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Would adding Reputation Marks as a Fleet Holding currency bring you back to PvE ?

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  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    Yes If it breathes life back into empty queues
    I like this idea, it beats doing those crappy mini games they keep chucking out for things and gets people in more queues since you can require different amounts of multiple types of marks for each project to get people in to different queues. Gives you more of a reason to pew pew and upgrade ships and gears then sit around playing mini games which doesn't need gear upgrade investments.

    Maybe something like:

    1000 fleet marks
    4000 dilithium
    100 borg neural processors
    100 scavenged tech upgrades
    500 omega marks

    and just shuffle/balance as needed to hit other reps. Seriously the only thing we're doing with that stuff after getting our set pieces is turning that stuff in to purple rocks.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • keladorkelador Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    I would say they need to get rid of some the older queues and invest some time of improving them I like some of the ideas posted in this thread:

    1. Reduce the number of Queues
    2. Improve/make them more interesting improve boss mechanics.
    3. Introduce a rotating highlighted Queue of the day with double rewards or something extra for running it
    4. Bring back mission fails no rewards if you fail objectives in adv etc.
    5. Remove choice of marks from Queues make it so you can only get a certain type from a certain Queue like it was for the older queues.
    6. Queues that take longer to complete should have a higher reward right now people do the faster queues and avoid the longer ones as the rewards are the same.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    Isn't this covered already (in most recent queues)? There is a often choice between rep marks and fleet marks. Updating the older queues (which offer only rep) might be all that's necessary to effectively implement the OP's idea (and it would just be applying a modern trend consistently across PVE's).
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    As the title says would adding the various rep marks to fleet holding projects entice you back to playing PvE ?

    It would give older PvE queues where the Reputation system has been finished a reason outside of A. Earning marks for Dil and B. Playing for fun.

    Throwing bad after bad doesn't make a good, it just keeps it bad. To change a bad it must be replaced with a good and the only way to do that is by change which is something people have a hard time accepting. Cryptic is good at change, they pull out the old content and it's never seen again and the new content is put in place and there is no debate about it.

    To make PVE queues active again there must be a different way of going about it, something that will constantly keep the players going to them, something to make the effort worth the trouble. The biggest issue is the grind and how easily the queue system is exploited as well as the general lack of real depth to them as most of them are over in under a few minutes.
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  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    Isn't this covered already (in most recent queues)? There is a often choice between rep marks and fleet marks. Updating the older queues (which offer only rep) might be all that's necessary to effectively implement the OP's idea (and it would just be applying a modern trend consistently across PVE's).

    This would achieve literally "nothing". People would still just take the path of least resistance and would probably just farm the Borg STF's and CCA as they already do.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    It literally maters not one iota what they do to the volume of queues, or the reward structure of them if there is still the ability to get universal choice of marks from Red Alerts.
    Because all people do (on the whole, not everyone of course) is gravitate towards the path of least resistance, the easy way to acquire X mark type. Need Omega marks - RA, need Iconian marks - RA, need Delta marks - RA......literally zero reason to even fight the actual enemy for the reputation to progress.

    If you want to get people playing various queues again one of the first things you must do it remove the universal aspect of RA rewards. Then at the very least people MUST play the various queues to gather the different marks. That is after all the whole bloody point of the reputation system!!!!
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  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    the bulk of my rep marks are earned once a year during crystal entity event...dont ever bother with elite marks.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,867 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    kelador wrote: »
    I would say they need to get rid of some the older queues and invest some time of improving them I like some of the ideas posted in this thread:
    1. Reduce the number of Queues

    I'm also in agreement with this point (less so on the others, no-rewards on fail [for example] was unsuccessful and nothing has fundamentally changed in STO to suggest that a second attempt would yield better results.) Reducing the number of queues is a necessary step to improving the distribution of the PVE population. It's simply too spread out across a playlist system which is several orders of magnitude greater in scale than any analog I can cite in gaming. People may want to avoid having content taken away from them, but if it's not playable in the first place then that fear is strictly academic.

    One easy step could be to stratify difficulty settings. It's important to have choices at the start of a season but, once a PVE enters the long dark teatime of supplanted life, there's plenty of other choices and a greater priority in simply finding a game.

    So, pick one setting of each flagging PVE (eg. normal, advanced, elite) that makes the most sense (based on need and popularity) and scrap the rest in the public queues. Private games would be unaffected (so if you have a group that wants to play one thing, they'll always have the option.) This could remove up to (but not quite in practice) 2/3rds of the bloat in the PVE system in one step without drastically affecting the basic gameplay on offer. This in turn would concentrate wandering PVE players who aren't grinding the customary PVE's at that moment.

