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Kick function

Greetings, i would like to propose to add a function for a group to kick afkers and people who's flying in cloak and dont help, and replace them with a new one player.
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  • dameron92dameron92 Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    Sad, really sad, because too many afkers in game now.
  • mephizton2092mephizton2092 Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    Less then before, most make partys on NoP, and since account unlock, afk is not needed to supply each char on your account with unlock annymore.
    It is annoying if your signing up for a non afk run.

    kick also would be used the other way, where 4 say your not afking, and they kick you out for a true afk run. (You know: player logic... ).
    I rather see the planned afk runs, then being surprised in a run with 3 afkers.
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  • admrenlarreckadmrenlarreck Member Posts: 2,041 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    I don't mind the afkers myself. I am leveling ships masterys right now so they give me more stuff to shoot. Last night I took a ship with 0 mastery xp, and got it up to level 3 in one run thanks to afkers. That being said when I do an afk run I join a premade.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    In my experience, kicking in other games has been used for trivial reasons, including "not already knowing the fight" (which does leave one with the question of how one is supposed to learn, but that's a totally different conversation) or having a screen name that someone doesn't like for some oddball reason. I don't think I've ever seen it used for afk.
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  • lopequillopequil Member Posts: 1,226 Arc User
    We do have a kick function for pre-made queues. For everything else there is, ostensibly, the facility to report to a GM.
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    In my experience, kicking in other games has been used for trivial reasons, including "not already knowing the fight" (which does leave one with the question of how one is supposed to learn, but that's a totally different conversation) or having a screen name that someone doesn't like for some oddball reason. I don't think I've ever seen it used for afk.

    I play a lot of WoW, and while I've definitely seen my fair share of kick reasons like "for the lulz", or because the tank and healer got into a pissing contest for no real reason, the vast majority have been for AFKers, trolls, and people who repeatedly refuse to follow mechanics properly and as a result cause numerous wipes. It can certainly be abused, but I will always view it as a necessary evil, and it's a real shame STO doesn't have this functionality.
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  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    In my experience, kicking in other games has been used for trivial reasons, including "not already knowing the fight" (which does leave one with the question of how one is supposed to learn, but that's a totally different conversation) or having a screen name that someone doesn't like for some oddball reason. I don't think I've ever seen it used for afk.

    I play a lot of WoW, and while I've definitely seen my fair share of kick reasons like "for the lulz", or because the tank and healer got into a pissing contest for no real reason, the vast majority have been for AFKers, trolls, and people who repeatedly refuse to follow mechanics properly and as a result cause numerous wipes. It can certainly be abused, but I will always view it as a necessary evil, and it's a real shame STO doesn't have this functionality.

    Unfortunately, with the type of players there is in STO...with a wide range of experience and ability.....the only functionality will be "trolling"....whether intentional, or not.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    lopequil wrote: »
    We do have a kick function for pre-made queues. For everything else there is, ostensibly, the facility to report to a GM.

    You know damn well that does nothing...NOTHING.
    Because "someone not playing the way I want them to" is not against the ToS.
  • lopequillopequil Member Posts: 1,226 Arc User
    > @coldnapalm said:
    > You know damn well that does nothing...NOTHING.

    Well I did say ostensibly...
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  • zerokillcf2011zerokillcf2011 Member Posts: 545 Arc User
    IF they are actually AFK. I fly around cloaked in my intel cruiser to get the 15%+ damage when I decloak, so it may appear I'm "flying around cloaked".

    But yes OP, I would agree if you have a player sitting 300km outside the space battle doing nothing, the existing AFK penalty should be MUCH longer. Like a week. lol
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    IF they are actually AFK. I fly around cloaked in my intel cruiser to get the 15%+ damage when I decloak, so it may appear I'm "flying around cloaked".

    But yes OP, I would agree if you have a player sitting 300km outside the space battle doing nothing, the existing AFK penalty should be MUCH longer. Like a week. lol
    Because the newbies don't complain enough when they get unlucky in a queue and the silly thing does its silly thing, yes?
  • orondisorondis Member Posts: 1,447 Arc User
    All for a kick option.... But only after they take away the time gating on Mirror Invasion.
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  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    I play a lot of WoW, and while I've definitely seen my fair share of kick reasons like "for the lulz", or because the tank and healer got into a pissing contest for no real reason, the vast majority have been for AFKers, trolls, and people who repeatedly refuse to follow mechanics properly and as a result cause numerous wipes. It can certainly be abused, but I will always view it as a necessary evil, and it's a real shame STO doesn't have this functionality.

    I also play WoW and don't see too much random kicking. But WoW is a subscriber game so people there are paying to be there so I would think (hope) that its a bit more 'mature' there than a F2P game population would be. Maybe just wishful thinking. :D

    One time in a dungeon, the kick box came up and the reason was "stupid boomkin". Seeing how I was the only boomkin there; I of course voted to kick. (The initiator selected the wrong player for the vote.) Some poor guy got kicked for no reason. And WoW only allows for 1 kick per team, so I was safe! :D
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    In my experience, kicking in other games has been used for trivial reasons, including "not already knowing the fight" (which does leave one with the question of how one is supposed to learn, but that's a totally different conversation) or having a screen name that someone doesn't like for some oddball reason. I don't think I've ever seen it used for afk.

    I play a lot of WoW, and while I've definitely seen my fair share of kick reasons like "for the lulz", or because the tank and healer got into a pissing contest for no real reason, the vast majority have been for AFKers, trolls, and people who repeatedly refuse to follow mechanics properly and as a result cause numerous wipes. It can certainly be abused, but I will always view it as a necessary evil, and it's a real shame STO doesn't have this functionality.
    I don't play WOW but based on your descriptions, I presume the missions there actually have non-optional mechanics to follow rather than just waiting out an auto-win timer and/or DPSsing some HP sponge until it dies. Which would be a logical reason to refrain from kicking players "for the lulz" all the time if you need them to help you win.

    As opposed to STO in which most non-Elite queues are either completely autowin or at least trivially completable with a short team or even solo.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    Well, yes, breeks, they have been catering to you and your dentist buddies... :wink:
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  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    Sadly when it come to implementing a feature into a game that gives the player the ability to affect other players, the known abusable nature of it should be taken into account, and then looked at how it compares to the good such a feature can have in the game. A good example of how a kick option might be abused just look at the spam0report system in the game, which can be abused yet the amount of good it brings is quite high.

