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What did you think: Mirrors and Smoke

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  • captain84101captain84101 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    That was the most blatant left-wing propaganda piece I've ever seen. Considering how easy it was to fight the enemies, they didn't even want it to be a challenge. Just wanted to shove a narrative down your throat. Disappointed in Cryptic/STO.
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  • saber1973asaber1973a Member Posts: 1,225 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Ok... so for fun and flames:
    Ships are more important that single people, so we can desintegrate on ground maps, but disable traditionals ships in space?
    ... to be thruthfull, i'm sure that ships crews were much bigger that the pitifull squads, they throw at me on the moon, but still - it should be easier setting personal weapons on stun, that adjust ships weapons to disable only...

    Actually i'm always angry when i got missions with disabling enemy ships, because it makes harder to advance ships mastery, and it's sometimes messes with active skills/powers - like when i tried to clear plasma fires on my ship, and i healed disabled enemy, because now it reads as ally... and it was still targeted.

    Mission was fun, and can be done fast, cause most (if not all) cutscenes can be skipped - yay (after 2-5 runs, i really don't need to watch them anymore).

    The plot - well it was weird - the idea is good, but the implementation give me weird feeling, like it was shoveling ideas into my head - protect the enviroment (ok), be more tolerant (also ok), but it was somewhat too "condensed"?

    Also that chief security official (can't remember that name now) - 5-15 minutes of problems and he goes off to openly rebelling - really? it's that easy ? How did he get to be that high in goverment in that case with all the needed scheming and politics needed normally for this?

    Still that episode is fun, short, and rewards looks good B)
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  • jiralinriajiralinria Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    I really liked the episode! The story with its message of promoting tolerance and environmental protection is excellent, we definitely need more of this :)
    So thank you so much for actually creating a piece that is worth being called Star Trek. <3
    (Besides, I really loved that we didn't commit mass-murder once more but that ships and soldiers were disabled instead of exploding or disintegrated.)
  • themadrigogsthemadrigogs Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    saber1973a wrote: »
    Ok... so for fun and flames:
    Ships are more important that single people, so we can desintegrate on ground maps, but disable traditionals ships in space?
    ... to be thruthfull, i'm sure that ships crews were much bigger that the pitifull squads, they throw at me on the moon, but still - it should be easier setting personal weapons on stun, that adjust ships weapons to disable only...

    Actually i'm always angry when i got missions with disabling enemy ships, because it makes harder to advance ships mastery, and it's sometimes messes with active skills/powers - like when i tried to clear plasma fires on my ship, and i healed disabled enemy, because now it reads as ally... and it was still targeted.

    Mission was fun, and can be done fast, cause most (if not all) cutscenes can be skipped - yay (after 2-5 runs, i really don't need to watch them anymore).

    The plot - well it was weird - the idea is good, but the implementation give me weird feeling, like it was shoveling ideas into my head - protect the enviroment (ok), be more tolerant (also ok), but it was somewhat too "condensed"?

    Also that chief security official (can't remember that name now) - 5-15 minutes of problems and he goes off to openly rebelling - really? it's that easy ? How did he get to be that high in goverment in that case with all the needed scheming and politics needed normally for this?

    Still that episode is fun, short, and rewards looks good B)

    Yeah, I think the episode tried to tell too much story. Talk of "bias" in a wholly constructed fictional tale is obvious nonsense, but I think it's fair to say that the Traditionalists weren't given enough plausible motivation. On the other hand, I loved the newspapers (or space-newspapers, whatever) giving a deeper view into the world. But first contact, ambush, another ambush, planetary genocide, sudden-yet-inevitable-betrayal, and full ecological repair are a lot for one story to hold. The city map was excellent, though.

    Plus, it made me feel like a genius for holding onto that Elachi rebreather for so long.
  • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    The ground map was nice.

    I'd rather not have politics shoved in my face, though. Admittedly, that happened in a lot of Star Trek, but this was unapologetically flagrant. Subtlety: fail.

