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PVP-Just hear me out here..This aint a poll or TRIBBLE like that..

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  • tfomegatfomega Member Posts: 812 Arc User
    salvation4 wrote: »

    Now from my main post I in no way said KILL PVP (If you cant improve it why bother going further?), If I did say KILL PvP then I I wouldnt have given the options to improve it...

    "To NOT improve it:
    -REMOVE IT AND SAVE GAME RESOURCES!!"

    You gave 2 options.. improve it or remove it (i.e. kill it)

    No third option like giving PvPers their own server separate from PvE
    No fourth option like "leave it the way it is and not remove it"

    Essentially, since Cryptic has done very little with PvP for 8 years.. its more likely, based on historical, patterned behavior, that they would not improve it, which effectively makes your alternative "remove it and save game resources" the most likely outcome. That is.. if we were to go with the limited options you presented.


    I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
    MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
  • kyle223catkyle223cat Member Posts: 584 Arc User
    I've always thought about this idea: is there any way of putting an earlier version of STO on a different server and making that the place where people can do PvP? Honestly Season 7, 8, or 9 was a great time for PvP. I wonder if they could put Season 9 STO on another server, like they did a few years back with the early version of the game for April Fools.
    da84303d8bc4080b9860968f634f98682215bbe5.gifv
  • esistziipesistziip Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited March 2018
    "I'm revelant." -Forumite, 2018
    screeeennnnnnnnnnnnnn3co8o.png
  • tfomegatfomega Member Posts: 812 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »

    If pvp was completely removed it would barely be a blip on the radar interms of financial impact. The biggest revenue source for STO is master keys, removing pvp won't have any noticable effect on key sales. Pvp people need to get over this delusion that they are actually important to this game, you aren't, deal with it.

    please cite where you got this information.


    I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
    MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    There are a few major glaring problems in PVP. If these two were addressed, everything else would be workable, IMO:

    1.) There are too many ways to ignore shields and armor resistances. Tacs are way out of hand with this, Sci a bit less so. This is even more problematic when damage boosts are addictive and stack, whereas resistances have diminishing returns as they're calculated multiplicatively.

    Simply said, there is no way to justify giving a class of players the ability to be able to easily do spikes in excess of 500K damage against another class of player, while simultaneously ignoring all of that player's shields and resists.


    >>>There is a Competitive Reputation consumable to stop weapon damage bleedthrough in the Competitive Rep store for Dilithium, but few seem to know about it, and it doesn't address Resist-ignoring damage.<<<


    2.) Pilot ships have no drawbacks. If you're a Tac in a cloaking pilot ship, with virtually zero skill and easily obtainable equipment and traits, you can pump out spikes of damage 5x that of a true tank's hitpoints, ignore their shields and armor, you can tank the damage being returned to them, and they can evade all snares and roots, and disappear. They can essentially roll their faces over the keyboard and never die.


    >>>This is why Cold Hearted is an unforgivably OP trait. The Devs gave an enormous boost to the one class of players who didn't need it.<<<


    It's bad game design in general, and it's likely never going to change. They had a chance earlier this year, but a lot of things were rolled back due to the eTears of Faceroll Tacs, and a lot of things weren't even addressed.

    It seems pretty clear to me either our Lead Dev or Executive Producer must be a huge fan of that one season of Deep Space 9 that was Diet Star Wars with the Defiant zooming around like David amongst a bunch of Goliaths, and chooses to ignore that every other series and film of Star Trek involved highly strategic naval combat. So, without major changes up top, I think this is what we've got to work with for better or worse, our PVP is mostly just Diet Star Wars.