    This would direclty increase the probability of finding some other kind of match. And with more viable secondary options, grinding the same PVE's becomes less necessary for reliably finding a public PVE match. So, people have more opportunities to branch out and the queue populations may even out a bit (without yet entering into any question of rewards tweaks and improving gameplay. Those can come after, where warranted, to further smooth things out.)
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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,102 Arc User
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    As the title says would adding the various rep marks to fleet holding projects entice you back to playing PvE ?

    It would give older PvE queues where the Reputation system has been finished a reason outside of A. Earning marks for Dil and B. Playing for fun.

    Since there are a lot of popular still run PvE queues that award every type of Rep Mark; what makes you believe doing this would see people playing the older queues they never cared for?

    Your suggestion doesn't change the actual issue.
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  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    It might sound weird yet I would not mind if doing group-content repeatedly gave a sort of diminishing return. What I mean is that if you ran for instance either a specific red alert (or just red alerts) several times in a row you would see the rewards you get form such content reduced, and so making stfs abit more appealing to run. The issue with this idea is how long would this diminished rewards last on that content prior to resetting, to keep both the fact of it making other content more appealing an yet not seeming to be completely unfair.

    Though i will say that if the devs had instituted a form of damage output limiter to the different stf difficulties, than the need for hard time-gates might have not needed to be used, since such a limiter would keep completion times in check against power-creep. While also it would have seen the different lengths/complexity of stfs a closer reward-time ratio making it more appealing to run them, than currently it is.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    As it has been said a few times. It's the route in which one can get the marks. Which can be done in 6 easy steps.

    First off, remove the choice mark from RA's. These should only reward the mark of their given reputation.

    Second, remove choice marks from every queue we have. I mean all of them. Have each queue only give their corresponding reputation mark.

    Third, place a mark reward on all the fleet actions, these should be the only ones to award fleet marks.

    Fourth, remove CCA entirely and return it to the yearly event that is started off as.

    Fifth, buff the queues so they're at least challenging to do. Right now, it is more difficult to watch paint dry than it is do the queues.

    Sixth, grab beer, sit back and watch hilarity ensue with queue system and forums blow up with irate "this is to hard" posts.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • alexvio1alexvio1 Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    Fourth, remove CCA entirely and return it to the yearly event that is started off as.

    If they will do that I will exit from the game because it's the only queue that rewards acceptable amount of the fleet marks, also it's very fast queue.
  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »

    Fifth, buff the queues so they're at least challenging to do. Right now, it is more difficult to watch paint dry than it is do the queues.

    Sixth, grab beer, sit back and watch hilarity ensue with queue system and forums blow up with irate "this is to hard" posts.

    But ! but ! its too hard to make challenging content and NPC'S smarter, how about a hit point and shield buff and to top it off a level cap increase where you can run patrols in between Feature Episodes ?.



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    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    trennan wrote: »

    Fifth, buff the queues so they're at least challenging to do. Right now, it is more difficult to watch paint dry than it is do the queues.

    Sixth, grab beer, sit back and watch hilarity ensue with queue system and forums blow up with irate "this is to hard" posts.

    But ! but ! its too hard to make challenging content and NPC'S smarter, how about a hit point and shield buff and to top it off a level cap increase where you can run patrols in between Feature Episodes ?.



    Right now, I'd almost agree to that. Just for the added challenge. Though I do wish they'd make the patrols more than once per character. I'd at least have something to do then. I only run the FE's once or twice. I only bother with the episodes, if they contain a piece of gear I might need for a build I'm working on.

    Other than that, I can queue up for everything and go to it, without ever bothering with being in my ship. I can just stand next to the bank or exchange on DS9.
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  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    trennan wrote: »

    Fifth, buff the queues so they're at least challenging to do. Right now, it is more difficult to watch paint dry than it is do the queues.

    Sixth, grab beer, sit back and watch hilarity ensue with queue system and forums blow up with irate "this is to hard" posts.

    But ! but ! its too hard to make challenging content and NPC'S smarter, how about a hit point and shield buff and to top it off a level cap increase where you can run patrols in between Feature Episodes ?.



    Right now, I'd almost agree to that. Just for the added challenge. Though I do wish they'd make the patrols more than once per character. I'd at least have something to do then. I only run the FE's once or twice. I only bother with the episodes, if they contain a piece of gear I might need for a build I'm working on.

