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Quantum warhead module severely overperforming in pvp

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  • terminatrixxx#8288 terminatrixxx Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    Have two servers, one for PVE and one for PVP

    I don't get the point.
    PvP is completely optional anyway.

    Nerfs on a PVP server would not carry over to PVE. Both sides happy

    You forget the third party, the devs, they might not so happy. lol
    It's not like everyone is getting around with one-shot-killer builds for both PvE and PvP.
    And, there is no challenge in fighting NPC's, they are just there as testsubjects.
    Anyway, the maingame doesn't require PvP so why bother?
    Princess of the 'House of the Immortals Armada'.
    Main ships: Dyson Tactical Science Destroyer + Qui'Tu Class Pilot Raptor
  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,813 Arc User
    Have two servers, one for PVE and one for PVP

    I don't get the point.
    PvP is completely optional anyway.

    Nerfs on a PVP server would not carry over to PVE. Both sides happy

    You forget the third party, the devs, they might not so happy. lol
    It's not like everyone is getting around with one-shot-killer builds for both PvE and PvP.
    And, there is no challenge in fighting NPC's, they are just there as testsubjects.
    Anyway, the maingame doesn't require PvP so why bother?
    Have two servers, one for PVE and one for PVP

    I don't get the point.
    PvP is completely optional anyway.

    Nerfs on a PVP server would not carry over to PVE. Both sides happy

    You forget the third party, the devs, they might not so happy. lol
    It's not like everyone is getting around with one-shot-killer builds for both PvE and PvP.
    And, there is no challenge in fighting NPC's, they are just there as testsubjects.
    Anyway, the maingame doesn't require PvP so why bother?

    Just suggesting a neutral solution
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • terminatrixxx#8288 terminatrixxx Member Posts: 23 Arc User

      Just suggesting a neutral solution

      A solution to non existent problem?
      Princess of the 'House of the Immortals Armada'.
      Main ships: Dyson Tactical Science Destroyer + Qui'Tu Class Pilot Raptor
    • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,813 Arc User

      Just suggesting a neutral solution

      A solution to non existent problem?

      The problem is PVP demands things be nerfed, that affects PVE. Separate the two so PVP nerfs don't affect PVE.
      NMXb2ph.png
        "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
        -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
      • terminatrixxx#8288 terminatrixxx Member Posts: 23 Arc User

        The problem is PVP demands things be nerfed, that affects PVE. Separate the two so PVP nerfs don't affect PVE.

        That's a weird discussion. Alot of things have been nerfed/buffed or changed in favor for PvE as well, which affected PvP.
        Even after a nerf, they most likely still powerful.
        Instead of split the community further, things should be equal for all players.
        Princess of the 'House of the Immortals Armada'.
        Main ships: Dyson Tactical Science Destroyer + Qui'Tu Class Pilot Raptor
      • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,813 Arc User
        It's finding that middle ground which keeps both sides happy.
        NMXb2ph.png
          "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
          -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
        • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
          I
          salvation4 wrote: »
          adz006 wrote: »
          The real fix is to remove PVP from the game.

          Until then, perhaps we need one general thread on "PVP - I was killed by X so it must be nerfed!" and one on "PVP - I can no longer insta-kill someone using Y so it must be nerfed!"

          Or we can remove the haters from the game, if you don't pvp please, this thread isn't for you

          The problem is that when PVPers demand nerfs for everything that kills them or they can't kill, those nerfs are applied to PVE too.

          99% of players lose fun toys because the 1% doesn't want to deal with them in PVP. Getting rid of that 1% is most definitely a fix that would let the rest of us keep our fun.

          I too agree..I never used to PVP because I was always one shot killed and was screwed in less than 20 seconds..But atleast now I can hold my ground as an eng captain, when one of my fleet mates threw 6 shuttles, 3 holo dedereux warbirds, a damn projector and a bunch of other things of a sci based captian for 5 minutes..In a test run..

          So basically its good the one shot attitude got a one shot nerf..It kinda levels the playing field..

