easily had the resources to take on the alliance, by all means it should have something almost in size to the republic in missions, build it up a bit and really make it look threatening as a major power.

    The first caveat to the "six episode" thing is that it indeed does not preclude further episodes from being released prior to the next season. No details about how the "Victory of Life" content window will play out have been released.

    Secondly, the total number of episodes is six. This includes at least one multi-faction mission to continue on from Scylla and Charybis (and make the ten cameos accessible to more than just one mini-faction. Would seem like a waste to have these people all exclusively interact with a Jem'Hadar player captain. :tongue:) One note of caution I'll sound is that we don't know if the Jem'Hadar will have any exclusive episodes. These have not been explicitly confirmed in PR or Ten Forward, IIRC.

    For all we know, they may only have an intro sequence or cinematic which places them at a point where they can immediately start working on the multi-faction episodes. It depends on how they're written and implemented. Alternatively, the six episodes could be multi-faction but from a Jem'Hadar perspective (with dialog tweaks or alternate objectives, similar to the first mission of the 2800 series) these could also serve as an intro arc.

    We will have to see, but in the meantime people should be careful about setting specific expectations for exactly the content setup will be in the upcoming expansion. We don't have the details yet.

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  • lighte007lighte007 Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    Out of everything, even though they couldn't really talk about things, the Ten Forward was hilarious. Mostly that T6 Vorta Joke, let's all tie up tons of vortas and make a starship. :P

    I do like what they are doing with the Jem'hadar faction as a whole, mostly they are doing something similar to with what another mmo did with two of their classes aka higher level starting points. 60 was the old cap, and now we get 65.

    You can probably tell, which game I am referencing in that. It's going to be a pretty fun, June playing ViL.
    The Rising of the Delta is the best expansion ever, and people love it to death because it is a good day to die in the endless struggle for supremacy of your own conviction. (A spin off of the Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and all the players love it.)
  • masterfiretrollmasterfiretroll Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    Very disappointed Jem'Hadar Boo = Fail

    Would have rather had PVP expansion

    Fix the PVP you have Ship's moving At beyond game breaking speeds in game...
    only + is lvl cap rest is fail
  • storulesstorules Member Posts: 3,208 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @storules said:
    > protoneous wrote: »
    >
    > warpangel wrote: »
    >
    > And Delta Rising driving off "a lot of people" is an unsubstantiated myth.
    >
    >
    >
    > "It was the best expansion ever and the players loved it". Given the quotes author it must be true.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Hahaha...Old DR...players Loved it so much they Stopped playing. I'm sure ViL will not be like that since the expectations are the LOWEST Ever. Only 6 episodes and a watershed faction. At least the information is honest and upfront instead of hyping claims as it was with DR.

    Very few people stopped playing, some butthurt exploiters started a propaganda flame campaign to make it seem like a significant thing, but it wasn't. As for claims that expectations for ViL are low, thats just laughable, this thread alone shows that.

    That's your own opinion...just do a goggle search for what was said previously and see number of returns for it.
    Also to put in perspective the amount of content tie with every expansion one does not need to go far than Wiki:

    F2P Blogs showing NEW content 1-26
    LoR number of information and blogs: Blogs from 1-48...all related to NEW content:
    Delta Rising number of information Blogs 1-4 only then switched to strictly RP blogs
    AOY switched to RP blogs only
    ViL no Dev blogs and only 1 informational so far....

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Developer_Blogs#Legacy_of_Romulus_Dev_Blogs

    If one compares the amount of content and information from devs from each past expansion compare to this last one this is the lowest so far. Past expansions were much more elaborate than what we get today.
    What is laughable are new players that start playing STO and think this is how things have been always around here. I do give ample credit again to STO for being upfront in what is coming up and understand perhaps there will never be anything similar to LoR expansion and we take what we can.​​
    tumblr_ncbngkt24X1ry46hlo1_400.gif
  • bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 817 Arc User
    lighte007 wrote: »
    This must be the most hyped expansion, since LoR, I think.
    Even though it only has 6 episodes for the Jem'hadar faction.

