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Cryptic to focus on pvp?
tremere12
Member Posts: 477 Arc User
https://i.redd.it/hp9kr4elma9y.png
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So I saw this picture on reddit, and I was wondering why even bother to bring out new pvp content if it's beyond broken? It was never in a great state to begin with, but it was at least do-able before "the greatest expansion ever". Back then there were way less (over-the-top) abilities, immunities/penetrations, p2w toys, 1-shot kill mechanics and monster-grinding to name a few. In the old days the game was better held together strategically in its minimal, yet functional state before it went overboard with the "moar dp$" hysteria and the constant release of new, but poorly tested and broken abilities. The game right now feels even less like science fiction and more like some anime-based Final Fantasy fest with a blinding haze of 'magical' effects in combat that only an impressionable console kid would appreciate. (And while at it i'll say NO I'm not looking forward to ANOTHER reputation tab in Season 12 - It's time to stop!)
So the final result today is that only a handful of (toxic) players actually play pvp (10-30 people or so I think), while the rest of the thousands of players don't whatsoever (and I don't blame em). After taking a 6 month break, I came back only to see the same few people every single time in the queues and Ker'rat... and that made me think that the general suggestion around here to just remove pvp from the game alltogether may not be so bad actually. Because quite frankly, I don't think Cryptic has any idea how much work it takes to undo the damage they've done to the game by truly fixing pvp.
Merely releasing a new map might bring in a few more players, but it won't be long before the old toxic playerbase, whales and trolls will immediately drive off any potential new comer. Still... if Cryptic is actually serious about bringing pvp back, then heck, I won't stop them, but I'm just saying they have a TON of work to do to balance things out.
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So I saw this picture on reddit, and I was wondering why even bother to bring out new pvp content if it's beyond broken? It was never in a great state to begin with, but it was at least do-able before "the greatest expansion ever". Back then there were way less (over-the-top) abilities, immunities/penetrations, p2w toys, 1-shot kill mechanics and monster-grinding to name a few. In the old days the game was better held together strategically in its minimal, yet functional state before it went overboard with the "moar dp$" hysteria and the constant release of new, but poorly tested and broken abilities. The game right now feels even less like science fiction and more like some anime-based Final Fantasy fest with a blinding haze of 'magical' effects in combat that only an impressionable console kid would appreciate. (And while at it i'll say NO I'm not looking forward to ANOTHER reputation tab in Season 12 - It's time to stop!)
So the final result today is that only a handful of (toxic) players actually play pvp (10-30 people or so I think), while the rest of the thousands of players don't whatsoever (and I don't blame em). After taking a 6 month break, I came back only to see the same few people every single time in the queues and Ker'rat... and that made me think that the general suggestion around here to just remove pvp from the game alltogether may not be so bad actually. Because quite frankly, I don't think Cryptic has any idea how much work it takes to undo the damage they've done to the game by truly fixing pvp.
Merely releasing a new map might bring in a few more players, but it won't be long before the old toxic playerbase, whales and trolls will immediately drive off any potential new comer. Still... if Cryptic is actually serious about bringing pvp back, then heck, I won't stop them, but I'm just saying they have a TON of work to do to balance things out.
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- define a fixed set of abilities as well as space and starship traits for PvP (and lock out most immunity and immortality traits)
- create specialized space and ground sets
- massively reduce graphic effects in order to improve FPS
- create a system that teams up players of somewhat equal expericence and capability
- introduce rewards for playing PvP matches
Personally I would very much welcome more Kerrat style PvP zones. That's the only type of PvP I enjoy from time to time. But even though they claim to focus on PvP in the near future, I believe it when I see it. It wouldn't be the first time such intentions vanish into thin air.
People don't play PvP anymore because it's not worth the time.
I dont think it needs to be detach just like you stated it needs restrictions applied to players when they enter PVP
- Disable Specialization tree's and lockout most traits and abilties other than a select few which have been PVP approved (less is more in PVP!) (things like feedback pulse need to be disabled)
- massively reduce graphic effects in order to improve FPS (Just disable all buff and over the top effects keep beams and sheilds etc)
- Level matching system will work fine if the first on this list is done
- introduce rewards for playing PvP matches
So yeah its not that hard to fix PVP when you think about it just disable all the over top stuff and reduce graphical effects, its giving people a reason to play pvp that will take work things like ranking tables, tournament systems for rewards and different game modes is what most people that PVP will expect.
Yes this is mainly for console players but the console market is a big one and lots of money to make if they can draw in the crowd and lets face it thats what console players expect in a game and PVP done right would be dam fun.
I tend to agree. The main focus of most mmopg player is to progress and to advance ones characters. For that one needs rewards.
PvP is a waste of time in that regard. Problem with PvP rewards often is that they are easy exploitable. Back at the day players were able to generate absurd amounts of Dil in fake PvP matches.
One solution would be to turn PvP into an activity that actually matters:
Two or more competitors insert a sum of Dil/EC or whatever out of thier own possession. Then they fight and the winner gets it all. The looser loses what he inserted and the winner simply gets it. No additional currency generated out of the system. No bull.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Thanks for reminding why I stopped PvP a few years back.
“(over-the-top) abilities, immunities/penetrations & 1-shot kill mechanics” are indeed a problem of the game that hinders PvP but nothing a solid set of core rules of a dedicated PvP community could not separate out.