          Indeed I agree, they should keep up the good work, plus they could just nerf it in pvp just like they did with entropic. Friend of mine managed to buff that console to over 230k. Throw in a slightly over performing trait such as cold hearted and you see what the issue is
        • casualstocasualsto Member Posts: 672 Arc User
          I think this is not the first time when casual pvp-ers or clumsy vapers advocate for nerfs that have a disaster-like impact upon certain game mechanics, pressing the dev team into nerfing them into complete uselessness.

          We're also aware of the pve stick-and-carrot done gradually.

          The actual dramas that led to disasters in the past:

          - IFBP (Improved feedback pulse) - The casual vaper was scared cause he can't use a subnucleonic beam or simply find a workaround against a buffed enemy. It was also cried as OP because it could crit. Ruined an amazing PvE toy. Descaled its reflect to simply threat-generating with no realistic dps worth-slotting. Removed its crit chance, adding further to uselessness.

          - Honored Dead - the casual vaper meets its first resiliently built cruiser he can't randomly and clumsily vape off with space-spamming post decloak. Crying causes nerf. Luckily this time, devs took a realistic approach and the trait is still viable.


          The amount of pvpers cannot dictate the pve gameplay evolution. And it is both sad and amusing when someone claims a nerf without even a few printscreens or proof of the issue. The attempt to troll or ruin the experience of others is not honorable.
        • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
          edited March 2018
          A "tanky cruiser" stills sucks against the Dual Heavy Disruptor Cannon "escort" vapers that now dominate ke'rrat, because they fly at Carpal Tunnel Syndrome™ inducing light-speed, and your (now nerfed for some ungodly reason) FAW will barely hit them... and if it does hit them they won't feel a thing since they're smart enough to fly at all-res default 50-60%. BO might do the trick, but only if you really know what you're doing, and it's still an inferior choice to Dual Heavy Cannons.

          Therefore the master vapers are basically also the master tanks if you look at it that way. To kill them you just need to use what they use (most of it is highly expensive/grindy - we're talking billions of EC at the top level), and then raw skill will decide the victor... sort of.

          I wouldn't say that PvP is broken, or terribly imbalanced. It's just not that fun because you can't use what you like. You have to go as cookie-cutter as you can and that's not what this highly customizable game is about (or should be about).

          I have a lot more fun with Ground PvP, but sadly it's even deader.

          EDIT: if any of you think (disruptor) cannons are a joke in PvP, then look at what this guy did to his bajoran shield in his PvP build. You wouldn't be doing this kind of thing in PvE obviously.

          Xxzo0LF.jpg

          Post edited by tremere12 on
        • thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,366 Arc User
          The real fix is to remove PVP from the game.

          Until then, perhaps we need one general thread on "PVP - I was killed by X so it must be nerfed!" and one on "PVP - I can no longer insta-kill someone using Y so it must be nerfed!"

          The real fix is to remove PVP from the game.+1
          STAR TREK
          lD8xc9e.png
        • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,326 Arc User
          I could see them maybe making a change to the pvp maps, and content (maybe in specific areas) buffing the hull/shield points of characters in them to bring them inline with what the stats of a npc (what many abilities are balanced with in mind). Maybe in content that has a mixture of pve, and pvp in it adding a buff that raises the hull/shield points of players by a percentage, or reduces the damage received from other players by a percentage could help too.

          Though i have always thought that it would be good to have two sets of values for abilities, weapons so that you can buffing/nerfing them specifically on the values for the specific content in need of balancing. Issue with that as said at other times such a change/alteration would be quite involved, and also take alot of resources to do, but would most likely be one of the best ways of balancing the game without worrying how the nerfs/buffs would affect the other content that might have very different needs.
        • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
          tremere12 wrote: »

          EDIT: if any of you think (disruptor) cannons are a joke in PvP, then look at what this guy did to his bajoran shield in his PvP build. You wouldn't be doing this kind of thing in PvE obviously.

          Xxzo0LF.jpg

          Yup...I can see major disruptor paranoia going on over there. Good illustration.

          "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

          “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
        • adz006adz006 Member Posts: 125 Arc User
          casualsto wrote: »
          I think this is not the first time when casual pvp-ers or clumsy vapers advocate for nerfs that have a disaster-like impact upon certain game mechanics, pressing the dev team into nerfing them into complete uselessness.

          We're also aware of the pve stick-and-carrot done gradually.

          The actual dramas that led to disasters in the past:

          - IFBP (Improved feedback pulse) - The casual vaper was scared cause he can't use a subnucleonic beam or simply find a workaround against a buffed enemy. It was also cried as OP because it could crit. Ruined an amazing PvE toy. Descaled its reflect to simply threat-generating with no realistic dps worth-slotting. Removed its crit chance, adding further to uselessness.

          - Honored Dead - the casual vaper meets its first resiliently built cruiser he can't randomly and clumsily vape off with space-spamming post decloak. Crying causes nerf. Luckily this time, devs took a realistic approach and the trait is still viable.


          The amount of pvpers cannot dictate the pve gameplay evolution. And it is both sad and amusing when someone claims a nerf without even a few printscreens or proof of the issue. The attempt to troll or ruin the experience of others is not honorable.


          What makes you think I'm a "casual pvper" or a "clumsy vaper" ?. Also I don't need to prove anything, the devs have the data at hand and am happy to provide them with specifics. This wasn't really meant as a debate per say, more of a flag of something that isn't "working as intended" as for the other mechanics such as fbp in the last meta, they should have never hit holo in the state it was in. Also as I have stated before nerf it for pvp only, After all Isa is very difficult pve these days, need all the dps you can get O.O

        • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,451 Arc User
          edited March 2018
          casualsto wrote: »
          I think this is not the first time when casual pvp-ers or clumsy vapers advocate for nerfs that have a disaster-like impact upon certain game mechanics, pressing the dev team into nerfing them into complete uselessness.

          We're also aware of the pve stick-and-carrot done gradually.

          The actual dramas that led to disasters in the past:

          - IFBP (Improved feedback pulse) - The casual vaper was scared cause he can't use a subnucleonic beam or simply find a workaround against a buffed enemy. It was also cried as OP because it could crit. Ruined an amazing PvE toy. Descaled its reflect to simply threat-generating with no realistic dps worth-slotting. Removed its crit chance, adding further to uselessness.

          - Honored Dead - the casual vaper meets its first resiliently built cruiser he can't randomly and clumsily vape off with space-spamming post decloak. Crying causes nerf. Luckily this time, devs took a realistic approach and the trait is still viable.


          The amount of pvpers cannot dictate the pve gameplay evolution. And it is both sad and amusing when someone claims a nerf without even a few printscreens or proof of the issue. The attempt to troll or ruin the experience of others is not honorable.

          another notable was Viral Matrix. it was GODLY in beta. get hit by one or two and Mr sci would come over and tear you a new one as your systems failed it was especially vicious since TT, ET and ST all shared a cooldown
          Spock.jpg

        • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,451 Arc User
          where2r1 wrote: »
          tremere12 wrote: »

          EDIT: if any of you think (disruptor) cannons are a joke in PvP, then look at what this guy did to his bajoran shield in his PvP build. You wouldn't be doing this kind of thing in PvE obviously.

          Xxzo0LF.jpg

          Yup...I can see major disruptor paranoia going on over there. Good illustration.

          thats why you go in with an Polaron or Tetryon cannon build. NO ONE defends against them
          Spock.jpg

        • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
          edited March 2018
          where2r1 wrote: »
          tremere12 wrote: »

          EDIT: if any of you think (disruptor) cannons are a joke in PvP, then look at what this guy did to his bajoran shield in his PvP build. You wouldn't be doing this kind of thing in PvE obviously.

          Xxzo0LF.jpg

          Yup...I can see major disruptor paranoia going on over there. Good illustration.

          thats why you go in with an Polaron or Tetryon cannon build. NO ONE defends against them

          Uhm.
        • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,484 Arc User
          they should just set it up so that when you pvp... system will automatically set it up so the players have the exact same stats/traits build... ie you can only use a premade ship & exact same loadout in traits & abilities.

          as a cash incentive for pwe.. for 1,000 zen you can change 1 item on the pvp build... each upgrade doubles the cost... 1k to 2k to 4k to 8k etc...
        • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
          How about restoring FAW and BO to their former glory, and then not everyone would be using cannons.
        • velquavelqua Member Posts: 1,215 Arc User
          As a ENG that farms Ker'rat and engages in a lot of PvP combat on that map, there isn't a need to nerf that console. If anything, cruisers and Engineers need to be buffed to the level of Elite status; we need higher amounts of Hull HP as well as Damage Resistance. Shields also need to be fixed and buffed so that it isn't so easy to penetrate and can actually be used to defend the ship. Right now, shields are virtually worthless and do nothing.