    Players are so desperate for anything new that are deemed to get their hands in any new stuff. In perspective this should be at most a 0.5 update rather than an expansion if you compare to LoR or even DR. then again AoY was almost as laughable in terms of new stuff.​​
    Wiki editor http://sto.gamepedia.com
    Original STO beta tester.
  • masterfiretrollmasterfiretroll Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    well as I do own all the Delta Rising stuff. and I fell I was burned by DR
    I enjoy most of ships visually.

    as for this the ViL I thank it will fail. And I will not be give up any cash for VIL items or ships
    A few of the people will enjoy it. But most like my self will not enjoy it.
    I don't care for Dominion at all for me this is =Fail

    PVP needs To be FIX ships are out running torpedo's in space combat
    to point the speed mechanics is broken
    how can somebody fight when torpedo's can't catch the target.

    I don't believe me look it up.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 4,531 Arc User
    lordgyor wrote: »
    It occurs to me that the Cardassian Flight Deck Cruiser we saw could be the Jem'hadar version of the Allied Flight Deck Assault Cruiser Bundle.

    In which case we have a pretty good idea of what it's stats will be (five forward weapons for example). Even it's pets might be a Polaron/Cardassian version of the Cutpurse(Orion)/Veil (Orion)Fighters.

    Possibly but it's worth pointing out that the Cardassians are a neutral faction in STO. Their ships could be plausibly offered to the FED, ROM, and KDF; making them the equilvanet of the 31st century time ships in the upcoming Victory is Life bundle.

    I could swear blind I have seen Cardies in Federation uniforms.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    tigeraries wrote: »
    I wouldnt worry about T7 till they raise the level cap to 70. L50=T5, xpan bumped level to 60=T6.


    Ergo, level 65=T7U :smiley:

    100% NOT happening.
    kyle223cat wrote: »
    look - what is wrong with coming out with a newer version of a ship that is slightly more powerful every year or two? I mean Apple and Samsung do it regularly with a $1000 phone - and there are line-ups of people throwing money at them for 2% better performance in app loading time!

    Problem is people invested a lot in T6 ships, including ones that were just T6 versions of T5 ships we already had. Coming out with a new tier would just make everyone feel like they have to upgrade to the next tier, especially if they released T7 versions of the T6 ships that we already had T5 versions of. I think most people are fond of the idea that T6 stays the highest tier and we just keep building on the list of that tier of ships rather than going up another tier again.

    With companies like Apple, they make real world, high-end products that are super important and useful in every day life. You can do so many different things with them. Same with other companies like Microsoft and Samsung. People are obviously willing to pay $600-$1000 for an iPhone or iPad and upwards of $2,500 for a Mac, which is shown by Apple's enormous sales figures and the fact that they're the most valuable company in the world. However, I won't disagree with you on the app loading times statement. While in theory the speed of iPhones has been increasing drastically each year, the average person doesn't really notice a difference unless they're upgrading from an iPhone 5 to a X. I have an iPhone 6s and it runs fine still. Most people will pay a lot for a smartphone but I don't think most people would want to pay $35-$40 for C-Store ships. I know $30 is my limit.

    But my analogy is still kind of correct - even if they came out with a T7 or a T6u -( lets face it the MW with a extra universal slot and more hull is kind of a t6u in an ugly disguise), it's the same as the phone - you can do virtually everything just fine with a iPhone 7 vs an iphone 8. Same with the ships - there is no content in the game that can't be done on a T5u.

    Actually, on my main I like to use my T1 NX as much as possible where it comes to episodes. For STF's, T4 upwards are viable on advanced with the right equipment.
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @storules said:
    > protoneous wrote: »
    >
    > warpangel wrote: »
    >
    > And Delta Rising driving off "a lot of people" is an unsubstantiated myth.
    >
    >
    >
    > "It was the best expansion ever and the players loved it". Given the quotes author it must be true.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Hahaha...Old DR...players Loved it so much they Stopped playing. I'm sure ViL will not be like that since the expectations are the LOWEST Ever. Only 6 episodes and a watershed faction. At least the information is honest and upfront instead of hyping claims as it was with DR.​​

    Very few people stopped playing, some butthurt exploiters started a propaganda flame campaign to make it seem like a significant thing, but it wasn't. As for claims that expectations for ViL are low, thats just laughable, this thread alone shows that.

    Absolutely my thoughts too. I played that content, and I loved it. I was not impressed at the complaints about it being too hard, as I handled it fine in my T5U Intrepid, and I thought the Patrol side-missions were excellent.

