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What do you think? The Colony Fleet Holding

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  • kf4tvikf4tvi Member Posts: 164 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    You do now after last week's patch.


    I think you may have misunderstood what I am asking.

    I just donated provisions to all three of our fleets coffers and received 825 Fleet credits for a stack of 250 provisions in each category (the total amount after completing each mission).

    However, I use FLEET CREDIT BOOSTS and the the Fleet Credit BOOSTS are not being applied when donating to the coffers.

    When I donate directly to the fleet projects I get the 825 Fleet Credits for 250 provisions PLUS an additional 165 Fleet Credits from the FLEET CREDIT BOOST giving me a total of 990 Fleet Credits for donating the 250 provisions.

    Is this discrepancy the way it was intended to be?
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    It should work the same as far as I know. File a Bug Report in the Bug Report Forum.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
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    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • ikonn#1068 ikonn Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    Sounds like the bonus is not being awarded since the coffer is not being considered a project... similar to the issue with coffer donations not showing up on the leader boards since the coffer was, technically, not considered a project.
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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,899 Arc User
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10731404

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  • kf4tvikf4tvi Member Posts: 164 Arc User
    Thanks for the replies. I found a much simpler quicker fix for this issue, I simply stop wasting zen or ec on those boosts.
  • turnkeysturnkeys Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    I'd also like to add my vote for the risian hoverpacks. Since the powerboards are enabled, this is a logical addition.
  • texasrascal#5181 texasrascal Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    Console player here and I think the colony is pretty cool but I believe the Dilithium costs will be too exhaustive for the majority of fleets on console and will start creating a large problem sooner than later that will render the holding near useless for the majority of the player base if the dilithium costs across the lifetime of the projects isnt reduced soon.
  • texasrascal#5181 texasrascal Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    Console player here and I think the colony is pretty cool but I believe the Dilithium costs will be too exhaustive for the majority of fleets on console and will start creating a large problem sooner than later that will render the holding near useless for the majority of the player base if the dilithium costs across the lifetime of the projects isnt reduced soon.

    We just started our Tier 3, and sorry but this is laughable. We took our fleet from 0 on 2/19/17 to 68 today (will be 72 in the next 10 days) and there is no way we will have the dilithium resources to keep these colony projects moving forward. We have nearly 200 active members of which most never donate and there is no way I can see us going very far past Tier 3 of the colony. Just to level from 2 to 3 is is over 3.2 million in dilithium not including the tier 3 upgrades. We are a beta and our current discount is 9% (also getting max discount from DIL Mine) and even as a gamma I see this amount of dilithium being hard pressed. Most console gamer are fickle and this grind is just too much. It feels like whomever developed this used PC numbers to come up with the with the donation numbers. Console players haven't had 7 years to bank dilithium like PC. THIS is a REAL problem for console.

  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    Console player here and I think the colony is pretty cool but I believe the Dilithium costs will be too exhaustive for the majority of fleets on console and will start creating a large problem sooner than later that will render the holding near useless for the majority of the player base if the dilithium costs across the lifetime of the projects isnt reduced soon.

    We just started our Tier 3, and sorry but this is laughable. We took our fleet from 0 on 2/19/17 to 68 today (will be 72 in the next 10 days) and there is no way we will have the dilithium resources to keep these colony projects moving forward. We have nearly 200 active members of which most never donate and there is no way I can see us going very far past Tier 3 of the colony. Just to level from 2 to 3 is is over 3.2 million in dilithium not including the tier 3 upgrades. We are a beta and our current discount is 9% (also getting max discount from DIL Mine) and even as a gamma I see this amount of dilithium being hard pressed. Most console gamer are fickle and this grind is just too much. It feels like whomever developed this used PC numbers to come up with the with the donation numbers. Console players haven't had 7 years to bank dilithium like PC. THIS is a REAL problem for console.

