Balancing consoles and limiting stacking will only be a negative to PVP players.
Pure Nonsense.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
The philosophy of any reasonably sane professional game designer is already on full display. There will be both nerfs and buffs. Cling to your old meta as much as you like, the playing field is changing. The toy's you're so attached to now will still likely be good, but they may no longer be BEST.
Nerfing stuff means that people would not be able to sell that stuff for as much as they are now. Make stuff stronger so that prices can be jacked up to sell to all the wannabe DPS Gods.
When I read certain comments in this Thread the lyrics for a Beatles song comes to mind:
'You say yes, I say no You say stop and I say go go go, oh no You say goodbye and I say hello Hello hello I don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello Hello hello I don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello
I say high, you say low You say why and I say I don't know, oh no..'
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The philosophy of any reasonably sane professional game designer is already on full display. There will be both nerfs and buffs. Cling to your old meta as much as you like, the playing field is changing. The toy's you're so attached to now will still likely be good, but they may no longer be BEST.
In other words: there's going to be some major nerfs, with the odd token buff here and there; and, overall, "Player investment retains value" will prove to be the biggest sham ever.
In other words: there's going to be some major nerfs, with the odd token buff here and there; and, overall, "Player investment retains value" will prove to be the biggest sham ever.
In other words: you didn't read the damn notes, did you?
Balancing consoles and limiting stacking will only be a negative to PVP players.
That depends on the build. I am certain their a non-stacking builds that PvPers at Ker'rat use to vape their opponents. I do believe that those players who rely solely on stacking consoles will feel the difference in damage output should it ever occur.
I have to respectfully disagree. SWG died with SWTOR. EA had it killed because they thought it would impact their game. It's no coincidence that SWG shutdown only a few days before SWTOR went live. My guess is maybe at first but have been eventually mutually beneficial. SWG managed to survive 2 of the most profound botches in the history of gaming, the CU and NGE and still lasted over 8 years and never went FtP. SWG was a sandbox MMO unlike anything now, therefor it was hard to those who need to be told what to do.
[/quote]
For some reason I can seeing Cryptic make consoles and selling them in the store.
I really don’t see that big of an issue with console stacking; embassy consoles probably being the biggest one.
So many universal consoles, the flag ship and 31 sets have begun to push out fleet tac consoles and quiet expensive crafting ones from current builds.
If they stop the stacking, we might see a DPS decrease only at first. Won’t take long before the next set of OP consoles has filled the empty slots and we are more powerful than ever.
At least at the moment power is easy to understand and cheap to get considering that we only talk about some stacked fleet consoles.
Wait till we all fill all 11 console slots with lock box, lobi and zen ship consoles.
No stacking of consoles might be something cryptic wants (perhaps some build experts too) but I really doubt that the casual scrubs in this game would want it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
The philosophy of any reasonably sane professional game designer is already on full display. There will be both nerfs and buffs. Cling to your old meta as much as you like, the playing field is changing. The toy's you're so attached to now will still likely be good, but they may no longer be BEST.
The commandment isnt "nerf some things and buff others" nikeix, it is "Never Nerf Anything."
Was it you from which the law came? Or did you only receive it?
That commandment, however, is hogwash. So they don't need to listen to it.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The philosophy of any reasonably sane professional game designer is already on full display. There will be both nerfs and buffs. Cling to your old meta as much as you like, the playing field is changing. The toy's you're so attached to now will still likely be good, but they may no longer be BEST.
In other words: there's going to be some major nerfs, with the odd token buff here and there; and, overall, "Player investment retains value" will prove to be the biggest sham ever.
Yes, prepare to have your characters ruined extremely hard, at least as hard, if not a thousand times worse, then the skill revamp did. You will never have fun playing this game again, it's absolutly guaranteed.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
No T5Us retaining their value was the biggest sham ever.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
No T5Us retaining their value was the biggest sham ever.