    Just bringing this great post back from a thread that got moved. Sums up everything
  • kamagam31kamagam31 Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    Tac's are not Overdog is Sci Captains that rule PvP since like for ever. You just made obvious that you are > @tremere12 said:
    > vampeiyre wrote: »
    >
    > There are a few major glaring problems in PVP. If these two were addressed, everything else would be workable, IMO:
    >
    > 1.) There are too many ways to ignore shields and armor resistances. Tacs are way out of hand with this, Sci a bit less so. This is even more problematic when damage boosts are addictive and stack, whereas resistances have diminishing returns as they're calculated multiplicatively.
    >
    > Simply said, there is no way to justify giving a class of players the ability to be able to easily do spikes in excess of 500K damage against another class of player, while simultaneously ignoring all of that player's shields and resists.
    >
    >
    > >>>There is a Competitive Reputation consumable to stop weapon damage bleedthrough in the Competitive Rep store for Dilithium, but few seem to know about it, and it doesn't address Resist-ignoring damage.<<<
    >
    >
    > 2.) Pilot ships have no drawbacks. If you're a Tac in a cloaking pilot ship, with virtually zero skill and easily obtainable equipment and traits, you can pump out spikes of damage 5x that of a true tank's hitpoints, ignore their shields and armor, you can tank the damage being returned to them, and they can evade all snares and roots, and disappear. They can essentially roll their faces over the keyboard and never die.
    >
    >
    > >>>This is why Cold Hearted is an unforgivably OP trait. The Devs gave an enormous boost to the one class of players who didn't need it.<<<
    >
    >
    > It's bad game design in general, and it's likely never going to change. They had a chance earlier this year, but a lot of things were rolled back due to the eTears of Faceroll Tacs, and a lot of things weren't even addressed.
    >
    > It seems pretty clear to me either our Lead Dev or Executive Producer must be a huge fan of that one season of Deep Space 9 that was Diet Star Wars with the Defiant zooming around like David amongst a bunch of Goliaths, and chooses to ignore that every other series and film of Star Trek involved highly strategic naval combat. So, without major changes up top, I think this is what we've got to work with for better or worse, our PVP is mostly just Diet Star Wars.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Just bringing this great post back from a thread that got moved. Sums up everything

    Tac's are not Overdog is Sci Captains that rule PvP since like for ever. You just made obvious that you represent the nerf Tac Agenda
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    kamagam31 wrote: »


    Tac's are not Overdog is Sci Captains that rule PvP since like for ever. You just made obvious that you represent the nerf Tac Agenda

    Coming here with your 13 posts and throwing the words "agenda" like some 12 year old, without giving any argument. Grats pal.

  • kamagam31kamagam31 Member Posts: 14 Arc User

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Coming here with your 13 posts and throwing the words "agenda" like some 12 year old, without giving any argument. Grats pal.

    My age is not your concern. I do not post much because I am not native english speaker. I follow since 2012 the sto Forums so I am aware that just before Tacs got nerfed heavely not long ago there where a lot of crybabys complaining about the Damagedealer class actualy doing damage, thus Agenda
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    kamagam31 wrote: »
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Coming here with your 13 posts and throwing the words "agenda" like some 12 year old, without giving any argument. Grats pal.

    My age is not your concern. I do not post much because I am not native english speaker. I follow since 2012 the sto Forums so I am aware that just before Tacs got nerfed heavely not long ago there where a lot of crybabys complaining about the Damagedealer class actualy doing damage, thus Agenda

    Who is using the word nerfs here? The classes are fine, heck even the DHC damage is fine as far as I'm concerned. The problem is that tanks get vaped too fast not necessarily because of the actual damage being done, but because of so much garbage that bypasses their speciality, namely HP, dmg resistance and Shields - thus rendering them useless, unless they go full heal, and retire whatever dps they have left.

    My suggestion wasn't to nerf anybody, but just make cruisers (and possibly engineers) somehow tougher. Beams are also rather c'rappy in PvP now, and I advocate also that BO and FAW would be returned to their previous states, so that "cruisers" would at least hit back a bit.

