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Holy Nerf to Plasmonic Leech Batman!!

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  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    are you just an edge lord attempting and failing at being clever?

    I could ask you the very same thing. :)

    I'm presenting arguments based on reasoning
    Hahahahaha!

    ..oh wait, it's already April? Carry on. :D

    I accept your admission of defeat. I understand the Science Channel is not the Debate Channel. Carry on.

    As you seem to know a great deal about debates, you should be familiar with what the situation is if one side has to claim they are winning the debate. The fact that you're approaching this convo in forums as an actual, serious debate makes it even more hilarious.
    Thanks for providing good start to my day.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    are you just an edge lord attempting and failing at being clever?

    I could ask you the very same thing. :)

    I'm presenting arguments based on reasoning
    Hahahahaha!

    ..oh wait, it's already April? Carry on. :D

    I understand the Science Channel is not the Debate Channel. Carry on.

    Oh my, I'm not reading this, right? Could anybody pls confirm that I'm not reading this?! TSC is pretty much the best "debating" channel we currently have in STO when it comes to game powers. :|
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    are you just an edge lord attempting and failing at being clever?

    I could ask you the very same thing. :)

    I'm presenting arguments based on reasoning
    Hahahahaha!

    ..oh wait, it's already April? Carry on. :D

    I accept your admission of defeat. I understand the Science Channel is not the Debate Channel. Carry on.

    As you seem to know a great deal about debates, you should be familiar with what the situation is if one side has to claim they are winning the debate. The fact that you're approaching this convo in forums as an actual, serious debate makes it even more hilarious.
    Thanks for providing good start to my day.

    You gave up by offering rhetoric without an argument, quite specifically when I asked you to try again. What other conclusion could I come to?
    "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    are you just an edge lord attempting and failing at being clever?

    I could ask you the very same thing. :)

    I'm presenting arguments based on reasoning
    Hahahahaha!

    ..oh wait, it's already April? Carry on. :D

    I understand the Science Channel is not the Debate Channel. Carry on.

    Oh my, I'm not reading this, right? Could anybody pls confirm that I'm not reading this?! TSC is pretty much the best "debating" channel we currently have in STO when it comes to game powers. :|

    Sounds like an Appeal to Authority Fallacy to me. The both of you are winning at losing.
    "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    are you just an edge lord attempting and failing at being clever?

    I could ask you the very same thing. :)

    I'm presenting arguments based on reasoning
    Hahahahaha!

    ..oh wait, it's already April? Carry on. :D

    I understand the Science Channel is not the Debate Channel. Carry on.

    Oh my, I'm not reading this, right? Could anybody pls confirm that I'm not reading this?! TSC is pretty much the best "debating" channel we currently have in STO when it comes to game powers. :|

    Sounds like an Appeal to Authority Fallacy to me. The both of you are winning at losing.

    Please remind me, what are we discussing again that equals loosing or winning here? Is this still about leech or did I overread too many of your posts?
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    are you just an edge lord attempting and failing at being clever?

    I could ask you the very same thing. :)

    I'm presenting arguments based on reasoning
    Hahahahaha!

    ..oh wait, it's already April? Carry on. :D

    I understand the Science Channel is not the Debate Channel. Carry on.

    Oh my, I'm not reading this, right? Could anybody pls confirm that I'm not reading this?! TSC is pretty much the best "debating" channel we currently have in STO when it comes to game powers. :|

    Sounds like an Appeal to Authority Fallacy to me. The both of you are winning at losing.

    Please remind me, what are we discussing again that equals loosing or winning here? Is this still about leech or did I overread too many of your posts?

    Yeah, pretty funny that we are winning or losing here when there isn't anything to win or lose in the first place. :D
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    are you just an edge lord attempting and failing at being clever?

    I could ask you the very same thing. :)

    I'm presenting arguments based on reasoning
    Hahahahaha!

    ..oh wait, it's already April? Carry on. :D

    I accept your admission of defeat. I understand the Science Channel is not the Debate Channel. Carry on.

    As you seem to know a great deal about debates, you should be familiar with what the situation is if one side has to claim they are winning the debate. The fact that you're approaching this convo in forums as an actual, serious debate makes it even more hilarious.
    Thanks for providing good start to my day.