    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 817 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    lordgyor wrote: »
    It occurs to me that the Cardassian Flight Deck Cruiser we saw could be the Jem'hadar version of the Allied Flight Deck Assault Cruiser Bundle.

    In which case we have a pretty good idea of what it's stats will be (five forward weapons for example). Even it's pets might be a Polaron/Cardassian version of the Cutpurse(Orion)/Veil (Orion)Fighters.

    Possibly but it's worth pointing out that the Cardassians are a neutral faction in STO. Their ships could be plausibly offered to the FED, ROM, and KDF; making them the equilvanet of the 31st century time ships in the upcoming Victory is Life bundle.

    I could swear blind I have seen Cardies in Federation uniforms.
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    tigeraries wrote: »
    I wouldnt worry about T7 till they raise the level cap to 70. L50=T5, xpan bumped level to 60=T6.


    Ergo, level 65=T7U :smiley:

    100% NOT happening.
    kyle223cat wrote: »
    look - what is wrong with coming out with a newer version of a ship that is slightly more powerful every year or two? I mean Apple and Samsung do it regularly with a $1000 phone - and there are line-ups of people throwing money at them for 2% better performance in app loading time!

    Problem is people invested a lot in T6 ships, including ones that were just T6 versions of T5 ships we already had. Coming out with a new tier would just make everyone feel like they have to upgrade to the next tier, especially if they released T7 versions of the T6 ships that we already had T5 versions of. I think most people are fond of the idea that T6 stays the highest tier and we just keep building on the list of that tier of ships rather than going up another tier again.

    With companies like Apple, they make real world, high-end products that are super important and useful in every day life. You can do so many different things with them. Same with other companies like Microsoft and Samsung. People are obviously willing to pay $600-$1000 for an iPhone or iPad and upwards of $2,500 for a Mac, which is shown by Apple's enormous sales figures and the fact that they're the most valuable company in the world. However, I won't disagree with you on the app loading times statement. While in theory the speed of iPhones has been increasing drastically each year, the average person doesn't really notice a difference unless they're upgrading from an iPhone 5 to a X. I have an iPhone 6s and it runs fine still. Most people will pay a lot for a smartphone but I don't think most people would want to pay $35-$40 for C-Store ships. I know $30 is my limit.

    But my analogy is still kind of correct - even if they came out with a T7 or a T6u -( lets face it the MW with a extra universal slot and more hull is kind of a t6u in an ugly disguise), it's the same as the phone - you can do virtually everything just fine with a iPhone 7 vs an iphone 8. Same with the ships - there is no content in the game that can't be done on a T5u.

    Actually, on my main I like to use my T1 NX as much as possible where it comes to episodes. For STF's, T4 upwards are viable on advanced with the right equipment.
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @storules said:
    > protoneous wrote: »
    >
    > warpangel wrote: »
    >
    > And Delta Rising driving off "a lot of people" is an unsubstantiated myth.
    >
    >
    >
    > "It was the best expansion ever and the players loved it". Given the quotes author it must be true.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Hahaha...Old DR...players Loved it so much they Stopped playing. I'm sure ViL will not be like that since the expectations are the LOWEST Ever. Only 6 episodes and a watershed faction. At least the information is honest and upfront instead of hyping claims as it was with DR.

    Very few people stopped playing, some butthurt exploiters started a propaganda flame campaign to make it seem like a significant thing, but it wasn't. As for claims that expectations for ViL are low, thats just laughable, this thread alone shows that.

    Absolutely my thoughts too. I played that content, and I loved it. I was not impressed at the complaints about it being too hard, as I handled it fine in my T5U Intrepid, and I thought the Patrol side-missions were excellent.

    Did you also play LoR and AoY? any comparisons on those two or you just joined when DR launched?​​
    Wiki editor http://sto.gamepedia.com
    Original STO beta tester.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,613 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    I could swear blind I have seen Cardies in Federation uniforms.

