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Return of The Dominion: The Speculation Thread

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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    I would like to imagine that there was no secret plot by the Iconians to defeat The Dominion.

    Nothing in "Sphere of Influence" mentions any sort of covert action being taken directly against them, and only mentions trying to keep the gateways hidden from The Dominion, and staying the hell out of their way until they had conquered the Alpha and Beta quadrants, and thus, had the resources to fight them head on.
    Som.... your arguments seem to be based on a general misunderstanding of the information presented in-game.

    Here's a question you obviously never considered: Who wrote the information in that computer database you keep quoting?

    And a related question: what race built the facility?

    Yeah... two questions, one answer. So treating any of it as definitive proof of what the Iconians plan to do is dumb.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • cactolithcactolith Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    O.o
  • mailman650mailman650 Member Posts: 159 Arc User
    They simply returned because someone forgot their wallet in the Beta Quadrant.
  • daviddxxdaviddxx Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    My only request "NO MORE SELA" thank you that is all

    ya.. please NO MORE SELA ..
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    David
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    She's got nothing else to do except attend conventions.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
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    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    While the bulk of the information supporting the Invincible Dominion thesis is soft canon at best, (and given what the various entities have done with hard canon, I personally doubt its long term viability,) let us accept it at face value for the moment. (I reserve the right to argue against it later, this is just for the sake of argument.)

    Large centrally controlled empires are inherently unstable from both internal and external pressures. The tendency for powerful persons in distant provinces to build little empires of their own cannot be overlooked, but the biggest issue is that the larger the empire, the larger the border, requiring an ever greater expenditure of resources just to maintain the borders you have. Given the travel times between the center and the border as the primary variable, there is a maximum size an empire can reach before it lacks the resources to protect what it has. This is a geometry problem, not a social one. Even without wars, empires which exceed this ratio of internal volume versus border area collapse or become vulnerable to internal rebellion and external aggression.

    Imperial China is a prime example. The various segments of The Great Wall were built not to keep out the Mongol Hordes, but to restrict trade to points where tax assessors could control it, because even with the massive numbers of soldiers at the Emperor's command, the Empire was incapable of fielding enough troops to patrol the frontiers. But even with the Walls, time and again, the 'barbarians' came in to take a slice of Imperial pie, and the only thing the Chinese could do about it, even with their technological and military superiority, was to eventually intermarry with the barbarians until they were indistinguishable from the local population. There is no doubt that for much of human history the various dynasties which we Westerners call China were the most powerful, technologically advanced, and militarily sophisticated people on the planet, but there were multiple invasions which ended with a foriegner on the throne. The last Emperor of China, who died in 1967, was a Manchu, and not Chinese at all.

    Imperial Rome is another example. Conquering Britain seemed like a good idea at the time, but little bitty Scotland put an end to the growth of the Empire in the British Isles, costing the Romans more than they could gain from further expansion. Why? Rome was so big and Scotland so small, and also a land of competing clans who were never unified at any point during the conflict with Rome. Well, there were other provinces that needed manpower. The German border required massive support, as did Thracia, and Hispania, Libya and Egypt, and Palestine. Scotland survived unconquered by Rome because they foolishly expanded beyond their capacity to defend their borders. Eventually, Emperor Diocletian recognized this and divided the Empire into an Eastern and Western Roman Empire, but it was already too late and the Western half fell quickly to barbarians who raided Rome itself, in spite of the massive disparity between the numbers of the Legions and the numbers of the Barbarians. Because most of the legions were hard pressed to hold what they had, abandoning the outer provinces to save Rome would have meant the end of Rome anyway due to its dependence upon tribute from those provinces. So the numbers of troops needed to defend Rome were available, but could not be used for anything but what they were already doing.