          For PvP, Devs need to re-look at max stats for each class (Eng, Sci, and Tac) and balance so that no class has an advantage over there other. Then we, as players, can focus on skill rather than just buy and use OP (broken) stuff.

          I will say this...if you can't afford to acquire or buy the Elite traits, gear, ships, etc., then PvP isn't for you.
          18662390068_f716cd60e3.jpg
        • velquavelqua Member Posts: 1,215 Arc User
          As a ENG that farms Ker'rat and engages in a lot of PvP combat on that map, there isn't a need to nerf that console. If anything, cruisers and Engineers need to be buffed to the level of Elite status; we need higher amounts of Hull HP as well as Damage Resistance. Shields also need to be fixed and buffed so that it isn't so easy to penetrate and can actually be used to defend the ship. Right now, shields are virtually worthless and do nothing.

          For PvP, Devs need to re-look at max stats for each class (Eng, Sci, and Tac) and balance so that no class has an advantage over there other. Then we, as players, can focus on skill rather than just buy and use OP (broken) stuff.

          I will say this...if you can't afford to acquire or buy the Elite traits, gear, ships, etc., then PvP isn't for you.
          18662390068_f716cd60e3.jpg
        • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
          velqua wrote: »
          As a ENG that farms Ker'rat and engages in a lot of PvP combat on that map, there isn't a need to nerf that console. If anything, cruisers and Engineers need to be buffed to the level of Elite status; we need higher amounts of Hull HP as well as Damage Resistance. Shields also need to be fixed and buffed so that it isn't so easy to penetrate and can actually be used to defend the ship. Right now, shields are virtually worthless and do nothing.

          For PvP, Devs need to re-look at max stats for each class (Eng, Sci, and Tac) and balance so that no class has an advantage over there other. Then we, as players, can focus on skill rather than just buy and use OP (broken) stuff.

          I will say this...if you can't afford to acquire or buy the Elite traits, gear, ships, etc., then PvP isn't for you.

          Cruisers definitely need something extra. Currently (as it has always been), "pro" level PvP is typically about who has the ship with the best turn-rate/flight speed. This makes them oddly enough both top tanks and top killers, which is insane.

          Since most cruisers basically have no choice but to become beam boats, the nerf on BFAW and BO a while back made them even more useless. Therefore to be useful in a team as a cruiser, you need to go full healer and forget about dps, or you're just wasting your time.

          All there is in PvP right that works is the typical 'escort' vaper that can punch right through your shields, and maybe one healer here and there... and that's more or less it. It's really stupid.
        • sleeeperr1sleeeperr1 Member Posts: 91 Arc User
          edited March 2018
          they already rebalanced the game tho quantum warhead is just overperforming ... ive seen mutlible hits of 258000+ in a row people cant even get that much hull comeon how can you say this is not overpowerd ?
        • ichaerus1ichaerus1 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
          tremere12 wrote: »
          How about restoring FAW and BO to their former glory, and then not everyone would be using cannons.

          So bring back the BFaW meta, is what you're saying? The one where it triggered procs also on every shot, instead of firing cycles like the other weapons had endured? And there wasn't a reduction in accuracy or damage?

          Beam Overload, I'm on the fence with, as part of me still misses that autocrit when it lands.
        • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,326 Arc User
          I actually quite like the new beam overload as it makes using beam overload more useful on a multi-beam using ship compared to bfaw, since after using it you buff the other beams on your ship for a duration, and would not mind if they added a similar mechanic to the torpedo boff abilities specifically torpedo high-yield. Though i also always thought that beam overload should have had it's effect scale based on the number of beams on a ship, so that it would actually produce a higher bonus when using it with only a single beam, but that the buff was smaller an spread out among the other beams on a ship with multiple beams slotted.
        • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,773 Arc User
          edited March 2018
          sleeeperr1 wrote: »
          they already rebalanced the game tho quantum warhead is just overperforming ... ive seen mutlible hits of 258000+ in a row people cant even get that much hull comeon how can you say this is not overpowerd ?
          How is that overperforming? It’s so low I don’t even bother using it.