    As a player character, maybe. Cardassian parts are available in the alien tailor. However, when allied Cardassians have appeared officially they've been wearing Cardassian uniforms (ex. Iconian war cut scenes.) They have not joined the Federation.
    Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
    Last missions:
    Evolution's Smile [SSF:3-3]
    Epoch, Part 2 [AEI]
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    Looking for something new to play? The interactive Foundry Mission Database has you covered.
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,326 Arc User
    I could go for this recruit event being based around the Cardassians sending members to the alliance, and joining the main three factions as a race choice. Those Cardassians that were apart of the Military prior to the fall might leave after feeling persecuted by their own people (or the new government), or merely wishing to put their expertise to use the best way possible. While other Cardassians might just want to get off their homeworld after the events of the Dominion war.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,270 Arc User
    djf021 wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @protoneous said:
    > jonsills wrote: »
    >
    > somtaawkhar wrote: »
    >
    > evilmark444 wrote: »
    >
    > So no new content for existing characters ... can't say I'm surprised after AoY's underwhelming amount of content.
    >
    >
    >
    > Literally what? Where are you pulling this **** from?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > The same Well of Whining that claimed people hated LoR, and that provides the constant claim that our sister game Champions Online is "dying".
    >
    >
    >
    > LoR? Wasn't it Delta Rising that cost the game so many players? LoR was a good time for the game whereas DR had huge XP gaps, a massive enemy difficulty increase amongst other things. According to one dev though it was the best expansion ever and the players loved it.

    Most of the complaints about DR were made up overblown whining dramatics that had zero actual basis.

    I've been wondering about this and can't help but think you are correct. I keep seeing people making all these claims about how "a lot of the player base left last time", etc but I have to wonder: how can a player actually know that? Maybe I just don't know; perhaps that kind of info on player numbers can be datamined...but I think it's more likely folks are just blowing their own displeasure way out of proportion.
    Were you actually playing the game regularly before, during, and after DR? Trends don't always have to be data mined to be correct. Heck there's even a reference to DR in the latest Tribble patch notes thread, with additional references in other threads over the past few weeks. It has nothing to do with folks blowing their own displeasure out of proportion. I think what's overblown is the reactions to each negative reference to DR, an expansion that I personally enjoyed many parts of.

  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,247 Community Moderator
    Most of the harder hitting bits of info weren't released until the expac was just about here. LoR, DR, AoY, are all examples of this. ViL will probably be no different. Right now we've only had one info release so far. Give it time for more info to come out and we'll have more answers to some of the questions here.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,367 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »

    Very few people stopped playing, ....


    And you know this how, exactly?! You do see the irony of making such a similar bold claim, right?!

    I'm firmly in the 'DR drove ppl away en masse' camp. And at least 'my' camp has something to go on, to corroborate the claim. The queues, for one. It wasn't called 'Dilithium Rising' for nothing: half the DR missions were a joke (like 'Do 5 Delta Quadrant patrols', and horrific, unskippable Vaudwaar ground missions), and the initial Upgrade system was Brutal, with basically ALL your top gear having become sub-par overnight. The brutal Upgrade system came at a time when Asian MMO makers in general had adopted the 'whale' policy: i.e.: instead of going broad, dependent on many players with small(er) wallets, MMO were choosing to be carried by just a few whales.

    And what proof exists for the sharp drop in players!? None, in the absolute; like none exists for your assertion that 'Very few people stopped playing.' But right after DR, the queues were suddenly dead. I mean, truly dead (more dead than they are to-date, even). When was the last time again you queued and played for 'Federation Fleet Alert'?! Dead queues are consistent with basic Economics: if the cost of product suddenly goes up tenfold, then a sharp drop in customers is only the logical result.

    Things are not as bad any more as they were at the time of DR, btw. The Upgrade system has become much friendlier (if, for nothing else, because ppl have pretty much upgraded evertything they needed by now). None of us has the actual numbers, but 'DR drove ppl away en masse' is a far more plausible, well-reasoned position than your angry 'Very few people stopped playing' statement you just seem to have pulled out of thin air.
    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,950 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »

    Very few people stopped playing, ....


    And you know this how, exactly?! You do see the irony of making such a similar bold claim, right?!

    I'm firmly in the 'DR drove ppl away en masse' camp. And at least 'my' camp has something to go on, to corroborate the claim. The queues, for one. It wasn't called 'Dilithium Rising' for nothing: half the DR missions were a joke (like 'Do 5 Delta Quadrant patrols', and horrific, unskippable Vaudwaar ground missions), and the initial Upgrade system was Brutal, with basically ALL your top gear having become sub-par overnight. The brutal Upgrade system came at a time when Asian MMO makers in general had adopted the 'whale' policy: i.e.: instead of going broad, dependent on many players with small(er) wallets, MMO were choosing to be carried by just a few whales.