    The Dominion has yet another geometry problem: the legions had to defend a circle, but the Dominion must defend a sphere, meaning the border area is 4 × pi × radius squared rather than pi × radius. This massive surface area must be defended from the barbarians, and this completely discounts the need for internal security, just in case someone disobeys a Vorta and needs to be killed. So, that second 2800: which border are you going to weaken to get them to the fight? Because there are always barbarians waiting for a slice of Imperial pie, and local garisson commanders who think they'd look good in a crown, and rebels wanting to blow up death stars... oh, sorry, wrong franchise. Anyway, it's certain that in an empire founded on and controlled by fear, there are certain to be people who think it would be a fine thing to live without the empire, and removing troops from the region smells a lot like opportunity to me.

    So, out of context assertions by writing staff aside, the Dominion cannot be as powerful as it is said to be without generating equally powerful forces which want to tear it apart.

    And we know so little about all those trillions of oppressed people who yearn to be free.

    So, no. I reject the Invulnerable Empire thesis. It cannot happen. It defies logic even to postulate the existence of such an entity. The more powerful an Empire becomes, the more speedily that Empire's overthrow becomes inevitable. Of course, that doesn't stop the guy who overthrew the Empire from founding another. Wash, rinse, repeat.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    The big problem with your whole border problem is that it ignores the fact that The Dominion's armies aren't fed by the limited rate at which races reproduce, but rather, by the incredibly fast rate at which they can clone more Jem'Hadar soldiers.

    The authors used Ketracel White to explain how the Jem'Hadar are forced to remain loyal. They didn't tell you the other side of the story, though: namely, that their dependency on it makes them vulnerable to things like being cut off from their supply of it. Or, indeed, that they can genetically mutate, so as to no longer needing it any more.
    This also largely takes care of any sort of internal corruption problems as Jem'HAdar going rogue is incredibly rare, and nearly unehard of, due to them being genetically created to be obedient slaves.

    I suggest you re-read Orwell's 1984. All great powers always believe they control 100% of every facet of life. This type of control is, of course, an illusion.

    And you still haven't refuted brian334's border issue. Basically, the Dominion are spread too thin, and could, realistically, never hold their entire border.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    and add to that the general lack of speed involved with warp travel, the larger the territory, the longer it takes fleets positioned too far away to reinforce beleaguered forces at the incursion point(s)

    the larger your empire gets, the faster your FTL needs to be to effectively secure it against aggressors (or failing that, just have the needed economy and infrastructure to pump out an infinite fleet) - and that's part of what makes the iconians so damn powerful, as their gate technology allows them instant access to any part of the galaxy, and this was demonstrated in Broken Circle when the herald forces guarding the sphere at iconia received reinforcements almost immediately after the alliance launched its assault​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    And thoughts to a few people.

    The math to the border issue seems wrong somehow. Like if you run it in reverse. My home town of less than a mile square. The police force cannot watch the entire border effectively. Is what this sounds like. And I think is wrong for the concept.
    Central control or staggered control does not mean all defense comes from one point. This would be like the army defending California from Kansas and wondering how the North Koreans landed before they could get there in time. Realistically you cover speed by having shorter distances. IE more bases to respond so an incoming attacker hits a defender pretty swiftly. And they can be reinforced from surrounding other bases. Even with a central government it is not all done from that one point. Some autonomy happens.

    To the point concerning people rising up. SFDebris is currently doing the final arc of DS9 and he covers this. While no hope exists you keep your head down. Even when things get bad you keep your head down because it could only get worse.
    You will get a rebellion if you get one of two scenarios. You have hope for better if you do resist. Or you are pushed down so far it can't get worse. Then fighting back becomes viable and oppressed people strike back. The oppressors razor edge is to never push people so low they have nothing to lose. And be swift and terrifying for bringing down those that say there is a better way. Fail at those. And the Cardassians turn on you mid battle.

    @meimeitoo There is one question that is so odd to me. Why? Why are Jem'hadar capable of turning their back on the founders. When a vorta would rather suicide? We have seen vorta less than loyal to jem'hadar. But I recall none who would turn their backs on the founders. One of the Weyouns thought that some how the war was wrong but could not abandon the founders. But one Founder was on the other side of the war. . . That was his only loophole to rebel. What we do not know is if the pursuer really would have killed Odo to stop the defection. Or if it was just a really convincing bluff.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    While the bulk of the information supporting the Invincible Dominion
    The straw men continue, The Dominion is far from invincible, both the Iconians, and the Sphere Builders, can beat them.

