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Are you willing to accept big nerfs on everything in favor of finally balancing STO gameplay?

comrademococomrademoco Member Posts: 1,694 Bug Hunter
With the incoming balance changes to STO, the community seems to be more divided than ever... And this got me thinking...

How many of us are willing to loose our current builds and upgrades to everything... Some of our time put onto STO... In order to make STO more balanced and more fun gameplay that is not focused on number crunching and is controlled by the DPSmeta that we currently have...

Are you willing to loose some of what you've put into STO in favour of a better STO?
6tviTDx.png

Are you willing to accept big nerfs on everything in favor of finally balancing STO gameplay? 209 votes

Yes
52%
nightkenjslatersaftermathsspikardcomrademococoldnapalmduaths1berginsshpoksduncanidaho11irm1963sophlogimogaraks31spencerb96mattjohnsonvafenixnightweavercalintane753mustrumridcully0dracounguisthestargaze 110 votes
Maybe
14%
ikonn#1068alexraptorrdaboholicjcswwcuchulainn74kodachikunopatrickngodetheaterclaudiusdktheanothernameevilmark444sisterictarran61sotsogmhuijiankelshandomarokkrellxclusiv11djf021xradris 30 votes
No
33%
kidflash112f8explorer#7814thetaninessbn655jodarkriderxxxhellspawnyxxxvengefuldjinncrypticarmsmanmeimeitoorepetitiveepicltminnsredvengecaptainpugwash1jcsteelearliekkosseaofsorrowstunebreakerdragnridrpeterconnorfirstgradii 69 votes
«134

Comments

  • mmps1mmps1 Member Posts: 381 Arc User
    No
    I don't care about balance in the slightest, nor do I think it's going to actually happen.
    "Mr talks down to the peasants."
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    The question is flawed. By asking "do you accept big nerfs" you already use a negatively associated term in this community, essentially asking "do you want everything to be TRIBBLE" which of course is most likely answered with "no". The kind of rebalancing this game needs cannot be grasped with terms like "nerf" and "buff", it'd be a fundamental change in the games' rules.

    So if you'd ask "would you accept rebuilding your characters following a (hypothetical) revising of the games' rules for a balanced gameplay" I would probably say "yes", however there is no saying what these changes would encompass and not two people could find a common ground on this anyway. Like this I can't answer the question.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • comrademococomrademoco Member Posts: 1,694 Bug Hunter
    Yes
    I mentioned on the TSC Discord that, at this point I really don't have anything to loose... Yeah I've spent money and 5 years of my time to improve myself, but if the big nerf bat promises to make my gameplay and improve quality of STO in overall, then I'm OK with loosing some and perhaps all of what I've put in... Don't get the wrong the devs won't ever make it to were what I've already put in becomes useless/obsolete/worthless... But I just want a better STO...

    Thats all it comes down to
    6tviTDx.png

  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    Maybe
    I can accept some of the more broken stuff getting nerfed, like my tactical captain powers and maybe even diminishing returns on ship consoles or even diminishing returns or caps on crit stacking.

    But having everything I worked for and spent time on totally devalued and nerfed into the ground? absolutely not!
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    Yes
    yes, nerf it all into the ground as long as we get a better balanced game I can cope with a little work to adjust my builds.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • comrademococomrademoco Member Posts: 1,694 Bug Hunter
    Yes
    @angrytarg it's a tough question, but overall, that's what it comes down to... We know things will get nerfed, regardless if we like it or not... But are we willing to accept that in favor of better gameplay?
    6tviTDx.png

  • lordsteve1lordsteve1 Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    Yes
    I'd say yes.
    Because if they can truly deliver a more balanced and fun game then what's there to loose?

    I'm gonna enjoy playing it more and the changes (even if i have to start all over) means that's another challenge to explore; how to get my build back into shape under new circumstances.
    That means more experimentation, learning new tricks and tactics, relearning things i forgot. It could revitalize the game by cutting away the "dead" meta that's taken over and dragged the game into nothing but a number chasing spamfest.
    SulMatuul.png
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    No
    My gameplay is not and never has been "focused on number crunching" or "controlled by the DPSmeta" and I am most certainly not willing to lose anything at all just because some whiners are jealous of some other players who actually like that kind of gameplay.
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    Yes
    I say 'yes' but there is one important condition: they shouldn't sell more power creep.

