'Bridge View' missions

luqas99 · May 2017

Has anyone attempted to make a Foundry mission in the style of the Bridge View mode from Star Trek: Bridge Commander? Where, rather than an external view of the ship during combat, your PC is on the bridge giving orders to crew, with appropriate action appearing on the viewscreen? The PC would have choices of orders to give with each development, and giving the right ones damages the enemy, giving the wrong ones results in exploding consoles, etc? Is this is even possible to replicate on the Foundry?
(You can see the Bridge Commander gameplay here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JXoMRjPcR0)

duncanidaho11 · May 2017

It's possible but not to a standard equivalent to a bridge game. You cannot change any of the fundamental parameters of STO through the Foundry. It's not a modding too, it's an editor package using existing mechanics and pre-build assets. There's a lot you can do with that, in the context of normal STO gameplay, but changing STO into something else is fraught with challenges.

The best we could do is "bridge commander stage theater." The player works their way through layered dialog trees while standing on a bridge map with triggers as necessary to sell what we can. It would be possible to tie certain dialog trees to triggered explosions, and write that the player has made the "wrong" choice, but carrying that through the entire mission would be tricky (since you would have to be using non-mission pop-up dialog with branching pathways, with individual end-states for every "lasting" choice combination.)

There's ways you can simplify, break up the tedium of working through lengthy dialog trees, and add a few more things on the side to have fun with the premise. However, there's going to be a secondary question here of "will this even be fun for players to play?" If you try for a 1:1 emulation of bridge commander you'll probably finish an illustrative example of why cryptic didn't use this format in the first place. On the other hand, a limited section where the player tries to give orders from the bridge could be a great way of varying the flow of a mission, give space for more dialog, or even parody STO, Bridge Commander, and the IP in general (depending on the tone of the mission.)

luqas99 · May 2017

Thanks for the reply. Can you tell me if it possible to have an active viewscreen on a bridge map, where the view can change upon triggers, and can show NPCs like a dialogue box does?

duncanidaho11 · May 2017

luqas99 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Can you tell me if it possible to have an active viewscreen on a bridge map, where the view can change upon triggers, and can show NPCs like a dialogue box does?

Nope, not really. You can have a window and spawn things outside that window. That limits you to ships though, or a full custom bridge built on the other side of the screen. You couldn't, say, rescale an NPC to Godzilla size and prop their face in your custom view screen. You have to work with the Foundry/STO as is, no UI or parameter changes. It might help to play a few missions to get a feel for what authors use the toolset for. Then imagine that being applied to a bridge simulator, digging into the editor yourself to put ideas into practice.

luqas99 · May 2017

Sounds pretty limiting. I hope that they eventually give us a cut scene editor, since that could make all the difference for this, it may actually allow for a bridge view battle sequence like in ST: BC.

spiritborn · May 2017

It should be noted that Bridge Commander was built from the ground up to be simulation game and was made by a company with a lot of experience with simulators (Totally Games the guys behind the SW simulator games from the 90s). the bridge view in Bridge Commander is really just a variation of "cockpit view" from your more traditional simulator.

rogue6800 · May 2017

luqas99 wrote: »

Sounds pretty limiting. I hope that they eventually give us a cut scene editor, since that could make all the difference for this, it may actually allow for a bridge view battle sequence like in ST: BC.

Unless something major changes higher up, we aren't going to get any more features to the foundry.

It's such a shame, but it doesn't make PW any money to Cryptic aren't interested. True the devs do what they can for minor additions - there's just no paid time.

duncanidaho11 · May 2017

rogue6800 wrote: »

It's such a shame, but it doesn't make PW any money to Cryptic aren't interested. True the devs do what they can for minor additions - there's just no paid time.

But that's not to say that the devs don't have an interest in the Foundry. It's just that with all constraints (ie. money to invest, return out) they have to be careful about what they develop for the game. Yes, this does prioritize things people are willing to spend money on (ex. console ports, new ships), and no adding micro-transactions to the Foundry isn't the answer, but it's a decision of necessity. The game has to keep the lights on and having a healthy platform does also mean that the Foundry can continue making missions for as big an audience as possible.

Consider the following: say the devs create a QoL feature that, say, makes it easier for authors to keep track of assets in three dimensions (ex. through a special layer UI). But to create and test that required dev time. That dev time is going to something that just eases the process of making mission. It doesn't necessarily improve the quality of the missions made. That's still up to the author. This new thing is just a handy short cut.

It may ease our stress levels, but without that dev time spent on other things the game we're building for is reduced. Without that other thing the dev time could have gone into, STO will be (to some degree) less able to entertain and maintain interest. Foundry authors might be happier but even they're paying for the losses to the main game through less players and an increased risk of a shutdown.

The exceptions to this are features that broaden the reach of the Foundry and hit key bottlenecks that prevent players from finding missions. It amounts to more stuff players can get spend time with and invest in. Getting that feature is then just a question of sorting out which improvements (across all systems) to make with available time and manpower. But the Foundry is potentially in the running there. The top three system was just such a feature and it's brought a tremendous amount of life to the Foundry. For example, it's made my entire Foundry career. Players wouldn't be able to consistently find the SSF series (and thereby encourage me to keep trying) if it wasn't for the happy accident of putting my first mission at Regulus.

So we do get stuff, and there's more to hope for (ex. an updated search UI, linking series, ect.) The rest really falls to us. We can make good missions with the tools at hand, provided we pay attention to stories, art, and gameplay. It might take a lot of hard work. But coupled with the devs' work, we can create some truly awesome stuff and put that out there for people to find.

-Basically, we don't actually need that much besides new assets every now and then to continue pushing forward with our missions. There's stuff to hope for but in the meantime just have as much fun as possible.

cavewark · May 2017

i would suggest if your going to attempt this kind of story arc in the foundry you set it on a "NPC ship" that way your not limiting yourself to certain bridge sets. Although its just going to be a lot of running around activating consoles.

pendra37 · May 2017

luqas99 wrote: »

Has anyone attempted to make a Foundry mission in the style of the Bridge View mode from Star Trek: Bridge Commander? Where, rather than an external view of the ship during combat, your PC is on the bridge giving orders to crew, with appropriate action appearing on the viewscreen? The PC would have choices of orders to give with each development, and giving the right ones damages the enemy, giving the wrong ones results in exploding consoles, etc? Is this is even possible to replicate on the Foundry?

Now honestly, does this look fun to you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6y86rjHijY&t=80s

thay8472 · May 2017

pendra37#5088 wrote: »

luqas99 wrote: »

Has anyone attempted to make a Foundry mission in the style of the Bridge View mode from Star Trek: Bridge Commander? Where, rather than an external view of the ship during combat, your PC is on the bridge giving orders to crew, with appropriate action appearing on the viewscreen? The PC would have choices of orders to give with each development, and giving the right ones damages the enemy, giving the wrong ones results in exploding consoles, etc? Is this is even possible to replicate on the Foundry?

Now honestly, does this look fun to you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6y86rjHijY&t=80s

no

theraven2378 · May 2017

pendra37#5088 wrote: »

luqas99 wrote: »

Has anyone attempted to make a Foundry mission in the style of the Bridge View mode from Star Trek: Bridge Commander? Where, rather than an external view of the ship during combat, your PC is on the bridge giving orders to crew, with appropriate action appearing on the viewscreen? The PC would have choices of orders to give with each development, and giving the right ones damages the enemy, giving the wrong ones results in exploding consoles, etc? Is this is even possible to replicate on the Foundry?

Now honestly, does this look fun to you?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6y86rjHijY&t=80s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cgbZqR2AGI

johnnysnowball · May 2017

This is certainly something i had planned for one of my many works-in-progress as a combat scene. It's very much doable. With the Foundry, there's usually a way. Just gotta find it or fake it.

spiritborn · May 2017

johnnysnowball wrote: »

This is certainly something i had planned for one of my many works-in-progress as a combat scene. It's very much doable. With the Foundry, there's usually a way. Just gotta find it or fake it.

I suppose anything is doable the question is will it be any fun though, as I said before Bridge Commander was built from the ground up to be the way it was and it was pretty fun, I own it though I've not tried to get to work on modern system.

oh and Johnny I probably should thank you for giving me the idea to use the Vault as a backround skyscrapers

luqas99 · May 2017

pendra37#5088 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6y86rjHijY&t=80s

Lol, no, but that isn't quite what I was asking for, by several light years! That would be one possible use of the functions I was interested in, but a dull and pointless one. Watch the Bridge Commander vid posted in my original post for an example of what I actually inquiring about.

luqas99 · May 2017

duncanidaho11 wrote: »

rogue6800 wrote: »

It's such a shame, but it doesn't make PW any money to Cryptic aren't interested. True the devs do what they can for minor additions - there's just no paid time.

But that's not to say that the devs don't have an interest in the Foundry. It's just that with all constraints (ie. money to invest, return out) they have to be careful about what they develop for the game. Yes, this does prioritize things people are willing to spend money on (ex. console ports, new ships), and no adding micro-transactions to the Foundry isn't the answer, but it's a decision of necessity. The game has to keep the lights on and having a healthy platform does also mean that the Foundry can continue making missions for as big an audience as possible.