    Please note that there is a difference between hyperbole and strawmanning.

    I am well aware that you listed two enemies which might challenge the Dominion, but I was referencing the theory that an empire, that any empire, can be inherently stable. Centralized control is always an eventual failure. There are no examples where it is not. And the less homogenous the people of the empire, the more it costs to keep it together.

    The article you cited proves my point, actually. Britain didn't overthrow their conquerors during three internal Roman rebellions, but there were three Roman rebellions in the time the author cited! It also overlooks the fact that there was no one tribe of Britons at the time, and that the situation was more like the American conquest of the native people, both by playing the tribes off against one another and by a continual state of war against the tribes inside the conquered territory and the constant threat that the legions on the border might be removed, thus enabling their unconquered neighbors the chance to come in and take over.

    Finally, your own statement that the Dominion is in a continual state of war is the clincher. If they had the troops and the technological power to eliminate the rebels, most Jem Hadar would live to grow grey ponytails because they wouldn't be in a continual state of war. Removing a significant number of troops, as in your example of Londinium, invites rebellion which would require suppression, but where are those troops going to come from? Any potential replacements are already engaged in security work elsewhere, and removing them would result in two provinces in rebellion.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    Som.... your arguments seem to be based on a general misunderstanding of the information presented in-game.

    Here's a question you obviously never considered: Who wrote the information in that computer database you keep quoting?

    And a related question: what race built the facility?

    Yeah... two questions, one answer. So treating any of it as definitive proof of what the Iconians plan to do is dumb.
    No, they are not.

    The Iconians made that information.

    The facility was built by the Iconians, and exists as part of their gateway network, it was being used by the Solanae since they were forced to live in subspace after getting changed during the industrial accident when making the dyson sphere.
    Really now? they collected information about the Dominion while living in the Andromeda Galaxy? that seems unlikely to me. Also, the architecture of the facility is NOT Iconian. It's the same as that of the Solanae Dyson sphere and the interior of the Obelisk(a Solanae vessel) Obviously it has some similarities, but it has distinct differences as well.

    Oh and the Solanae didn't abandon the Solanae sphere until well after it was completed. (What? you didn't read the BZ lore?)
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    I'd like to take a moment to thank @somtaawkhar and the others for their vigorous defense of their position. It can be tough to feel like the lone defender against the horde, and I have to say that I am impressed by the resiliance s/he has shown during the debate. I revel in the give and take of debate, and I also learn from it. Forcing me to defend my position helps me to refine it into a better concept and, on occasion, teaches me when I'm off base.

    So, thanks to all the opposition team for keeping me on my toes, and to @somtaawkhar for leading the charge.
  • thomaselkinsthomaselkins Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    This is wrong on several counts
    A. It's stated that the Jem'Hadar are programed to be loyal the same way the Vorta are. The white just serves as another layer of loyalty.

    Not that wrong. The Founders control over the Jem'Hadar was confirmed "overstated" by Weyoun on DS9.

    "Couldn't the Founders just order them to surrender? From what I know, the Jem'Hadar have been genetically-engineered to obey them?!"
    "The Founders' ability to control the Jem'Hadar has been somewhat... overstated. Otherwise we never would've had to addict them to the white."
    "Sounds like the Dominion isn't quite as stable as you'd like us to believe."
    "The Dominion has endured for two thousand years, and will continue to endure long after the Federation has crumbled into dust... but we'll leave that to history."

    You like to bring up the fact that the Dominion is 2000 years old and they have a lot of experience in maintaining and expanding their empire, but you cannot deny that even after 2000 years, Dominion experts were terrified the rebel Jem'Hadar would be capable of recruiting more Jem'Hadar to their cause. This is a fact and you shouldn't buy into their propaganda that the Jem'Hadar's loyalty is unwavering. We have instances in the show, like the above, where this is not true. That is why they kept the gateway a secret from the Jem'Hadar in that squad and why they sought to destroy a small group of rebels to begin with.