    Other than that, I can queue up for everything and go to it, without ever bothering with being in my ship. I can just stand next to the bank or exchange on DS9.

    You could say it would be the best expansion ever and the players love it. wink ! wink !
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    trennan wrote: »
    entirely and return it to the yearly event that is started off as.
    Actually your wrong there, CCA started off as a wandering space encounter/fleet action.
    In fact what they need to do is simply just roll it back to an earlier iteration. It actually used to require strategy and teamwork, but it was dumbed down because the casuals couldn't bother with using their brains.
    Back in the day AoE spam was a sure fire way to fail as the shards would shatter into small pieces and fly back to the entity and heal it back up.
    Of course the rewards sucked already then, which is once again why something more special and tangible than just "more marks and dil" is needed to motivate people into participating in difficult head scratching content.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    It literally maters not one iota what they do to the volume of queues, or the reward structure of them if there is still the ability to get universal choice of marks from Red Alerts.
    Because all people do (on the whole, not everyone of course) is gravitate towards the path of least resistance, the easy way to acquire X mark type. Need Omega marks - RA, need Iconian marks - RA, need Delta marks - RA......literally zero reason to even fight the actual enemy for the reputation to progress.

    If you want to get people playing various queues again one of the first things you must do it remove the universal aspect of RA rewards. Then at the very least people MUST play the various queues to gather the different marks. That is after all the whole bloody point of the reputation system!!!!
    So much this. Borg Red Alerts are so easy you can solo them... Yet they give you any kind of mark you could want.
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  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    It literally maters not one iota what they do to the volume of queues, or the reward structure of them if there is still the ability to get universal choice of marks from Red Alerts.
    Because all people do (on the whole, not everyone of course) is gravitate towards the path of least resistance, the easy way to acquire X mark type. Need Omega marks - RA, need Iconian marks - RA, need Delta marks - RA......literally zero reason to even fight the actual enemy for the reputation to progress.

    If you want to get people playing various queues again one of the first things you must do it remove the universal aspect of RA rewards. Then at the very least people MUST play the various queues to gather the different marks. That is after all the whole bloody point of the reputation system!!!!
    So much this. Borg Red Alerts are so easy you can solo them... Yet they give you any kind of mark you could want.

    Yeah I really don't get that, they used to only give Omega marks.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    They did so when the Red Alerts went to PVE Queues. Borg was sort of special for about half a year after conversion. It gave out Omega Marks and Choice Marks. When they got 'fully' implemented into the new PVE UI, they dropped the separate Omega Marks Reward.

    They should just simplify the Marks/Reputation system similar to what is done in LOTRO. They use Marks/Medallions and Seals (not the kind that balance beachballs on their nose). Then each Faction has a Reputation Track with a number of levels, each unlocking additional Items and Perks. Much simpler
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  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    alexvio1 wrote: »
    trennan wrote: »
    Fourth, remove CCA entirely and return it to the yearly event that is started off as.

    If they will do that I will exit from the game because it's the only queue that rewards acceptable amount of the fleet marks, also it's very fast queue.

    Yeah I'm not a fan of removing content.

    I still miss Mind Trap and NWS with a passion.

    Was talking about the Colony Invasion Dranuur mission with a fleetmate last night, and we were discussing strategy like having at least one engi at each shield generator ect.
    But then we got to comparing how its kind of similar to Mind Trap (less running around obviously and more straight forward PewPew).. But the team aspects of it were making us pine for the old days when we could get our fleet to man up 20 players and crush Mind Trap.


    I miss that mission so frikken much, actually makes me a little sad thinking about it...
    It really had a bit of everything... Team zones, defensive strategy, collecting and reinforcing each area, defending the escapees until the shuttles arrived....
    Sigh...
    Times have certainly changed.

    Eh, I guess all I'm saying is I'd rather they avoid removing content options when it's not absolutely necessary.

    Seems like we lost several missions already for little to no reason. *shrug*
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    Yes If it breathes life back into empty queues
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    It literally maters not one iota what they do to the volume of queues, or the reward structure of them if there is still the ability to get universal choice of marks from Red Alerts.
    Because all people do (on the whole, not everyone of course) is gravitate towards the path of least resistance, the easy way to acquire X mark type. Need Omega marks - RA, need Iconian marks - RA, need Delta marks - RA......literally zero reason to even fight the actual enemy for the reputation to progress.

    If you want to get people playing various queues again one of the first things you must do it remove the universal aspect of RA rewards. Then at the very least people MUST play the various queues to gather the different marks. That is after all the whole bloody point of the reputation system!!!!
    So much this. Borg Red Alerts are so easy you can solo them... Yet they give you any kind of mark you could want.