    Where a kick option in stf is concerned it would also need to be able to look at the combat log for the stf, and determine if the player is participating in the stf. Which is doable as we know the system to do such an activity via how the game determines your reward pack quality/rank in some stfs an battle-zones. The players would merely need to start a vote kick, and then the system would automatically do a check of the activity of the player in the stf in question (could be dps wise, activity, objectives interaction wise.). This is about the only way I could see it working without needing a full-on gm online.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    asuran14 wrote: »
    Sadly when it come to implementing a feature into a game that gives the player the ability to affect other players, the known abusable nature of it should be taken into account, and then looked at how it compares to the good such a feature can have in the game. A good example of how a kick option might be abused just look at the spam0report system in the game, which can be abused yet the amount of good it brings is quite high.
    Except that's two different features you're talking about ther. The auto-mute feature is the one that gets abused and should be removed. This is entirely different from reporting actual spam which may or may not do any good depending on what they do about the reports.
    Where a kick option in stf is concerned it would also need to be able to look at the combat log for the stf, and determine if the player is participating in the stf. Which is doable as we know the system to do such an activity via how the game determines your reward pack quality/rank in some stfs an battle-zones. The players would merely need to start a vote kick, and then the system would automatically do a check of the activity of the player in the stf in question (could be dps wise, activity, objectives interaction wise.). This is about the only way I could see it working without needing a full-on gm online.
    The game already has a so-called AFK penalty system that is supposed to automatically determine if a player is "participating." All this has ever accomplished is punishing new and/or casual players who get randomly assigned to the same queue with high-DPS players they can't keep up with.
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    asuran14 wrote: »
    Sadly when it come to implementing a feature into a game that gives the player the ability to affect other players, the known abusable nature of it should be taken into account, and then looked at how it compares to the good such a feature can have in the game. A good example of how a kick option might be abused just look at the spam0report system in the game, which can be abused yet the amount of good it brings is quite high.
    Except that's two different features you're talking about ther. The auto-mute feature is the one that gets abused and should be removed. This is entirely different from reporting actual spam which may or may not do any good depending on what they do about the reports.
    Where a kick option in stf is concerned it would also need to be able to look at the combat log for the stf, and determine if the player is participating in the stf. Which is doable as we know the system to do such an activity via how the game determines your reward pack quality/rank in some stfs an battle-zones. The players would merely need to start a vote kick, and then the system would automatically do a check of the activity of the player in the stf in question (could be dps wise, activity, objectives interaction wise.). This is about the only way I could see it working without needing a full-on gm online.
    The game already has a so-called AFK penalty system that is supposed to automatically determine if a player is "participating." All this has ever accomplished is punishing new and/or casual players who get randomly assigned to the same queue with high-DPS players they can't keep up with.

    But the muting is part of that same system, you report spam an it blocks the player for you, but also if enough players report the same player they are also muted for a duration. As a whole the system has both caused problems, but also good in the game overall. Not two separate systems, but two different parts of a singular system. Even just looking at it from the fact of the auto-mute system it does help weed out off-topic, vulgar, or truly spam messages in chat via well muting specific players that do them.

    The problem to me with the AFK system is less that it is punishing for new/casual player, but that content geared/tuned for higher-end/hard-core players is just not rewarding or engaging enough to appeal to them, which causes them to enter into content that more casual/lower-end players are in.

    Yet even just by the system itself the afk-system comes into effect too late honestly, hitting a player with a Afk penalty after they had finished the stf is just weird, since they have already affected that group of players they were with. It would be better to have the system determine it during the match, and be via the party voting for a AFK/participation-check during the mission/stf, than the stf/mission might be salvaged for that party.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    asuran14 wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    asuran14 wrote: »
    Sadly when it come to implementing a feature into a game that gives the player the ability to affect other players, the known abusable nature of it should be taken into account, and then looked at how it compares to the good such a feature can have in the game. A good example of how a kick option might be abused just look at the spam0report system in the game, which can be abused yet the amount of good it brings is quite high.
    Except that's two different features you're talking about ther. The auto-mute feature is the one that gets abused and should be removed. This is entirely different from reporting actual spam which may or may not do any good depending on what they do about the reports.
    Where a kick option in stf is concerned it would also need to be able to look at the combat log for the stf, and determine if the player is participating in the stf. Which is doable as we know the system to do such an activity via how the game determines your reward pack quality/rank in some stfs an battle-zones. The players would merely need to start a vote kick, and then the system would automatically do a check of the activity of the player in the stf in question (could be dps wise, activity, objectives interaction wise.). This is about the only way I could see it working without needing a full-on gm online.
    The game already has a so-called AFK penalty system that is supposed to automatically determine if a player is "participating." All this has ever accomplished is punishing new and/or casual players who get randomly assigned to the same queue with high-DPS players they can't keep up with.