    I play all classes from all factions and have all kinds of builds, so I'm not partial to any class really. However the fact remains that cruisers/engineers are at the bottom of the foodchain right now.
  • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    tfomega wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »

    If pvp was completely removed it would barely be a blip on the radar interms of financial impact. The biggest revenue source for STO is master keys, removing pvp won't have any noticable effect on key sales. Pvp people need to get over this delusion that they are actually important to this game, you aren't, deal with it.

    please cite where you got this information.

    hm, It may take a while to dig up ALL of the various interviews, developer tweets, blog posts and Developer issued posts explaining this state of affairs, but the upshot is, PvP was abandonware back in 2011, and the record shows that involvement with, speaking courteously to, or openly engaging with members of the PvP community is a great way to tell Management at Cryptic that you'd really like to work somewhere else, please. there's practically a deadpool out there betting on how long it's going to take CrypticSpartan to "Has left Cryptic Studios under amicable conditions we swear (and his NDA won't let him discuss it so NYAHHH!!" posting.

    as has happened with 100% of developers prior to CrypticSpartan being in any way, shape or form interested in, or communicating in a civilized non-hostile manner with, PvP.

    We're on seven or eight years of it being career suicide to do anything but mock, make fun of, tease, or hide from pvp at Cryptic studios.

    when you add in statements from Geko on Priority One about it, or that the activity wasn't even considered, much less a priority after the departure of Gozer, or that the main driver for removing factional queues was to eliminate maps by consolidating them, or that in eight years we've gotten two additional maps and one of them bombed so hard it might as well not exist within a week (and was more or less the tech demonstrator for RvB'ing the queues in the first place)...

    the audience is microscopic-most of the PvP community left the game in winter 2014/2015, when D'Angelo went from "power creep" to "**** it, dump everything on to the server without testing!!!"

    Nobody in a position to make decisions at Cryptic studios even wants PvP to exist. They're stuck with it because it was part of the original build proposal they inherited from Atari.

    it's been a pretty uniformly dedicated effort over the last eight years to push players AWAY from PvP. There were more PvP players as a raw quantity in 2011-2013, with less accounts registered over-all, than there are currently as either raw numbers, or percentage of players.

    and this is by design and by intent. it's an audience that is seen as "Deplorable", not desirable, there is zero interest in or support of, PvP at the decision making level at Cryptic Studios, and if they could unsnarl and untangle it from the root code of the game without breaking the servers, they would.

    get it through your head; if you want to PvP, the devs don't want you here.

    For similar reasons, they hate the KDF as a faction too. But the fact remains they created it themselves, and basically hate their own invention.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,292 Community Moderator
    patrickngo wrote: »
    funny man. Subnuke does exactly jack and **** vs. NPC's, and PvE doesn't require turn rate, it only requires BFAW or equivalent area of effect weapons.

    Actually... Subnuc is still relavent in PvE because it STRIPS BUFFS. I use it quite a bit on my Sci character in PvE when I don't want a Torp Spread, High Yield, or BFAW coming at me. Or if the sphere I wanna shoot is trying to EPtE away... Subnuc.

    As for the BFAW line... that's a symptom of the current DPS Meta. Not everyone follows the Meta. Do I use BFAW? Every once in a while, generally BFAW 1 combined with maybe a couple other abilities. But I personally don't see it as the end all ability.

    Years ago the Meta was Escorts Online, with cannon spam. Then with LoR it became Romulans Online because SRO BOffs and uber crit. Now its BFAW that is the current Meta.

    Meta is boring because unless you fly a cookie cutter build, it doesn't get you the deeps.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,624 Arc User
    tremere12 wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    tfomega wrote: »
    azrael605 wrote: »

    If pvp was completely removed it would barely be a blip on the radar interms of financial impact. The biggest revenue source for STO is master keys, removing pvp won't have any noticable effect on key sales. Pvp people need to get over this delusion that they are actually important to this game, you aren't, deal with it.

    please cite where you got this information.

    hm, It may take a while to dig up ALL of the various interviews, developer tweets, blog posts and Developer issued posts explaining this state of affairs, but the upshot is, PvP was abandonware back in 2011, and the record shows that involvement with, speaking courteously to, or openly engaging with members of the PvP community is a great way to tell Management at Cryptic that you'd really like to work somewhere else, please. there's practically a deadpool out there betting on how long it's going to take CrypticSpartan to "Has left Cryptic Studios under amicable conditions we swear (and his NDA won't let him discuss it so NYAHHH!!" posting.

    as has happened with 100% of developers prior to CrypticSpartan being in any way, shape or form interested in, or communicating in a civilized non-hostile manner with, PvP.

