The criticism of DO being nowhere near as versatile as APA is on point. It's hard to come up with alternatives that distinguish the ability as different from what Tacs get and still retains its usefulness across all ships and builds. I felt subnuc was oddly useless until you really needed it and then it was "the greatest ability evar!", and in maps where it was useful it was hurt by its high cd timer, so handing it over to my bridge officers should be extremely useful. I get a feeling the devs are only going to get more crafty with our upcoming foes in this regard.
So what could we spitball that would make DO or an alternate ability universally appealing?
+x% exotic damage added to all damage output (a bit samey as APA, but it requires little imagination)
Insta cooldown all epic consoles. (my ship would subsequently become THE Swiss army knife of epic consoles. But seriously, this ability would be useless to new players. Forget I mentioned it)
Resurrect photonic copies of all defeated enemies to fight as allies for a brief time. (I'd kill to see this as a visual)
Tod - you become Tod, destroyer of worlds. Nothing can escape the purifying flames of Tod's immortal wrath. Lasts 5 seconds. (female captains become Phillipa)
So what could we spitball that would make DO or an alternate ability universally appealing?
I'd throw out the idea of 'Scientific Initiative'. A copy of Tactical Initiative except working on science abilities, but then engineers would need a version too. Yes it works best when you have lots of science BOffs, but it's not dependent of the abilities of those BOff unlike Deflector Overcharge.
Fact 2: Subnucleonic Beam has virtually no use whatsoever outside of PvP.
Fact 3: Deflector Overcharge will be actually useful in PvE, which is what most players actually play 99% of the time.
So, what part of this being a positive change for everyone who doesn't play PvP is so difficult to understand? Moreover, how can Subnuc be a "fundamental" part of Science Captain gameplay when it is only of use in a game mode almost nobody plays? My copy isn't even slotted on my action bar because it's bloody useless against NPCs. Removing it doesn't affect me at all, replacing it with something I can actually use benefits me.
Get it? Subnuc for most players is about as useful as a snowmobile in a place where it never snows. Saying "it'd be really useful if you moved to Canada!" might be true, but it doesn't change the fact that it's useless where you actually live. Trading it in for a motorcycle instead is a wise move. Even if you don't plan to use the motorcycle, it at least has the possibility of being used unlike the snowmobile which never will.
Deflector overcharge in its current state is severely flawed and skewed towards exotic damage builds and heal boats which I don't find useful at all in PvE given the fact they also nerfed control and drain abilites. Subnuc is pretty powerful as it is now and it's being changed to a kind of annoyance that anyone can throw around in PvP which sucks.
In my opinion, Science captains should keep both Deflector Overcharge AND Subnucleonic Beam.
The better option would be make Scattering Field a BOFF ability, like an AoE Polarize hull. It will encourage formation flying. Kind of like Lucio in Overwatch.
1 min CD, 15 sec duration.
Rank I at Lt. At 100 Aux = 50 DR
Rank II at Lt. Com = 60 DR
Rank III at Com = 70 DR
Subnuke is definatly useful in PvE. Like against the Voth Dreadnought in Borg Disconnected or basically any boss battle.
Subnuke requires careful watch over the enemy buff icons. Its more a a scalpel than a hammer like Deflector Overcharge. I dislike subnuke becoming a BOFF ability because it is being replaced by a watered down Attack Pattern Alpha.
If APA buffs were limited to weapons only, then we have one captain ability that buffs science, and one captain ability that buffs weapons, and that would be balanced.
APA should not be limited to weapons only. It would not be balanced. Captains should be encouraged to fly any ship. This keeps players interested in any content even if they only have one or two toons, revenue incoming to Cryptic, and the lights on for everyone for ongoing and future development.
Set bonuses, lockbox and lobi gear, C-Store purchases, all are meant to work together to make players more likely to buy more or packs. Narrowing captains to ship types after 7 years is 7 years too late.
APA only boosts the exotic damage side of Science ships, not their healing potential, or control and drain capabilities which are only truly maximized in such ships. Engineers will boost and overcap power levels including aux, and help with survival and healing which are still relevant on Sci ships.
Scattering field will receive an indirect boost, making it no longer trigger red alert, a feature that left me stranded out of battle so often that I hardly used it.
If going by Overwatch analogies, SF nor polarize hull are like Lucio's AoE since he heals or speed boosts or drops the beat which is temporary hit points. It is instead closer to a mobile Winston or Orisa shield that gives damage resistance against incoming energy damage to anyone inside it, but even that's stretching it since there is no central shield that absorbs all energy damage before crumbling.
Instead of DO, I would have liked SNB to have stayed put and instead received some rework when used against NPCs, or increase the PvE scenarios where SNB would have a proper impact, and that's in addition to the concerns mentioned earlier.
Devs: Provide the option to Turn OFF full screen flashes from enemy ship explosions
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Im only saying that if science captains only get Deflector Overcharge, then Tac Captains should only get a weapons based APA. If Subnuke stays, then I think APA should stay the same too.