    But the ground map was nice.
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  • thestunningmask#0685 thestunningmask Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    I liked it a great deal! I will enjoy replaying this one and am looking forward to the future storyline.
    LLAP
  • lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    About to play the map now but comments in chat suggest it's terribly written and highly political. We'll see.

    ...

    Okay just did my first run through and honestly I don't think it's as bad as folk are reporting, and despite claims that it's Trump v Hillary or Le Pen v Macron, I just don't see that.
    SPOILER WARNING
    The first space stage is fairly generic and a bit artificial - shoot first say hello afterwards type xenophobia. Sure it's possible for a race to be so xenophobic, there's even been book series which have done it well, but Earth cultures usually at least talked (or tried to) before the shooting starts.

    The first ground stage was interesting, at least on the first run through - various points giving background\ramming home the issues of the society. I'm not usually a fan of STO story content so I may be less enthusiastic in subsequent run throughs. According to Kuumaarke the Kentauri devastated their original homeworld - they're also distrustful and quick to attack. Upon beaming in you're confronted with a befouled Oriental type cityscape. As Kuumaare says it seems like they're trying to describe their new home. Whilst exploring the city\heading for the capital you're jumped by extremist thugs. Antifa anyone? A news stand reports that offworld food supplies are just sufficient to maintain the current population, and that the government will be expanding the farm labour program. The structural integrity of various buildings has been questioned but the government denies there are any issues. Smog induced illness is rising but citizens are encouraged to make sure they equip their children with breathers before taking care of themselves - the next generation is important, nobody cares if the old die out. After a sports team won their match a player celebrated by purchasing breathing units for fans in the stadium, and was then given an award by the government.

    The second space stage is better than the first, but I found the 'boss fight' to be a little taxing. The betrayal was a little tiresome too.

    The second ground stage seems a little devoid of content somehow, and the waves of enemies tiresome. I get that the planet is supposed to be carbon dead so perhaps that's just me. The irregular waves of enemies struck me as a little less logical.

    The final space stage was even harder than the original 'boss fight'. A large capital ship, with a mass of smaller ships, and one or more of this fleet having a shield drain ability meant it was really hard to fight them without taking extreme damage. The fact that this is the third time you disable enemy ships also struck me as illogical.




  • lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Continued from above:

    As said before this mission has been construed as political, and it may be, but I actually don't see it as anti-Trump or anti-Le Pen or anything like that. The society struck me as something more akin to North Korea. Remember both the Kentauri and the Lukari come from the same planet ~ country. The Lukari survived the divide and eventually struck up a relationship with a greater power - either the (American) Federation or the (Russian) KDF. By contrast the Kentauri have remained isolated until the Kuumaarke and the player's visit. Their world is polluted with a major divide between the elite and the poor. The elite live in luxury above the smog, the poor struggle to afford breathing masks and sufficient food to keep body and soul together. Anyone who knows anything about North Korean history will be aware that their citizens had to try to survive on grass at times because of the actions of their elite and their environment has been described as being in a state of collapse. Marxist states are famed for their control of labour and the Kentauri plan to expand their farm labour program sounds a tad like the Soviet Union's approach to collective farming. The fact the Kentauri are only just surviving because of offworld supplies also parallels North Korea and other Marxist state's reliance on foreign aid and\or supplies. Similarly the glorification of a sporting hero struck me as akin to the Hero of Socialist Labour - a PR job used to distract the peons slaving away in the smog. The fact that the Kentauri have a PM struck me as odd - it suggests a democracy, but North Korea has a premier which is loosely akin, and strictly speaking the government is elected. Comments by Kuumaarke about reunification also reinforce the Kentauri-Lukari : North Korea-South Korea divide.

    Anyone else concur? If not why not?
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  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,750 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Heh, this is house of Penghs TRIBBLE, err female same gender relation Klingons all over again (woah, the L word is censored now..unless you add a punctuation mark?)