    We're on seven or eight years of it being career suicide to do anything but mock, make fun of, tease, or hide from pvp at Cryptic studios.

    when you add in statements from Geko on Priority One about it, or that the activity wasn't even considered, much less a priority after the departure of Gozer, or that the main driver for removing factional queues was to eliminate maps by consolidating them, or that in eight years we've gotten two additional maps and one of them bombed so hard it might as well not exist within a week (and was more or less the tech demonstrator for RvB'ing the queues in the first place)...

    the audience is microscopic-most of the PvP community left the game in winter 2014/2015, when D'Angelo went from "power creep" to "**** it, dump everything on to the server without testing!!!"

    Nobody in a position to make decisions at Cryptic studios even wants PvP to exist. They're stuck with it because it was part of the original build proposal they inherited from Atari.

    it's been a pretty uniformly dedicated effort over the last eight years to push players AWAY from PvP. There were more PvP players as a raw quantity in 2011-2013, with less accounts registered over-all, than there are currently as either raw numbers, or percentage of players.

    and this is by design and by intent. it's an audience that is seen as "Deplorable", not desirable, there is zero interest in or support of, PvP at the decision making level at Cryptic Studios, and if they could unsnarl and untangle it from the root code of the game without breaking the servers, they would.

    get it through your head; if you want to PvP, the devs don't want you here.

    For similar reasons, they hate the KDF as a faction too. But the fact remains they created it themselves, and basically hate their own invention.
    I find this disturbing.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 56,292 Community Moderator
    patrickngo wrote: »

    Rattler, NPC's don't buff.

    T heir powers trigger on a cycle, and Subnuking doesn't disrupt the cycle.


    PvE=Player vs. ENVIRONMENT. (aka NPC's)

    PvP=Player vs. Player (what it says_)

    you seem to have the two terms confuddled.

    No I don't. While they do trigger on a cycle, they still get the buff from the abilities they use. For example Torpedo Spread. Until it is used, they have a buff. Same with BFAW, except that one is a duration. Subnuc strips that.
    NPC abilities function exactly like player abilities. If a Sphere pops EPtE, it gets a buff. If a Romulan Mogai pops Attack Pattern Alpha, it gets a buff.

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Mogai_Heavy_Warbird_(Mob)

    Here's some proof. An NPC Mogai has access to Attack Pattern Alpha II. A BUFF. So yes... Subnuc IS useful in PvE. The effect, however, is a lot more noticable in PvP, especially against players who STACK MULTIPLE BUFFS.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,434 Arc User
    salvation4 wrote: »
    My opinion..

    IF YOU WANT TO IMPROVE IT THEN,
    DISABLE ALL SPECIAL CONSOLES & SET BOUNS EQUIPMENRT AT ANY TIER, DEVICES & SPECIAL WEAPONS leaving only BoFF, DoFF abilities, spec trees and traits intact, only stuff available from fleet holdings and mission drops,
    ...


    Too convoluted already.

    ChCDpuh.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    salvation4 wrote: »
    My opinion..