Deflector Overcharge is completely superior to Subnucleonic Beam. Science Captains can now buff their science damage the way tactical captains have been able to do with Attack Pattern Alpha, and Tactical Fleet for years...
This is false as: Science Captain =/= science ship/build.
I like the more generalist approach to captain abilities that has always existed and I don't appreciate being pigeonholed to a particular type of build and playstyle.
Losing a generalist power that any type of ship may find useful at some point such as the Subnucleonic Beam in favor of a heavily science-centric power is just terrible.
So...your tact ship build has ZERO exotic damage?!? I'm sorry, but mine...that has an ensign science boff seating and a uni I am using for sci has 4 boff abilities that does exotic damage and would benefit from this. Also since this would boost radiation proc off weapons, some off choice weapons now becomes more useful to sci captains...even in tactical ships. Kemo would also get boosted by this as well. You seem to be under the mistaken impression that all changes have to be a benefit to your current build or it's ****. Well stop being so YOU centric and think about what these changes opens up for what you can do. I haven't been this excited about this game in over a year now since I basically had my builds all set for what I was gonna spend on this game by then and it was log in for about an hour, blow stuff up in my favorite trek ships, log off. Maybe do events. This is like the next best thing to a whole new game.
So just a heads up..Kemocite is not Exotic Radiation...So it doesn't benefit from the Exotic Damage boost from Deflector Overcharge.
Subnucleonic Beam is used roughly once a month, maybe.
Deflector Overcharge, will be useful every cooldown,
Even if Deflector Overcharge ONLY had the buffs to heals, control resists, and drain resists. It would still be more useful than Subnucleonic Beam. For ANY SHIP you are flying.
Better heals and resists are ALWAYS good. You are always being shot at...
Deflector Overcharge as a defensive ability that stacks with Sci Fleet, and Scattering Field.
Giving you stacking bonuses to shield heals, shield hardness, and defensive bonuses vs energy.
I can honestly not see how anyone in their right mind would prefer Subnucleonic Beam over Deflector Overcharge.
I'm kinda on the fence with this. Deflector Overcharge sounds like a very powerful damage boost for my exotic builds, certainly, and I know I'm going to love my "Science Pattern Alpha".
But on the other hand, Subnucleonic Beam, not being the most useful ability in PvE, found it's uses being a captain ability. Subnuking Borg Queen when she had FBP up in HSE was always very helpful to do, so the tacs wouldn't hurt themselves. Now, after it being converted into a BOFF ability, there would be no logical reason why you should pick subnuke over the myriad of very useful sci abilities we already have, unless they are going to change the ways queues work or implement newer ones that actually require subnuke.
But it really feels like the subnuke was made into a boff ability to appease eng/tacs from all those 10 PvPers STO has left, so they wouldn't go "Waaaahh! Science OP! They subnuked my immunities!"
Subnucleonic Beam is used roughly once a month, maybe.
Deflector Overcharge, will be useful every cooldown,
Even if Deflector Overcharge ONLY had the buffs to heals, control resists, and drain resists. It would still be more useful than Subnucleonic Beam. For ANY SHIP you are flying.
Better heals and resists are ALWAYS good. You are always being shot at...
Deflector Overcharge as a defensive ability that stacks with Sci Fleet, and Scattering Field.
Giving you stacking bonuses to shield heals, shield hardness, and defensive bonuses vs energy.
I can honestly not see how anyone in their right mind would prefer Subnucleonic Beam over Deflector Overcharge.
Subnuke is used on Elite Queue bosses. Why not keep both DO and SNB then? Lets drop scattering field as a captain ability and instead. Lets propose changes to subnuke to better suit a variety of uses in PvE. I think once the other damage nerfs go through, enemies will be stronger and we wont be able to Spacebar through with pure DPS. We might have to actually think about strategies and use teamwork like every other game.
I can honestly not see how anyone in their right mind would prefer Subnucleonic Beam over Deflector Overcharge.
I know right? Outside of PVP, there is no reason to prefer to have subnuke. And, like we've said many times, subnuke is still available for those who want it.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I can honestly not see how anyone in their right mind would prefer Subnucleonic Beam over Deflector Overcharge.
I know right? Outside of PVP, there is no reason to prefer to have subnuke. And, like we've said many times, subnuke is still available for those who want it.
It has its uses for Elite Queue bosses and the like. For you, DO is better for your style of play. But for me and others, SNB is more useful. Better yet, lets petition to keep both abilities and drop Scattering Field.
I can honestly not see how anyone in their right mind would prefer Subnucleonic Beam over Deflector Overcharge.
I know right? Outside of PVP, there is no reason to prefer to have subnuke. And, like we've said many times, subnuke is still available for those who want it.
It has its uses for Elite Queue bosses and the like. For you, DO is better for your style of play. But for me and others, SNB is more useful. Better yet, lets petition to keep both abilities and drop Scattering Field.