    Yeah I really don't get that, they used to only give Omega marks.

    The red alerts should stop giving marks and just give ECs and a decent size at that to offset marks and dil loss. That way people have to que for other instances to get the marks they need/want.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    For one the alerts should go back to being ALERTS. Popping up randomly for at a time, do it now or wait for the next one. Turning them into always-on queues removed yet another layer of interest in the game. And yes, relevant marks only of course.

    And they don't need to remove CCA. It's good to have some fast easy missions, too. Something for everyone. But they do need to fix the reward structures so that longer and harder missions give proportionally more reward than the fast easy ones.

    I would like to see the old CC return as an Elite version, as well. No reason we couldn't have both. And Mine Trap, NWS, all the other removed queues.

    But ultimately, only unique rewards will ever get them all populated.
  • orondisorondis Member Posts: 1,447 Arc User
    Regarding reputation marks vs dilithium, you have to refine dilithium before you can use it. Using reputation marks will mean you can ignore the refinement cap.

    Frankly though, we have about 97 queues (including the different difficulties), nothing is going to get them all buzzing everyday. On top of that some offer insignificant rewards, some require actual tactics and thought that the majority of the playerbase don't care about (Borg Disconnected is hilariously easy for example, as long as you don't treat it as a DPS race), some require some teamwork which the majority of the playerbase are incapable of.
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  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    So much this. Borg Red Alerts are so easy you can solo them... Yet they give you any kind of mark you could want.

    Just as an aside. I can't solo the Borg RA. Also, I've been in one this year that failed (I think one person left, everyone kept dying, and the probes eventually migrated into the respawn area, so the constantly dying people died where they spawned. Timer ran out.)


    Anyway, I just started doing Borg RA this past spring. If it lost it's marks, I'd just go back to getting them the way I did from ~2013-2017: grinding up Winter & Summer pets. /shrug
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    kiralyn wrote: »
    So much this. Borg Red Alerts are so easy you can solo them... Yet they give you any kind of mark you could want.

    Just as an aside. I can't solo the Borg RA. Also, I've been in one this year that failed (I think one person left, everyone kept dying, and the probes eventually migrated into the respawn area, so the constantly dying people died where they spawned. Timer ran out.)


    Anyway, I just started doing Borg RA this past spring. If it lost it's marks, I'd just go back to getting them the way I did from ~2013-2017: grinding up Winter & Summer pets. /shrug
    Well, it's not EASY, but possible. the main thing you need to remember is to bring counters to the main tricks the Borg use to try and disable you.
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  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »

    So they try something a little different, they create Competitive marks queus, with items that only work in competitive marks play, and guess what?

    you can get the marks doing the same easy content you were already doing, and all the gear associated, more efficiently (because those easy queues are actually populated whereas the competitive ones aren't).

    and...what happens? yeah.

    this isn't by accident, it's by design.


    It is a dam shame the competitive queues rarely pop. I rather quite like Binary Circuit and would run that multiples daily if I could. Getting it to pop once is a miracle and usually I have to do it in the late hours UK time.


    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    I don't necessarily think it is a bad idea, but I also think it wouldn't be that effective.

    Even if they did this, it would likely only replace fleet marks as they probably wouldn't remove the dilithium requirements from projects. And how many fleets are in need of fleet marks? Not many I think.


    It would also matter how much reputation marks would pay. Since each mark is worth 10 dilithium, they would have to pay out well in terms of credits. But then you get back to the problem that, over the years, we've had countless threads where people (rightfully) argued that fleet marks give too many credits compared to dilithium.
    Making reputation marks pay a lot of credits might be more justified since they're already worth dilithium (basically it's just dilithium in another form), but then they will likely quickly replace fleet marks and those would have little reason to exist anymore.



    Personally I think it would make more sense to remove marks from all other sources. But that idea might get some opposition - which would be understandable as well as it would mean less options, and that's usually not a nice thing.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    I think they did a good job with the provisions for the colony holding. Not 'good' in the sense 'I like these mini-games' but they certainly got a lot of players to be active in the content that rewards these provisions. The Simulation channel for instance, may well be the most active channel I've seen in a while.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    edited November 2017
    There needs to be an alternative solution to getting the PvE queues populated again
    There used to be dedicated STF channels that were super active back in the day when you were required to play ALL the Borg STF's to collect all the sets.

    Simulations remind me so much of those glorious days.
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
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