    IF YOU WANT TO IMPROVE IT THEN,
    DISABLE ALL SPECIAL CONSOLES & SET BONUS EQUIPMENRT AT ANY TIER, DEVICES & SPECIAL WEAPONS leaving only BoFF, DoFF abilities, spec trees and traits intact, only stuff available from fleet holdings and mission drops,
    ...
    Too convoluted already.
    Especially since better results could be gotten by making just PvP only items to use in PvP with less likely chance of things blowing up badly and having things like all our consoles get disabled in PvE queues. But for some god damn reason, the PvP player must somehow keep all their shinies and things like a balanced PvP match be damned.
    Even worse. The basic concept of PvP only gear means that it's a game mode so fundamentally different that the average player would have to relearn the game to play it. Then there's the issue of the massive dev resources required to CREATE all that gear in the first place. Not gonna happen.
    It's almost as if they don't WANT a balanced match and want their shinies to keep curb stomping the noobs so they can feel better about their e-peen.
    And how would your suggestion change that one iota? The most fundamental flaw with all PvP in games is that it's a contest between the devs trying to balance the game and the players trying to break the game's balance. Lamenting "pay 2 win" is misdirection. Sure, it give players an advantage. I used to do PvP in Avengers Alliance. I curbstomped Noobs without mercy. This is what my Agent used:
    preparetodie_by_marhawkman-da75j2n.png
    If this looks bad... it's because I had multiply layered defenses meant to make my Agent nearly untouchable. My tactician setup is merely one setup you might run into as a noob. Another fun one was to build the Agent into a bruiser tank and not only avoid taking damage but protect your team while doing so. This however, typically included use of an item(Elite E-Iso) NooBs would never get as it was a limited edition. I had one, I even used it, but not on my Agent. If you look closely you'll see that my team was Kuurth and Nul. Nul had the Elite E-Iso. My Kuurth setup was a bit atypical as my E-Iso choice(Purging) was something NooBs would see as pointless, and vets saw as sub optimal. This was because it relied on a power interaction(Kuurth had the ability to apply shield breaker with her first and second attack, but purging made it apply to her fourth attack too) that was undocumented in the game and may or may not have been a minor glitch.

    Why? because it's just part of playing the game. At it's core, PvP is about trying to beat the other guy. In part that means using pre-combat prep to improve your odds of winning. Given that there's a subforum dedicated to that I doubt I need to explain how popular that is.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • salvation4salvation4 Member Posts: 1,167 Arc User
    To clarify the devastatingly high and visible power creep..I went into a PvP with a fleet mate last week..ENG Vs SCI..1v1..

    Fleetmate calls out photonic fleet, fleet support, god know how many shuttles spamming mines, singularity projectors, gw's and only used the terran photon torpedo which does 200% damae towards lower hull HP..This was like 1v10 TRIBBLE storm..I on the other hand have a assault cruiser with 100k+ HP, 18k+SHP and average resists across the board at 47-49% (Not boosted), basically a tank that can take a sever beating in a group environment and holds its ground in a 5v5 senario..Well after we come in range Just out of 10kms, I activate all my abilites except the teams and Hazard emitters for obvious reasons..once inside the 10km threshold i let out everything (Long Range targeting active in the skill tree), my fleet mate at about 9.xxKms just ripped through all the resists, shields amd hull (courtesy PEN) and I was done with the terran photon torp spread in under 5 seconds The subnuc pulse 1 intel ability does jack TRIBBLE at range of 9.xxkms to debuff a target mind you, by which time your screwed to no end..
    Adrian-Uss Sovereign NCC-73811 (LVL 65 FED ENG) UR/E MKXV Fleet Intel Assault Cruiser (April 2012) (Main)
    Adu-Uss Firefox NCC-93425-F (LVL 65 FED AoY ENG) UR/VR MKXV Fleet Intel Assault Cruiser (July 2016)
    Jean-Uss Seratoga Ravenna (LVL 60 FED Delta ENG) UC/R MKVI Bajoran Escort (April 2018)
    Dubsa-RRW Mnaudh (LVL 50 FED allied ROM Delta ENG) Warbird (May 2018)
    Marop-IKS Orunthi (LVL 50 KNG Delta ENG) BoP (May 2018)
    Kanak'lan-TRIBBLE (LVL 65 DOM Gamma ENG) TRIBBLE (June 2018)
  • tfomegatfomega Member Posts: 812 Arc User
    salvation4 wrote: »
    To clarify the devastatingly high and visible power creep..I went into a PvP with a fleet mate last week..ENG Vs SCI..1v1..

    Fleetmate calls out photonic fleet, fleet support, god know how many shuttles spamming mines, singularity projectors, gw's and only used the terran photon torpedo which does 200% damae towards lower hull HP..This was like 1v10 **** storm..I on the other hand have a assault cruiser with 100k+ HP, 18k+SHP and average resists across the board at 47-49% (Not boosted), basically a tank that can take a sever beating in a group environment and holds its ground in a 5v5 senario..Well after we come in range Just out of 10kms, I activate all my abilites except the teams and Hazard emitters for obvious reasons..once inside the 10km threshold i let out everything (Long Range targeting active in the skill tree), my fleet mate at about 9.xxKms just ripped through all the resists, shields amd hull (courtesy PEN) and I was done with the terran photon torp spread in under 5 seconds The subnuc pulse 1 intel ability does jack **** at range of 9.xxkms to debuff a target mind you, by which time your screwed to no end..