See bolded/underlined part.
For you and others, subnuke is more useful on the 6 or so maps that it's useful. For me AND hundreds of times more "others" on my side, DO will be more useful in the hundreds of maps in which we care about it being useful.
Also, like I've already said. We will have both. You can keep subnuke.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Id like to keep both as Captain abilities. SNB is much more useful than Scattering Field. Im not surprised if you and many other science captains only know how to stack science DPS. Thats fine if you choose to play like that. But it doesnt need to be a choice between DO and SNB. Both are strong abilities and should be kept to stay relevant with Tacs and Engineers.
If science captains lose SNB to DO, I think that Tacs should lose global APA. A Tac toon can also boost science damage, while also boosting weapons all at the same time.
I would bet my life, and Bill Gates could stake his entire estate, on it definitely not being anyone who ever seriously did/does PvP who 'waaaah'd to allow everyone, but particularly Tacs, to use SNB. So lets just not go there.
What is far more likely is that the Devs know their players, and since it would likely prove far too upsetting (given the reactions to even the mere suggestion that it should happen) to certain Captains running certain builds if ApA suddenly didn't buff their exotic stuff, they had to invent ApSci which in turn meant sacrificing a Sci Cap power because I guess it's easier/more balanced/whatever than adding an additional captain power to all classes. I get it, I don't agree, but I get why some wouldn't like it (<- changing ApA).
One very real issue when making yellow and blue more relevant by looking at, and 'improving' them from what I can only describe as a 'red' point of view is that red itself may someday become far less relevant - since, what else do they have that makes them relevant in the first place apart from ability to do damage? What do you then do to bring them back on a par? End up with the same situation that provoked this change and then do it all over and over again? - You can call it a straw man, and perhaps it is, but it is a potential future state of affairs worth considering if this balancing isn't handled with care.
Surely for gameplay and fun's sake it's better to make the other aspects of blue and yellow, case in point - SNB as just one example among many, more relevant rather than just make them more like red? Like for real, I'm not saying that all three shouldn't be able to kill stuff, just kinda asking why everything, always, has to boil down to the direct damage output capability of a single player? Even if we do away with Tac/Eng/Sci, and have just Cap'ns, all the same issues will still exist in the Red/Yellow/Blue of the stuff that all the things do.
IDK. All I'm saying is that if blue and yellow being relevant means doing similar damage to red, then red is largely irrelevant since blue and yellow will then inevitably be, and arguably already are, much more 3D (read 'useful' and 'fun' in all circumstances) than the often 1D red, the undisputed reign of whose one-dimentionality (is that even a word?) is, arguably, where, way back when in the long long ago, it started us all on this whole 'something needs to be done about X and Y when used with A' journey in the first place.
TL/DR: Balance is (or should be) about far, far more than just damage output capability disparity and the poly-usefulness metrics of certain abilities. For me SNB -> DO, while I'm sure it'll register 1000 times more on that metrics click counter in the Dev control room, is just giving blue a redder tint and doesn't adress any underlying problems the game may have. AI being one.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I really don't have a problem with Attack Pattern Alpha buffing exotic damage.
I think the magnitude of the damage buff is still a bit ridiculous... I'd be happier if the duration went back to 30 seconds but the magnitude dropped to about 30%
APA Should only buff weapon damage, but it's not the only captain Tac ability that buffs exotic,
Tactical Fleet does too, though most don't complain cause this buffs every one in the group.
Go down fighting buffs all damage as well, though it is a situational ability.
Hell even Fire On My Mark buffs exotic damage, though indirectly through damage resist penalty instead of direct buff.
This is like giving the Warriors in the game the ability to buff their magic damage, alongside their weapon damage and NOT giving Wizards anything to buff their magic damage.
Every Tac captain ability that buffs damage, buffs exotic too. And that's what is messed up,
Science has precisely... One, captain ability that buffs exotic damage. That is sensor scan, which does it by way of damage resist penalty, which means it buffs everyone attacking those targets as well. Totally not complaining about Sensor Scan here, always been an amazing ability.
But as it stands Science has to slot Conservation of Energy as a trait to even come close to matching what a Tac can do out of the box. And still loses.
Deflector Overcharge goes a long way to changing this.
A Science Captain using Science abilities should be the BEST at them. PERIOD.
I really don't have a problem with Attack Pattern Alpha buffing exotic damage.
I think the magnitude of the damage buff is still a bit ridiculous... I'd be happier if the duration went back to 30 seconds but the magnitude dropped to about 30%
I could definitely agree with there being a difference between Exotic and Weapon buff magnitude. For me, it's not about nerfing this, or that, or pigeonholing anyone. The diversity of options is why I have such a love/hate relationship with this game. I just think Red, Blue and Yellow each ought to be able to do Red, Blue and Yellow the best respectively. Nothing amazingly drastic, just, Purple, Orange and Green ought to lose something from each of their primaries, still being just as useful, just in a different way, is all. Cookie cutter, the 'best' this, the 'must-have' that in a perfect world shouldn't be a thing. The further toward the edge of this colour wheel you go, the more you ought to actually need a mix from the other side of the spectrum - ie: another player. (Fancy that in a 5 player mission in a MMO...). Similarly, if you're bang in the middle, you ought not to be amazing at anything. Decent, compentent, but not amazing.
