Why won't the devs say what works with what?

postinggum · September 2017

Why can't we look up what things trigger a particular thing to function? I don't mean that facetiously, I really don't understand why the basic info required to play a complex game is not available.

Even if a full list is too big for a tooltip there ought to be a text file, web page or spreadsheet that has a comprehensive list of what is intended to trigger something. Ideally there also be a ship builder app that would calculate the synergies on a build and show how various things will vary when powers are triggered - I'd rather have that than anything the cstore has to offer.

ssbn655 · September 2017

postinggum wrote: »

Why can't we look up what things trigger a particular thing to function? I don't mean that facetiously, I really don't understand why the basic info required to play a complex game is not available.

Even if a full list is too big for a tooltip there ought to be a text file, web page or spreadsheet that has a comprehensive list of what is intended to trigger something. Ideally there also be a ship builder app that would calculate the synergies on a build and show how various things will vary when powers are triggered - I'd rather have that than anything the cstore has to offer.

There is tons of information on how things work in the game online. No need for the Devs to be pulled away from thier job making content. Heck I have yet to see a game where how things get triggered by gear is set out in the game. Always vague hints thats it.

postinggum · September 2017

ssbn655 wrote: »

postinggum wrote: »

There is tons of information on how things work in the game online. No need for the Devs to be pulled away from thier job making content. Heck I have yet to see a game where how things get triggered by gear is set out in the game. Always vague hints thats it.

No there isn't, its why I ask here in general and from time to time in the academy forum. Its a particular issue in this game for two reasons, complexity and the real world money transactions people make buying stuff that is not explained.

If ssbn655 thinks its so easy to find out what triggers something perhaps you could answer some of my questions in the academy forum.

meimeitoo · September 2017

Almost all MMO's have a rather steep learning curve. It can't be otherwise, even, as there's simply too much to learn at once, so you'll always be overwhelmed at first. If you think STO is hard, though, try EvE Online, which was 17x harder (for me, at least).

silverlobes · September 2017

I remember back in the day, there were printed walkthrough guides available for the GTA series, which had stats on the weapons, vehicles, maps, best order of engagement to complete a mission easily, etc. Something like that for STO, would be a rather nice addition. Of course, I've just realized the only problem with that idea, is that with the GTA games, once it was coded and pressed to a CD, that was that, the statistics were the statistics. But with STO, stuff is potentially able to change at every patch or maintenance, which could render such a book unreliable... Oh well...

ltminns · September 2017

Ah, the old days playing a strategy PC game from SSI. You'd get an almost two hundred page book that had tables and tables of values and formulas of how things were calculated.

theussvoyager · September 2017

https://sto.gamepedia.com/Main_Page
and the STO Reddit

where2r1 · September 2017

That's the whole fun of playing STO....puzzling out the way things work with each other!

And HOW IT WORKS with what you have set up on your individual character: from skill tree, to collected ships, to traits, to specializations etc...etc...

And there is so many ways to combine it...it comes down to: can you get it to work for your intended results???

postinggum · September 2017

Its not fun if you buy a ship just for the trait or pay zen to respec and then have to spend time on the wiki, tooltips and reddit and the answer just doesn't isn't known, then post a question here and don't get an answer.

Its not fun guessing before grinding/buying when there are 100+ boff abilities, 100+ space sets, 80ish starship traits, 40+ unlockable space traits, 100ish universal consoles and 100+ doffs, with the good starship traits costing a huge amount of grinding or real world money.

At cryptic they must have a live doucment(s) that detail this stuff, unless they don't.

For example you see something like triggered by 'control power', sounds simple enough but in both space and ground there will be a more things that it could apply and doesn't, than it actually works for.

hillard1959 · September 2017

My personal rule of thumb is this: when a tooltip is vague, they're probably not talking about specialization powers. Control powers, in that case, would be base game powers such as Gravity Well or any other base power that controls enemy ships. They're probably not talking about things such as Timeline Collapse, which is a temporal ability.

YMMV, of course, but that's been my experience.

Edit: This also applies to lockbox skills, which, while powerful, are often gimmicky and fiddly and may or may not be affected.

postinggum · September 2017

I don't think they'd even need to list every ability for every trait/bonus, just put each power into a category and say something like trait/bonus x is triggered by ability types a and e and but not b, c, d, e and f, and nothing else. Also specify duration and magnitude of effect(s) rather than say things like minor or short duration.