    You gave up by offering rhetoric without an argument, quite specifically when I asked you to try again. What other conclusion could I come to?

    And how many arguments presented by you have we seen so far? I personally count 0.
  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    are you just an edge lord attempting and failing at being clever?

    I could ask you the very same thing. :)

    I'm presenting arguments based on reasoning
    Hahahahaha!

    ..oh wait, it's already April? Carry on. :D

    I understand the Science Channel is not the Debate Channel. Carry on.

    Oh my, I'm not reading this, right? Could anybody pls confirm that I'm not reading this?! TSC is pretty much the best "debating" channel we currently have in STO when it comes to game powers. :|

    Sounds like an Appeal to Authority Fallacy to me. The both of you are winning at losing.

    Please remind me, what are we discussing again that equals loosing or winning here? Is this still about leech or did I overread too many of your posts?

    *Losing, not loosing. You tell me, the two of you went out of your way to offer snarky ad hominem fallacy comments about my argument being wrong, without offering reasoning as to why it was. Please, offer some dialectic in addition to your rhetoric this time.
    "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
  • vampeiyrevampeiyre Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    are you just an edge lord attempting and failing at being clever?

    I could ask you the very same thing. :)

    I'm presenting arguments based on reasoning
    Hahahahaha!

    ..oh wait, it's already April? Carry on. :D

    I understand the Science Channel is not the Debate Channel. Carry on.

    Oh my, I'm not reading this, right? Could anybody pls confirm that I'm not reading this?! TSC is pretty much the best "debating" channel we currently have in STO when it comes to game powers. :|

    Sounds like an Appeal to Authority Fallacy to me. The both of you are winning at losing.

    Please remind me, what are we discussing again that equals loosing or winning here? Is this still about leech or did I overread too many of your posts?

    Yeah, pretty funny that we are winning or losing here when there isn't anything to win or lose in the first place. :D
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    are you just an edge lord attempting and failing at being clever?

    I could ask you the very same thing. :)

    I'm presenting arguments based on reasoning
    Hahahahaha!

    ..oh wait, it's already April? Carry on. :D

    I accept your admission of defeat. I understand the Science Channel is not the Debate Channel. Carry on.

    As you seem to know a great deal about debates, you should be familiar with what the situation is if one side has to claim they are winning the debate. The fact that you're approaching this convo in forums as an actual, serious debate makes it even more hilarious.
    Thanks for providing good start to my day.

    You gave up by offering rhetoric without an argument, quite specifically when I asked you to try again. What other conclusion could I come to?

    And how many arguments presented by you have we seen so far? I personally count 0.

    You've demonstrated an inability to parse the difference between dialectic and rhetoric, so I'm unsurprised. Your shortcomings are your problem, however, not mine. I understand the loser has a tendency to blame the ref, but blaming the ref doesn't undo your lack of understanding/skill, or undo your loss.
    "I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    vampeiyre wrote: »
    So just more whining because your obviously exploitative toys were taken away, which is tantamount to admitting you have no idea what you're doing, and can't survive on a fair and even playing field? Pretty much what I expected. You have no issues, learn to play or go away.


    Unexpected, coming from your mouth, but I'm glad to hear I have no issues. :P

    As for my 'your obviously exploitative toys', that's what makes reading your post so fun: you just foam around the mouth, without ever reading a word someone else says, right?! If you ever bothered to read a bit, you'd have noticed I've said many times I don't even use Exploders. I have many upgraded to Epic even, but I'm a traditionalist: I stick with what works for me, often in flagrante delicto against the current meta. I always carry a Tachyo, a Zero-Point, the Bioneural Infusion Circuits, Borg Console, and, of course, a Leech. And then 1 spare console for whatever I need for the occassion.

    And as for the Science channel not being for debate, you're beginning to sound like Trump more and more, with every passing day: just shout something, however ludicrous or outlandish, and just hope the volume of your voice will carry you a while. I did get a good laugh out of it again, though. :) So, thx for that. By all means, keep it up!
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    I stick with what works for me, often in flagrante delicto against the current meta. I always carry a Tachyo, a Zero-Point, the Bioneural Infusion Circuits, Borg Console, and, of course, a Leech. And then 1 spare console for whatever I need for the occassion.
    Please, tell me more about why the DPS meta has abandoned these.