    Well technically the situation is not really better on PC. I have not yet spoken to a single fleet leader who is happy about the demands for the new holding especially with the Dil part. Those who are are either all for better conditions on the Dil exchange at the cost of fleets or only donate a few Ks themselves when they feel like it and therefor have not really any idea what they are talking about.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    -80million dil total to complete the colony
    -8,000 refine cap a day per person
    -200 active players
    -144 days of waiting just to get through all of the main colony upgrade projects(not to mention any other upgrade project you might be running, and all the days it takes to get your moral/infrastructure/energy tiers to the levels needed to upgrade, etc)

    -80,000,000dil total / 8,000dil per day = 10,000 days of refinement one person would need to do to complete the colony
    -10,000days / 200people = 50 days of everyone refining to reach dil needed
    -144days of waiting / 50 days minimum = 2.88 times as long as needed

    Math shows that the fleet mentioned by @texasrascal#5181 would have nearly 3 times at long as the absolute minimum time one is able to get the dil needed to actually get the dil needed due to having to wait so long for colony upgrade projects to complete.

    Taking into account other projects like making a transwarp function between the colony and starbase, getting various doff assignment officers, buying the exchange/tailor/medical NPCs, and the time needed to get your various categories to 250,000 experience in the first place, you have effectively 7 times as long, a whole year(likely more), to do something you could do in 50 days. And this math assume when starting the colony, everyone in the fleet had all of literally 0 dilthium beforehand.

    It sholuldn't be an issue for anyone unless the fleet leaders allow a culture of non-participation in the fleet, which goes against the whole purpose of fleets in the first place, and goes against the entire organization of guilds in all other MMOs, which near universally all require minimum donates of a certain amount over time.
    Right. People here just have no patience anymore. Like the Starbase, which fleets took 1-2 years to finish, the colony is not meant to be a speedrun.
  • feralaffferalaff Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    The colony is beautiful and well done, BUT:
    - the mini games are very, very boring. Ok to do it once, but after that is just boring. Please increase provisions reward from STFs, i prefer to play the game instead of sitting for boring mini-games.
    - moving around the colony is nice the 1st and 2nd time....after that i really would like to have a super fast hoverboard, a jetpack or transporter pads.
    - i agree that the resources required are really A LOT...probably too much....but there is no hurry to rush for it.
  • texasrascal#5181 texasrascal Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    > @warpangel said:
    > somtaawkhar wrote: »
    >
    > -80million dil total to complete the colony
    > -8,000 refine cap a day per person
    > -200 active players
    > -144 days of waiting just to get through all of the main colony upgrade projects(not to mention any other upgrade project you might be running, and all the days it takes to get your moral/infrastructure/energy tiers to the levels needed to upgrade, etc)
    >
    > -80,000,000dil total / 8,000dil per day = 10,000 days of refinement one person would need to do to complete the colony
    > -10,000days / 200people = 50 days of everyone refining to reach dil needed
    > -144days of waiting / 50 days minimum = 2.88 times as long as needed
    >
    > Math shows that the fleet mentioned by @texasrascal#5181 would have nearly 3 times at long as the absolute minimum time one is able to get the dil needed to actually get the dil needed due to having to wait so long for colony upgrade projects to complete.
    >
    > Taking into account other projects like making a transwarp function between the colony and starbase, getting various doff assignment officers, buying the exchange/tailor/medical NPCs, and the time needed to get your various categories to 250,000 experience in the first place, you have effectively 7 times as long, a whole year(likely more), to do something you could do in 50 days. And this math assume when starting the colony, everyone in the fleet had all of literally 0 dilthium beforehand.
    >
    > It sholuldn't be an issue for anyone unless the fleet leaders allow a culture of non-participation in the fleet, which goes against the whole purpose of fleets in the first place, and goes against the entire organization of guilds in all other MMOs, which near universally all require minimum donates of a certain amount over time.
    >
    >
    >
    > Right. People here just have no patience anymore. Like the Starbase, which fleets took 1-2 years to finish, the colony is not meant to be a speedrun.

    > @warpangel said:
    > somtaawkhar wrote: »
    >
    > -80million dil total to complete the colony
    > -8,000 refine cap a day per person
    > -200 active players
    > -144 days of waiting just to get through all of the main colony upgrade projects(not to mention any other upgrade project you might be running, and all the days it takes to get your moral/infrastructure/energy tiers to the levels needed to upgrade, etc)
    >
    > -80,000,000dil total / 8,000dil per day = 10,000 days of refinement one person would need to do to complete the colony
    > -10,000days / 200people = 50 days of everyone refining to reach dil needed
    > -144days of waiting / 50 days minimum = 2.88 times as long as needed
    >
    > Math shows that the fleet mentioned by @texasrascal#5181 would have nearly 3 times at long as the absolute minimum time one is able to get the dil needed to actually get the dil needed due to having to wait so long for colony upgrade projects to complete.
    >
    > Taking into account other projects like making a transwarp function between the colony and starbase, getting various doff assignment officers, buying the exchange/tailor/medical NPCs, and the time needed to get your various categories to 250,000 experience in the first place, you have effectively 7 times as long, a whole year(likely more), to do something you could do in 50 days. And this math assume when starting the colony, everyone in the fleet had all of literally 0 dilthium beforehand.
    >
    > It sholuldn't be an issue for anyone unless the fleet leaders allow a culture of non-participation in the fleet, which goes against the whole purpose of fleets in the first place, and goes against the entire organization of guilds in all other MMOs, which near universally all require minimum donates of a certain amount over time.
    >
    >
    >
    > Right. People here just have no patience anymore. Like the Starbase, which fleets took 1-2 years to finish, the colony is not meant to be a speedrun.

    Well when working towards completing your fleet is the only content you have left, people get bored more than impatient. When the only thing holding you back is something you can't get any faster than the 8k per toon per day and when nearly no one will donate it then it makes you question the entire system. I don't want to wait a week to get dilithium to start a project and most fleets on console wont. It feels like it is locked behind a paywall similar to the same controversy with EAs battlefront. Buy Zen, exchange it for dil, and more forward or play god knows how.many hours and oh wait, still have to wait on a system that restricts you even if you ha e the raw material. Sorry but this is no different.
  • texasrascal#5181 texasrascal Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited December 2017
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > texasrascal#5181 wrote: »
    >
    > Well when working towards completing your fleet is the only content you have left, people get bored more than impatient. When the only thing holding you back is something you can't get any faster than the 8k per toon per day and when nearly no one will donate it then it makes you question the entire system. I don't want to wait a week to get dilithium to start a project and most fleets on console wont. It feels like it is locked behind a paywall similar to the same controversy with EAs battlefront. Buy Zen, exchange it for dil, and more forward or play god knows how.many hours and oh wait, still have to wait on a system that restricts you even if you ha e the raw material. Sorry but this is no different.
    >
    >
    >
    > Welcome to the end-game of 99% of MMOs, grinding for things you have some sort of daily/weekly cap on, but need far more then you can get in a day/week to upgrade/progress something.

    Small minded thinking doesn't constitute a valid response. I beg to differ greatly to this response since all I play are MMOs and have never been capped behind a paywall like this. The fact of the matter is my opinion is obviously the majority. This will only drive console players away as they have a plethora of alternatives.
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    feralaff wrote: »
    - the mini games are very, very boring. Ok to do it once, but after that is just boring. Please increase provisions reward from STFs, i prefer to play the game instead of sitting for boring mini-games.

    Agreed, but the need for mini games disappears after having reached level 1 in each subcategory. Sure, sometimes you'll have to wait a couple of days until the coffers replenish the needed amount, but since you're going to hit the dil bottleneck early enough, that shouldn't be an issue.
    Well when working towards completing your fleet is the only content you have left, people get bored more than impatient. When the only thing holding you back is something you can't get any faster than the 8k per toon per day and when nearly no one will donate it then it makes you question the entire system.

    I see a different problem outside of the system. If there is only one goal and you're not willing to work for it, it's bound to fail.

    But generally speaking, while I do think the prices are quite steep, this content is not meant to be finished asap. And that is a good thing, although we can easily argue on the specifics. If indeed somebody only has this one goal and wants to get through with it within the least amount of time, perhaps right now this isn't their game. Or they can set themselves a new target, like starting a new character and playing with dropped gear only or similar. (It's actually fun when drops start to matter, though I can never restrain myself for too long). Or take a break, come back in 6 months, see if something new came up you like. While the players who've "seen it all, spent it all" certainly are an important demographic of any MMO, they aren't the only one, and thus Cryptic has to think about others, too.
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  • texasrascal#5181 texasrascal Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    99% of our project dilithium come from maybe 5 people. I dont plan to spend 5 years to complete the colony. You all making comments about patience, etc. really are missing the point. Even if all 10 people for around 20k dil a day and they all could play non stop at some point we would be pouring 100% of our dil into the colony. So where is the fun to be had when we would have none left for personal use? Also, I just took a 2 month hiatus from the game and came back for the new content of which the colony is part of that. Again, everyone plays different and I already have over half a dozen toons maxed out all with multiple epic builds and that is too much. I have no desire to build another toon. I am back to build the colony but the requirements make it impossible to do and have fun.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    99% of our project dilithium come from maybe 5 people. I dont plan to spend 5 years to complete the colony. You all making comments about patience, etc. really are missing the point. Even if all 10 people for around 20k dil a day and they all could play non stop at some point we would be pouring 100% of our dil into the colony. So where is the fun to be had when we would have none left for personal use? Also, I just took a 2 month hiatus from the game and came back for the new content of which the colony is part of that. Again, everyone plays different and I already have over half a dozen toons maxed out all with multiple epic builds and that is too much. I have no desire to build another toon. I am back to build the colony but the requirements make it impossible to do and have fun.

    You are absolutely right with what you say. I have my toons spread throughout two full armadas and I get a similar picture for up to 26 fleets where I can check daily progress and with whose players I can chat with each day. Actually I met only 2-3 advocates for the demands here in forums. They seem to place low dil exchange rates above fleet progress and/or don’t seem to play an influential role in the progressions of their fleets anyway. In short, I’d take their responses on topic not that serious. ;)
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • texasrascal#5181 texasrascal Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > texasrascal#5181 wrote: »
    >
    > Small minded thinking doesn't constitute a valid response. I beg to differ greatly to this response since all I play are MMOs and have never been capped behind a paywall like this. The fact of the matter is my opinion is obviously the majority. This will only drive console players away as they have a plethora of alternatives.
    >
    >
    >
    > 1. Even in widely successfully MMOs like Guild Wars 2 require you do months of grinding to get things like legendary weapons/weapons.
    > 2. There is no paywall since you don't pay money for anything to complete the fleet projects.
    > 3. No, your opinion isn't the majority. The forums represent the minority, since only the minority of people go on the forums, as forums are primary used by those who want to complain. texasrascal#5181 wrote: »
    >
    > 99% of our project dilithium come from maybe 5 people.
    >
    >
    >
    > This is your fault for not setting basic rules on donations like most every guild in every other MMO. Stop trying to blame Cryptic for your own poor management of your fleet.