Like, it's not rocket science. The stuff we can do is basically a circle filled with the spectrum, and when you choose your class, ship, skill, traits and so on, you put a dot on that circle. Where you put that dot is entirely up to you - If you're red, and you put the dot in the reddest bit, you will (potentially) be the best red there can be, but you are as far away from yellow and blue as you can be, so you will (=should) mostly suck at those things. And when I say suck, like, you can vape a gateway, but staying alive should be bring support or go home level of suck. No-one expects a healer to do any real noticable damage, so glass cannons should be more of a thing than they currently are, but since they're not, you don't really see any healers, etc. The problem as I see it is that while the above is generally true, the circle uses quantum mechanics and creative accounting to make the red bit closer to the blue and the yellow than the blue and yellow are to the red. It's a skewed circle, basically.
If you are yellow or blue and you do the same, you'll still be very red and very good at being red, but you'll be better at staying alive, for example, or speed tanking with better engine power options (hence, as one example, the leech changes, perhaps?), but honestly, if you really really really want to be the best red you can possibly be, like, roll red? Same goes for blue and yellow. Which, going back to the quoted post, means it makes sense in the end for ApA to do something to buff exotics, since we'll assume that it's a 'purple' build with a redder tint for the damage. Presumably that's part of the decision making process when making a new character? I wanna be damage focused so I choose red? I mean in other MMOs, the choices are mostly pretty clear and so you don't (generally) get people who play, say, the heal class moaning about how they ought to be doing more damage. It's less clear cut in STO I'll admit, and that is a good thing, but the analogy fits I think.
I don't know. There are so many synergies in this game that something will always be missed by any balance pass, and good teams/players will always know or work out how to make use of them. Some will call them expoits or hax, but whatever they are, I would just like Infected and Crystalline, apart from having Elite versions again, to last longer again and require much more teamwork than they do now - runs with specific personal objectives aside (DPS Channel, for example), and for it to be more difficult to not die and vape stuff at the same time across the board generally, even in advanced queues. If this balance pass achieves that, I'll be happy. Gating the first character on an account from Adv and Elite queues until they've got to Tier 3, 4 or 5 (and then gating T4 or 5 characters from doing Normals?) on the rep for that run might be an idea to look at too and might even make any subsequent balance passes easier to do simply due to having to cater just that little bit less to newer/more casual players? - but that's way off topic and will derail this thread.
What red is pretty clear, sure there are some yellow and blue elements to some red stuff - ApD, Target SubSys and some others, but for the most part essentially it's make stuff go boom through direct buffs and escapy run away cheese. It seems to me that defining Blue and Yellow is a lot harder to do, and that gets more and more difficult the more you mix Red, Blue and Yellow with eachother, so I guess that's partly why we are where we are. Maybe it is more like rocket science after all?
TL/DR?: IDK. It's complicated. Good luck devs. Rather you than me is all I'll say.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
And there it comes, the big deal about why replacing the almost always totally useless subnuke with the always at least somewhat useful DO is supposedly a bad thing...because it isn't APA.
Come on, Cryptic, let the us switch classes like we do specializations, so the poor wannabes can stop filling the forums with their jealousy.
And there it comes, the big deal about why replacing the almost always totally useless subnuke with the always at least somewhat useful DO is supposedly a bad thing...because it isn't APA.
Come on, Cryptic, let the us switch classes like we do specializations, so the poor wannabes can stop filling the forums with their jealousy.
Except I don't want to be a Tactical Captain, I want to be a Science Captain that's not completely inferior. I'm not jealous of Attack Pattern Alpha, I just fail to see why Tactical Captains who are supposed to excel at weapon damage, should have abilities that buff exotic damage, when Science Captains do not have them.
Isnt the whole point of the sci class to do exotic damage?
No. Science Vessels do exotic damage. Science captains in space are a random grab-bag of powers. Some players want to dictate how Science captains should be played, because of their personal preference of character and ship combination.
And there it comes, the big deal about why replacing the almost always totally useless subnuke with the always at least somewhat useful DO is supposedly a bad thing...because it isn't APA.
Come on, Cryptic, let the us switch classes like we do specializations, so the poor wannabes can stop filling the forums with their jealousy.
Except I don't want to be a Tactical Captain, I want to be a Science Captain that's not completely inferior. I'm not jealous of Attack Pattern Alpha, I just fail to see why Tactical Captains who are supposed to excel at weapon damage, should have abilities that buff exotic damage, when Science Captains do not have them.
So you say. Yet nobody here complains about the specializations being "completely inferior," they just switch to what they like better.
You want to play a science captain because you're stuck playing a science captain, not because you actually like the "completely inferior" science captain abilities.
Which is why it would be better for everyone if classes were switchable, or even better, replaced with a freeform selection of abilities like boff training manuals.
And there it comes, the big deal about why replacing the almost always totally useless subnuke with the always at least somewhat useful DO is supposedly a bad thing...because it isn't APA.
Come on, Cryptic, let the us switch classes like we do specializations, so the poor wannabes can stop filling the forums with their jealousy.
Except I don't want to be a Tactical Captain, I want to be a Science Captain that's not completely inferior. I'm not jealous of Attack Pattern Alpha, I just fail to see why Tactical Captains who are supposed to excel at weapon damage, should have abilities that buff exotic damage, when Science Captains do not have them.
So you say. Yet nobody here complains about the specializations being "completely inferior," they just switch to what they like better.
You want to play a science captain because you're stuck playing a science captain, not because you actually like the "completely inferior" science captain abilities.
Which is why it would be better for everyone if classes were switchable, or even better, replaced with a freeform selection of abilities like boff training manuals.
No, actually I enjoy my Science Captains, all three of them just fine. I enjoyed them when they were bottom of the barrel, I've been steadily enjoying the improvement they have been getting for a while. I'm not "Stuck" playing a Science captain, I have always loved my Science Characters, I pretty much only play them, and have only played them the whole time I have played this game, which has been since around the year 1 anniversary.
Noticing the illogical nature of some of the design choices does not equate to jealousy, or envy, or sour grapes. Sometimes it's just common sense.
A Science Captain using Science abilities should be the BEST at them. PERIOD.
Except that, as it is now even without DO, they already are with the exception of exotic damage or exotic spike damage, and they can SNB which no other class can do.
If NPCs were less Zerg swarm with near vacant AI and instead a more dangerous set of ship groups with buffs that would stack and equal what players themselves have access to, Science Captain in PvE would be just as important as the Tac damage dealer and the Engi tank.
The final piece that gets conveniently overlooked time and time again was that it is too late to change. This game isn't in beta testing, it's Live. Captain careers add unique aspects to both ground and space, and unless on Day 1 career types were item-restricted, implementing it now is completely nonsensical, and why Cryptic knows better than to shoot themselves in the foot.
Someone in a buried thread asked 'what's photonic fleet got to do with Science'?' My answer is debuffing/controlling/SNB/draining/CC targets for others (photonic fleet), AoE shield resists (Scattering Field), support (keeping others alive). Whether photonic fleet works in practice or not (more likely not, because of the poor nature of pet AI) is still beside the point that in concept it makes sense since a Sci captain enables/disables based on groups and scenarios. A lot of carriers are science based (CMD Sci, with sci slots, some with SST) because science lends itself well to those roles for a ship's pets, and because embassy consoles can generate threat and presumably draw it away from pets and towards the carrier itself. Tac carriers draw aggro by damage alone, and take a more aggressive approach of who gets destroyed faster. Engineering carriers (back in the day it was the Dyson carrier) I guess would outlive anything and keep manufacturing more pets for sustainability, plus healing.
So what could we spitball that would make DO or an alternate ability universally appealing?
I'd throw out the idea of 'Scientific Initiative'. A copy of Tactical Initiative except working on science abilities, but then engineers would need a version too. Yes it works best when you have lots of science BOffs, but it's not dependent of the abilities of those BOff unlike Deflector Overcharge.
and then name the eng version of tac initiative Miracle Worker because
LAFORGE: Yeah, well I told the Captain I'd have this analysis done in an hour.
SCOTT: How long will it really take?
LAFORGE: An hour.
SCOTT: You didn't tell him how long it would really take, did you?
LAFORGE: Of course I did.
SCOTT: Oh, laddie, you've got a lot to learn if you want people to think of you as a miracle worker.
of course, then they'd need to rename the already-existing miracle worker something else
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
and then name the eng version of tac initiative Miracle Worker because
LAFORGE: Yeah, well I told the Captain I'd have this analysis done in an hour.
SCOTT: How long will it really take?
LAFORGE: An hour.
SCOTT: You didn't tell him how long it would really take, did you?
LAFORGE: Of course I did.
SCOTT: Oh, laddie, you've got a lot to learn if you want people to think of you as a miracle worker.
of course, then they'd need to rename the already-existing miracle worker something else
Well since it's about getting more shields and more heals ...
and then name the eng version of tac initiative Miracle Worker because
LAFORGE: Yeah, well I told the Captain I'd have this analysis done in an hour.
SCOTT: How long will it really take?
LAFORGE: An hour.
SCOTT: You didn't tell him how long it would really take, did you?
LAFORGE: Of course I did.
SCOTT: Oh, laddie, you've got a lot to learn if you want people to think of you as a miracle worker.
of course, then they'd need to rename the already-existing miracle worker something else
Comments
So what could we spitball that would make DO or an alternate ability universally appealing?
