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So what happened to stealth? i must've missed some patchnotes somewhere.
imadude3
Member Posts: 825 Arc User
i was excited to get the Romulan Operative set from the featured episode, as i enjoy running around under cloak, but i noticed now while trying it that my cloak is now only temporary, instead of toggle, and with a pretty hefty cooldown too. did i miss some changes somewhere?
Maintaining peace through overwhelming firepower.
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Yup.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10408973-pc-patch-notes-for-2/23/17
The changes allow stealth module to plausibly serve in gameplay. There's better options for min-maxers (ex. ambush) but SM is now something you can build around (not just RP with.)
It still has a way to go IMO, but I doubt Cryptic will ever turn it back into a permanent cloaking buff (since that aspect is what made it rather clunky and usable for practical shooting.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
dang, i really enjoyed the original.
Very much correct, the changes in question are to the Stealth Module kit module. These occurred last February.
Ignoring the fact that you still become invisible for about 20 seconds when fully upgraded. Unless you get lost along the way, that's plenty of time to set yourself up for stealthy flanking.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
true, it is, but it is nowhere as much fun as cloaking around the entire enemy force aside from the few scripted encounters one cannot avoid
You can understand though that "bypassing missions" probably isn't what game designers have in mind for a single kit module. Still, you can get a long way in the time SM still allows. I guess you just have to hustle.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
don't forget that the set from the new mission also increases your sprinting speed by 50% when cloaked.
that aside, i doubt that the change is for the sake of missions, it is probably related to the major rebalances they seem to be doing soon for the upcoming PvP content. i remember playing ground PvP with my buddies, to this day they refuse to fight me in ground PvP because my Romulan has the Covert trait, combined with lunging strike, sweeping strikes, and Stealth module, you would become litterally unbeatable in 1v1.
To me, stealth was always about choosing the moment, having the time to decide when to drop my personal cloak and strike.
To put a timer on that feels like it's forcing you to make rash choices, because you only have a short time to choose your moment and if you don't take action before the cloak disengages, you're forced into combat when you aren't ready.
So if they don't make restore it to the way it was, an on/off toggle with unlimited duration, then I will never again use a Stealth Module.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
So much for a scientist's role in stealth-detection.
This is the change I want most for BOFFs, the ability to give them Kitframes with specific modules.
There are some abilities that cannot be trained, that are only accessible with modules.
Yes, I know this would completely negate the need for training ground skills into BOFFs, but I'm okay with that.
I remember when that change came in and I'm still resentful of it!
To the point where I only use a ship that has Battle Cloak so if it gets disabled by an BOFF, I can cloak again shortly, even if I'm in the middle of battle.
And the above decision was the reason why I gave up using Cloak on my KDF Captain, it wasn't a Battle Cloak, so I couldn't reactivate it everytime there was BOFF dialogue.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Or use stealth for S3 (hitting a strategic target in a given mob), S1 (by using squad commands), and S2 (you can cross the breadth of ESD with the new SM, a single encounter ain't a problem) if you're not in the mood to take an enemy head-on. You can bull your way through if you want but if you are desperate for something else then here, create a stealth build. It's an option (more so now, there's possible synergy) because you'll find that you can do a lot with a twenty second timer if you set your mind to it. That's why this is pretty much the norm for ground cloaking in action/shooters. You don't need a permanent stealth buff in order to make use of a stealth buff.
So, like WWI except without any specific similarity that would make generalized combat between small infantry groups comparable to the style of mass-warfare mentioned.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
This is erroneous (and very disrespectful to the human tragedy of WWI and the factors that exacerbated it.) While mass formation charging was used in WWI it wasn't exclusively used in this era. It simply came at a head with advances in weapons technology which command structures weren't equipped to handle (at the time, it was difficult to appreciate just how fundamentally industrial technology had changed warfare.) Charging is still an element of modern military strategy (see. projections on the use of modern Chinese airpower in a direct regional conflict), only at smaller scales and specific applications which are more appropriate to the mechanical basis of warfare.
Still, you missed the point that the mass-tactics used trench warfare are not comparable with small infantry action. Basically, in no way is any of this relevant to STO (even the Kobali battlezone) except inasmuch as STO combat invokes a few general strategic principles that you can apply on through pre-war conflict between human tribal groups.
It would have been just as appropriate (though still not particularly relevant) to compare STO to the March of the 10,000, except now that you've gone further in your view of WWI I don't think there's any way you can salvage your point about how this somehow relates to Cryptic and the Stealth Module changes.
This was also not true of WWI tactics. Trenches were used to flank other trenches, emplacements to flank other emplacements, and reconnaissance was still a vital part of military strategy. It was is the principle factor driving early investment in military aviation.
BTW, the current SM module still allows you to flank, scout, and bypass, albeit with a time constraint (which you can easily think of as suspenseful.) If you want get back on track to productive discussion, you might try the module out for yourself (since it seems like you're operating on reflex alone, rather than direct experience) and take note of exactly which encounters SM is not capable of handling and by about how much the timer came up short. It may turn out that an increase in the effect duration is all we need.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
I don't find this to be the case at all though. My TAC is going to lay down a max of gun fire but that basically puts him in role of a modern tank (ie. the big thing with a gun on it). It still pays though to think about exactly what I'm firing at (since it can make combat go better or worse). I don't rush face-first. On my ENG builds I've got two approaches: mobile explosive minions (where I'm thinking about where I put myself in combat) or stationary minions+mines (where positing focuses on being just outside of the combat area.) Either way, tactics still matter a lot. Offensive sci builds is where it gets more indiscriminate, just because you're running through a lot of AOE damage that washes choices over, but it still pays to think about how you're going about it (since single target hits and debuffs force target priorities which in turn forces target approaches which in turn forces some strategizing.)