          When normal torpedoes are hitting for 250k+ every few seconds how can you call a console with a very slow cooldown overpowered? That console has a tiny damage output over time and the damage is easy to tank without getting killed.

          If you are having problems against that console, it is not because the consoles is overpowered its because the setup needs changing for a better one.

        • tremere12tremere12 Member Posts: 477 Arc User
          edited March 2018
          ichaerus1 wrote: »
          tremere12 wrote: »
          How about restoring FAW and BO to their former glory, and then not everyone would be using cannons.

          So bring back the BFaW meta, is what you're saying? The one where it triggered procs also on every shot, instead of firing cycles like the other weapons had endured? And there wasn't a reduction in accuracy or damage?

          We're talking strictly about PvP here, and (with exception of Korfez elite maybe) since PvE is mostly stupid and easy (target practice on drooling, slow moving borg), I don't care about the consequences it would have there. Cruisers were nice in PvP in pre-DR, but now they suck TRIBBLE exactly because they can't hit or damage the skilled 'escort' bees sufficiently since beams is roughly all they can use because of their naturally low turn-rate.

          And so much for their tanking capacity also with their lower defense rating, and now with abilities like self-modulating fire that allows heavy cannon users to violently punch right through shields. We're supposed to stand in awe of "bigger ships", but it's more like the opposite.

        • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,373 Community Moderator
          guy's lets keep this topic focused on the original point and debate as this thread has deviated wildly from that. let's also keep this civil and on point otherwise I will be forced to lock the post. This is the heads up warning, next time will be a post lock.
          "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

          Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
        • sleeeperr1sleeeperr1 Member Posts: 91 Arc User
          pottsey5g wrote: »
          sleeeperr1 wrote: »
          they already rebalanced the game tho quantum warhead is just overperforming ... ive seen mutlible hits of 258000+ in a row people cant even get that much hull comeon how can you say this is not overpowerd ?
          How is that overperforming? It’s so low I don’t even bother using it.

          When normal torpedoes are hitting for 250k+ every few seconds how can you call a console with a very slow cooldown overpowered? That console has a tiny damage output over time and the damage is easy to tank without getting killed.

          If you are having problems against that console, it is not because the consoles is overpowered its because the setup needs changing for a better one.

          Normal torpedos DO not hit for 250k hits are you kidding?
        • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,773 Arc User
          sleeeperr1 wrote: »
          pottsey5g wrote: »
          sleeeperr1 wrote: »
          they already rebalanced the game tho quantum warhead is just overperforming ... ive seen mutlible hits of 258000+ in a row people cant even get that much hull comeon how can you say this is not overpowerd ?
          How is that overperforming? It’s so low I don’t even bother using it.

          When normal torpedoes are hitting for 250k+ every few seconds how can you call a console with a very slow cooldown overpowered? That console has a tiny damage output over time and the damage is easy to tank without getting killed.

          If you are having problems against that console, it is not because the consoles is overpowered its because the setup needs changing for a better one.

          Normal torpedos DO not hit for 250k hits are you kidding?
          @sleeeperr1 No I am not kidding go look up the torpedo boats combat logs in the DPS league either under my names or the others. There are plenty of 100k and 200k+ single hits. Not only do my torpedoes hit like this but they also disable shields so often hit like this right to hull.

          I just quickly logged into STO and on my Eng pilot in a Cruiser which is currently setup for speed not damage to do the Breech event. With this setup that is far from ideal my single torpedo launcher does around 61k per 2 seconds. This is sitting in space without crits, without damage buffs and without resistance debuffs. Once you add all those in and setup for damage you get single hits past 100k and can do these volleys every 2 seconds. Unlike the console which has an extremely slow fire rate.

          If our time zones match I will happy show you my current setup. Even though its far from ideal it should be proof of what I am saying as compare to what torpedoes do that console is nothing special. It’s nice to have but it’s not doing any more damage than other torpedo consoles or normal torpedo use. Its not even hard to tank.
        This discussion has been closed.