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I am CrypticSpartan, the designer behind the rebalance, and I am here to answer your questions

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  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    The torpedo change was to be consistent with every other weapon enhancement and to remove the ability to "double-tap" Torpedo abilities.

    The change actually makes them inconsistent with other weapon enhancements. Beam: Fire at Will has a continuous effect during the duration of the firing timer, rather than a 'once-off' that must occur during the firing timer like the torpedo enhancements. Cannon: Rapid Fire and Cannon: Scatter Volley as well has continuous effects during the duration of their firing timers. The way the torpedoes worked was much closer to Beam: Overload, and is now inconsistent with it. And as it is now, as the torpedoes are STILL 'one shot during the firing cycle', they are still inconsistent with the rest.

    So you actually caused the opposite desired affect here.​​
    Post edited by orangeitis on
  • crypticspartan#0627 crypticspartan Member Posts: 847 Cryptic Developer
    Will science ships still be viable on Tacs?
    Viable is something players drive because 'viable' is about perception, which I do not control.

  • kitsunesnoutkitsunesnout Member Posts: 1,210 Arc User
    Ok better question this time, hopefully :P, is the Electro-Plasma System Flow skill in the space skill tree not supposed to benefit Emergency power to shields subsystem power boost (I haven't tested other emergency powers yet)? Currently it does not on tribble (I cannot test this on holodeck currently). I am very certain that at least in the past this skill did increase the power given, but that may have been before the skill revamp, so I just wanted to be absolutely sure of this and that it's working as intended on tribble.
  • dragonsbrethrendragonsbrethren Member Posts: 1,854 Arc User
    4.) Will the balance pass also cover the Dyson reputation consoles?(https://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Science_-_Shield_Refrequencer)

    You. I like you.

    (I'm not nearly as active on the forums, but the nigh-uselessness of Shield Refrequencers has been a sticking point for me since I did a Dyson theme build. Even in their initial nerfed state, Plasma-Generating consoles were still better, and they just got made more betterer today...)
  • crypticspartan#0627 crypticspartan Member Posts: 847 Cryptic Developer
    Ok better question this time, hopefully :P, is the Electro-Plasma System Flow skill in the space skill tree not supposed to benefit Emergency power to shields subsystem power boost (I haven't tested other emergency powers yet)? Currently it does not on tribble (I cannot test this on holodeck currently). I am very certain that at least in the past this skill did increase the power given, but that may have been before the skill revamp, so I just wanted to be absolutely sure of this and that it's working as intended on tribble.

    This was before the skill revamp. During the skill revamp, this interaction was removed, and their base power that they give you was increased.
  • kitsunesnoutkitsunesnout Member Posts: 1,210 Arc User
    Ok better question this time, hopefully :P, is the Electro-Plasma System Flow skill in the space skill tree not supposed to benefit Emergency power to shields subsystem power boost (I haven't tested other emergency powers yet)? Currently it does not on tribble (I cannot test this on holodeck currently). I am very certain that at least in the past this skill did increase the power given, but that may have been before the skill revamp, so I just wanted to be absolutely sure of this and that it's working as intended on tribble.

    This was before the skill revamp. During the skill revamp, this interaction was removed, and their base power that they give you was increased.

    Thanks, good to know, and glad it works like this! Wasn't sure if it was broken or not by the recent changes, and the wiki further confused me about it.
  • agarwaencranmalk#7586 agarwaencranmalk Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    Will science ships still be viable on Tacs?
    Viable is something players drive because 'viable' is about perception, which I do not control.

    You do know about the CLR (or CLM...)? It's not about perception. It's about ice cold numbers. Which come from the game. You control the numbers. Players look at the numbers. And the numbers determen, what a player can consider a viable choice. "Viable" is not about perception, it's about how an ability or a class or a skill compare to what could be used in its stead.

    Just thinking, something is good doesn't kill Borg. That's a bit too post-factual for me...
  • tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    Apologies for the question one last time, Spartan, about GW's power formula (I might be misreading your response, and I'm annoyed with myself that I'm not getting it).

    Of the 3 formulae you mention, which one was the ability using:

    1.) Before the Skill Revamp?
    2.) Currently?
    3.) On Tribble?

    Also, which one was it supposed to to be using since the revamp that it hasn't been?
  • hipachilleshipachilles Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    I have read that there is a difference between the crit chance and severity between weapon and exotic abilities. For example, Particle Manipulator enhances critical hits "for exotic damage abilities" which seems to be different than the regular crit hit chance and severity listed on the skills tab. When a console or trait boosts critical hit chance/severity, is this for weapons (energy and torpedo/mine) only, or would it also affect exotic damage crits?

    Furthermore, the Science skill ultimate Probability Manipulator description refers to itself as:"vastly increasing the chance that every bit of damage done to your foes will be a critical hit." The tooltip says its affect will "set critical chance to 50% for 30s." Edited: With the changes to FBP notwithstanding, it seems this should also affect exotic damage abilities as well. If so, what is the interaction between particle manipulator and probability manipulator?

    As an aside, now that FPB will not be affected by critical hit chance, does this refer to the crit % listed under skills, exotic critical hit % from particle manipulator, or both? I have read that Grav Well is affected by crit %, but not severity at all, is this true or just misinformation? If true, are there other exotic damage abilities which would not have damage affected by critical %/severity besides GW and FBP?
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    I guess I do have a few questions.

    1) Is there any consideration of dropping cannon and mine boff abilities down a slot? As primarily a KDF player, I tend to use cannons in my build including my Fleet K'Tinga. It can only slot 1 Cannon ability in the LT. tac slot, but it can slot 2 levels of beam or torpedo abilities. It might diversify builds a bit if those abilities were moved down and only APB, APBD, APBO were left at the Commander level.

    2) Is there any consideration of reworking Dual Cannons? They seem like the forgotten step children of weapon types since they have a faster rate of fire than DHC's, but DHC's are preferred because of their innate Severity bonus.

    3) Will there be a look at balancing out old Reputation Ground and Space sets with the newer sets? It seems like many of the older sets do not keep up well with the newer sets like the Iconian 4-Piece set.

    Thanks for your hard work and taking the time to listen to the players.

    1. This is unlikely to happen due to the complications involved in doing so.

    2. I am evaluating the benefits of non-heavy vs heavy cannons.

    3. As I mentioned in the opening post, I can't post speculation about anything else that might be changed until there are patchnotes that detail those changes.


    Thank you for the kind words. :)

    You could just give Dual Cannons 90° and a slight reduction in DMG, so you can mix and match..
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    patrickngo wrote: »
    two simple questions...

    1. Was there a look/discussion about APA in relation to exotic damage when the rebalance was being formulated? Is this how Deflector overcharging was formulated (to preserve Tactical dominance with Science powers?).

    Already been replied to at least twice by OP upthread, both times amounting to "no comment". I think we can drop this line of inquiry for now

    2. How will Subnuc k the Boff Power be delivered to the players once the changes go live? Will it have to be crafted, will it be available (from a vendor?), will we have to buy a lockbox for it or what? ? Will it actually be available to all factions, or will it be another Federation Exclusive?

    As to number 2, my science bridge officers have it show up (albeit greyed-out) in the list of skills they can learn, without any indication that it needs a box manual or one obtained in any way other than via a vendor/player crafting. This holds for science officers of all 3 factions. My guess is that spending points in the skill, tree, like rank 3 of most other craftable manuals, will be required to create it. It seems unlikely that something that was a captain (i.e. player character) skill for all 3 factions would suddenly become federation-exclusive.

    Edit: After a quick look on Tribble to confirm, science captains of all 3 factions can indeed train rank 3 and buy ranks 1 & 2 at their respective bridge officer trainers. Not sure what points in the skill tree unlock it, and the training manual in the 'Officer Training' part of the R&D tab uses the icon for the wrong ability.
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    I do have a few concerns about the Subnucleonic Beam change that stand out:
    • This noticeably biases Science Captains towards Science ships - all ships can easily make use of it, but it is much better at some than others. There is already some amount of precedent for this in all the careers, but this is the most clear-cut case yet.
    • This makes Science Captains less useful in PvP, and the bridge officer power will be especially strong there.
    • As a Bridge Officer Power, it is going to be difficult to make the Commander rank something desirable over the Lt. Commander rank without breaking the power, and its balance relative to Subnucleonic Carrier Wave is also a point of concern.

    None of those are surprises; but that why I have put this out there with the initial set of changes and been asking for feedback.

    My current suggestion for a solution is to make the buff-stripping component of Subnucleonic Beam part of the effects of the Engineering skill tree ultimate: EPS Corruption.
    • This makes this effect available to all captains, on all ships if they want it badly enough.
    • It gives what is widely regarded as the weakest ultimate a clear and powerful role (at least in PvP).
    • It avoids introducing a new Boff ability. And the corresponding complaints "I have to give up one of my strongest science seats to do what I was doing before".
    • It makes buff removal an Engineering flavored effect, quite fitting with the tendency of the 'Scotty's of the Star Trek setting to be the ones who sabotage the enemy's technological terrors. And while Science may be losing some identity, Engineer desperately needs some active identity beyond "soaks up hull hits".
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    I will see about adding mine ranges to the mine launchers; that is a better solution than me posting them all here, especially as they may change again.

    Thank you. Hopefully the Hot Pursuit trait will also be directly reflected in the new tooltips.

    That's one of my favorite space traits for "dramatically changes the feel of the game". I would love to see mines in the rear weapon slots of escorts become more of a thing.
    If you are on the immunity lockout and an automatic immunity would otherwise trigger, it does not. You do not lose it; it does not trigger until the next time that something attempts to trigger it and you do not have the lockout.

    The reverse case is the one that interests me. When one of my passive immunities triggers the lockout, exactly what happens to Rock-and-Roll? Greyed out? Can be used, but I gain no immunity? (which would be worse than greying out IMO...)
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    We've seen a significant jump (+100%) in the subsystem power offered by the four +Power consoles. We've also seen several captains skills rebalanced in this pass (crit magnitude contribution).

    Would you consider increasing the amount of subsytem power being offered by the Engineering tree skills Defensive Subsytem Tuning, Offensive Subsystem tuning, Warp Core Potential, and possibly Warp Core Efficiency? Especially in light of the new Weapon Power tuning?

    The entire yellow line has some bang-for-the-buck issues. It would be nice to lure people off of some of those heavily red or heavily blue builds.
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    Philosophical question: You've mentioned you don't want science captains to be the only profession able to play vampire at the highest levels of effectiveness. What do you see as the desired level of performance and gameplay experience of ships focused on drain but without Deflector Overcharge? In your opinion, what should being a 'space-vampire' feel like when you're in properly built/equipped vessel and you are playing that role well?

    Can you point to any instanced content where you feel bringing a vampire to the team would be/should be preferable to a straight DPS ship?
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    Momentary 'space Barbie' question: Kelvin Timeline Phaser emitters have a really cool visual effect when you click Beam: Overload. The 'overcharged' shot is just beefy-looking. Now that Overload has a lingering effect, is there anything you can do so we see that effect on all the pulses while they're buffed and not just that first pulse? Or maybe have them use that animation every time they crit or something?

    I know it's small, and silly, but that FX makes me feel SSSOOO POWAHFULL!! :grin:

    And I'd still like a way to get [Over] and [Rapid] on lockbox weapons. The absolute dream being some sort of crafted consumable item that lets me select an existing mod on an item and re-roll it or even ...swoon... choose what mod to replace it with!
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    And I'd still like a way to get [Over] and [Rapid] on lockbox weapons. The absolute dream being some sort of crafted consumable item that lets me select an existing mod on an item and re-roll it or even ...swoon... choose what mod to replace it with!

    the only way this would likely happen is if they make lockbox and other special weapons craftable - which they absolutely need to do

    have the first weapon pack you pull from X lockbox drop a recipe that let you craft a random weapon type - a bit like how crafting motifs work in ESO, except instead of unlocking a crafting style for specific gear, you're unlocking the crafting of the gear itself

    having a recipe only unlock one type at a time instead of every weapon type at once encourages opening of multiple boxes to collect 'em all, which is good for cryptic

    and as for special weapons like Dominion Polaron or Resonating Tetryon...those can just be removed from their respective missions and full recipes added, like how they removed nanoenergy cells as reward choices from second wave and added a crafting recipe for them in their place​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    I haven't really thought deeply about it, but it's hard to imagine that any of the existing science bridge officer powers will be as important as Subnucleonic Beam in PvP.
    Gravity Well? Might deal some damage, but what if the enemy pops a speed buff or control immunity?
    Destabilizing Resonance Beam? Sure, if he doesn't pop a speed buff or control immunity to get away...
    Scramble Sensors? Sure, if he or a team mate doesn't pop a Science Team...
    Pretty much any power you can think of would be better if there was an SNB available, too, and a lot weaker if there isn't.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    so they just bump rank 1 down to lt and rank 2 down to ltc before everything goes live and they CAN'T

    i never understood why they had multiple ranks of powers taking up the same slot anyway - when a weaker and stronger version of something is fighting for space, everyone is ALWAYS going to take the stronger version