But so called stuff like “p2w toys” and especially “monster-grinding” in STO were and still are nothing more than an expression of laziness of fellow PvPers when they learn that some players simply do their homework while others do not.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
The problem is it will be abused with PVP in its current state for example on the PS4 there is a PVP Fleet that will remain nameless that like to smack talk and generally put people off playing PVP what they do is spam zone chat get people to join the PVP session where they have a a full team all running feedback pulse and they just sit there pop all they pet call ins and deplorable abilities which grinds the server to a halt and let people basically kill themselves with feedback pulse lol they then smack talk in zone chat about how good they are.... PVP is now almost dead on the PS4 thanks to these guys lol
But my point is as you can see from my story above the system will be abused and it will not be due to exploits or anything it will just be because PVP is just broken...
I was only commenting on the rewards aspect, but you're absolutely right that PvP mechanics are completely broken. As for the PS4 thing I don't know anything about that, PC only here.
Yeah I moved over to the PS4 the current state of PVP is it was very active at first and people that are new to the game their goal seems to be get to end game do PVP but when they get their they find out how bad it is and get griefed and then loose interest and either stay to work on their character with the hopes it will get balanced... yeah I laugh a lot when I see people saying in chat they its a new game it will get fixed...... But most people tend to leave as they have blown through the content and get bored with running STF's.
People think that shields are useless in PvE because they're almost insta drained. Try dying with your shields up, that's even worse.
You will never be able to stop this. There's always these groups whose only desire in life is to 'pwn noob.' It's hard for me to understand the interest. Perhaps compensation. But that is foreign to me as well.
I would not like to see them waste any time with pvp here. If they want to work on it for console only that's fine. That's where the interest for it lies anyway.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The game balance is off. Fixing that is difficult, especially if Cryptic's power creep business model is to be preserved, and might not be worth the effort.
As long as there are players happily (or grumpily, but still actively) playing PvP, there is no big pressure to remove it. No one can accidentally stumble into it and be totally lost, and the few maps there are also probably cost almost no disk space.
A new map doesn't really mean PvP focus yet, but it's certainly considerably more attention than PvP ever had in 4-5 years.
Yep which is why implementing some sort of restrictions on the powers and traits etc that can be used when in a PVP zone is the simplest way to balance PVP without effecting their power creep model.
I don't mind the idea of having pvp-reputations in the game, though I would not want to see gear specific made for pvp itself. One reason is that that kind of gear can be more of a deterrent to players feeling they are competitive in pvp until getting that gear. Now having a pvp-oriented set of specializations could work to help balance things out. That would be something that a player could grind out, but would not make a specific set of gear kinda worthless if you are not in that content, merely making it that you might gain more spec exp for using in a pvp-specialization could be worth it. Also you could have the pvp-rep give traits that are more pvp oriented anyways to help that out.
Using a system that has each pvp battle-zone has two or three sub-factions/reputation groups that you can ally with would not be a bad idea, as than you would not have the issue of faction (Ie fed/romulan/Kdf) imbalance to cause extremely long ques. So long as the system allowed you to join with any of the available factions/reputations of that pvp map, and that the system would lock-out access to a faction/reputation group that was too populated it would allow you to have more balanced matches.
Definitely we would need a rebalance, and rework of a lot of the abilities in the game, though this is true in both a pve an pvp context. Personally as a player it would be nice to have them create method of having a dual-stat system for pve an pvp content, so than you would only change the pvp or pve stat value of an ability to balance it in that area of content. Though this is unlikely unless it is truly worth the time, resources, and effort to implement into the game; which I do not think it is right now from a dev's stand point.
Gotta throw them a bone every now and then after all.
WoW used to have a similar mechanic in that PvP gear had a special stat on it that reduced the chances of being critically hit by other players, and PvPing without a significant amount of it was usually suicide
Most other popular MMO's I'm playing right now have an OK PVP system/population, with ups and downs, but in comparison to the STO pvp, it's a vast ocean versus a dried out desert.
I don't care about that - I care about facts. The woefully lacking population in PVP nowadays is very real, and part of that is to be blamed for broken balance mechanics, and part to the trolls that scare off new players with their 1-shot wonder builds. I'm not a new player, I can hold my own in a fight, but I simply know where the problems are coming from.
Maybe, maybe not.
When I was Cyrodiil last night in ESO with my team, wearing entirely custom PVE gear, and having a succesful blast in a largely populated PVP zone... I wondered... gee why is this game is so succesful and well populated?
No, the point is that in pre-delta rising the pvp community was quite alive, but something went wrong when Cryptic's power creep policy went fast forward without adjusting it to pvp, and everyone knows that.
But that does affect the power creep model. Suddenly, people interested in PvP don't need to jump on the newest power creep, buy the newest stuff, get Dilithium and XP and what not. And a better balanced PvP means more people being interested in it - people that might pay less than they used to.
There must be some monetization for PvP, and even if it's just that it doesn't cannibalize the rest of the game.
I simply don't agree. I was there during the pre-delta days. There were many more players on, and yes there was some whining, but the fact remains there was a thing called population, and the fights were more fun overal too.
It's a shame that rushing to end game is such a common mindset in MMO play, because the PvP in STO was always more enjoyable at the lower tiers; where maneuvering, core powers, and team work won the day over absurd gear and ship load outs.
It would also be great to see a PvP game type that allowed for a mix of tiers on a team, to replicate what a fleet battles are like in the fiction. Different tiered players would have different task assignments, but their play would overlap on the battlefield.
At this stage it would be very difficult to strip players of what they've already earned, but a PvP campaign addition (either a new story line, or a 'war stories' campaign from the height of the Fed/Klingon conflict) with fresh characters rising through the ranks (with new restrictions) could work.
-snix