I quite enjoy the T5U Nicor and Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer. Fine ships, and my highest dps makers. Very fun ships to fly and play with different things. The only thing different betweent T5U and T6 is one less boff ability, really.
SCM - DPSMark (S) - [01:42] DMG(DPS) - @neppakyo: 11.02M(112.82K)
What they need to do is make c-store unlocks for extra console slots, up to 10 total of sci/tac/eng for your favorite ship.
Maybe 1k zen for each slot or something.
I kind of like this idea of being able to buy extra console slots, especially if you would like to improve your favorite ships that may not have the console layouts that you prefer. I think 10 console slots is excessive. I could see the possibility of maxing out 5 consoles slots for each career; it could even max out at 6 if the Devs decided to push it. Overall, 5 for each career seems much more doable.
No T5Us retaining their value was the biggest sham ever.
We were told that the T5Us would be competitive when compared to the T6s, but that the T6s would slightly more. I would have to say that this still holds true. You can still do well in PvE Elites with T5Us just as you would with T6s. Of course, you don't get the extra BOFF slot or the Uni/Intel/Command/Pilot/Temporal ability. As for most, if not all, PvEs, you really don't need the spec tree abilities to win. Even in PvP, you really don't need those extra abilities you have a good setup and are a good pilot.
That being said, I do agree that we were--initially--led to believe that T5U would be the end game version of the ships when the T5U tokens first came out, so I can see your point, Itminns, because we ended up getting the T6s, which in virtually made the T5 and T5U ships obsolete.
They could, however, implement some kind of diminishing returns on damage, for instance. That way, the top would stay the top, just not by such a wide margin.
I'm starting to agree with the above more and more.
Did a bunch of digging just to see how much stuff seems to have things that "stack". After doing so, the above is the best we could hope for. As I found it would be almost impossible to equip very many consoles even from completely different sets if they were grouped by type / sub type based on what they do.
I was actually amazed, even with what I had on some of my ships even though what I was using a given console for was not for it's stacking effect. It hit home a bit harder when I realized even though I was trying to use "full sets", namely from Mark rewards that many of them share some similar abilities out side of the set bonuses. As stated before I tend to play Romulan, well of course I have a Romulan faction set. I found other sets like Omega much less gold-universal or slot specific also had effects which stacked, even if it was only a minor boost.
The short and sweet of my diving into this further shows an entire revamp of consoles would have to be done. Not just a few "OP" ones as some might claim, but every one of them. Consoles on an individual basis would have to give a lot more bonuses then what they currently do to be viable, and any bonuses would still be a nerf even if they increased a given console unless the bonuses were so huge that it simply becomes not worth making the change due to how it would affect the overall curve. This doesn't affect just damage or defense but all aspects you can calculate.
The short: They wont be able to do as the OP suggested in a balanced way, it will break more then it fixes as there's just way too much overlap on consoles that overall have nothing in common. Would just DR fix anything, who knows. All I can say after digging due to this thread, I'd have to change my vote from yes to no, cause simply put the entire mechanics of the way consoles work would need to be changed, and I can't say if that would balance or improve anything. We'll see what they come up with.
I dunno about all this doom and gloom stuff about what might happen. Me? Guess I'll keep having fun while playing STO.
Like the Skills Revamp, I don't think this change will "ruin the game! OH NOES!" I'll adapt. Some of the pixelated items which I have leased from Cryptic in STO may no longer work in the way I have grown accustomed to. Others may work better.
As to 'retaining their value' Does anyone here really value their starter ship and its gear any more? Didn't think so.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
In theory I like the idea of identical consoles not stacking anymore. Not so sure about eliminating buffs of a certain type stacking though and for a whole host of reasons i.e., trying to decide exactly which console/piece of ship equipment to use would be analysis paralysis hell.
