test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

What Did You Think: Core Assault

135

Comments

  • lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    Are you trolling or just ignoring other groups?
    patrickngo wrote: »
    @ssbn655 i do get it, I noticed the difference from the first time I started to PvP. It became a better player once I started looking up builds, strategies and asking PvPers how to build a ship and how to be good at space combat.

    Here's the thing though. "Griefing" (isn't it grieving?) in PvP is never a good thing to do, because you get ganked by players for griefing people in chat or for constantly attacking the same weaker player. I've seen it and I've done it myself (attacking and griefing griefers I mean).
    In PvE however, it's a different story griefing safe to do and easy to get away with and this happens way more often than the PvE community would care to admit.

    So far in core assault I've been told to shut up by some idiot in an iconian dreadnought that refused to contribute to the team and help with opening the door when I politely asked. He didn't even understand the concept of "jack in the box". And I've been spawncamped by people I've never seen in PvP queues or Ker'rat so I'm assuming they're PvEers or DPSers because their builds had the structural integrity of a chocolate teapot in a summers day but were hitting hard when I was slowed or held by something. That being said, I'm not an idiot, I know how to handle spawncamping idiots that are scared of having a proper fight.

    To top things off, I've been dying to the enemy core and Breen NPCs more than I've been dying to players or even killing players. And it's honestly been so much fun!!

    Complaining about PvP when the majority of people you are fighting in the queues (if and when you manage to engage or be engaged by a player because it's not as often as you think) are as clueless about how to PvP as you are and can be killed by a t5u Defiant running no immunities, using Accx3 weapons with a classic DBB, DHCx2 and a torp, using APO3, APD1, BO2, CRF2 and HY3 as main attack buffs with no EPtW or KLW... is embarrassing and silly.

    If you want to succeed at something, anything really, you need spend time to learn how to do it. It's not easy, it'll hurt the ego, at the start you'll spend far more resources that you'll eventually learn you didn't need.
    It's the same thing with PvE (people still struggle to this day with the cure space, ground queues in general and I used to to until I looked up how to do it properly) and even more so with PvP.

    At the end of the day, if you don't like it, don't do it (or do the elite core assault because PvPing in that is pointless because there's no time. You either PvP or take out the enemy's core and only attacking the core will grant you the win).
    PvE, along with the federation faction, have received all the love for 7 years and look at the state of the game, it's a DPS, spacebar, spacebarbie, Fed-fest with broken game mechanics that has lead to a mountain of complaints and an entire community leaving the game (my main is a Fed so no "you're a klink so of course you want more content for a PvP faction" nonsense).

    The Devs are finally listening to the side of the community that wants balanced game mechanics, balanced powercreep, content that is more than story and playing spacebar hero with DPS so that STO can succeed as a game and attract more players and thus more funding.

    STO is finally making a turn for the better which has led to Ker'rat and PvP queues becoming populated again (we had 2 instances in Ker'rat on Wednesday, it hasn't been like that since a few months after DR), it's brought back old players that, nice they see the improvements done to game balance and the new content that doesn't focus around DPS-FAW-spamming, will be more encouraged to spend money in STO thus bringing more resources for the Devs and more, better, content for everyone. For PvEers and PvPers.

    Change is difficult but this is the first positive step since the miserable decline after season 8.5. Things will get better, learn to adapt. Or do a different queue.

    I think we can thin it down a lot, RWS. the following is more of a description of a spectrum of player types and interactions, so it's wordier than a simple, pithy definition, but I think it reinforces some of your points.

    there are Trolls. they're not PvP or PvE players, they're Trolls. they're the guy who just wants to see the world burn, and they'll exploit every broken mechanic to **** up things for someone else, and that's regardless of PvE, or PvP play.

    the PvP player accepts the possibility of losing a fight or match. they will try to minimize that risk, but the accept it can happen without the other fellow using cheats or hax. It's the PvP players that come up with honor traditions like "the cracked planetoid in Ker'rat is for one on one duels and you don't interfere or the whole instance will turn on you." (Demonstrated on Wednesday afternoon, 4/26/17 to some people who did NOT wish to observe this tradition. the stronger PvP players fedside stood aside after a certain Fed jumped into a duel with his buddies and ganked someone who was in a called duel. in th e end, everyone but a couple of trolls broke up an hour later on good terms. this is NOT something that would, or could, happen with most PvE groups.)

    the PvP player doesn't have to have the "Best gear" either-a lot of us intentionally run without it, or with builds that are clearly NON optimal even when we've got the ability to min/max, because we want that thrill of beating an opponent with our cleverness and skill, rather than with the wallet. we even started movements devoted to that theme. (Look up "Vanilla PvP", there's even a video from season 8.5)

    On to the PvE players...