    So what did you learn from the encounter? That you wanted to start this thread and say improve or remove?

    I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
    MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
  • tfomegatfomega Member Posts: 812 Arc User
    salvation4 wrote: »
    .

    salvation4.. have you actually gone into Ker'rat (cloak is recommended) and taken a look at evenly matched teams and wonder why people can stay alive so much longer than you? Most modern video cards have the ability to save video. Have you recorded someone whose build you are particularly interested in, ran your mouse back and forth over their active powers, and then played it back later in VLC at 25% full speed while seeing exactly what they are using? have you researched abilities you are unfamiliar with in STO? Do you question why they are using an ability you never thought to use?

    ^^ this is the beginning of PvP wisdom, but I often find that PvE'ers (Feds mostly because they are used to having Cryptic spoon feed them) never take the time. They just want "I Win" button.

    If you actually take the time to study how those people seem to survive forever, with the same resources that you have also been given in the game, perhaps that would prevent another thread such as this. Perhaps, even, if you learn a lot about the game, you can even start posting your solutions in the Builds forum here.

    I was the same way.. long long long ago.. not understanding, thinking things were unfair, until I made it my purpose to learn what I didn't understand. yes, it is a game, but no one will want to play it if Cryptic lowers the minimum age to 4+.


    I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
    MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
  • salvation4salvation4 Member Posts: 1,167 Arc User
    tfomega wrote: »
    salvation4 wrote: »
    .

    salvation4.. have you actually gone into Ker'rat (cloak is recommended) and taken a look at evenly matched teams and wonder why people can stay alive so much longer than you? Most modern video cards have the ability to save video. Have you recorded someone whose build you are particularly interested in, ran your mouse back and forth over their active powers, and then played it back later in VLC at 25% full speed while seeing exactly what they are using? have you researched abilities you are unfamiliar with in STO? Do you question why they are using an ability you never thought to use?

    ^^ this is the beginning of PvP wisdom, but I often find that PvE'ers (Feds mostly because they are used to having Cryptic spoon feed them) never take the time. They just want "I Win" button.

    If you actually take the time to study how those people seem to survive forever, with the same resources that you have also been given in the game, perhaps that would prevent another thread such as this. Perhaps, even, if you learn a lot about the game, you can even start posting your solutions in the Builds forum here.

    I was the same way.. long long long ago.. not understanding, thinking things were unfair, until I made it my purpose to learn what I didn't understand. yes, it is a game, but no one will want to play it if Cryptic lowers the minimum age to 4+.

    First off..Let get something straight..I am not crying for a "I win button" thats what the PvPérs want ..The remainder of the player base wants the field to be balanced through the classes..

    Second I dont want to spend days on end studying a person in a game when I have real life to also look after unlike sitting and watching playbacks at 25% speeds AND LEARNING A GAME SO MUCH THAT IT BECOMES A JOB, LOL..You may have that time but I got a life and a home to look after outside STO..

    Third..I put this up in the hopes of getting advice, opinions after returning from an ultra long break from the games PVP (didnt really start going near it until now since I left in 2012) and things have changed alot, and not sarcasm form a clear elitist thinking person who is clearly a ROM or KLING SCI or TAC cadet saying cloak is recommended, and sat and watched every player in Ker'rat (WHICH I HAVE BEEN TO WITH FLEET MATES AND VARIOUS OTHER RANDOM GROUPS BUT NOT LONG ENOUGH TO SIT AND STUDY THE PLACE AND PLAYERS)..And by no strech am I saying things are unfair..UNFAIR AND UNBALANCED ARE 2 totally difference things..