    (last I checked they hadn't)
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    I stick with what works for me, often in flagrante delicto against the current meta. I always carry a Tachyo, a Zero-Point, the Bioneural Infusion Circuits, Borg Console, and, of course, a Leech. And then 1 spare console for whatever I need for the occassion.
    Please, tell me more about why the DPS meta has abandoned these.

    (last I checked they hadn't)


    Because the meta was to fill every sci console you had with Exploders (sometimes 5 even). Then there's simply no room for all the rest.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • newromulan#1567 newromulan Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    Have removed leech from most toons. Still using it on my Temporal main. Perhaps since it is a vengeance faw ship, the nukara Console should replace it?
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    Have removed leech from most toons. Still using it on my Temporal main. Perhaps since it is a vengeance faw ship, the nukara Console should replace it?

    wouldn't be a bad choice depending on your build. if you use drain or epg skills nukara would be better if not you may be better off sticking with leech.


    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • jodarkriderjodarkrider Member Posts: 2,097 Arc User
    I would like to give a friendly reminder to folks, to not needlessly use personal jabs at each other. There's been a bit of that and I'd rather not have to close the topic, if this keeps up. Discuss/argue the idea/opinion, don't jab at the person behind it, mmk?
    [10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.

    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
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    Find me on Twitterverse - @jodarkrider

  • quepanquepan Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    my biggest issue is that a band aid approach is done by nerfing a single item that alot more players have gotten access too instead of the real CREEP issue that is needed is diminishing returns for certain boosts to creep based on cstore and lock box traits ,consoles and such the EC Rich can afford these easy ,which isn't avail for the general average income player in the game .there needs to be a GOBAL PASS rather than a onesey twosey pass on a few EASY to get items rather a deeper look into these more less spread thru the population . they hurt those that have struggling DPS due to there EC and not wanting to play marketplace .
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    quepan wrote: »
    my biggest issue is that a band aid approach is done by nerfing a single item that alot more players have gotten access too instead of the real CREEP issue that is needed is diminishing returns for certain boosts to creep based on cstore and lock box traits ,consoles and such the EC Rich can afford these easy ,which isn't avail for the general average income player in the game .there needs to be a GOBAL PASS rather than a onesey twosey pass on a few EASY to get items rather a deeper look into these more less spread thru the population . they hurt those that have struggling DPS due to there EC and not wanting to play marketplace .

    Well yea that‘s right.

    You sadly belong to a minority understanding what’s going on. Cryptic toys around with the symptoms of power creep a bit while the core of the problem not only remains unaddressed but is pushed even further behind the curtains of shiny new gimmicks and toys.

    This is not about leech or embassy consoles, never was. This is about cheap DPS and a fast game progression as a result of it.
    If players want to get their hands on good consoles they are expected to buy em from C store bundles or lock box ships and not grab them for free from a fleet holding or for 5 mil on the exchange.

    Cryptic does fine with it. I mean they have a blind player base backing them up! Lol peeps around here cry about the OPness of embassy sci consoles on the one hand while applauding new railguns from zen store ships on the other.

    I’m Richie Rich in STO and don’t care that much as I see new opportunities to use my resources. What about the rest? I don’t know but also don’t really care as they all seem to be applauding too.
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    the railguns aren't really powerful, though; they're basically shittier versions of a KT photon because unlike the torpedo, it drains weapons power​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    the railguns aren't really powerful, though; they're basically shittier versions of a KT photon because unlike the torpedo, it drains weapons power​​

    A good DPSer got up to 13-15k consistently from an epic railgun which roughly equals plasma explosions from 2 embassy consoles.

    This “new” DPS just cost like 10 times more. Cryptic is not making a balance check; they are making a money check. ;)

    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    a good DPSer can get 50k or more out of standard issue gear - it doesn't stop it from being TRIBBLE​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    a good DPSer can get 50k or more out of standard issue gear - it doesn't stop it from being ****​​

    50k from a single weapon? could you link me to that? :)
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • newromulan#1567 newromulan Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    Well just over 3 weeks until then nerfs or balance depending on your view, goes live. Have there been any changes or modifications the Dev's have made to the leech or plasma consoles? If so I will updated the opening post.
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    edited April 2017
    Wait nerfing turrets? REALLY? what nonsense is this? Reminds me of when they last nerfed telepathy in CO lol.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • xclusiv11xclusiv11 Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Was a spender, as I've stated my positions on this power creep reduction pass, figured I'd spell it out in basic terms as well... won't get another $$ from me as this attempt at "balance" negates my reason for investment and it's not because of new content but rather some new shiny needs to be sold... nerf the old to sell new power creep is a quick spiral down, especially as the cash grabbing nature of it gets out to the general base...