    Even in this game we see Kar'ukan turn against the Founder. She's the Founder who commanded the military during the Dominion War and he still turned against her.

    Facility 4028

    "Surrender the Founder and your pet and you will survive, Captain. Refuse and I will destroy your ship."
    "He's bluffing. He can't harm a Founder!"
    "I can and I will, Vorta. Victory is life."

    Boldy They Rode

    "Kar'ukan, this is Loriss. The Founder orders you to stand down and prepare for transport."
    "The Founders have turned their backs upon us! We are denied their glory!"
    "The only glory for us now is death in battle. We are already dead. We may reclaim our honor at the price of our lives!"
    "Kar'ukan, you must obey! You must... He's closed the channel!"

    So we have at least two examples of Jem'Hadar walking away from the Dominion on DS9, Kar'ukan turning against them in The 2800 and the Path to 2409 also mentions that the Alpha Jem'Hadar refused to return home to the Dominion because they saw Odo as a false god. This doesn't mean they believe all Founders are false gods, but he did represent the Great Link and they refused his offer because of their beliefs. The Jem'Hadar are capable of making their own decisions and have turned against the Dominion before. All of these events happened in the modern era as well and you'd think that after 2000 years they would have ironed out the details when it comes to controlling them, and yet these fears remain. It's best not to swallow the Dominion's propaganda.

    I also find what Kar'ukan says interesting. He says he can and will harm a Founder followed by "Victory is life". Isn't that the tagline used in the Dominion 2018 tease? This doesn't mean it confirms a rebellion storyline or anything like that, but you yourself said...

    "This is either a full on invasion, or a full on retreat from the Gamma Quadrant, by the Dominion. And the tagline "Victory is life" would suggest it's the former, and they are coming for war."

    If you believe "victory is life" can potentially mean they're coming for war, then couldn't you also believe in the possibility that "victory is life" could also reference Kar'ukan's rebellion or some kind of rebellion in general? This tagline does not have to mean the Dominion itself is coming to fight us when the line was also used by a rebellious Kar'ukan, IMO.

    The Dominion breeds the Jem'Hadar to be genetically obedient, but their method is not perfect. The Jem'Hadar are still sentient beings who can and have made their own decisions regarding their place in the Dominion. This is why the Dominion also forced the White upon them as another form of control. Despite this, we've seen them become disallusioned with their gods and walk away or turn against them. This is fact.

    "I have fought against races that believe in mythical beings that guide their destinies and await them after death. They call them gods ... The Founders are like gods to the Jem'Hadar. But our gods never talk to us, and they don't wait for us after death. They only want us to fight for them... and to die for them." - Goran'Agar

    If I was going to invade the Dominion, I would use this knowledge against them.
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    This is wrong on several counts
    A. It's stated that the Jem'Hadar are programed to be loyal the same way the Vorta are. The white just serves as another layer of loyalty.

    Not that wrong. The Founders control over the Jem'Hadar was confirmed "overstated" by Weyoun on DS9.

    "Couldn't the Founders just order them to surrender? From what I know, the Jem'Hadar have been genetically-engineered to obey them?!"
    "The Founders' ability to control the Jem'Hadar has been somewhat... overstated. Otherwise we never would've had to addict them to the white."
    "Sounds like the Dominion isn't quite as stable as you'd like us to believe."
    "The Dominion has endured for two thousand years, and will continue to endure long after the Federation has crumbled into dust... but we'll leave that to history."

    You like to bring up the fact that the Dominion is 2000 years old and they have a lot of experience in maintaining and expanding their empire, but you cannot deny that even after 2000 years, Dominion experts were terrified the rebel Jem'Hadar would be capable of recruiting more Jem'Hadar to their cause. This is a fact and you shouldn't buy into their propaganda that the Jem'Hadar's loyalty is unwavering. We have instances in the show, like the above, where this is not true. That is why they kept the gateway a secret from the Jem'Hadar in that squad and why they sought to destroy a small group of rebels to begin with.

    Even in this game we see Kar'ukan turn against the Founder. She's the Founder who commanded the military during the Dominion War and he still turned against her.

    Facility 4028

    "Surrender the Founder and your pet and you will survive, Captain. Refuse and I will destroy your ship."
    "He's bluffing. He can't harm a Founder!"
    "I can and I will, Vorta. Victory is life."

    Boldy They Rode

    "Kar'ukan, this is Loriss. The Founder orders you to stand down and prepare for transport."
    "The Founders have turned their backs upon us! We are denied their glory!"
    "The only glory for us now is death in battle. We are already dead. We may reclaim our honor at the price of our lives!"
    "Kar'ukan, you must obey! You must... He's closed the channel!"

    So we have at least two examples of Jem'Hadar walking away from the Dominion on DS9, Kar'ukan turning against them in The 2800 and the Path to 2409 also mentions that the Alpha Jem'Hadar refused to return home to the Dominion because they saw Odo as a false god. This doesn't mean they believe all Founders are false gods, but he did represent the Great Link and they refused his offer because of their beliefs. The Jem'Hadar are capable of making their own decisions and have turned against the Dominion before. All of these events happened in the modern era as well and you'd think that after 2000 years they would have ironed out the details when it comes to controlling them, and yet these fears remain. It's best not to swallow the Dominion's propaganda.

    I also find what Kar'ukan says interesting. He says he can and will harm a Founder followed by "Victory is life". Isn't that the tagline used in the Dominion 2018 tease? This doesn't mean it confirms a rebellion storyline or anything like that, but you yourself said...

    "This is either a full on invasion, or a full on retreat from the Gamma Quadrant, by the Dominion. And the tagline "Victory is life" would suggest it's the former, and they are coming for war."

    If you believe "victory is life" can potentially mean they're coming for war, then couldn't you also believe in the possibility that "victory is life" could also reference Kar'ukan's rebellion or some kind of rebellion in general? This tagline does not have to mean the Dominion itself is coming to fight us when the line was also used by a rebellious Kar'ukan, IMO.

    The Dominion breeds the Jem'Hadar to be genetically obedient, but their method is not perfect. The Jem'Hadar are still sentient beings who can and have made their own decisions regarding their place in the Dominion. This is why the Dominion also forced the White upon them as another form of control. Despite this, we've seen them become disallusioned with their gods and walk away or turn against them. This is fact.

    "I have fought against races that believe in mythical beings that guide their destinies and await them after death. They call them gods ... The Founders are like gods to the Jem'Hadar. But our gods never talk to us, and they don't wait for us after death. They only want us to fight for them... and to die for them." - Goran'Agar

    If I was going to invade the Dominion, I would use this knowledge against them.

    I am not trying to say you are wrong, as I have made more than a few of these points myself. But some of your brush work is a bit over done. Just bcause the jem'hadar are sentient beings is not why they seem capable of rebellion. The Vorta are sentient beings and they do. not. rebel.

    Same episode with the gateway. The loyal jem'hadar killed their vorta and took the stash of white. Not to rebel against the founders. But to remove the vorta that disbelieved their loyalty. And went on to continue hunting the rogues till the mission was done or they died. The vorta there never wavered on his loyalty to the founders. He just doubted his soldiers.
    Sadly this is one question I doubt anyone is going to answer for me. Why the vorta are the only ones that still eat. But are totally loyal. But the soldiers can choose to resist, or fight on because it is the way.

    Oh and I doubt this will be because kar'ukan had turned. Recall he and his forces were destroyed over DS9.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • thomaselkinsthomaselkins Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    They have rebelled several times in Dominion history, and each time it was put down.

    That only means the Dominion have fought and defeated rebellions before. That doesn't mean another rebellion today is impossible. The point of causing one on purpose now would be to distract the Dominion and keep them busy with an internal conflict. The Iconians could even supply the rebels if they wanted and I'm sure Jem'Hadar soldiers backed with Iconian technology would make them a lot more formidable than they were before. Keeping Iconian technology out of the hands of Jem'Hadar rebels was the whole point of that episode after all.
    The Dominion was only concerted about a Jem'Hadar rebellion in DS9 because the wormhole was mined,

    To The Death happened before the Wormhole was mined. This was the full Dominion afraid of these rebels, not just the small band of Dominion trapped without reinforcements.
    feiqa wrote: »
    The Vorta are sentient beings and they do. not. rebel.

    The Vorta aren't soldiers bred in large batches and tossed into battle as cannon fodder either.

    Edit: I want to make a quick edit here. While we don't actually see Vorta take up arms against the Dominion like we saw some Jem'Hadar, Vorta have been shown to possess a will to live. Vorta are supposed to commit suicide to avoid capture, to the point they have termination implants embedded inside them. However, we see in the episode Rocks and Shoals that the Vorta Keevan not only failed to activate his implant, but he made a bargain with Starfleet and had their doctor save his life. He then betrayed his Jem'Hadar by telling the Starfleet forces of their attack plan and sent the Jem'Hadar on a suicide mission. Afterwards he willingly handed himself over to them.

    Then in the episode The Magnificent Ferengi, Keevan attempts to flee because he knows the Dominion will punish him severely for his treachery. He has no desire to be handed over to the Dominion to be tortured and put to death and really, who could blame him?
    feiqa wrote: »
    The loyal jem'hadar killed their vorta and took the stash of white. Not to rebel against the founders. But to remove the vorta that disbelieved their loyalty.

    I don't see the point of this though since we already know there are loyal Jem'Hadar out there. Remata'Klan from Rocks and Shoals is another loyal Jem'Hadar, but that doesn't change the fact rebellions occur. If the Iconians convinced Jem'Hadar to turn against the Dominion now, loyal Jem'Hadar would still be there to resist them. The point is it would keep the Dominion busy for some time.
    feiqa wrote: »
    Oh and I doubt this will be because kar'ukan had turned. Recall he and his forces were destroyed over DS9.

    I know. I just mean that we can't assume the phrase "Victory is life" is somehow reason enough to believe the expansion will involve the Dominion attacking us when even rebellious Jem'Hadar who turn against the Dominion use it just the same.

    Post edited by thomaselkins on
  • thomaselkinsthomaselkins Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    A, They have already dealt with such an occurrence before, several times in fact, and thus, would be prepared for dealing with it quickly.

    Except this doesn't fit the facts and I mentioned this once before when I said...

    "You like to bring up the fact that the Dominion is 2000 years old and they have a lot of experience in maintaining and expanding their empire, but you cannot deny that even after 2000 years, Dominion experts were terrified the rebel Jem'Hadar would be capable of recruiting more Jem'Hadar to their cause."

    Yes the Dominion is 2000 years old. That's certainly a fact. Yes the Dominion has experienced rebellion and put those rebellions down before. That's also a fact. What you fail to consider however is that in the actual episode, (in which case the Dominion was 2000 years old and experienced), the Dominion expresses concern over the rebels because they had the potential to bring more to their cause. The Dominion, despite the experience you insist upon, was concerned that they would lose control of these rebels. You cannot continue to deny this.

    It's also important to know that Sisko says that the Dominion could easily send ships to crush the rebellion, but their access to Iconian technology made them dangerous. So dangerous that they didn't have time to send a fleet of ships to destroy them, because if they got their hands on the gateway then the Dominion would lose total control of them. So if the Iconians want to hurt the Dominion, then it would be a good idea to consider asking some of these Jem'Hadar to join them and get access to their technology.
    B. The primary problem with rebellions is that your own men turn against you, meaning you have no one to defend yourself with, or at least far less people to defend yourself with. However, the Dominion can breed battle ready Jem'Hadar in three days time. Even if many of them rebelled, they could just grow a few more batches, have the new Jem'Hadar kill the old ones, and then be right back at the level they had before the rebellion occurred in no time.