    I'd like to see them try to fix the lack of balance now - and then keep the game balanced. Things should never have gotten so out of hand in the first place, and they definitely shouldn't sell the very thing they now (rightfully so though) treat as a problem.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    @angrytarg it's a tough question, but overall, that's what it comes down to... We know things will get nerfed, regardless if we like it or not... But are we willing to accept that in favor of better gameplay?

    That's again phrased in a difficult manner. If the nerfs come anyway there is nothing you can do about it as "not accepting" it would essentially mean to simply quit playing pig-2.gif

    In my opinion, as I outlined above, I am willing to rebuild my characters and revise everything in a new ruleset. If it's simply "nerfs" we talk about that means that nothing fundamental changes and only figures get modified (+10% damage instead of +30% on ability X for example). This doesn't rebalance the game nor does it "fix" anything when the baseline ruleset doesn't really work. In this case I'd answer with "no" since I don't think it's constructive. But I'm not opposed to "sacrifice" everything for a new ruleset, which could just as well be "yes" so, eh pig-32.gif​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    Maybe
    angrytarg wrote: »
    The question is flawed. By asking "do you accept big nerfs" you already use a negatively associated term in this community, essentially asking "do you want everything to be ****" which of course is most likely answered with "no". The kind of rebalancing this game needs cannot be grasped with terms like "nerf" and "buff", it'd be a fundamental change in the games' rules.

    So if you'd ask "would you accept rebuilding your characters following a (hypothetical) revising of the games' rules for a balanced gameplay" I would probably say "yes", however there is no saying what these changes would encompass and not two people could find a common ground on this anyway. Like this I can't answer the question.​​

    ^this


    seems to be some weird mentality that associates the concept of balance with 'NERF EVERYTHING!' goin round here like a contagious disease


    ps
    no I don't think cryptic will balance jack
  • tribbulatertribbulater Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Yes
    Sure, if that was the case.

    Unfortunately it generally works out to be "lots of nerfs and changes, leading to a different state of unbalance, annoying almost everyone and pleasing a few who didn't use the stuff that was nerfed anyway".

    (But I will be quite happy if that doesn't prove to be the case, of course.)
  • starcruiser#3423 starcruiser Member Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    Yes
    With the incoming balance changes to STO, the community seems to be more divided than ever... And this got me thinking...

    How many of us are willing to loose our current builds and upgrades to everything... Some of our time put onto STO... In order to make STO more balanced and more fun gameplay that is not focused on number crunching and is controlled by the DPSmeta that we currently have...

    Are you willing to loose some of what you've put into STO in favour of a better STO?

    HECK YES....too many snowflakes in this MMO with deep pockets who dont use their heads as intended but just acquired the I WIN button and PEW PEW PEW like walking dead automatons :)
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,824 Arc User
    No
    angrytarg wrote: »
    The question is flawed. By asking "do you accept big nerfs" you already use a negatively associated term in this community, essentially asking "do you want everything to be ****" which of course is most likely answered with "no". The kind of rebalancing this game needs cannot be grasped with terms like "nerf" and "buff", it'd be a fundamental change in the games' rules.

    So if you'd ask "would you accept rebuilding your characters following a (hypothetical) revising of the games' rules for a balanced gameplay" I would probably say "yes", however there is no saying what these changes would encompass and not two people could find a common ground on this anyway. Like this I can't answer the question.​​

    Basically this. Balance is not nerfs, balance is sometimes nerfs sometimes buffs.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • carcosa#4225 carcosa Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    No
    Balance gameplay that might need a few moderate nerfs yes. Major nerfs on most stuff NO!
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    No
    risian4 wrote: »
    I say 'yes' but there is one important condition: they shouldn't sell more power creep.

    I'd like to see them try to fix the lack of balance now - and then keep the game balanced. Things should never have gotten so out of hand in the first place, and they definitely shouldn't sell the very thing they now (rightfully so though) treat as a problem.
    Fat chance, lol. If they "treat power creep as a problem" it's only because they don't want people to stop buying more.

    And since they're clearly not interested in adding any content hard enough to need more power, they have to nerf the old so they have room to sell the new.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    No
    Of cause not... Eventually we will be in the same situation again, because of the never ending loop of the Lock-boxes...

    In order to sell, they need to be stronger, better than the last one, so what ever is in, will need to be more powerful than the last... So in a few years, we are back to square one.

    As long as Cryptic does not set up a series of hard and soft counters to given scenarios, and stick with them, this will be nonsense...