Naturally, with enough DPS you don't have to think as much to complete combat but thought can still pay off when it comes to enjoying it. Basically, it's a choice. If you want to paladin all the time, then you can do that but if you want to go for a back stabbing and flanking then lunge, Stealth Module/Ambush, Trajectory bending, and a reserve melee weapon lay a strong foundation. (that's how I've built my TAC Rom, filling out the remaining space with motivation and gravitic spike).
What you can't do now is avoid combat without timing/consideration thanks to a single kit module (you can still go a long ways in 20 seconds) but I personally think that's akin to losing a non-combat no-clip mode (A to B, just requires a mouse click and patience). I'd much rather have a power like active camo (a la Halo) which integrates with other things but also comes with limitations (ie. a timer) so I have to think about how I'm applying it.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
One of my favorite things to do on Kobali, granted I only do this when really bored, is to use Intel boffs with that power to create photonic dopplegangers. Why? because the dopplegangers will actively seek out mobs to agro just because that's what they do.
"Hunh, I wonder why the hologram ran over that hill?"
*8 Vaadwaur come charging over the hill*
"Oh that's why..." It definitely keeps me from getting bored....
My character Tsin'xing
That the mission designers have consistently failed to account for cloaking (ground or space) in the script flow doesn't make it any better. If anything, it just makes it worse.
leave them in the safe zone. Set waypoints in the area were you transport in/ respawn so they stay behind and dont' get shot at. And if i did get caught and die, remove the waypoints and see how far they could make it to me before they died. It was fun.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Incorporating stealth into a video game is no small thing. See. the Stealth action game genre. A lot of things have to happen in order to make a permanent cloaking ability in some way integrated with gameplay. Otherwise, it's just an AI on/off button (like we have in the Foundry). But building around it can pose problems if you want non-stealth gameplay to happen too. If you've made a challenge where cloaking would be more useful than normal, by extension you've made something that's more difficult to approach through normal gameplay. So that can potentially mess with everyone else, which in this case is the vast majority of the player base because stealth module did not have population parity by itself with the rest of STO.
What's the alternative? Limited time stealthing. The constraint dials back just how far the designs need to go to make it an integrated part because it can't stand alone as it's own permanent mode. You can use it but within 20 seconds you'll be back in with the rest of everyone else. See for example: Active Camo in Halo. It provides a limited buff which you can use to great effect but it doesn't allow for the Master Chief to set out on a completely unrelated gameplay track. He's coming back after his sneaky Grunt-smashing fun.
What I am describing here is basic game design: integrate elements so they form a [roughly] cohesive experience. Making stealth module a permanent, stand-alone buff again contrasts with that cohesion. It's promoting a paper-thin tangent whose existence has (thus far in this thread) been justified by simple precedent. We had it, people used it, so people want it back for that same purpose. Nevermind context or impact, let's just go with the status quo.
My preference is for Stealth Module as it is now but with further changes on what it gives you after cloaking (personally I'd go with significant stuns/debuffs. Ambush has the damage boost covered.) That gives us sneaky fun in a form well suited to the rest of the game. It can be teamed synergistically with other abilities and doesn't require Cryptic to start thinking about fundamentally Thiefing up STO (for the sake of a single module).
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
All they needed to do to keep stealth based gameplay good was leave the module as it was, on/off toggle with unlimited duration.
That's all I needed really, I couldn't care less if they designed missions around it or not, as long as I got to play at being sneaky.
In any case, my decision has been made, if it doesn't go back to the way it was, then I'm never using it again.
I am not wasting a kitframe slot on a kit module I'm not 100% happy with.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I was suspecting this might have been the case, but was hoping it was not so.
My first mmo, I chose to play a class called Spy, they had an armor that reduced radar detection to zero, but they weren't capable of fighting zerg rushes, the stealth armor wasn't highly durable.
I really got into this aspect of the game, I practiced my sneaking around until I honed it to a fine art.
Then a patch was added that put a lot of aggro triggers on stealth, it was the equivalent of the game shouting "hey look! it's a stealth armor player!" to all enemies in range.
The reason being is that PvP players kept complaining about stealth armor players sneaking up on them and that the "unfair advantage had to be nerfedbalanced".
And it didn't end there, the next complaint was that Engineer Turrets do too much damage, so their damage was reduced to "tickle me" and their damage resistance to zero.
A turret that gets one shotted and can't do damage? Yes, that's a perfectly reasonable change to make.
I don't play PvP, so I naturally get annoyed when it causes PvE changes I disapprove of.
They aren't separate, a PvP change can stuff up PvE fun because the game only uses one set of mechanics!
Everytime Cryptic repeats a mistake made in my prior mmo, I keep thinking of this quote:
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad