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Kick function

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  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    Kicks are not really effective for one reason... ABUSE by folks who are on a power trip to make others miserable or are control freaks who want everyone to play "the right way" in others words play just like them or else. Played WOW and saw way to much abuse of the kick with it being used the most by "elite" players who would kick others during loot rolls so those players who needed the gear never got even a chance at it. Longer AFK penalty is a better would go so far as a week but a 24 hour account lockout maybe. But there is always a chance a player would get hit with one for no real good reason it happens (some pve's when uber DPS or dkilled pilots wipe the npc's before lesser geared ships get a shot off for one) far to often as it is so maybe that would be to extreme shrug.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    The "AFK" penalty doesn't affect AFKers, only low-DPS people.

    They should call it the DPS penalty or remove it.
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,870 Arc User
    These topics always reappear every time there's a MI event going on.

    The more common form of AFK'ing that now tends to be a "disconnection" that miraculously sorts itself out just as the flagship spawns. Although there are still a few that choose the old school method of running off to scrape the edges of the map.

    Reporting won't work as that requires actual GM's to be active in the game and sadly the devs don't seem to give a stuff about it happening otherwise they might have tried to fix it years ago.

    The afk penalty is dps based so anyone that focusses on zipping in and closing portals while a teammate has the aggro will look like they're less active, despite doing a valuable job.

    Kicking would also give you the same end result as there's no current way to fill gaps on a run in progress. And no doubt adding in such a feature would royally bork the pve queue system leading to umpteen patches to try and fix it due to it being pushed out too early as is the norm for cryptics dev cycle.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    Reporting won't work as that requires actual GM's to be active in the game and sadly the devs don't seem to give a stuff about it happening otherwise they might have tried to fix it years ago.
    Reporting won't work because "not playing the way someone else wants" is not in violation of the Terms of Service.

    As for the devs, it's all the same for them what we do for our 12 minutes wait, as long as we're in the mission contributing to their play-time metrics. If they wanted there to be mandatory objectives besides the timer and the boss ship, they would add some.
    Kicking would also give you the same end result as there's no current way to fill gaps on a run in progress. And no doubt adding in such a feature would royally bork the pve queue system leading to umpteen patches to try and fix it due to it being pushed out too early as is the norm for cryptics dev cycle.
    Actually, they just removed the ability to pull replacement players from the queue with the infamous UI revamp. That's why the queues tend to get so much cancellation spam these days.
  • robdmcrobdmc Member Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    If we want to know how it will be used why not look at how the Kick function is used in fleets.
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Being only half-awake at the moment, I thought the title of this thread was KIRK Function.

    And immediately thought of putting on a pair of boots while sitting on the side of a bed!
    B)
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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,870 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Actually, they just removed the ability to pull replacement players from the queue with the infamous UI revamp. That's why the queues tend to get so much cancellation spam these days.

    Which is why I said no current way to fill gaps
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,071 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    The "AFK" penalty doesn't affect AFKers, only low-DPS people.

    They should call it the DPS penalty or remove it.

    Technically, people who are AFK are low DPS people, so essentially what you're saying is that the AFK penalty is working?

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Discussed many times before. Too open to abuse.

    Same thoughts as Reyan here. so i don't agree either OP.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    valoreah wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    The "AFK" penalty doesn't affect AFKers, only low-DPS people.

    They should call it the DPS penalty or remove it.

    Technically, people who are AFK are low DPS people, so essentially what you're saying is that the AFK penalty is working?
    No, they are not. And no, it isn't.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,767 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    The "AFK" penalty doesn't affect AFKers, only low-DPS people.

    They should call it the DPS penalty or remove it.

    Technically, people who are AFK are low DPS people, so essentially what you're saying is that the AFK penalty is working?
    People who are AFK are low-DPS people. However, not everyone who's low-DPS is AFK - some are using abilities that simply don't directly cause DPS, like healing teammates.
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,071 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    No, they are not. And no, it isn't.

    So if I enter a queue and go AFK, I am contributing zero DPS. Zero is as low a DPS number as you can get. You don't consider a total DPS of zero to be "low"?

    And since I have zero DPS, I will get the AFK ban. In this instance, it sounds like things are working as intended.



    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,767 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    No, they are not. And no, it isn't.

    So if I enter a queue and go AFK, I am contributing zero DPS. Zero is as low a DPS number as you can get. You don't consider a total DPS of zero to be "low"?

    And since I have zero DPS, I will get the AFK ban. In this instance, it sounds like things are working as intended.



    And if you enter a queue, go into the match, and spend your time buffing your teammates and debuffing the enemy, you are contributing significantly to the victory, yet are producing little to no DPS, and would be treated in exactly the same fashion as someone who's gone AFK.

    The same issue has plagued CO for quite some time, and the workarounds found are seldom satisfactory to all parties.
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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,478 Arc User
    nabreeki wrote: »
    If you do less than 15k DPS should should get a penalty anyway.
    Why? That's above many casual players. You only need an average of about 10K dps to complete an ISA with optional successfully.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    No, they are not. And no, it isn't.

    So if I enter a queue and go AFK, I am contributing zero DPS. Zero is as low a DPS number as you can get. You don't consider a total DPS of zero to be "low"?

    And since I have zero DPS, I will get the AFK ban. In this instance, it sounds like things are working as intended.
    Well if you're that dumb about it, sure. But if you shoot something first, that's enough to avoid the penalty. The game doesn't consider that to be "low." Of course not, since it's not actually intended as a DPS penalty even though in practice it is one.

    People only get the penalty when they can't put out the threshold level of DPS across the whole mission, because someone else kills all the enemies fast.
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,392 Arc User
    (The following is an opinion, no need to clutch the pearls)

    I would have to say an unequivocal "No". Why? Simply because of the exclusionary attitude certain players have started taking against casual and new players. Casual players and new players would be getting kicked from queues all the time for less than valid reasons. Including: "Not up to my standards of play", "I don't like your play style", "You're not doing what I tell you to do". Etc. Ridiculous reasons.

    Because the people that would abuse this kind of feature the most in this game in my view, are the veterans and the long time players that think that new, casual, and players not up to their snuff are not worth playing with. You know, the gate keeping type.

    So yeah, no. The potential for abuse far outweighs the benefits and would just create an environment of hostility which would only hurt the game monetarily in the end as people left for more friendly gaming environments. I know a lot of mmo's have a kick function, such as ESO and it works out pretty well in that game, because there isn't elitism behind it, at least in my experience there.

    But the fact that it's being asked for here with already the intent being to target groups of people, no, I can't see this working out well at all. I mean first it will be the afk'ers, then it will be other groups of people.

    This game is designed to accommodate different styles of play and differently levels of play. Plain and simple, that should not change. Yes, are afk'ers annoying? Absolutely. Some people just like to watch the world burn, they are everywhere.

    Instead people should learn to utilize pre-organizing groups if they don't like afk'ers in their pugs. I mean if you're complaining about PUG mechanics, then you're kind of shouting into a void of futility. If you're PUG'ing, then you know what risks you are running and you're accepting those risks. Would it be ideal if everyone who played a game had pure, noble intentions? That would be awesome, but it's not realistic.

    It's ironic though, since afk'ers actually make the content more difficult, something a lot of the same people wanting a kick function, have been wanting lol.

    I agree totally. I was in the mirror incursion and started gettingscreamed at because i DARED have topedos on my Oddy. I am positive if a kick was in place i would have been gone. it didn't matter that I was DPSing as well if not better that they were.
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  • lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    The problem with MIA is that without a co-ordinated high level team you cannot protect the starbase and get the defences to level 5. That being the case AFKing to stage 2 makes sense. Problem is some folk are pretty clueless about how to even do that! 6 rifts and 5 players means in theory each player should close 1 rift, but some focus on the DN instead or can't solo. My last match I closed half the rifts and the team failed the time optional because ... well frankly I've no idea. I think they were pounding on the DN, and not doing much, but failed to close the rifts first. Naturally it escaped so we had to head that way and kill it when it emerged. Epic fail! To make it worse, most players seem to ignore chat so any instructions, questions, or announcements appear to be missed. Can't see the point of an AFK kick option if players are all doing their own thing.

    In case this sounds a tad boastful I am not claiming to be particularly skillful or have high level gear - ordinary Mark XIV BA's for the most part. I can solo some rift groups but it varies, and unprotected rifts are obviously easy to close.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    The problem with MIA is that without a co-ordinated high level team you cannot protect the starbase and get the defences to level 5. That being the case AFKing to stage 2 makes sense. Problem is some folk are pretty clueless about how to even do that! 6 rifts and 5 players means in theory each player should close 1 rift, but some focus on the DN instead or can't solo. My last match I closed half the rifts and the team failed the time optional because ... well frankly I've no idea. I think they were pounding on the DN, and not doing much, but failed to close the rifts first. Naturally it escaped so we had to head that way and kill it when it emerged. Epic fail! To make it worse, most players seem to ignore chat so any instructions, questions, or announcements appear to be missed. Can't see the point of an AFK kick option if players are all doing their own thing.

    In case this sounds a tad boastful I am not claiming to be particularly skillful or have high level gear - ordinary Mark XIV BA's for the most part. I can solo some rift groups but it varies, and unprotected rifts are obviously easy to close.
    Your ordinary Mk14 gear would've been put to better use DPSing the dreadnought instead of closing rifts.