    Wonder if we'll get a mod fired this time for pulling the 'this is a message I don't want my kids to see' card in a forum post :smirk:

    Thing is, this is all just projection of your own personal views and predjudices - without them, you'd see no issue; simply being a corrupt government trying to keep control via control of the media, ect (standard dictatorship mode, basically)

    Now, I'm not silly enough to believe the creators were not inspired by reality (even fantasy is based on a kernal of reality after all) but considering the Trad minister was not orange, with tiny hands or a rediculous hairdo (visual cues as to whom they could be referring to going by the above accusations), to say there were pointed parrallels is absurd

    Just chill out, its just a game
  • reiklingraiderreiklingraider Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    I liked the episode as far as I could go in it. The city was nice in a steampunkish kind of way. I could not get any farther than the " Clean Up Nearby Enemies" because I could not find any to clean up. Apparently they did not spawn for me. I tried warping out and coming back twice but that was still a no go. I did not see any bug reports on the issue so I guess it is a rare bug or I missed them somewhere on the map. I will try again tomorrow. Maybe it will work for me then.
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  • isthisscienceisthisscience Member Posts: 863 Arc User
    Generally liked it, though it seemed an entire moon being murdered did not elicit much reaction as many have noted.

    LOVED Kuumaarke's character development. She's definitely becoming stronger of will.

    The thinly veiled reference to the elephant in the Whi...room (in the real world) is kind of a return to form for Star Trek, and yet also kind of weird. I mean the series was always about anvil dropping and bringing up the complexity of issues, but it's kind of weird to see Star Trek go directly after a single person. Once people become more hip to this, I wonder how ESD chat is going to be the next few days.

    I think you've hit some good points here. I too felt that no one seemed that bothered by the loss of life which was made weirder by the rapid restoration. Although I'd like what she's doing to actual be referenced with the word "Genesis Device" at some point. Although, wouldn't it be easier just to give them a replicator? Maybe the Prime Directive applies, but wouldn't it also apply to using a Genesis Device on their moon?

    It's great seeing more of Kuumaarke, but don't you get the distinct feeling in STO that your character is a bit player, not the hero?

    And why is everyone so surprised about Star Trek being political? Lord knows what the reaaction to early TOS and TNG episodes would have been if twitter had existed back then. The fact that people think making a statement against xenophobia, inequality and environmental destruction is 'too political' in the current climate is exactly why we need Star Trek back on the screen making these statements again. Star Trek has always been a moral play, not a DPS shoot-em-up.
  • spacehermitspacehermit Member Posts: 358 Arc User

    And why is everyone so surprised about Star Trek being political? Lord knows what the reaaction to early TOS and TNG episodes would have been if twitter had existed back then. The fact that people think making a statement against xenophobia, inequality and environmental destruction is 'too political' in the current climate is exactly why we need Star Trek back on the screen making these statements again. Star Trek has always been a moral play, not a DPS shoot-em-up.

    True.

    The bad guy would look better orange rather than purple, though! ;)
  • ightenighten Member Posts: 181 Arc User
    Who was selling the gas masks in the end.. I cant even remember
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    I'll copypaste my brilliant analysis from the old unofficial thread:

    The story is good but predictable. It was immediately obvious the ships would attack (every time), that the landing party would be ambushed, that the defense minister would turn out to be evil, that the tzenkethi would show up... The tzenkethi succeeding at bombing the moon was actually unexpected, but the reaction to it was lame and implausible, as was Kuumaarke putting everything right back with space magic.

    The anti-eco-terrorists reminded me of Captain Planet villains. Not necessarily a bad thing, but unless they were going for 80's cartoon nostalgia they should've at the very least left out the part where the terrorists try to sabotage captain K's magic wand to cause another protomatter bomb explosion on their own moon.

    I would've liked an option to help the sick people in the streets.