    In my observation, the PvE players come in two basic groups. Group 1 are players that might become PvP'ers if they give it half a chance, because they have a competitive, risk-taking spirit and an interest in challenge. This group will run STF's that have failure conditions, they don't lean on the most broken combinations because they don't feel it's thematic enough, or they don't want to spend their lives re-running ISA endlessly, alternating with CCA.

    Group 2 PvE players basically can't stand to lose. this is the group that will, when cornered into something like Core Assault, will camp the spawn, trash-talk and throw a hissy fit when they're taken down. Group 2's are close relatives of the Troll, but with different motives-the Troll screws with people because **** with people is how he gets his fun, the group 2 will do it because it's the most efficient way to win-and to punish those they feel harmed their chance of winning.

    There are a few posters (I won't name and shame) that fit the Group 2 type PvE player. They throw fits when their broken gear and builds get rebalanced, and they condemn all PvP as trolling-even when they themselves represent the worst of it when they are put in that situation.



  • liberatrixliberatrix Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    A great entry to draw people back into some pvp and teamwork... I used to like the old ques from years ago, where we competed against one another to defeat the Borg. Wouldn't mind something like that being brought back in, but I know the one-sided advantage the Feds enjoy prohibits it.
    In this galaxy there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in the universe, three million million galaxies like this.
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    ssbn655 wrote: »
    Let us be frank here the only way to fix PVP and the Co-op PVe is for those be done in premade + pregeared ships along the lines of the Klingon mission where you must steal a shuttle that has locked gear and to that add a locked set of boffs and skills. In other words take the gear and ship aspect out of the equation.

    No, that's not necessary. The alternative is a matching system alongside a sufficiently large playerbase that allows people to PVP against those of approximately similar capabilities.

    Anyway, as to Core Assault itself; most fun I've had in this game in YEARS. Short, focused PVP bouts that avoid the drag-outs which result from normal PVP maps. The new matching system seems to work well too - to borrow a metaphor, I seem to be having as many games where I'm the windscreen as where I'm the bug.
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    Just did a mission where one person was a total troll and profaned everyone when asked to contribute to the door lock room. Unfortunately he had a sad follower and we needed at least 4 to work the locks.

    Cryptic please add an afk thing that detects when people are not helping and just doesn't give them anything after the match.

    Or remove the lock room.

    Or scrap the teamwork and make it every ship for themselves just like regular PvP.

    I had a similar problem in a door room. Though I found out by accident that if you position your ship between the bottom two locks evenly you can push both locks at the same time. Not sure if this is a bug but it helped overcome the players who wouldn't contribute to opening the door.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    So are people angry and complaining because they're realising they're not good at space combat when faced with other players or is it that they're too lazy to look up how to counter other players?

    Here's an crazy idea, may be some players just don't want to be "lured" or pushed into PvP in STO, or any other MMO.
    I know, crazy, right? B)
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    regenerde wrote: »
    So are people angry and complaining because they're realising they're not good at space combat when faced with other players or is it that they're too lazy to look up how to counter other players?
    Here's an crazy idea, may be some players just don't want to be "lured" or pushed into PvP in STO, or any other MMO.
    I know, crazy, right? B)
    Sucks to be them. Seriously. It's fine to not be interested, but those who are will reap the rewards, and those who aren't... well too bad.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    regenerde wrote: »
    Here's an crazy idea, may be some players just don't want to be "lured" or pushed into PvP in STO, or any other MMO. I know, crazy, right? B)

    If there was a serious downside to not completing the rep, then you could accuse STO of "forcing" PVP. But that's not the case. Players are free to ignore it (as some are) or can do the PVP-free ground mission.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    People wanted something different. Core Assault is a good start. Overall, I enjoy playing it. The mix of combat and puzzles is a solid attempt at making something new and different. Having pvp enabled at the end is a nice touch too as it's fun to blow people out of the sky just to rub it in.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    regenerde wrote: »
    So are people angry and complaining because they're realising they're not good at space combat when faced with other players or is it that they're too lazy to look up how to counter other players?