    like, how many people do you actually SEE using GW2 in a sci commander seat instead of GW3? you don't, because no one intelligent does​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • kaarruukaarruu Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    Do you have plans to revisit the ground changes made earlier? Such as restoring Stealth Module to a state where it isn't horrible and useless or adding career-specific team buffs to the list of things Tactical Initiative affects?
  • tygerzztygerzz Member Posts: 105 Arc User
    First and foremost thanks for the responses.
    This may have been answereded before but outside of the three goals that you outlined for the rebalancing, what is the driving force or underlying issues you are trying to solve with this rebalance? Certainly the overall decrease in damage leads to longer mission times, longer lasting ques, and might be a step in the right direction towards some balance between the haves and have nots. But the majority of these are just perceived benefits/costs. I am curious as to your personal expectations with regards to this rebalance and what you hope to achieve beyond the scaling back of some over performing equipment.?
    Thanks inadvance for your consideration.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    I haven't really thought deeply about it, but it's hard to imagine that any of the existing science bridge officer powers will be as important as Subnucleonic Beam in PvP.
    Gravity Well? Might deal some damage, but what if the enemy pops a speed buff or control immunity?
    Destabilizing Resonance Beam? Sure, if he doesn't pop a speed buff or control immunity to get away...
    Scramble Sensors? Sure, if he or a team mate doesn't pop a Science Team...
    Pretty much any power you can think of would be better if there was an SNB available, too, and a lot weaker if there isn't.

    then consider the possibility that we've got a new "Must Have" that can't be equipped on a range of cruisers and escorts. What I'm suggesting is that anything that does not have a LTC sci seat, is going to be non-viable for PvP regardless of it's other stats.

    That will be the ultimate consequence, if my (and your) assumptions are right. I haven't PvPed in a long time, but even a short 1v1 PvP in Ker'rat yesterday reminded me of the value of SNB against players.

    Though, imagine for a moment the state of PvP if there was no SNB at all. Could anyone or anything half-way competent even be killed? (What if there was still SNB Wave from Intel? What if even that was missing?)
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    patrickngo wrote: »
    tobiashirt wrote: »
    patrickngo wrote: »
    two simple questions...

    1. Was there a look/discussion about APA in relation to exotic damage when the rebalance was being formulated? Is this how Deflector overcharging was formulated (to preserve Tactical dominance with Science powers?).

    Already been replied to at least twice by OP upthread, both times amounting to "no comment". I think we can drop this line of inquiry for now

    2. How will Subnuc k the Boff Power be delivered to the players once the changes go live? Will it have to be crafted, will it be available (from a vendor?), will we have to buy a lockbox for it or what? ? Will it actually be available to all factions, or will it be another Federation Exclusive?

    As to number 2, my science bridge officers have it show up (albeit greyed-out) in the list of skills they can learn, without any indication that it needs a box manual or one obtained in any way other than via a vendor/player crafting. This holds for science officers of all 3 factions. My guess is that spending points in the skill, tree, like rank 3 of most other craftable manuals, will be required to create it. It seems unlikely that something that was a captain (i.e. player character) skill for all 3 factions would suddenly become federation-exclusive.

    Edit: After a quick look on Tribble to confirm, science captains of all 3 factions can indeed train rank 3 and buy ranks 1 & 2 at their respective bridge officer trainers. Not sure what points in the skill tree unlock it, and the training manual in the 'Officer Training' part of the R&D tab uses the icon for the wrong ability.

    I was pretty awkward writing those and probably blew it on phrasing and formulation of question. With Subnuke being a LTC power, that pretty much puts the coffin on "Science officer in an escort/cruiser" if the escort or cruiser doesn't have a LTC seat that's either Universal or Science.

    that and with most of the USEFUL offensive sci requiring LTC or higher seating...this can create defined state of "Non viable in PvP" for a whole group of ships that were previously quite effective-esp. since you can run the following stack;

    APO,+APA+ Subnuke, CRF1/THY2 or SST (for intel seated ships). two patterns buff the attack, and you strip the target's buffs and resists right before the spike hits and well before he can cleanse the effect. the change is DEFINETLY gong to shift the balance of power in PvP firmly into the tac players hands, being as nothing really shows an equivalent with the other careers.

    Yeah, that could be a problem...most of the ships I used for intrafleet stuff had a ltcom sci anyways, but not all. I still can't figure out what a good change is besides making it a boff power, because I can see the reasoning that having a single ability be the main reason you want sci in pvp is odd. Perhaps make the c/d a minimum 3 mins, or bring it's floor to that of captain abilities? You still do have to give up a ltcom or better science ability for one of the killing combos you described every couple of minutes.
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