    Will be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong about these changes, but all signs point to nerf and then business as usual (moar creep!!!!), sorry but no thanks
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    This is the best course of action in light what is going to happen, yea @xclusiv11.

    At my end cryptic will devalue investments worth of a couple of million Dil and well over 1 billion EC. Just like that. “Luckily” none of the stuff I got for RL money is addressed and the resources for the soon to be nerfed items I gathered while having a good time in game and pushing a few buttons. Still, taking away not only weeks but moths of game progression on my account just to bring my performance in line with those who don’t care certainly won’t have me open my wallet over it (lol).

    Thankfully this game is easy enough with lots of good gear one gets for free or with some mild efforts.

    I hope more DPSer will share your attitude and finally let the Space Barbie generation and the STO forum scrubs bankroll this title.
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    This is the best course of action in light what is going to happen, yea @xclusiv11.

    At my end cryptic will devalue investments worth of a couple of million Dil and well over 1 billion EC. Just like that. “Luckily” none of the stuff I got for RL money is addressed and the resources for the soon to be nerfed items I gathered while having a good time in game and pushing a few buttons. Still, taking away not only weeks but moths of game progression on my account just to bring my performance in line with those who don’t care certainly won’t have me open my wallet over it (lol).

    Thankfully this game is easy enough with lots of good gear one gets for free or with some mild efforts.

    I hope more DPSer will share your attitude and finally let the Space Barbie generation and the STO forum scrubs bankroll this title.

    I thought the space barbies DID bankroll this game? i mean the number of super DPS chasers is pretty puny and the moderate ones certainly don't spend much money to do what they do since they don't need to. But the silly people who MUST spend 100s of dollars to get a ToS connie or the ent-j...I could have sworn those guys have been in ever increasing numbers and are the real money these days.

    I really don’t have the figures napalm so no idea, sorry. With Leech and Embassy consoles some of the cheapest and easiest to get performance items get nuked. At the same time cryptic starts to release high performance - non ship bound console sets (with last lock box where the ships are TRIBBLE but the gear is good) and introduces completely new slots to fill on escorts. For me the message behind it is clear.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like STO and if their plans work out for them all’s fine. I learned my lesson with cryptic some time ago and had a good return over the nuked stuff as long as it lasted.

    All ships on my 10 toons have already been adjusted and still perform nicely. Another upgrade weekend and they are complete again.
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,587 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    This is the best course of action in light what is going to happen, yea @xclusiv11.

    At my end cryptic will devalue investments worth of a couple of million Dil and well over 1 billion EC. Just like that. “Luckily” none of the stuff I got for RL money is addressed and the resources for the soon to be nerfed items I gathered while having a good time in game and pushing a few buttons. Still, taking away not only weeks but moths of game progression on my account just to bring my performance in line with those who don’t care certainly won’t have me open my wallet over it (lol).

    Thankfully this game is easy enough with lots of good gear one gets for free or with some mild efforts.

    I hope more DPSer will share your attitude and finally let the Space Barbie generation and the STO forum scrubs bankroll this title.

    I thought the space barbies DID bankroll this game?


    We do! :)

    And the whole "being a petulant child because something we ALL knew was broken as all hell" is getting kinda old. Leech has been in game for years, and was WAI all the time. It wasn't broken. And if it ever could be said it was -- which it wasn't -- then the Devs themselves exploited it to the max, building all DrainX stuff around it to support it... which is why it wasn't broken.

    As for me personally, it's not about boycotts; it's simply a matter of trust. I really do spend quite a bit of money on this game. And, consequently, I need to be able to trust the Devs that said investement isn't obsoleted overnight. And no, I don't care about 'still being effective.' So, when I can no longer trust the Devs to have my stuffz retain their value, then it's simply pointless buying new stuffz.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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