    We've seen it before, and we will see it again.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,659 Arc User
    Yes
    Sure, why not? :)
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • xaranimrynxaranimryn Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    No
    angrytarg wrote: »
    The question is flawed. By asking "do you accept big nerfs" you already use a negatively associated term in this community, essentially asking "do you want everything to be ****" which of course is most likely answered with "no". The kind of rebalancing this game needs cannot be grasped with terms like "nerf" and "buff", it'd be a fundamental change in the games' rules.

    So if you'd ask "would you accept rebuilding your characters following a (hypothetical) revising of the games' rules for a balanced gameplay" I would probably say "yes", however there is no saying what these changes would encompass and not two people could find a common ground on this anyway. Like this I can't answer the question.​​

    I disagree. In the current meta DPS is the most important thing and people have invested huge amounts of time and resources into obtaining and upgrading ships and equipment to maximise it.

    If "balancing" the game results in those ships and items becoming less effective at completing content then it is most definitely a nerf, and those people who have invested months of time and huge amounts of resources into obtaining them will have right to feel aggrieved.

    I wonder if cryptic will refund zen and dilithium for ships and items that no longer perform as they did when purchased / upgraded? I doubt it, but if you bought a v8 car and when it went in for its first service they took out the v8 and put in a 4 cylinder engine I think anyone would be pissed off.
  • jorantomalakjorantomalak Member Posts: 7,133 Arc User
    Yes
    I can always readjust a build or make a new one hell it might be fun to make a new build from scratch, but the game needs alot of balancing esp tactical they are way overpowered and can do everything better then the other professions.
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,114 Arc User
    Yes
    My answer is purely theoretical, since this "balance" isn't going to happen anyway, and with that it would change. But under the assumption it could be done by nerfing and buffing stuff, I'd be all for it.

    Now if we only could get two different players to agree what "balance" is... (hint: it is what *I* think it should be ;) )
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • tempus64tempus64 Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    No
    I had to answer no because the question is poorly written and the entire premise is far too broad. However, I am in favor of them balancing things through "nerfs" and other means to bring things back under control, perhaps back to where things were a year or so ago.
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    In what universe does nerfing Mines lead to better balance?

    Because that's what "nerf everying" says and it so OBVIOUSLY unrelated to what's actually going to happen, why even discuss it?
  • aeieaeie Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    Yes
    xaranimryn wrote: »
    I disagree. In the current meta DPS is the most important thing and people have invested huge amounts of time and resources into obtaining and upgrading ships and equipment to maximise it.

    If "balancing" the game results in those ships and items becoming less effective at completing content then it is most definitely a nerf, and those people who have invested months of time and huge amounts of resources into obtaining them will have right to feel aggrieved.

    I wonder if cryptic will refund zen and dilithium for ships and items that no longer perform as they did when purchased / upgraded? I doubt it, but if you bought a v8 car and when it went in for its first service they took out the v8 and put in a 4 cylinder engine I think anyone would be pissed off.

    First line: You really expect an MMO to remain static and that after all that time/work nothing is going to change? This would be the first MMO in history to do that then, cause none do this. Why would you expect STO not to update things?

    Second line: Again, see line one. Change is expected. You can't expect to spend all that time and think once you finally reach the top, that this is gonna stay at the top forever, that simply doesn't happen in an MMO. At least not if they want to stay around for more than a few years.

    Third: No game company has ever refunded due to changes, and its actually ridiculous to think it should even be brought up. MMO's change, they get patched and updated. Sometime for good, sometimes for ill, but take it to the bank change of some sort is going to happen as time passes, this is a CONSTANT in the MMO genre, the game dies if it doesn't.

  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    Maybe
    The problem is Cryptic worked themselves into a corner here when they tied "real money" to upgrading in-game equipment. This makes any heavy devaluing of upgraded equipment "unacceptable".
    "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
  • discojerdiscojer Member Posts: 533 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Yes
    I dunno. Lots of F2P games have money for equipment schemes and most of them raise the level cap periodically making the previous equipment you spent money on worthless compared to the next level's batch of equipment

    And beyond that, there is a precedent here with T5 ships being supplanted by T6 ships. T5U ships might still be good, but T6 ones are simply better.
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,412 Arc User
    Yes
    Yes, but it wouldn't exactly be a nerf and we wouldn't lose anything since the ratios between powers, items, combinations etc. would stay the same except on a more compressed scale that's easier to balance and gives everyone on the team a role that goes beyond just DPS. NPCs and perhaps even missions would also have to be adjusted.
    Y945Yzx.jpg
    Devs: Provide the option to Turn OFF full screen flashes from enemy ship explosions
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