    The gameplay was same old same old. I liked exploring the city for the accolades. How nice of us not to blow up the kentari ships, but I'd have liked to make that choice myself. Could've done without yet another "wait for Kuumaarke to tinker with her gadgets" scene, since actually defending her is as usual entirely optional. But at least it gave an accolade so not a total waste of time...on the first playthrough anyway. I do expect to AFK it next week, though. Overall there didn't seem to be much for the player to do. Once again Kuumaarke is the magician (literally this time) and the player is the lovely assistant.

    And yeah, that city map is pure awesome.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,008 Arc User
    I liked the episode in principle. Social commentary is a trademark of Star Trek and I got a chuckle out of this one. Also, learning more about the Lukari and their origins is a plus.

    However, there are a few things I just don't understand which are entirely cosmetic for the most part: The massive reuse of out-of-place assets...

    Why is Kuumaarke and her ship still using (starfleet) phasers instead of their people's technology?
    Why are the Kentari using starfleet (!) phaser rifles?
    Why is Donald wearing clearly Romulan and clearly Klingon uniform pieces?
    Why is there a Talarian starship in one of the cutscenes which wasn't there before - a mix up in the "generic" starships?

    These things let the whole episode seem as if it was some mod for Star Trek Online, trying to reuse existing asset to create something new - but not being very good at it. It doesnt seem very professional and really clashes with the well designed city map.​​
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  • dderidexwarbirddderidexwarbird Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    Can we stop with the Lukari stuff now, they weren't a very interesting race to begin with. I felt this was like most Cryptic made "Featured Missions", all prettiness and filler with new environments but no real improvement to gameplay or choices to the story. I felt I was just riding the plot railroad again.
    Original Author of the "What's the Beef with the Galaxy, Cryptic?" Forum Post

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  • sarysa#0502 sarysa Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Voyager was post-gender. It was just normal...no big deal made about it.
    There were the Malons and the danger of pollution and dumping waste somewhere instead of treating it.
    The issues of healthcare in that episode where the Doctor is kidnapped.
    The "there is no afterlife" episode first released close to Xmas.
    The one with the Devore, persecuting people just because they're telepaths.

    All of that is series typical. The latter was one-sided because well...it's about the early 1940s German ruling party. (seriously, filter?) There is no justifiable other side.
    The fall of URSS, the end of the Cold War, the rampant mistrust and racism, Praxis being Chernobyl, Chancellor Gorkonbachev getting targeted, the fear that this will be the end of Glorious Russia, the attempted coup to prevent peace.

    I wouldn't really call that a slam against Gorbachev, though. Hell, even before 1990 the west placed a lot of optimism on him.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,404 Arc User
    I wouldn't really call that a slam against Gorbachev, though. Hell, even before 1990 the west placed a lot of optimism on him.
    I never said it was against Gorbachev. The movie clearly sides with his ideas and the character based on him, while slamming warmongers on BOTH sides.

    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • drakethewhitedrakethewhite Member Posts: 1,240 Arc User
    This mission was way too heavy handed in it messaging, so much so that it was counter productive to its own message.

    Nor did this message make any sense in this setting. Why are we concerned with a planet's eco system when we are now able to destroy and completely recreate it in minutes? We're now at the point where we can take a world like Risa and switch from beach front resort to the winter wonderland resort nearly as easily as Q.

    This makes it clear that the message was more important to the mission creator than simple logic and consistency in the setting. This in turn makes the already ham handed messaging feel like a lump of dead meat dropped on your head.

    Very poor.

    The rest, nothing special although the map is nicely done. But I won't ever visit it again. I'd rather have a mission set on a ship such that we can expand our selection of interiors and actually gain something from what I see as wasted work.
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  • sarysa#0502 sarysa Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    I wouldn't really call that a slam against Gorbachev, though. Hell, even before 1990 the west placed a lot of optimism on him.
    I never said it was against Gorbachev. The movie clearly sides with his ideas and the character based on him, while slamming warmongers on BOTH sides.