    Also I have found PvPér start crying nerf this nerf that, some within my own fleet who have since left or been kicked, whenever they cant one shot anything which basically effects the whole games dynamic.For a clear effect of power creep look at RA's..They were very iffy back in 2012 now they are iffy to last more than 1 min 30 seconds..Because of PvPérs the PvE environment has gone sore because there are no challenging ques apart from playing whatever ques there are on elite..Also I have seen elite PvPérs get nuked cointless times in the elite Hive OnSlaught and start crying they are OP..Fez is another place you see this..

    And your other mistake, most previous video capture cards from 2009 OR GPUS post 2010 could record..I used to use this at various game testing companies I worked for, for a short while as a part time job, while recording bugs in QA..

    And for the biggest mistake you stated, all ships DONT HAVE A CLOAK that goes indefinetly to sit and observe..In a Group PvP I can hold my grond and support other ships well enough as a tank+healer..

    Answer this are SCI, TAC, ENG all balanced for PvP??

    I have nothing against PvP and would like to get back into it on the 1v1 side, but there needs to be a balanced condition that exsits which is clearly missing in the classes..

    Thats all I am gonna say to a person like you..
    Adrian-Uss Sovereign NCC-73811 (LVL 65 FED ENG) UR/E MKXV Fleet Intel Assault Cruiser (April 2012) (Main)
    Adu-Uss Firefox NCC-93425-F (LVL 65 FED AoY ENG) UR/VR MKXV Fleet Intel Assault Cruiser (July 2016)
    Jean-Uss Seratoga Ravenna (LVL 60 FED Delta ENG) UC/R MKVI Bajoran Escort (April 2018)
    Dubsa-RRW Mnaudh (LVL 50 FED allied ROM Delta ENG) Warbird (May 2018)
    Marop-IKS Orunthi (LVL 50 KNG Delta ENG) BoP (May 2018)
    Kanak'lan-TRIBBLE (LVL 65 DOM Gamma ENG) TRIBBLE (June 2018)
  • tfomegatfomega Member Posts: 812 Arc User
    salvation4 wrote: »

    First off..Let get something straight..I am not crying for a "I win button" thats what the PvPérs want ..The remainder of the player base wants the field to be balanced through the classes..

    Incorrect.. PvPers ask for nerfs to I Win buttons
    Second I dont want to spend days on end studying a person in a game when I have real life to also look after unlike sitting and watching playbacks at 25% speeds AND LEARNING A GAME SO MUCH THAT IT BECOMES A JOB, LOL..You may have that time but I got a life and a home to look after outside STO..

    Then don't ask for changes or to improve/remove something you barely dabble in from time to time. I am very well off, financially and have a life, but it doesn't take as long as you think.

    Third..I put this up in the hopes of getting advice, opinions after returning from an ultra long break from the games PVP (didnt really start going near it until now since I left in 2012) and things have changed alot, and not sarcasm form a clear elitist thinking person who is clearly a ROM or KLING SCI or TAC cadet saying cloak is recommended, and sat and watched every player in Ker'rat (WHICH I HAVE BEEN TO WITH FLEET MATES AND VARIOUS OTHER RANDOM GROUPS BUT NOT LONG ENOUGH TO SIT AND STUDY THE PLACE AND PLAYERS)..And by no strech am I saying things are unfair..UNFAIR AND UNBALANCED ARE 2 totally difference things..

    The general consensus from those who play PvP consistently and who have put the time into learning the finer mechanics say that PvP is the most balanced it has been in a long time, with the exception of a few things. I would have to agree with them.
    Also I have found PvPér start crying nerf this nerf that, some within my own fleet who have since left or been kicked, whenever they cant one shot anything which basically effects the whole games dynamic.For a clear effect of power creep look at RA's..They were very iffy back in 2012 now they are iffy to last more than 1 min 30 seconds..Because of PvPérs the PvE environment has gone sore because there are no challenging ques apart from playing whatever ques there are on elite..Also I have seen elite PvPérs get nuked cointless times in the elite Hive OnSlaught and start crying they are OP..Fez is another place you see this..