    Here's an crazy idea, may be some players just don't want to be "lured" or pushed into PvP in STO, or any other MMO.
    I know, crazy, right? B)
    Yes. And their options are:
    1. Play the queues anyway and ignore the PvP (you get rewarded either way)
    2. Ignore the queues completely (nobody's required to play them, or the rep)
    3. Come to the forums to whine about the very existence of the queues, rant about being "forced" to play something that's entirely optional and call names at people who play the queues or other PvP

    Some of these options are more civilized than other.
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    People wanted something different. Core Assault is a good start. Overall, I enjoy playing it. The mix of combat and puzzles is a solid attempt at making something new and different. Having pvp enabled at the end is a nice touch too as it's fun to blow people out of the sky just to rub it in.

    More to the point, the PVP element makes it generally more unpredictable - and therefore capable of sustaining interest.

    And actually, I think the PVP in core assault is very well executed. The requirement for teams to defend their own core while attacking the opposing one, in a fairly confined space, introduces an interesting dynamic; it's a neat counter to the problems of ships running off into the distance, or endlessly protracted duals, in other environments. The lack of a kill-score also limits vaper antics; it's great to quickly slag an opponent, but if you can't repeat the process quickly it's of limited value.
  • kovabombkovabomb Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    What I’ve been able to see and play of Core Assault I have liked. The teamwork required and the activities of the mission are fun and encouraging. However, I’ve not been able to see much of the mission because it’s almost unplayable for me.

    Each time I’ve run the mission, I’ve encountered the same problem: the moment a batch of NPC enemies fill my line of sight, my frame rate goes kaput and never fully recovers. And soon after this problem strikes, almost without fail the game client crashes. It’s a graphical lag problem that has been plaguing me and others ever since the launch of season 13, and not just in Core Assault. And I have tried adjusting my graphics settings but nothing has helped. The problem persists no matter what settings I've run.

    So, in short: I like the concept and the mission, but please, PLEASE fix the underlying issues so that we can properly enjoy it.

    (And yes, I have mentioned this issue in the bug report forums.)
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Is there any way to guard against the core explosions? I notice those things pulse till everyone is dead. You can't fly out of range or stay up close. It also seems to happen every quarter of the way of health you knock off.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    regenerde wrote: »
    So are people angry and complaining because they're realising they're not good at space combat when faced with other players or is it that they're too lazy to look up how to counter other players?

    Here's an crazy idea, may be some players just don't want to be "lured" or pushed into PvP in STO, or any other MMO.
    I know, crazy, right? B)
    Yes. And their options are:
    1. Play the queues anyway and ignore the PvP (you get rewarded either way)
    2. Ignore the queues completely (nobody's required to play them, or the rep)
    3. Come to the forums to whine about the very existence of the queues, rant about being "forced" to play something that's entirely optional and call names at people who play the queues or other PvP

    Some of these options are more civilized than other.

    Well, they wanted feedback about this new feature, and that's what they are getting here.

    1. They could have kept the whole thing PvE or PvP from the beginning to the very end, plain and simple.

    2. They could have added a separated PvE and PvP version of those new runs to the game, and then let the players decide what they want to do.

    3. Last but not least, it would have been civilized to respect the opinions of fellow players without trying to degrade them...
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • zedbrightlander1zedbrightlander1 Member Posts: 14,762 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I do not do PVP. I've never done PVP.

    That said, I really hope this ends up being enjoyable for those that love PVP. I love that this game has, or at least tries, to have something for everybody. I applaud you for the effort here. But this is simple something I do not wish to participate in.

    Now, if you'd be so kind as to tell me how to get these Rep Marks other than participating in these queues. So far, I cannot get them via the Borg Red Alert daily. :disappointed:
    f5cc65bc8f3b91f963e328314df7c48d.jpg
    Sig? What sig? I don't see any sig.
  • texastrekkietexastrekkie Member Posts: 153 Arc User
    misterloz wrote: »
    "Someone else will do the donkeywork" seems to be the ethos of the players I've queued up with.