+x% exotic damage added to all damage output (a bit samey as APA, but it requires little imagination)
Insta cooldown all epic consoles. (my ship would subsequently become THE Swiss army knife of epic consoles. But seriously, this ability would be useless to new players. Forget I mentioned it)
Resurrect photonic copies of all defeated enemies to fight as allies for a brief time. (I'd kill to see this as a visual)
Tod - you become Tod, destroyer of worlds. Nothing can escape the purifying flames of Tod's immortal wrath. Lasts 5 seconds. (female captains become Phillipa)
I'd throw out the idea of 'Scientific Initiative'. A copy of Tactical Initiative except working on science abilities, but then engineers would need a version too. Yes it works best when you have lots of science BOffs, but it's not dependent of the abilities of those BOff unlike Deflector Overcharge.
Deflector overcharge in its current state is severely flawed and skewed towards exotic damage builds and heal boats which I don't find useful at all in PvE given the fact they also nerfed control and drain abilites. Subnuc is pretty powerful as it is now and it's being changed to a kind of annoyance that anyone can throw around in PvP which sucks.
The better option would be make Scattering Field a BOFF ability, like an AoE Polarize hull. It will encourage formation flying. Kind of like Lucio in Overwatch.
1 min CD, 15 sec duration.
Rank I at Lt. At 100 Aux = 50 DR
Rank II at Lt. Com = 60 DR
Rank III at Com = 70 DR
Subnuke is definatly useful in PvE. Like against the Voth Dreadnought in Borg Disconnected or basically any boss battle.
Subnuke requires careful watch over the enemy buff icons. Its more a a scalpel than a hammer like Deflector Overcharge. I dislike subnuke becoming a BOFF ability because it is being replaced by a watered down Attack Pattern Alpha.
If APA buffs were limited to weapons only, then we have one captain ability that buffs science, and one captain ability that buffs weapons, and that would be balanced.
Set bonuses, lockbox and lobi gear, C-Store purchases, all are meant to work together to make players more likely to buy more or packs. Narrowing captains to ship types after 7 years is 7 years too late.
APA only boosts the exotic damage side of Science ships, not their healing potential, or control and drain capabilities which are only truly maximized in such ships. Engineers will boost and overcap power levels including aux, and help with survival and healing which are still relevant on Sci ships.
Scattering field will receive an indirect boost, making it no longer trigger red alert, a feature that left me stranded out of battle so often that I hardly used it.
If going by Overwatch analogies, SF nor polarize hull are like Lucio's AoE since he heals or speed boosts or drops the beat which is temporary hit points. It is instead closer to a mobile Winston or Orisa shield that gives damage resistance against incoming energy damage to anyone inside it, but even that's stretching it since there is no central shield that absorbs all energy damage before crumbling.
Instead of DO, I would have liked SNB to have stayed put and instead received some rework when used against NPCs, or increase the PvE scenarios where SNB would have a proper impact, and that's in addition to the concerns mentioned earlier.
So just a heads up..Kemocite is not Exotic Radiation...So it doesn't benefit from the Exotic Damage boost from Deflector Overcharge.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
Deflector Overcharge, will be useful every cooldown,
Even if Deflector Overcharge ONLY had the buffs to heals, control resists, and drain resists. It would still be more useful than Subnucleonic Beam. For ANY SHIP you are flying.
Better heals and resists are ALWAYS good. You are always being shot at...
Deflector Overcharge as a defensive ability that stacks with Sci Fleet, and Scattering Field.
Giving you stacking bonuses to shield heals, shield hardness, and defensive bonuses vs energy.
I can honestly not see how anyone in their right mind would prefer Subnucleonic Beam over Deflector Overcharge.
But on the other hand, Subnucleonic Beam, not being the most useful ability in PvE, found it's uses being a captain ability. Subnuking Borg Queen when she had FBP up in HSE was always very helpful to do, so the tacs wouldn't hurt themselves. Now, after it being converted into a BOFF ability, there would be no logical reason why you should pick subnuke over the myriad of very useful sci abilities we already have, unless they are going to change the ways queues work or implement newer ones that actually require subnuke.
But it really feels like the subnuke was made into a boff ability to appease eng/tacs from all those 10 PvPers STO has left, so they wouldn't go "Waaaahh! Science OP! They subnuked my immunities!"
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
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Subnuke is used on Elite Queue bosses. Why not keep both DO and SNB then? Lets drop scattering field as a captain ability and instead. Lets propose changes to subnuke to better suit a variety of uses in PvE. I think once the other damage nerfs go through, enemies will be stronger and we wont be able to Spacebar through with pure DPS. We might have to actually think about strategies and use teamwork like every other game.
It has its uses for Elite Queue bosses and the like. For you, DO is better for your style of play. But for me and others, SNB is more useful. Better yet, lets petition to keep both abilities and drop Scattering Field.