    And what proof exists for the sharp drop in players!? None, in the absolute; like none exists for your assertion that 'Very few people stopped playing.' But right after DR, the queues were suddenly dead. I mean, truly dead (more dead than they are to-date, even). When was the last time again you queued and played for 'Federation Fleet Alert'?! Dead queues are consistent with basic Economics: if the cost of product suddenly goes up tenfold, then a sharp drop in customers is only the logical result.

    Things are not as bad any more as they were at the time of DR, btw. The Upgrade system has become much friendlier (if, for nothing else, because ppl have pretty much upgraded evertything they needed by now). None of us has the actual numbers, but 'DR drove ppl away en masse' is a far more plausible, well-reasoned position than your angry 'Very few people stopped playing' statement you just seem to have pulled out of thin air.

    Have you considered an alternate explanation? Perhaps that the queues were dead because the majority of us who don't have ten hours a day to play the game were busy playing the expansion instead of the queues? It's not like you can send a toon through an STF and a story mission simultaneously, after all.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,249 Arc User
    > @starswordc said:
    > meimeitoo wrote: »
    >
    > azrael605 wrote: »
    >
    >
    > Very few people stopped playing, ....
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > And you know this how, exactly?! You do see the irony of making such a similar bold claim, right?!
    >
    > I'm firmly in the 'DR drove ppl away en masse' camp. And at least 'my' camp has something to go on, to corroborate the claim. The queues, for one. It wasn't called 'Dilithium Rising' for nothing: half the DR missions were a joke (like 'Do 5 Delta Quadrant patrols', and horrific, unskippable Vaudwaar ground missions), and the initial Upgrade system was Brutal, with basically ALL your top gear having become sub-par overnight. The brutal Upgrade system came at a time when Asian MMO makers in general had adopted the 'whale' policy: i.e.: instead of going broad, dependent on many players with small(er) wallets, MMO were choosing to be carried by just a few whales.
    >
    > And what proof exists for the sharp drop in players!? None, in the absolute; like none exists for your assertion that 'Very few people stopped playing.' But right after DR, the queues were suddenly dead. I mean, truly dead (more dead than they are to-date, even). When was the last time again you queued and played for 'Federation Fleet Alert'?! Dead queues are consistent with basic Economics: if the cost of product suddenly goes up tenfold, then a sharp drop in customers is only the logical result.
    >
    > Things are not as bad any more as they were at the time of DR, btw. The Upgrade system has become much friendlier (if, for nothing else, because ppl have pretty much upgraded evertything they needed by now). None of us has the actual numbers, but 'DR drove ppl away en masse' is a far more plausible, well-reasoned position than your angry 'Very few people stopped playing' statement you just seem to have pulled out of thin air.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Have you considered an alternate explanation? Perhaps that the queues were dead because the majority of us who don't have ten hours a day to play the game were busy playing the expansion instead of the queues? It's not like you can send a toon through an STF and a story mission simultaneously, after all.

    Now now. Can't use logic.
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,367 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »

    Very few people stopped playing, ....


    And you know this how, exactly?! You do see the irony of making such a similar bold claim, right?!

    I'm firmly in the 'DR drove ppl away en masse' camp. And at least 'my' camp has something to go on, to corroborate the claim. The queues, for one. It wasn't called 'Dilithium Rising' for nothing: half the DR missions were a joke (like 'Do 5 Delta Quadrant patrols', and horrific, unskippable Vaudwaar ground missions), and the initial Upgrade system was Brutal, with basically ALL your top gear having become sub-par overnight. The brutal Upgrade system came at a time when Asian MMO makers in general had adopted the 'whale' policy: i.e.: instead of going broad, dependent on many players with small(er) wallets, MMO were choosing to be carried by just a few whales.

    And what proof exists for the sharp drop in players!? None, in the absolute; like none exists for your assertion that 'Very few people stopped playing.' But right after DR, the queues were suddenly dead. I mean, truly dead (more dead than they are to-date, even). When was the last time again you queued and played for 'Federation Fleet Alert'?! Dead queues are consistent with basic Economics: if the cost of product suddenly goes up tenfold, then a sharp drop in customers is only the logical result.

    Things are not as bad any more as they were at the time of DR, btw. The Upgrade system has become much friendlier (if, for nothing else, because ppl have pretty much upgraded evertything they needed by now). None of us has the actual numbers, but 'DR drove ppl away en masse' is a far more plausible, well-reasoned position than your angry 'Very few people stopped playing' statement you just seem to have pulled out of thin air.