    Yes, theoretically each player could close one rift straight off. Ideally, taking positions before they even spawn and using hidden payload to close cloaked. But in a pug that'll never happen, because as you say nobody cares about coordination, so there's no point trying. The next best plan is for everyone to simply attack the dreadnought. It only escapes twice and it's faster to chase after it (and often it respawns in the same rift anyway) than fly all around the map closing rifts one by one.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,353 Arc User
    (The following is an opinion, no need to clutch the pearls)

    I would have to say an unequivocal "No". Why? Simply because of the exclusionary attitude certain players have started taking against casual and new players. Casual players and new players would be getting kicked from queues all the time for less than valid reasons. Including: "Not up to my standards of play", "I don't like your play style", "You're not doing what I tell you to do". Etc. Ridiculous reasons.

    Because the people that would abuse this kind of feature the most in this game in my view, are the veterans and the long time players that think that new, casual, and players not up to their snuff are not worth playing with. You know, the gate keeping type.

    So yeah, no. The potential for abuse far outweighs the benefits and would just create an environment of hostility which would only hurt the game monetarily in the end as people left for more friendly gaming environments. I know a lot of mmo's have a kick function, such as ESO and it works out pretty well in that game, because there isn't elitism behind it, at least in my experience there.

    But the fact that it's being asked for here with already the intent being to target groups of people, no, I can't see this working out well at all. I mean first it will be the afk'ers, then it will be other groups of people.

    This game is designed to accommodate different styles of play and differently levels of play. Plain and simple, that should not change. Yes, are afk'ers annoying? Absolutely. Some people just like to watch the world burn, they are everywhere.

    Instead people should learn to utilize pre-organizing groups if they don't like afk'ers in their pugs. I mean if you're complaining about PUG mechanics, then you're kind of shouting into a void of futility. If you're PUG'ing, then you know what risks you are running and you're accepting those risks. Would it be ideal if everyone who played a game had pure, noble intentions? That would be awesome, but it's not realistic.

    It's ironic though, since afk'ers actually make the content more difficult, something a lot of the same people wanting a kick function, have been wanting lol.

    I agree totally. I was in the mirror incursion and started gettingscreamed at because i DARED have topedos on my Oddy. I am positive if a kick was in place i would have been gone. it didn't matter that I was DPSing as well if not better that they were.

    I am a long time player of this game. I find offensive and personally insulting the prejudicial ideas the both of you have about me based upon what you both posted. Just as bad a calling someone a n00b or filthy casual. Never met either of you in game or in person. Yet you look down your nose at me using the same rules and standards which you claim to be against and are in here complaining about. Makes your opinions very weak. Disappointing.
    Nope. It ain't Discovery. It ain't Picard. It's not SNW, either.
    It's your obsessive-compulsive belief that you are the only 'real' Star Trek fan around here.
  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    nabreeki wrote: »
    If you do less than 15k DPS should should get a penalty anyway.

    So you show your true colors elitest douche who would punish new folks so they never get better then you in STO.
  • anodynesanodynes Member Posts: 1,982 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Actually, they just removed the ability to pull replacement players from the queue with the infamous UI revamp. That's why the queues tend to get so much cancellation spam these days.

    Not completely. It will still replace a player that dropped with someone from the queue for some, presumably very short, window. I've only had it happen to me once during this Mirror Event, but it did happen. I got the signal and entered about as quickly as always, but the countdown time was already done and the regular timer was running. It was less then a minute into regular time, though.
    This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 4,646 Arc User
    Said it before, if the Starbase hits Zero HP that should be a fail, game over, adios. Only way to deter AFK'ers after that is by a subroutine that can detect them whilst playing live and auto-kick by itself. It's outrageous that people think they shouldn't have to wait 12 minutes for a taxi to show up! I don't see people screaming at Amazon because of their time-gates!
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • tacticoolfugga#9235 tacticoolfugga Member Posts: 377 Arc User
    The only time AFK people bother me is the Tzenkethi Red Alert. Otherwise, I don’t even notice them.
  • lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    That would kill MIA. I've played something like 100 MIA matches and the starbase has survived once at most. Since you can't keep the starbase alive AFKing is the only way of playing it.
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Said it before, if the Starbase hits Zero HP that should be a fail, game over, adios. Only way to deter AFK'ers after that is by a subroutine that can detect them whilst playing live and auto-kick by itself. It's outrageous that people think they shouldn't have to wait 12 minutes for a taxi to show up! I don't see people screaming at Amazon because of their time-gates!

  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,767 Arc User
    ssbn655 wrote: »
    nabreeki wrote: »
    If you do less than 15k DPS should should get a penalty anyway.

    So you show your true colors elitest douche who would punish new folks so they never get better then you in STO.
    Nah, breeks isn't really elitist. He/she just likes to poke the fires up whenever it looks like an argument might be petering out.
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