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DHC Nerf - Why?

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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,343 Arc User
    lordlalo wrote: »
    Hi,

    I take cannon build escorts into PvE each day and get regular parses in the 100-150k DPS reach out of ISA. The only thing that bugs a bit is the fact that the respective boff powers start at lt. while for beams and torpedoes one starts at ensign. As far as escorts in general are concerned I’m also not that happy with the experimental weapon as they ship as some sort of preset standard on vessels without any considerable means to influence them. They pale a bit compared to the secondary deflectors of scis or a regular weapon of cruiser but that’s about it.

    While DHC builds may take some time to get used to and may not be the obvious weapon of choice for the target distribution in ISA they should get you at least pretty far anywhere in game. My suggestion is to look up the links of the STO DPS league @strathkin provided. I learned almost all stuff there is about ship building from felisean and hellspawny who run the league.
    lordlalo wrote: »
    From my understanding these tact captains are running in sci ships using APA, GDF, Science Ultimate, and AOE's with beams. This just seems wrong.

    Oh no, not at all. Please join us in the league.

    Thanks for the constructive reply Peter. I have to ask, is this a DHC build you're talking about or dual cannon build? Some others are talking about Dual Cannons being better than DHC's.

    I'm currently running a DHC *cough* phaser *cough* build. I know, phasers were also nerfed I hear. I use the build because my two "favorite" ships is the manticore/chimera and the new T6 Artamage (fleet heavy escort carrier). Both ships synergize with phasers quite well. It seems, even with Fleet Epic Phaser DHC's and running 3 epic locators and 2 epic exploiters, I just can't seem to cross over the 40K dps territory. I'm in a couple of DPS channels but they all seem to be dead including the old 20K DPS channel.

    I'm just not really understanding what I'm doing wrong here vs beams. Currently my ships all have more than 25% crit chance and 150+ crit severity. Each cannon shows that it does a base of 2.5K dps in space. I also have the GDF trait so I can use GDF as a DPS buff any time, as well as other DPS type traits. Even converting my ships to glass cannons, I still fall short of crossing the 30K line in ISA. However, simply switching over to my engineer who is running a pure beamboat with BFAW and Aux2Bat with just VR XII beams, he can top 60K dps in ISA easy.

    Any ideas of what is holding that toon back other than DHC's?

    Don't believe everything you've heard. Phasers never got nerfed as a type at all! All energy weapons got nerfed, but not as badly as people make out. Cannons got an extra shot in their cycle and still do more damage than Beams, you just need to be with-in the arc.

    Sounds like you have an issue maintaining power levels.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • orondisorondis Member Posts: 1,447 Arc User
    There was a change to weapon power drain (first weapon to fire is now counted), that may have caused it. Especially if you were relying on plasmonic leech to keep your power levels up, which got nerfed.

    Other than that, DHC's got buffed by the balance pass.
    Previously Alendiak
    Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
    Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,343 Arc User
    I should mention also OP that you might want to check your accuracy ratings too as multi-targetting energy weapon skills now have reduced accuracy.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 2,666 Bug Hunter
    I probably shouldn't ask the obvious but as you've been out of the game awhile; did you think to check your ships power levels? The higher the power is for energy weapons can drastically increase their damage. Most generally set weapons as the dominant power type, while others sometimes choose balanced then custom set them.

    You want weapons to be at least 100-105 base or higher especially if your using DHC's in place of Torpedo's which don't drain power level so it leaves higher levels for the remaining 5-6 energy weapons.
    0zxlclk.png
  • lordlalolordlalo Member Posts: 460 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    I should mention also OP that you might want to check your accuracy ratings too as multi-targetting energy weapon skills now have reduced accuracy.

    The ship's power levels sit at 125/84/52/102. I keep aux high for healing and for the offensive nakura trait (+dmg +acc based on aux power).
    Nice, I think you have a lot of stuff you can put to use here. :)



    I suspect you see a good increase in PvE DPS of u only switch from single target attacks (which rule PvP) to multi target ones.

    For example in TAC commander you could try out:

    Kemo I, APB I, Cannon Scatter Volley II and Cannon Scatter Volley III

    You would loose APO and focused assault but I think that in addition to APB this would give you still good more DPS.

    For your Engineering Uni you could go:

    Eng Team, Reverse shield polarity and, EPW III

    The setback to loose Aux to Structural II to trade for Eng Team I is again rather small compared to the massive energy and bonus DMG punch you get with EPW III over I

    Think that is the first I’d only to find out if multi target attacks suit you and if that’s the play style you prefer. That’s important but from a PvE DPS standpoint (sadly) the only way to go.