    But the muting is part of that same system, you report spam an it blocks the player for you, but also if enough players report the same player they are also muted for a duration. As a whole the system has both caused problems, but also good in the game overall. Not two separate systems, but two different parts of a singular system. Even just looking at it from the fact of the auto-mute system it does help weed out off-topic, vulgar, or truly spam messages in chat via well muting specific players that do them.
    I disagree. There is no evidence whatsoever that auto-muting players is anything but trollbait.
    The problem to me with the AFK system is less that it is punishing for new/casual player, but that content geared/tuned for higher-end/hard-core players is just not rewarding or engaging enough to appeal to them, which causes them to enter into content that more casual/lower-end players are in.
    That's not a problem of the AFK system. The problem of the AFK system is that a) it doesn't actually stop you from AFKing and b) that it is at all possible for players to be falsely punished for being in a group of different skill levels (or using a strategy that isn't based on shooting things in missions like Azure Nebula).
    Yet even just by the system itself the afk-system comes into effect too late honestly, hitting a player with a Afk penalty after they had finished the stf is just weird, since they have already affected that group of players they were with. It would be better to have the system determine it during the match, and be via the party voting for a AFK/participation-check during the mission/stf, than the stf/mission might be salvaged for that party.
    How would kicking a player off the mission and running it one player short "salvage" anything? It's trollbait, nothing more.

    Especially considering the mission this debate inevitably applies to (=mirror), the only part of the mission that actually requires anything is at the end.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    warpangel wrote: »
    The game already has a so-called AFK penalty system that is supposed to automatically determine if a player is "participating." All this has ever accomplished is punishing new and/or casual players who get randomly assigned to the same queue with high-DPS players they can't keep up with.

    Not just new or casual. I admit I am casual, but I'm also on the high end of casual, with the ability to average 10k minimum in most of my cruiser builds so I can pull my own weight.

    Just... not against three megawell builds. My MAIN got an AFK ban from STFs, in a Kelvin Connie rocking mk XIV Kelvin Phasers, Kemocite 1, and AP Beta. A ship I once out DPSed a fleetmate who is hardcore Antiproton before he got his Vengeance class.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,540 Arc User
    nabreeki wrote: »
    STO players can't handle a kick option responsibility. You have to know your audience, and PWE has been banking on the lowest common denominator for years.

    nabreeki is correct.
    OP, I worked damned hard for that ship with the Romulan battle cloak. Took me months to grind put enough Zen to earn it. Easy to come in here with a low post count and start yet another nonsense thread about an FCT topic because the player using his ship and gear the way it is intended to be used doesn't suit you. Who the Hell are You to decide things like this?

    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    Kick functions would be abused indeed. In many different ways.

    I have been in instances of Infected ground (I know, different mission than Mirror Invasion but still) where I would be the only one saving the starbase personnel, thus being the only one taking care of one of the objectives of the mission.

    So sometimes, by the time we reach the final room with Simmons, I just stay outside. I'm never really AFK, but I think I've deserved a break when I've done more than my fair share of the work.

    I know, it's PUGging and I should expect to get teammates that are less well geared or have less knowledge of the mission etc. But when they don't even try, despite friendly hints being given, it's different. Same as when I kill as many enemies as the rest of the team combined in other ground missions, in less time too. Then I think I deserve to take a small break and give others also a chance to play their part.


    Of course it's different if someone isn't doing anything at all; but still. Kicking someone because they seem not to do what they ought to do, is the kind of power that shouldn't be in the hands of players who can misjudge cases. Whether someone is truly AFK is subjective anyway because players might have different standards as to what would be required and can be expected of each player (i.e., just keep shooting while you've already shot more enemies than the rest of the team combined), as I hope my example here illustrates.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    Kicks are not really effective for one reason... ABUSE by folks who are on a power trip to make others miserable or are control freaks who want everyone to play "the right way" in others words play just like them or else. Played WOW and saw way to much abuse of the kick with it being used the most by "elite" players who would kick others during loot rolls so those players who needed the gear never got even a chance at it. Longer AFK penalty is a better would go so far as a week but a 24 hour account lockout maybe. But there is always a chance a player would get hit with one for no real good reason it happens (some pve's when uber DPS or dkilled pilots wipe the npc's before lesser geared ships get a shot off for one) far to often as it is so maybe that would be to extreme shrug.
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