One of the biggest boons to eliminating stacking identical consoles would be in opening up the use of more Rep/reward consoles and their associated abilities, including set passives and actives. It seems to me this would allow for more variety in ship builds and ways to combat foes and overcome challenges. It would also reward player skill more, which in STO of all games, would be a very welcome thing.
There are definite down sides to be sure, including the loss of resources used to upgrade multiple consoles. While I personally don't mind it as it didn't cost me any real effort or money, I can see this really upsetting some. The petty side of me wants to call it a penalty for being lazy and not relying on skill to win but like I said, that's petty and ultimately not very fair. Perhaps rather than outright eliminating stacking identical consoles a severely steep diminishing returns penalty on identical consoles could be the way to go.
I'm sure there are scores of both up and downsides I'm not thinking of at the moment which is why I said I like the idea in theory. Ultimately though, there is such a huge disparity between the challenge the game presents and the level of power at the disposal of Captains (at least for space combat) that something like this idea deserves a good long look and careful consideration.
Comments
Pure Nonsense.
The philosophy of any reasonably sane professional game designer is already on full display. There will be both nerfs and buffs. Cling to your old meta as much as you like, the playing field is changing. The toy's you're so attached to now will still likely be good, but they may no longer be BEST.
Thy vile cult of self-gratification and false precepts shall be swept aside, by a hand know to all as "Reality".
Most players do not PVP, these balance changes will barely be noticed by most players.
Co-Leader of Serenity's Grasp
Limit all ships (Tier 1 to Tier 6) to having only 1 Engineering, 1 Science, and 1 Tactical console slot.
That should solve the stacking issue.
When I read certain comments in this Thread the lyrics for a Beatles song comes to mind:
'You say yes, I say no
You say stop and I say go go go, oh no
You say goodbye and I say hello
Hello hello
I don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello
Hello hello
I don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello
I say high, you say low
You say why and I say I don't know, oh no..'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
In other words: there's going to be some major nerfs, with the odd token buff here and there; and, overall, "Player investment retains value" will prove to be the biggest sham ever.
In other words: you didn't read the damn notes, did you?
That depends on the build. I am certain their a non-stacking builds that PvPers at Ker'rat use to vape their opponents. I do believe that those players who rely solely on stacking consoles will feel the difference in damage output should it ever occur.
I have to respectfully disagree. SWG died with SWTOR. EA had it killed because they thought it would impact their game. It's no coincidence that SWG shutdown only a few days before SWTOR went live. My guess is maybe at first but have been eventually mutually beneficial. SWG managed to survive 2 of the most profound botches in the history of gaming, the CU and NGE and still lasted over 8 years and never went FtP. SWG was a sandbox MMO unlike anything now, therefor it was hard to those who need to be told what to do.
[/quote]
For some reason I can seeing Cryptic make consoles and selling them in the store.
Off the beaten trail, SWG is back https://forums.stellabellum.net/index.php#c3.
So many universal consoles, the flag ship and 31 sets have begun to push out fleet tac consoles and quiet expensive crafting ones from current builds.
If they stop the stacking, we might see a DPS decrease only at first. Won’t take long before the next set of OP consoles has filled the empty slots and we are more powerful than ever.
At least at the moment power is easy to understand and cheap to get considering that we only talk about some stacked fleet consoles.
Wait till we all fill all 11 console slots with lock box, lobi and zen ship consoles.
No stacking of consoles might be something cryptic wants (perhaps some build experts too) but I really doubt that the casual scrubs in this game would want it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I quite enjoy the T5U Nicor and Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer. Fine ships, and my highest dps makers. Very fun ships to fly and play with different things. The only thing different betweent T5U and T6 is one less boff ability, really.
SCM - DPSMark (S) - [01:42] DMG(DPS) - @neppakyo: 11.02M(112.82K)
SCM - Infected [LR] (S) - [01:53] DMG(DPS) - @neppakyo: 16.15M(146.45K)
I kind of like this idea of being able to buy extra console slots, especially if you would like to improve your favorite ships that may not have the console layouts that you prefer. I think 10 console slots is excessive. I could see the possibility of maxing out 5 consoles slots for each career; it could even max out at 6 if the Devs decided to push it. Overall, 5 for each career seems much more doable.
We were told that the T5Us would be competitive when compared to the T6s, but that the T6s would slightly more. I would have to say that this still holds true. You can still do well in PvE Elites with T5Us just as you would with T6s. Of course, you don't get the extra BOFF slot or the Uni/Intel/Command/Pilot/Temporal ability. As for most, if not all, PvEs, you really don't need the spec tree abilities to win. Even in PvP, you really don't need those extra abilities you have a good setup and are a good pilot.
That being said, I do agree that we were--initially--led to believe that T5U would be the end game version of the ships when the T5U tokens first came out, so I can see your point, Itminns, because we ended up getting the T6s, which in virtually made the T5 and T5U ships obsolete.
I'm starting to agree with the above more and more.
Did a bunch of digging just to see how much stuff seems to have things that "stack". After doing so, the above is the best we could hope for. As I found it would be almost impossible to equip very many consoles even from completely different sets if they were grouped by type / sub type based on what they do.
I was actually amazed, even with what I had on some of my ships even though what I was using a given console for was not for it's stacking effect. It hit home a bit harder when I realized even though I was trying to use "full sets", namely from Mark rewards that many of them share some similar abilities out side of the set bonuses. As stated before I tend to play Romulan, well of course I have a Romulan faction set. I found other sets like Omega much less gold-universal or slot specific also had effects which stacked, even if it was only a minor boost.
The short and sweet of my diving into this further shows an entire revamp of consoles would have to be done. Not just a few "OP" ones as some might claim, but every one of them. Consoles on an individual basis would have to give a lot more bonuses then what they currently do to be viable, and any bonuses would still be a nerf even if they increased a given console unless the bonuses were so huge that it simply becomes not worth making the change due to how it would affect the overall curve. This doesn't affect just damage or defense but all aspects you can calculate.
The short: They wont be able to do as the OP suggested in a balanced way, it will break more then it fixes as there's just way too much overlap on consoles that overall have nothing in common. Would just DR fix anything, who knows. All I can say after digging due to this thread, I'd have to change my vote from yes to no, cause simply put the entire mechanics of the way consoles work would need to be changed, and I can't say if that would balance or improve anything. We'll see what they come up with.
I can almost smell the potential forum whining should such a glorious thing occur... oh let it be!
Off the beaten trail, SWG is back https://forums.stellabellum.net/index.php#c3.
[/quote]
Wow,
Good to know.
Like the Skills Revamp, I don't think this change will "ruin the game! OH NOES!" I'll adapt. Some of the pixelated items which I have leased from Cryptic in STO may no longer work in the way I have grown accustomed to. Others may work better.
As to 'retaining their value' Does anyone here really value their starter ship and its gear any more? Didn't think so.
One of the biggest boons to eliminating stacking identical consoles would be in opening up the use of more Rep/reward consoles and their associated abilities, including set passives and actives. It seems to me this would allow for more variety in ship builds and ways to combat foes and overcome challenges. It would also reward player skill more, which in STO of all games, would be a very welcome thing.
There are definite down sides to be sure, including the loss of resources used to upgrade multiple consoles. While I personally don't mind it as it didn't cost me any real effort or money, I can see this really upsetting some. The petty side of me wants to call it a penalty for being lazy and not relying on skill to win but like I said, that's petty and ultimately not very fair. Perhaps rather than outright eliminating stacking identical consoles a severely steep diminishing returns penalty on identical consoles could be the way to go.
I'm sure there are scores of both up and downsides I'm not thinking of at the moment which is why I said I like the idea in theory. Ultimately though, there is such a huge disparity between the challenge the game presents and the level of power at the disposal of Captains (at least for space combat) that something like this idea deserves a good long look and careful consideration.