    One run was totally failed because two DPS heads simply refused to do anything other than shoot. This was fine until we drew the doorkey stage which was lost because neither bothered to assist.

    However. That being said I enjoyed the mission. The focus on doing something other than just DPS is quite refreshing. But ultimately let down by a playerbase who can barely work together.

    Sorry for the rant.


    Same here. I think the door key one needs a warning flashing, maybe an audio prompt every 60 seconds, making it clear that people need to be on the keys. One heroic member of our team did a good job at getting equidistant between two keys to get it open though. Despite that, it took way too long and our core was destroyed the second we entered the chamber all because we had two people who didn't realize what was going on and didn't have chat open.

    I played Friday night for the first time. I was unable to get through all the information, so I had no clue what to do. I told the team it was my 1st time and I had no idea, I received no response. I shot stuff, tried to figure out the keys, but was actually more successful on the slider bars thing. Hubby figured it out and I took top while he took bottom. We did have 1 person that seemed to be knowledgeable so we kept an eye on them. I'm gonna keep running them because figuring it out and then succeeding is the fun part.
  • megacharge07megacharge07 Member Posts: 476 Arc User
    It's good actually, a lot of fun.
    tumblr_mt0cmzAQpC1rm3hhlo2_500.gif
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,983 Arc User
    nimbull wrote: »
    Just did a mission where one person was a total troll and profaned everyone when asked to contribute to the door lock room. Unfortunately he had a sad follower and we needed at least 4 to work the locks.

    Cryptic please add an afk thing that detects when people are not helping and just doesn't give them anything after the match.

    Or remove the lock room.

    Or scrap the teamwork and make it every ship for themselves just like regular PvP.

    I had a similar problem in a door room. Though I found out by accident that if you position your ship between the bottom two locks evenly you can push both locks at the same time. Not sure if this is a bug but it helped overcome the players who wouldn't contribute to opening the door.

    Thank you I will do that next time.
  • tarran61tarran61 Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    The content is good, so are the battle's but I dont like it at all. Its like a team effort PvP. I dislike PvP in STO. If I wanted to play it I got other games that handle it a lot better. Wish the suits would get that. Not everyone wants to do the team play. Would be great if you give us other options on getting the requirements for the rep gear.
    From your quote's you used with the Great Nerf of 2017
    * Increase the fun – Games are about having fun, and players should not be made to feel that their fun is “wrong.”
    Your forcing me to play it for the rewards. Thats not fun!
    * Choices should be meaningful – Anywhere the game gives you a choice, there should be no choice that you always take nor one you never take.
    I got no choice if I want the gear(Space and Ground) from the rep.
    Positive thoughts.
    NeAC.gif
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    tarran61 wrote: »
    The content is good, so are the battle's but I dont like it at all. Its like a team effort PvP. I dislike PvP in STO. If I wanted to play it I got other games that handle it a lot better. Wish the suits would get that. Not everyone wants to do the team play. Would be great if you give us other options on getting the requirements for the rep gear.
    ***************************************************
    I got no choice if I want the gear(Space and Ground) from the rep.

    You do have a choice - either don't get the gear (which, with the exception of the flak cannon, looks pretty "meh" anyway) or wait until all-marks events run.

    As is so often the case, the complaint boils down to "I want this". It's not like there are not scads of equally- or more-effective alternatives available by other means.

  • taylor1701dtaylor1701d Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
    Only complaint I have is the Combo Lock room.
    Not a fan of having to do it over and over and over again.

    Gets real old.
    [img][/img]OD5urLn.jpg
  • stark2kstark2k Member Posts: 1,467 Arc User
    7 years too late, Nuff said.

    They gone and nuke nerf the life out of STO for this? All in the name of fair and balance, sounds like a page from FOX news & Bill O'Reilly.

    "Escalation is the best expansion ever, and the players love it!"
    StarTrekIronMan.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    I do not do PVP. I've never done PVP.

    That said, I really hope this ends up being enjoyable for those that love PVP. I love that this game has, or at least tries, to have something for everybody. I applaud you for the effort here. But this is simple something I do not wish to participate in.