    Either you dont play on console, you dont own a major fleet or if you do you are ripping your people off. If you kick people for not donating then you wont have anyone in your fleet. We were 500 members and we just kicked inactives and we are down to about 120 people that actually make up the fleet. You can't force people to donate aka the problem. The player base on console is dramatically decreasing. And you are right the forums are the minority. In expressing this complaint after speaking with many of the admirals from the majority of the largest fleets on PS4 and we all are in agreeance that the dil demands in the colony are an issue that needs to be addressed.
  • mephizton2092mephizton2092 Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    Fleets often have a core of people donating stuff. Other just donate enough to get the required fleet EC, or the easy stuff everyone can donate. And will the fastest.
    The colony is beaitifull, and the coffer is a casual friendly player option for fleets. People can always generate fleet ec now, even if all projects are filled.
    The use ofwaveboards is also great, makng it a fleet uniqe map.
    Flavour gear and some nice kits so far, gives it a reason for people to level it.
    Seeing how people reacted on the Lukari, this is very nice alien fleet project.
    The mini games, have been adjusted, which gave it an easy mode. Later on this grind issnt that hard annymore due the fleet run, and or coffer farming and or dailly generated.

    The fact its T5 fleet project makes it a long term holding, which makes it more special. And something to look out for when finaly finished.

    I would have preffered the optional project with doffs instead of dil like the starbase, cause the dil needed is heavy. My personel pref doesnt make the colony any less, i will see it much later completed then some other fleets, thats ok. Only the few dedicated enough will spend dil on it, others who wouldnt use dil for fleet projects will now not use it as a sink.
    In the end this doesnt matter, fleet invites on NoP will give acces to fleets annyway.
    Patience is a thing, being first doesnt matter annyway for holdings like this, it doesnt give u more discount then anyone else finishing later. It will be a dil sink, but not more then the other holdings.

    For now i love the colony, its still fun and will probally my base of operations when gamma quadrant returns next year

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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    The gas company is at fault for making a FIVE TIER Holding with the same XP requirements as the bloody main Starbase and provisioning requirements even greater at this late stage of the game. Fuffy add-ons which are Dilitium only right from the start. And throw in fairly continual Phoenix Prize Pack Events, which suck up Dilitium, one right before this thing dropped.

    Sorry, they 'scr*wed the pooch' on this one.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Many of the people who contributed so much in the past no longer play the game, many stating they have been driven off by Cryptic's money grabbing schemes, Delta Rising, nerf hammers, real life and so on.
    That is the problem, isn't it. The people who built the majority of the old holdings, including Starbases, aren't here anymore. The people who undrestood that a 5-tier holding is not going to be "filled quickly," but is going to take a year or two to finish. That would laugh off complaints that getting 3 tiers in 2 months is slow, because it's way faster than the Starbase was back in the day.

    Because Cryptic has gone full Easy Mode for years and the game just doesn't reward patience and skill anymore, players like that aren't attracted to STO anymore.

    But fortunately, you don't need to build the colony, if your fleet is full of people who don't want to.
    It's not poor management, it's poor management tools, and the only people to blame there are Cryptic.
    Right. The fleet system, copypasted as it is from similar systems in other MMOs, is poorly suited to the management of cooperative resource projects. The hierarchical leadership model was designed for organizing raids and such. Cryptic never added any kind of investment management features at all when adding holdings. It provides no security and leaves everything to trust, which just doesn't work well to encourage total strangers to part with their money, however virtual.

    But that's nothing new. Some fleets have overcome that lack of support and will continue to do so. Others will not. While it would be awesome if Cryptic came up with better fleet investment mechanics, that doesn't seem very likely.
  • grayfoxjamesgrayfoxjames Member Posts: 1,516 Arc User
    As a fleet that has completed its Tier V Starbase 100% completion in less then a year, my only complaint with Colony World progression is the amount of Dilithium needed to fill the major projects. I believe I've read somewhere that Tier V Upgrade project is somewhere around 14,000,000 Dilithium? Is this correct?

    This just sounds wrong considering that Dilithium is the most regulated item in the game with only 8k a day allowed. For smaller fleets, this will likely take years or just be impossible to complete. For the largest fleets it will be governed by the 8k Dil requirement and yes active membership.

    Perhaps allow us to donate unrefined Dil to the Colony World would help relieve some of that horrible gating...
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