    Have you considered an alternate explanation? Perhaps that the queues were dead because the majority of us who don't have ten hours a day to play the game were busy playing the expansion instead of the queues? It's not like you can send a toon through an STF and a story mission simultaneously, after all.


    You gotta be kidding me!? The queues stayed dead, long, long after ppl had time to play the expansion. Besides, since when, ever, where queues found to be utterly dead after an expansion?! Like never, prior to DR. People generally queue a bit less when an expansion has just been released, or an event even; but when LoR came around, queues certainly weren't massively dead, either.

    Were there possible other reasons for the sharp decline in players queueing? Possibly. But Occam's Razor still applies: that if the cost of product suddenly goes up tenfold, then a sharp drop in customers is to be expected. I have yet to hear a more plausible reason.
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  • iamynaughtiamynaught Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    jaguarskx wrote: »
    I dunno... I do not feel very excited about the ViL expansion. Maybe I will get more excited the closer we get to it' launcher. Might be due to grinding The Breach.

    I was about to say the exact same thing. Including blaming the Breach.

    Initially was was pretty psyched about the Expansion, then the whole level cap increase and the Jem'Hadar starting at lvl 60 stuff came out and I have to say, it kinda killed it for me. I still look forward to it, and I WILL play it but for now it's just kinda 'meh' for me.

    Still time before the launch and I'm sure once more details are brought to light I'll get excited again. I'll just wait and see.
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  • jtoney3448jtoney3448 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    Well about the Fed Cardassians, I made one right after the game launched using alien gen. You cant get the neck quite right but you can make a very close to Cardassian character. He is my DS9 character with Defiant, Dominion, and Cardassian ships.

    So your eyes havent been lying to you, I have mwhahahahaha.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Well as far as what they do with the new ships - it is probably a given that they will come more powerful than existing ones. Some special power/seating/console etc Idon't think they will be as game changing as when they did LOR, but you never know. They could even come with battle cloak!! Jem Hadar took lots of rommie ships during the failed invasion, plus the Jem hadar have personal cloaks. They have lots of experience with cloaking tech now.
    Well, they apparently developed anti-cloak tech BEFORE meeting the Feds, KDF or Roms....

    One thing that was VERY conspicuous in the livestream was that all questions about the list of races were answered(IF they got answered) with something along the lines of "One of them is Jem'Hadar". It was never said that was the only race, but not what else.
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  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,613 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    meimeitoo wrote: »


    Were there possible other reasons for the sharp decline in players queueing? Possibly. But Occam's Razor still applies: that if the cost of product suddenly goes up tenfold, then a sharp drop in customers is to be expected. I have yet to hear a more plausible reason.

    After the expansion queue fail states were introduced. Remember this whole saga?
    http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/9358023-star-trek-online:-adv.-queue-changes

    Inferring total population figures from queue activity is not the execution of Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is that people didn't want to play queues as much as they used to. It's a logical leap to say they weren't playing the game as well. Remember that the alternatives to queues saw large content updates. In addition, steep XP requirements were emphasizing mission replay; queues were not a good source and neither were they the exclusive source of the latest reputation marks (both patrols and the Kobali zone included easier to grind alternatives.) Then, you have the subsequent changes to queue objectives which continued the downward pressure, in addition to the introduction of the 100-1 rep mark/elite mark conversion (coupled to the daily bonus.) Altogether, you have an ecosystem that dramatically reduced the emphasis on queue grinding. To then say "no, people were bailing en mass" is simply confirmation bias. There's multiple factors contributing to a drop in public PVE activity and you're only considering the one that conforms to a favored hypothesis.

    What this means is that you don't have the argumentative force to shout people down who disagree with the "nay" camp on Delta Rising (in a thread three+ years later about the second expansion on). There is zero provability about this, we literally do not have the data to quantify either the direction or the magnitude of the population changes around DR. The point there: let's drop the subject. Regardless of what the numbers were, Victory is Life is not bringing about any of the contentious changes that were course corrected after Delta Rising (ie. NPC health scaling and XP requirements.)
    Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,160 Arc User
    I won't be making a Jem Hadar. and for the same reason i don't have a Gorn or Naussican or Leathean..
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