For you and others, subnuke is more useful on the 6 or so maps that it's useful. For me AND hundreds of times more "others" on my side, DO will be more useful in the hundreds of maps in which we care about it being useful.
Also, like I've already said. We will have both. You can keep subnuke.
If science captains lose SNB to DO, I think that Tacs should lose global APA. A Tac toon can also boost science damage, while also boosting weapons all at the same time.
What is far more likely is that the Devs know their players, and since it would likely prove far too upsetting (given the reactions to even the mere suggestion that it should happen) to certain Captains running certain builds if ApA suddenly didn't buff their exotic stuff, they had to invent ApSci which in turn meant sacrificing a Sci Cap power because I guess it's easier/more balanced/whatever than adding an additional captain power to all classes. I get it, I don't agree, but I get why some wouldn't like it (<- changing ApA).
One very real issue when making yellow and blue more relevant by looking at, and 'improving' them from what I can only describe as a 'red' point of view is that red itself may someday become far less relevant - since, what else do they have that makes them relevant in the first place apart from ability to do damage? What do you then do to bring them back on a par? End up with the same situation that provoked this change and then do it all over and over again? - You can call it a straw man, and perhaps it is, but it is a potential future state of affairs worth considering if this balancing isn't handled with care.
Surely for gameplay and fun's sake it's better to make the other aspects of blue and yellow, case in point - SNB as just one example among many, more relevant rather than just make them more like red? Like for real, I'm not saying that all three shouldn't be able to kill stuff, just kinda asking why everything, always, has to boil down to the direct damage output capability of a single player? Even if we do away with Tac/Eng/Sci, and have just Cap'ns, all the same issues will still exist in the Red/Yellow/Blue of the stuff that all the things do.
IDK. All I'm saying is that if blue and yellow being relevant means doing similar damage to red, then red is largely irrelevant since blue and yellow will then inevitably be, and arguably already are, much more 3D (read 'useful' and 'fun' in all circumstances) than the often 1D red, the undisputed reign of whose one-dimentionality (is that even a word?) is, arguably, where, way back when in the long long ago, it started us all on this whole 'something needs to be done about X and Y when used with A' journey in the first place.
TL/DR: Balance is (or should be) about far, far more than just damage output capability disparity and the poly-usefulness metrics of certain abilities. For me SNB -> DO, while I'm sure it'll register 1000 times more on that metrics click counter in the Dev control room, is just giving blue a redder tint and doesn't adress any underlying problems the game may have. AI being one.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I think the magnitude of the damage buff is still a bit ridiculous... I'd be happier if the duration went back to 30 seconds but the magnitude dropped to about 30%
Tactical Fleet does too, though most don't complain cause this buffs every one in the group.
Go down fighting buffs all damage as well, though it is a situational ability.
Hell even Fire On My Mark buffs exotic damage, though indirectly through damage resist penalty instead of direct buff.
This is like giving the Warriors in the game the ability to buff their magic damage, alongside their weapon damage and NOT giving Wizards anything to buff their magic damage.
Every Tac captain ability that buffs damage, buffs exotic too. And that's what is messed up,
Science has precisely... One, captain ability that buffs exotic damage. That is sensor scan, which does it by way of damage resist penalty, which means it buffs everyone attacking those targets as well. Totally not complaining about Sensor Scan here, always been an amazing ability.
But as it stands Science has to slot Conservation of Energy as a trait to even come close to matching what a Tac can do out of the box. And still loses.
Deflector Overcharge goes a long way to changing this.
A Science Captain using Science abilities should be the BEST at them. PERIOD.
I could definitely agree with there being a difference between Exotic and Weapon buff magnitude. For me, it's not about nerfing this, or that, or pigeonholing anyone. The diversity of options is why I have such a love/hate relationship with this game. I just think Red, Blue and Yellow each ought to be able to do Red, Blue and Yellow the best respectively. Nothing amazingly drastic, just, Purple, Orange and Green ought to lose something from each of their primaries, still being just as useful, just in a different way, is all. Cookie cutter, the 'best' this, the 'must-have' that in a perfect world shouldn't be a thing. The further toward the edge of this colour wheel you go, the more you ought to actually need a mix from the other side of the spectrum - ie: another player. (Fancy that in a 5 player mission in a MMO...). Similarly, if you're bang in the middle, you ought not to be amazing at anything. Decent, compentent, but not amazing.
Like, it's not rocket science. The stuff we can do is basically a circle filled with the spectrum, and when you choose your class, ship, skill, traits and so on, you put a dot on that circle. Where you put that dot is entirely up to you - If you're red, and you put the dot in the reddest bit, you will (potentially) be the best red there can be, but you are as far away from yellow and blue as you can be, so you will (=should) mostly suck at those things. And when I say suck, like, you can vape a gateway, but staying alive should be bring support or go home level of suck. No-one expects a healer to do any real noticable damage, so glass cannons should be more of a thing than they currently are, but since they're not, you don't really see any healers, etc. The problem as I see it is that while the above is generally true, the circle uses quantum mechanics and creative accounting to make the red bit closer to the blue and the yellow than the blue and yellow are to the red. It's a skewed circle, basically.