    That sounds so easy on paper, but it's rarely that easy. What happens if the rebels seize control of breeding centers and begin breeding their own anti-Dominion soldiers? Not only do they already have the problem of Jem'Hadar potentially joining the rebellion from word of mouth, but if they start breeding their own troops then they may begin to pose an even bigger threat.

    This doesn't take into consideration the potential for the Iconians to assist them. What if the Iconians can breed Jem'Hadar, or cure them of the White? I believe there are just too many factors and it would be hard to dismiss them all so easily.

  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    This new Season can't come fast enough. Get here before this Thread balloons to sizes like those annoying Ten Forward ones. :)

    Snipping is your friend.
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    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    At the end of the Lavar Burton teaser we see a Dominion fleet exit the wormhole to pay a visit to DS9.

    It looks like DS9 will become a hub for the following season, but exactly what form will it take? I'm hoping that it is more than a one-off episode, and that it leads us into the Gamma Quadrant. I'm hoping it develops DS9 as a resource and social hub for end game content, and I hope it opens up a lot of doors for future expansions.

    But all I have is hope and five seconds of teaser. Which is enough to let the speculations begin!

    Speculation #1: The Dominion is coming, not to invade, but to ask for help! The Hur'q or someone, (possibly even a one-armed Iconian,) is stirring up trouble over there in the GQ and they require the services of a legendary creative troubleshooter. (You!)

    This may even be the next Recruiting event with playable Gamma Quadrant races, BOffs, and DOffs, and possibly even a Vorta PC. Begin your career as a Gamma Quadrant character by being sent to DS9 for training, initially helping to defeat the immediate enemy, but eventually falling prey to the insidious subversion that is Federation training. When it's all over, the GQ becomes open for exploration.

    Note: My fan-fic has my Jem Hadar BOff as First of the squad of Jem Hadar DOffs who came, with a Vorta commander, to serve my captain under orders from the Changeling we rescued from Facility 4028. The Vorta, though not in their chain of command on the ship, is the superior officer of the Jem Hadar both because it manufactures the White and because Jem Hadar always serve through a Vorta. PCs require a freedom of choice only shown once in canon by a mutant Jem Hadar. As such, while a Jem Hadar might make an excellent First Officer, it will never command. I know others will have other ideas, but playable Jem Hadar should not be introduced.

    Very interesting! i would love to see the Dominion come on, get Jeffery Combes, Salome Jens, Casey Biggs and the others in on it, have some time traveling, but not too much, get a sense of where things are at..

    kinda wondering if LTS would get a unique race like the liberated borg and talaxians. something like a Jem'Hadar soldier or even a Changling?

    Lots of ideas. it certainly has more scope and potential than what i have seen on SWTOR recently.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • brian334brian334 Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    I wouldn't mind seeing The Sisko again, to add Avery Brooks to that list.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind seeing The Sisko again, to add Avery Brooks to that list.

    i'm not sure if Avery would be interested in coming back for his role? But i could imagine that there is a story element where you talk with Sisko in the wormhole as he describes what has happened a little more with the Dominion and you take a trip into the past during the Dominion war because there is a clue there to help you in your present timeline.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • darakossdarakoss Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    brian334 wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind seeing The Sisko again, to add Avery Brooks to that list.

    i'm not sure if Avery would be interested in coming back for his role? But i could imagine that there is a story element where you talk with Sisko in the wormhole as he describes what has happened a little more with the Dominion and you take a trip into the past during the Dominion war because there is a clue there to help you in your present timeline.

    Avery is a little messed up and not right in the head anymore.
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,844 Arc User
    darakoss wrote: »
    brian334 wrote: »
    I wouldn't mind seeing The Sisko again, to add Avery Brooks to that list.

    i'm not sure if Avery would be interested in coming back for his role? But i could imagine that there is a story element where you talk with Sisko in the wormhole as he describes what has happened a little more with the Dominion and you take a trip into the past during the Dominion war because there is a clue there to help you in your present timeline.

    Avery is a little messed up and not right in the head anymore.

    Ahh.. that sucks :( such a promising actor he was.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
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