A big problem now is that so many things have mulitple effects its unclear how something will be treated in any given case. I'm not even that annoyed by any particular power not working a particulr boost, its just the needless opacity thats so frustrating.

arionisa · September 2017

If you add in the fact that way too often things interact with things they weren't intended to, and don't interact with things they were intended to, any list they did publish likely wouldn't be accurate anyway.

I do it the easy way, I wait for the "experts" to test the living TRIBBLE out of it and publish their results, then I decide if I want it or not.

Note: Experts is in quotes not as sarcasm but as an acknowledgement that not everyone considers them experts, and a lot of them don't even call themselves experts.

baddmoonrizin · September 2017

OP, your best bet is the player community and the resources that they've pointed out. Odd as it may seem, many of them know how things interact and what works best with what better than some of the devs seem to due to the extensive testing/playing that they do. Good luck.

meimeitoo · September 2017

postinggum wrote: »

At cryptic they must have a live doucment(s) that detail this stuff, unless they don't.

You'd be surprised at how little they know.

Sure, they're Devs, and know a whole lot. But when it comes to synergies (aka, what meshes well with what), they often appear as lost as the majority of the player base. I say, that's why so many things appear OP, after they've been introduced: because even the Devs apparently have no good model to predict/oversee all (often ridiculously OP) interactions from stacking certain abilities a certain way. The amount of permutations is simply too large, and Devs have limited time to test it all out exhaustively, whereas the player base has a sheer endless amount of time to meticulously figure out how to obain the often very OP results (that then need to be nerfed/fixed).

disqord · September 2017

Honestly, I wouldn't mind having a little tooltip list some important stats for equipments. I mean, it's impossible to tell when something is an assault, pistol, or rifle weapon when it's a palm blaster or wrist lance or whip. And something as simple as a tooltip for what torpedos and mines (Yes, mines) actually do and do not work with high yield and spread or dispersal patterns.

And also, while I'm here, there are just so many kit modules that are unaffected by kit performance, it's kinda depressing, especially when it's marketed as increasing all modules' stats.

Unknown · September 2017

This content has been removed.

Unknown · September 2017

This content has been removed.

postinggum · September 2017

When they release a trait or doff they should know what it works with.

paddy · September 2017

ltminns wrote: »

Ah, the old days playing a strategy PC game from SSI. You'd get an almost two hundred page book that had tables and tables of values and formulas of how things were calculated.

Used to love SSI games. Panzer General was pretty addictive.

Staying on topic, for me it's more fun to just try new things. Besides, judging by what the devs release I'm not one hundred percent sure that they know what everything does, how it interacts with other objects, or how an item will influence or detract from the game. It almost seems some times that they look at an idea and say "cool, do that" and poof it's a reward item.

ssbn655 · September 2017

Ah got to love the OP's tired lament "real world money" got news for you sunshine if you put as much effort into the admirality and rep as you do in the forums you would have tons of dilth along with tons of EC to spend. Sigh OP you are just another whiner who wants everything handed to them. You want everyone else to do your research for you as you are reluctant to take a few minutes looking up things on your own. Maybe you need to play a simpler game like tis tac toe then a game that has myrid permutations like STO does with it's gear and trait interactions. I would have been far more kinder if in your first posting here you would have asked "Hey are there any guides on how things work in the game." But nope you went the other route when told there are numerous sources.

postinggum · September 2017

ssbn655 I'm really not game poor. My point is that you can't look things up as the info isn't there and often the player base hasn't put it together either. A player shouldn't have a choice of buying things blind or having to run a second copy of the game just to access the other server where they can do what cryptic ought to have done in the first place.

SSI games are out there now published by Slitherine for example Panzer Corps, on PC and mobile, with tons of addons, the websites that enable people to sell unwanted download game codes might be worth a browse.

dracounguis · September 2017

postinggum wrote: »

Why can't we look up what things trigger a particular thing to function? I don't mean that facetiously, I really don't understand why the basic info required to play a complex game is not available.

Even if a full list is too big for a tooltip there ought to be a text file, web page or spreadsheet that has a comprehensive list of what is intended to trigger something. Ideally there also be a ship builder app that would calculate the synergies on a build and show how various things will vary when powers are triggered - I'd rather have that than anything the cstore has to offer.

I agree that they need to be more concise with their wording. If something says it boosts 'exotic' damage, for example, then any powers that are 'exotic' based need to clearly say they are. Other than that, I'm fine with limited tooltips.

Unknown · September 2017

This content has been removed.

Why won't the devs say what works with what?

Comments