    Since gear is so creepy expensive to upgrade I would hold back there for now and don’t even see that much stuff to change. Nice you have already 2 phaser sets and Borg 2 pice.

    What cannon players are also privileged to get would be the Undine rep two piece (uni console and turret) Counter-Command Ordnance for a good 7,5% bonus DMG for all your phaser.

    Another verry powerful console, especially with the high aux of yours, would be the Temporal Disentanglement Suite you get for free from a story mission.

    Of course stuff like Ico space set (3 or 4) or Nukara (2) would also boost DMG quiet good but would also be on the more expensive side to change.



    If you have access to the sepcs pleas consider Intel or miracle worker as primary and strategist as secondary.

    Of course DPS results you get can vary a great deal in ISA depending on your team. We have so many countless options around for team buffs and critter de-buffs that it is very hard to tell how single builds adjustments work out so for me multiple runs are needed to decide.

    I have seen you are very close to beat Feliseans DPS challenge and you are signed up. I’m confident if you give the multi target approach a try you get above 40k and probably much further in no time.

    I’m home in 5h as of the moment of making this post and should play STO for 2-3h today. If by any chance you are on as well pls. give me a shout. I’d love to bring my support build and see how far we get in ISA. :)

    I'll give these suggestions a shot. I do have EPWIII on that BO, I think I had switched it out when I started back because I wasn't seeing much of a dps increase between EPWI and EPWIII.

    I think I only need one scatter volley though, with the doffs I have any cannon enhancement buff is cooled down to the global CD, so even if I run Rapid II and Rapid III and use Rapid III, as soon as rapid III is ready, Rapid II is as well. I'll definately give scatter volley a shot. I think I had stopped using that because of just the three targets and the mega loss of accuracy (-50%) you get when using it.
    Said NO to Arc. Gets punished by not being given a free outfit, free lobi, and free shuttle. Now forced to use Arc's site when trying to get to STO site. Still not rewards for beta testing the Arc website by force. Bravo Cryptic.
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    gaevsman wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    gaevsman wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    gaevsman wrote: »

    Bugged??, how??, I have that ship, but haven't give it a spin for some time..
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    That reminds me...I need to set that ship up again. My main's fleet morrigu is currently bugged to hell and back so I should pick up that ship again.



    It somehow got a stack of unrepairable injuries. So until they fix it, it is on hold for use. And no I didn't die a bunch in it either.

    Did you tried to put it in the dry-dock?, it usually fixes those thins for me...

    Humm...actually...no. Thanks for the idea :) .

    Let me know if it works :smiley:

    Cool...so it worked :) . Yeah it was annoying. I would try to repair it at the bases and the injuries does not show up to fix. Use a kit and the injury would not go away. Was really buggy. But at least this fixed it.

    Good to know!... from what i understand from the drydock, is as you where re-issued with the ship, so most estrange bugs get fixed by this method.. thanks for the info!
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • bossheisenbergbossheisenberg Member Posts: 603 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    (...)

    But don't give up on cannons, they are still vicious. Look at this stuff.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ychPiTCBDH8

    Dang @bossheisenberg, that's some entertaining video. Probably it's the music, but the cannons and piloting help :wink:

    Which ship are you using?


    Thanks, that was a fun one to make. The ship is the Miradorn Raider, which is my all-time favorite ship at the moment. Notice I did the whole run with no shield. On elite. Kind of a way to show how ridiculously easy the content has become.
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    Yeah I don't see a nerf at all done to dual/dual-heavy cannons, anything it is a buff or on par really. About the only thing i would want to see done with dual/dual heavy cannons is create a bit more of a difference in what ships use which cannon type, maybe a buff to single cannons, and seeing them implement heavy turrets in the same way they did omni-arrays in the crafting system.
  • solidshark214solidshark214 Member Posts: 341 Arc User
    I've been fine-tuning a Fleet Eclipse with antiproton dual beam banks for the past several months, tons of rep gear, Mark XIV Epic beams and Vulnerability Locators, etc., etc. Does some pretty decent DPS, though admittedly not anywhere close to the levels I've heard about on the forums.

    Am now in the process of putting together a Hathos with antiproton DHCs. Nothing special on her save Mark XIV Epic DHCs and mag regulators; just about everything else is Mark XII Rare at best. Tends to turn entire groups of Nausicaans, Rebel Klingons, etc. into vapor in the first second or two of an Alpha Strike. Only thing the ship has that the Fleet Eclipse doesn't--yet--is the Arbiter's trait, yet she does way more damage.

    Nah. I don't think DHCs have been nerfed lately.
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