    While that's still fair, I'll revise my statement:

    I thought Star Trek was above petty politics. :wink:

    As for those saying this isn't about Trump, just replay it. Click on everything with dialogue. Note the number of slightly modified catch phrases and gaffes inserted into New Kentar and especially Pentaaro. The most blatant was "make New Kentar safe once more", but regardless...it's not Kim Jong Un.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,404 Arc User
    Nor did this message make any sense in this setting. Why are we concerned with a planet's eco system when we are now able to destroy and completely recreate it in minutes? We're now at the point where we can take a world like Risa and switch from beach front resort to the winter wonderland resort nearly as easily as Q.
    Because you can't expect to change an entire civilization overnight.

    Let's imagine for example a benevolent alien species contacts us and tell us they can solve all our problems with a single special bomb. All forests, energy sources, oceans, etc. restored and they give you free unlimited and completely clean energy source to replace your polluting ones in an instant. Sounds cool, right? And it is... but not when it's instant.

    Free, unlimited energy source can mean among many things:
    -the entire fossil fuels industry collapses, bringing the whole energy industry with it
    -your current car, tools, power supplies are now useless without these industries
    -need to adapt EVERYTHING for this new energy
    -Wall Street suffers a total breakdown, endangering countless companies, their providers, their employees and the cities that welcome them
    -riots happen for various motives: risk to endanger the old ways and the whole raisons d'être, dependency to the aliens, conspiracy theories, any tech now useless because of the broken economy
    -vegetation taking back what civilization took from it, meaning many cities overwhelmed by it
    -some leaders refusing to lose their power
    -the food chain possibly all destabilized
    -rise of extremist ideologies for various reasons (protecting their culture, blasphemy of the aliens, attempts to destroy older foes in the chaos, warmongering elements, etc...)
    -etc.

    That's why things must go progressively, through several generations, slowly but surely while resisting the attempts of some elements to derail them, all to accomplish a successful and near-harmless transition.

    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • piatminipiatmini Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    Continued from above:

    As said before this mission has been construed as political, and it may be, but I actually don't see it as anti-Trump or anti-Le Pen or anything like that. The society struck me as something more akin to North Korea. Remember both the Kentauri and the Lukari come from the same planet ~ country. The Lukari survived the divide and eventually struck up a relationship with a greater power - either the (American) Federation or the (Russian) KDF. By contrast the Kentauri have remained isolated until the Kuumaarke and the player's visit. Their world is polluted with a major divide between the elite and the poor. The elite live in luxury above the smog, the poor struggle to afford breathing masks and sufficient food to keep body and soul together. Anyone who knows anything about North Korean history will be aware that their citizens had to try to survive on grass at times because of the actions of their elite and their environment has been described as being in a state of collapse. Marxist states are famed for their control of labour and the Kentauri plan to expand their farm labour program sounds a tad like the Soviet Union's approach to collective farming. The fact the Kentauri are only just surviving because of offworld supplies also parallels North Korea and other Marxist state's reliance on foreign aid and\or supplies. Similarly the glorification of a sporting hero struck me as akin to the Hero of Socialist Labour - a PR job used to distract the peons slaving away in the smog. The fact that the Kentauri have a PM struck me as odd - it suggests a democracy, but North Korea has a premier which is loosely akin, and strictly speaking the government is elected. Comments by Kuumaarke about reunification also reinforce the Kentauri-Lukari : North Korea-South Korea divide.

    Anyone else concur? If not why not?

    An interesting theory and very well supported. +10 I still think the military minister (big head/scrunched face, ok no hair, but that's a racial thing here) bears a bit too much of a similarity to what most "anti-Trump" people view him. Add to that the traditionalists are guilty of the same things the liberals claim Trump supporters are guilty of, all lumped into one strawman package. But I admit, you raise a lot of convincing similarities with the Korean situation as well. Definitely something to think about!

    Regardless of who they are based on, I do still think the Traditionalists seem a bit unbelievable though, eager to attack you for... trying to restore their moon? Especially since their own propaganda machine claims that they need it for oil... I mean some special mineral that they need for energy. And my previous recommendation of adding some "pick a side" situations without the "this side is definitely evil" thrown in would add a lot of depth to the story.
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