If you are yellow or blue and you do the same, you'll still be very red and very good at being red, but you'll be better at staying alive, for example, or speed tanking with better engine power options (hence, as one example, the leech changes, perhaps?), but honestly, if you really really really want to be the best red you can possibly be, like, roll red? Same goes for blue and yellow. Which, going back to the quoted post, means it makes sense in the end for ApA to do something to buff exotics, since we'll assume that it's a 'purple' build with a redder tint for the damage. Presumably that's part of the decision making process when making a new character? I wanna be damage focused so I choose red? I mean in other MMOs, the choices are mostly pretty clear and so you don't (generally) get people who play, say, the heal class moaning about how they ought to be doing more damage. It's less clear cut in STO I'll admit, and that is a good thing, but the analogy fits I think.
I don't know. There are so many synergies in this game that something will always be missed by any balance pass, and good teams/players will always know or work out how to make use of them. Some will call them expoits or hax, but whatever they are, I would just like Infected and Crystalline, apart from having Elite versions again, to last longer again and require much more teamwork than they do now - runs with specific personal objectives aside (DPS Channel, for example), and for it to be more difficult to not die and vape stuff at the same time across the board generally, even in advanced queues. If this balance pass achieves that, I'll be happy. Gating the first character on an account from Adv and Elite queues until they've got to Tier 3, 4 or 5 (and then gating T4 or 5 characters from doing Normals?) on the rep for that run might be an idea to look at too and might even make any subsequent balance passes easier to do simply due to having to cater just that little bit less to newer/more casual players? - but that's way off topic and will derail this thread.
What red is pretty clear, sure there are some yellow and blue elements to some red stuff - ApD, Target SubSys and some others, but for the most part essentially it's make stuff go boom through direct buffs and escapy run away cheese. It seems to me that defining Blue and Yellow is a lot harder to do, and that gets more and more difficult the more you mix Red, Blue and Yellow with eachother, so I guess that's partly why we are where we are. Maybe it is more like rocket science after all?
TL/DR?: IDK. It's complicated. Good luck devs. Rather you than me is all I'll say.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Come on, Cryptic, let the us switch classes like we do specializations, so the poor wannabes can stop filling the forums with their jealousy.
Except I don't want to be a Tactical Captain, I want to be a Science Captain that's not completely inferior. I'm not jealous of Attack Pattern Alpha, I just fail to see why Tactical Captains who are supposed to excel at weapon damage, should have abilities that buff exotic damage, when Science Captains do not have them.
You want to play a science captain because you're stuck playing a science captain, not because you actually like the "completely inferior" science captain abilities.
Which is why it would be better for everyone if classes were switchable, or even better, replaced with a freeform selection of abilities like boff training manuals.
No, actually I enjoy my Science Captains, all three of them just fine. I enjoyed them when they were bottom of the barrel, I've been steadily enjoying the improvement they have been getting for a while. I'm not "Stuck" playing a Science captain, I have always loved my Science Characters, I pretty much only play them, and have only played them the whole time I have played this game, which has been since around the year 1 anniversary.
Noticing the illogical nature of some of the design choices does not equate to jealousy, or envy, or sour grapes. Sometimes it's just common sense.
If NPCs were less Zerg swarm with near vacant AI and instead a more dangerous set of ship groups with buffs that would stack and equal what players themselves have access to, Science Captain in PvE would be just as important as the Tac damage dealer and the Engi tank.
The final piece that gets conveniently overlooked time and time again was that it is too late to change. This game isn't in beta testing, it's Live. Captain careers add unique aspects to both ground and space, and unless on Day 1 career types were item-restricted, implementing it now is completely nonsensical, and why Cryptic knows better than to shoot themselves in the foot.
Someone in a buried thread asked 'what's photonic fleet got to do with Science'?' My answer is debuffing/controlling/SNB/draining/CC targets for others (photonic fleet), AoE shield resists (Scattering Field), support (keeping others alive). Whether photonic fleet works in practice or not (more likely not, because of the poor nature of pet AI) is still beside the point that in concept it makes sense since a Sci captain enables/disables based on groups and scenarios. A lot of carriers are science based (CMD Sci, with sci slots, some with SST) because science lends itself well to those roles for a ship's pets, and because embassy consoles can generate threat and presumably draw it away from pets and towards the carrier itself. Tac carriers draw aggro by damage alone, and take a more aggressive approach of who gets destroyed faster. Engineering carriers (back in the day it was the Dyson carrier) I guess would outlive anything and keep manufacturing more pets for sustainability, plus healing.
Exactly.
I'd rename it to "Scientific Method"
of course, then they'd need to rename the already-existing miracle worker something else
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Well since it's about getting more shields and more heals ...
"Giving Her All She's Got" could work.