Consider the following: say the devs create a QoL feature that, say, makes it easier for authors to keep track of assets in three dimensions (ex. through a special layer UI). But to create and test that required dev time. That dev time is going to something that just eases the process of making mission. It doesn't necessarily improve the quality of the missions made. That's still up to the author. This new thing is just a handy short cut.

It may ease our stress levels, but without that dev time spent on other things the game we're building for is reduced. Without that other thing the dev time could have gone into, STO will be (to some degree) less able to entertain and maintain interest. Foundry authors might be happier but even they're paying for the losses to the main game through less players and an increased risk of a shutdown.

The exceptions to this are features that broaden the reach of the Foundry and hit key bottlenecks that prevent players from finding missions. It amounts to more stuff players can get spend time with and invest in. Getting that feature is then just a question of sorting out which improvements (across all systems) to make with available time and manpower. But the Foundry is potentially in the running there. The top three system was just such a feature and it's brought a tremendous amount of life to the Foundry. For example, it's made my entire Foundry career. Players wouldn't be able to consistently find the SSF series (and thereby encourage me to keep trying) if it wasn't for the happy accident of putting my first mission at Regulus.

So we do get stuff, and there's more to hope for (ex. an updated search UI, linking series, ect.) The rest really falls to us. We can make good missions with the tools at hand, provided we pay attention to stories, art, and gameplay. It might take a lot of hard work. But coupled with the devs' work, we can create some truly awesome stuff and put that out there for people to find.

-Basically, we don't actually need that much besides new assets every now and then to continue pushing forward with our missions. There's stuff to hope for but in the meantime just have as much fun as possible.

Yes, but whether you'd class what I asking about as quality of life is debatable, IMO. Same for a possible cut-scene editor for the foundry. I realize that with that, we still couldn't entirely replicate the simulator-combat, but we could perhaps construct some kind of RPG-cut-scene hybrid which has a similar feel to it, akin to quicktime events in games like the Arkham series, or maybe the Telltale interactive story mode. Routing mini-cut-scenes or cut-sequences into a thread, so that it is more dynamic and fun to play than just dialogue.
I say all this because I like this game, but the space combat doesn't feel very Star Trekky to me, it could be any space opera franchise, and often feels like the story is put on hold just to blow TRIBBLE up, while the ground mission content is maybe the most Trek-like, IMO, but also is ostensibly just a 3rd person shooter. I was hoping there was some way to creatively combine the two, and perhaps be more faithful to the feel of the original shows while we're at it.
To quote a YT poster from that STO video above: RandomSimsy 5 years ago
I really hoped the game be more about being on your ship and nut just ridiculous amounts of instance based combat...

duncanidaho11 · May 2017

luqas99 wrote: »

Yes, but whether you'd class what I asking about as quality of life is debatable, IMO. Same for a possible cut-scene editor for the foundry. I realize that with that, we still couldn't entirely replicate the simulator-combat, but we could perhaps construct some kind of RPG-cut-scene hybrid which has a similar feel to it, akin to quicktime events in games like the Arkham series, or maybe the Telltale interactive story mode. Routing mini-cut-scenes or cut-sequences into a thread, so that it is more dynamic and fun to play than just dialogue.

This would be a major undertaking and one that I don't think would ever pay off (we are a small community.) The ability to interact with cutscenes isn't even a feature of the main game. It may be technically possible to add this all to the Foundry but given our priorities (ex. a much more user friendly search interface, bug fixing, more assets copied over, getting the top three system back) and those of Cryptic the ability to construct bridge crew simulators I don't think can be recommended. Other purpose-built products can service that niche far better than a repurposed mission creation tool for an action-MMO.

I say all this because I like this game, but the space combat doesn't feel very Star Trekky to me, it could be any space opera franchise, and often feels like the story is put on hold just to blow **** up, while the ground mission content is maybe the most Trek-like, IMO, but also is ostensibly just a 3rd person shooter. I was hoping there was some way to creatively combine the two, and perhaps be more faithful to the feel of the original shows while we're at it.
To quote a YT poster from that STO video above: RandomSimsy 5 years ago
I really hoped the game be more about being on your ship and nut just ridiculous amounts of instance based combat...

That doesn't sound like a gameplay format issue. More just a writing preference and leading expectations. The Foundry (just in letting players craft characters, story, and dialog) certainly allows for missions that have an exclusive emphasis on operatic drama. We don't need gameplay overhauls for what we do already.

'Bridge View' missions

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