    Now, if you'd be so kind as to tell me how to get these Rep Marks other than participating in these queues. So far, I cannot get them via the Borg Red Alert daily. :disappointed:
    Try Binary circuit, Z. It's like one of those weird Japanese game shows where you have to clear an obstacle course.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • dabelgravedabelgrave Member Posts: 979 Arc User
    I tried reading about the challenges on my first time through, but the match started when I was only halfway through so I didn't know what I was doing. The first challenge was just kill stuff, which was all I did since I didn't even think to try finding something else to do. The second challenge was using tractor beams for the door locks, and I only realized it when I saw a fleet mate doing one of the locks. So I got the final lock in place, and sped off to kill stuff. Only then my fleet mate informs me that I have to hold it in place. The final challenge was the combination lock. This was probably the hardest, since I had trouble noticing the difference between yellow and green, until I realized the different symbols were always their specific color. Then there was the issue that sometimes it's hard to find one of the symbols or they struggle to show up. Once in the final room, it was pretty straightforward. The other team sent one guy over to harass us. He was tanky, but didn't hit very hard, so I was able to split my efforts between shooting the regulator and chasing him off. Since the other team was ahead of us, two players from our team went over to harass them, and bought us the time we needed to win.

    My second time through went better, but that was probably because we got through our combination lock much faster than the other team. Two enemy players came over to harass us, but one blew up quick and the other ran away.

    Overall, I enjoyed the queue. The potential for PvP is the best part, and adds a final challenge: uncertainty.

    So my recommendations would be:
    • Either add more reading time at the start, or add small popups for each door to let us know what the challenge expects from us.
    • For the locks that require the tractor beam, have them change color to red or something when in place, and change back to their original color if they stop being held in place. That alone would have notified me that I needed to keep holding it in place.
    • For the combination lock part, make the green symbol a few shades darker so it's easier to differentiate from the yellow one.
    • There may be some concerns about spawn camping, so it might be a good idea to lock each side's corridor so the other team cannot get into it.
  • sarysa#0502 sarysa Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    Positives:
    • Most puzzles are brains over brawn.
    • The fact that teamwork is required.

    Negatives:
    • The core being a big fat FU to escort ships. I mean yeah, we have an advantage when it comes to the "runner" sections like delivering charges and the matching game, but why does it one-shot my full Iconian Mat'Ha at full health with an epic XIV shield? Seriously, tone it down a little.
    • PvP in general being broken...those players who essentially make unkillable ships in particular.
    • The "door key" puzzle doesn't scale down with fewer players, meaning two discos can mean automatic loss if it's in part 3. Honorable mention re: the "short team" problem goes to the delphic box puzzle, though you just get slowed down relative to a team of 5.

    My space game is terrible. (excluding my tac w/ escort which still admittedly needs work) I haven't really figured it out nor had the time to try. So despite my personal negative bias, I love the concept and hope to see additional missions like it in the future.
    Post edited by sarysa#0502 on
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    [*] The core being a big fat FU to escort ships. I mean yeah, we have an advantage when it comes to the "runner" sections like delivering charges and the matching game, but why does it one-shot my full Iconian Mat'Ha at full health with an epic XIV shield? Seriously, tone it down a little.
    I got one-shotted in a Rezreth once, so it's not just escorts that have this problem.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • mercurythefirstmercurythefirst Member Posts: 104 Arc User
    I enjoyed the one run I had so far. I must admit I wasn't any help in the chambers, mostly because there didn't seem to be any visual cues, text, audio or anything to indicate what to do.

    But once I got into the core and got to attack actual PLAYERS for once I decided this was the best queue ever. Got to smash a Jupiter and a Yamato. As a science player, it's good that it seems to be a queue that consistently needs my heals, not just my mindless spam of gravity well and rift.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    bloodpact.net

    "The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it."

    -Michelangelo
  • sarysa#0502 sarysa Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited May 2017
    dabelgrave wrote: »
    So my recommendations would be:
    • [...]
    • There may be some concerns about spawn camping, so it might be a good idea to lock each side's corridor so the other team cannot get into it.

    Given where exactly people spawn, I would go the extra mile with this one and make people in locked off zones immune to enemy weapons and abilities. People starting off with virtually no power don't stand a chance, and can be slowed/tractored in place so they can't ever gain the ability to fight back.
  • risingwolfshadowrisingwolfshadow Member Posts: 619 Arc User
    They've added safe spawn zone.
Sign In or Register to comment.