    No argument.. the power creep does exist.. when I can take a cube in the cure found down to 0% without destroying any of the supporting spheres healing it, but with so many oh s h i t consoles in the game now one shots are really preventable. PvPers do not cry for nerfs except for "i win" buttons.. for example viral engine overload that could not be countered. Well, 3/8 patch says you can now counter it which means it is no longer a I win button for multiple members using it against a single target.
    And your other mistake, most previous video capture cards from 2009 OR GPUS post 2010 could record..I used to use this at various game testing companies I worked for, for a short while as a part time job, while recording bugs in QA..

    Cool, then you can do it... use FRAPS or whatever you want. Great! Have Fun!
    And for the biggest mistake you stated, all ships DONT HAVE A CLOAK that goes indefinetly to sit and observe..In a Group PvP I can hold my grond and support other ships well enough as a tank+healer..

    never stated all ships have cloak.. you made that up. I just said it was recommended if you are going to be messing with recording/observing in ker'rat that you have a cloak so you can get the details you need.
    Answer this are SCI, TAC, ENG all balanced for PvP??

    I have nothing against PvP and would like to get back into it on the 1v1 side, but there needs to be a balanced condition that exsits which is clearly missing in the classes..

    Thats all I am gonna say to a person like you..

    Good, glad you are finished now. Read what hardcore PvPers who understand the game mechanics and have done their homework have said above. Since you can't or won't take the time to learn about intricacies and nuances of PvP, take it from them. It is more balanced than it has ever been except for some very isolated issues.

    I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
    MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
  • tfomegatfomega Member Posts: 812 Arc User
    to further my statement of "balanced".. that does not take into account stupid stuff that cryptic puts in, like placates every 5 seconds and losing target locks all the time. At least in SFC2, you could override your opponents jamming at the cost of putting more power into sensors, which reduces your overall power for everything else as a side effect. I mean.. more reasonable physics and reality in this game has a long way to go. PvP in STO has a long way to go to being realistic.

    Next they will probably give a weapon type that has a 2.5% to placate all enemies 5KM from the target you are shooting at or something stupid like that.

    I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
    MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,893 Arc User
    Further, unless Cryptic could somehow put a fixed PVP system in a lockbox, I don't see it soaking up too many development hours.

    To pay for it maybe they could give F2Pers 1 free PvP match every couple hours, and charge Zen for additional runs within that timeframe?

    Note that I'm anti-PvP in regards to every MMO I've ever played, this is just a potential solution I thought of after reading this.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • tfomegatfomega Member Posts: 812 Arc User
    Yes.. the placate abilities are stupid.. intel team, lambda, evade target lock, 2 jumps on a rom (one innate the other with the delta/temporal engine??), Shields that placate, the placate a2s doff. I mean, why not put in a weapon type that has 2.5% to placate all enemies within 5km of the target you are shooting at. We can only do so much to try and keep our camera on the target we are trying to shoot at. maybe I haven't found a true counter yet by not being a sci.

    edge cases... troll.. yeah, sci-cancer! Oh, you meant pug stompers.. my bad.

    Yes, they do have a very long way to go to even have what season 5 had, hence the April Fool's joke they tried to play on us as stated above, but worse than that is the unrealistic gameplay that exists, such as a build I mentioned in the paragraph above. That is utterly shortsighted on Cryptic's part.

    Word of mouth can happen. I still have contact with many old PvPers. Those PvPers who left the game are still part of the overall Fleet, but play other games. They can still be contacted if Cryptic ever shows PvP the respect it is due. Some PvPers like the game season 5 and before and they are checking in from time to time to see if Cryptic has gotten wise. So while we are late in this game, I still have hope because I am one of those stubborn hold-outs.. and so were you at one time given your posts in the PvP forum.

    Agreed, the entry level for PvP is too high now unless you spend money on the game, which I am sure Cryptic wants, but most people won't do it.. so be smart, cryptic.. find a way. I mean, sure, I can build a toon to lvl 60 and have all reps in about a month (with sponsorship tokens), but the skill tree takes forever!!!!! it is also why I will not build another toon to full spec.

    I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
    MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
This discussion has been closed.